Is your choice to believe determined by God or you?

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• Thanks for the clear air here!

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  by twonetis on July 29th, 2009

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• Prima!

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  by Who Is She on August 5th, 2009

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• I'm with you bro

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  by FreshApples on August 4th, 2009

• It seems like your definition of calvinist and aminian are the same - we love God because He first loved us. We choose God because he draws us to Him. The bible is full of verses about the elect, so I am positive that there are elect people predestined to be Christians before world was even formed; what I'm unsure of is if there are also other people, not predestined, who choose to become Christians too.

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  by anonymous on August 4th, 2009

• Hi gardengirl, I can see how you could interpret the reply that way, so let me get into specifics. Arminians (A) and Calvinists (C) both believe that God does the drawing. There are, however, two distinctions. Scope and resistability. A's believe that God draws everyone, C's believe that God draws only a few. A's believe that God's drawing is resistible, one can accept it or reject it. C's believe that God's drawing is effectual - it makes the outcome certain.
  
  Regarding election, A's believe in election. However, we have a different scriptural understanding of it than C's do. We see election as corporate, Christ centered, and based on foreknowledge. Election is corporate - the Father elects the group of those who believe in Christ. Election is Christ centered - the Father saves us in Christ and through Him. Election is based on foreknowledge. God is timeless and sees the future exhaustively. He elects those who will believe.
  
  God bless,
  Kevin

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  by Pizza Man on August 4th, 2009

• Hi Kevin, thank you. I understand what you are saying. I know the verses in the bible that speak of election and I guess I fall into the Calvinist group but I am open to learning and humble enough to know that there might be more to it than what I understand....please share with me the bible verses/passages that speak of the elect resisting or turning from the truth permanently when it draws them? Can that really happen beyond a 'sin for a season' type of resistance that ultimately leads to a repentance and returning, Prodigal Son-ish?

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  by anonymous on August 4th, 2009

• What I mean, is does He elect those who will believe or do those who will believe, believe because they were elected beforehand? Can't there be both?

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  by anonymous on August 4th, 2009

• Hi Gardengirl, Regarding scriptures, here are a few that Arminians frequently refer to. John 12:32, Titus 2:11, Matt. 23:37, John 5:39-40, Acts 7:51, Heb 4:2, Heb 10:29, 2 Peter 3:9.
  From the A view, one can't be elect unless he believes. And believing is a choice that is made possible (but not certain) by the drawing of God. Since God knows the future exhaustively, he knows who will believe, and he elects them on their foreseen faith in Christ. Thus from God's view, their salvation is certain, however their believing was a choice. The impetus for all of this in the Arminian view is the loving character of God. We believe that God loves everyone and wants everyone to be saved. God bless, Kevin

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  by Pizza Man on August 4th, 2009

• Thanks Kevin, that makes sense to me. Arminian or Calvinist, just a slight doctrinal difference but overall the same beliefs and both are saved and understand the truth that the Holy Spirit draws someone toward Christ. My oldest son is named Kevin, btw, lol, nice name! It means 'peace maker.'

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  by anonymous on August 5th, 2009

• http://www.gotquestions.org/predestination-foreknowledge.html
  Can you read that article and tell me what you think of it? I don't really think we need to choose sides, A vs C, as it seems most people believe some of both, and our eyes should be on God and not on man (John Calvin or Jacobus Arminius) anyway. Sometimes things can be a little confusing but I just think it is the devils way of confusing Christians and causing them to squabble over inconsequential things that we will never fully understand as they are beyond the scope of human understanding.

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  by anonymous on August 5th, 2009

• Hi Gardengirl, That's cool, Kevin is a good name. :) You are right, our doctrinal differences are minor. We both affirm the Trinity, divinity of Jesus, virgin birth, atonement, resurrection, etc. However, there are cases where we will come down on one side or the other. An example: Did Jesus die for the sins of the world? Either he did, or he did not. One issues like these there is real disagreement, and that's ok. The article you linked is well written from the C view. Of course A's interpret these verses differently (Romans 9, Ephesians 1, and John 10, in particular).

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  by Pizza Man on August 5th, 2009

• Here's the short version of the Arminian understanding of these chapters. Romans 9 is about God's dealings with the nation and people of Israel, not individual election. Paul is answering the question "Why aren't most of the Jewish people following Jesus?" This was a pressing question in his time. Romans 9,10, and 11 are one thought. Ephesians 1 - we are chosen "in Christ". Notice how many times that "in Christ" or "in Him" occur in that chapter. Those who believe are those who are "in Christ". Thus, believing in Jesus is the grounds for being chosen in Him. John 6,10 - it is important to read these verses with awareness of their historical context. The sheep are God fearing Jews. Prior to the arrival of Jesus, there were some Jews already following the Father. The Father gave all of these people to the Son, and that's whom Jesus refers to here. Jesus is telling the Pharisees that they don't believe him because they weren't following God in the first place. God bless, Kevin

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  by Pizza Man on August 5th, 2009

• Thank you...I like to hear different perspectives on things I have been taught & believe (when they come from a brother in Christ). I will definitely say that I don't think I am positively C or A in my belief, it is something that is just a little beyond my scope of understanding at this point.

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  by anonymous on August 5th, 2009

• ....what I worry about is that when Christians let minor differences in opinion on theological issues divide them, it hurts the Church. Jesus rebuked his disciples for scolding someone who was doing good work in the name of Jesus, saying that those who are for him are not against him. He didn't condone sectarianism. A house divided cannot stand...the devil uses that to hurt us. We need to stand together and not let issues such as which theological interpretation of the verses pertaining to election and predestination are A or C, causing strife among fellow believers.

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  by anonymous on August 5th, 2009

• I agree with you on that! God bless, Kevin

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  by Pizza Man on August 5th, 2009

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• I believe God created us with a free will to decide for ourselves. Thus it is a personal choice made by the person. Of course, that is just my opinion.

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  by guitarman18 on July 31st, 2009

• Cool, thanks.

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  by twonetis on July 31st, 2009

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• continuation of a comment thread in a question of yours that was removed;
  "hey listen, I think u dislike my Q, and the cause of 2 faces, one coz u r unbeliever in God, 2ndly my english is bad, so Iam sorry Iam not shakespeare"
  using one letter words such as "u", using numbers instead of words, shortening words etc constitutes as text talk and it is really annoying to those people who know how to write properly.

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  by QueenR eats the Terminator for breakfast on July 30th, 2009

• thank u

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  by iraq on August 10th, 2009

• Did you even read what I just said? Use proper English please!

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  by QueenR eats the Terminator for breakfast on August 10th, 2009

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