It's not just that -- when you drive a new car of the lot, it immediately looses $1000s in value -- I'd stick with used cars -- there are many that come off lease that are in very good condition -- and just look at the classifieds, or kelley blue book -- you can easily deterimine what a used car is worth.

I like the idea of haggling and dislike "no haggle prices" because the dealerships seem to think there's no room for negotiation. Sure, they charge less than the sticker price (MSRP), but they still charge loads more than the invoice. Even if you pay invoice, the dealer still makes money due to holdback and other factors. Dealers make more money from the financing, but if I don't go through them (either by paying cash or taking a loan through my credit union) they'd be less likely to offer me a decent price. I prefer to stick with used vehicles, but I wouldn't mind buying a Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris if I could get a good price. By calling around, not even doing heavy negotiating, you can save thousands! (We've done this for the last 2 new vehicles we've purchased. We drove the older one to nearly 300,000 miles, though, so we got our money's worth.) I'm just disappointed that it isn't deemed socially acceptable to try to negotiate a lower price on certain big-ticket items. I found my DSLR for a few hundred dollars less online. I would have been willing to purchase it locally if the store were willing to match the price. "Our price is non-negotiable" usually means that I'm walking out. Speaking of walking out, that's the best tactic to use if you have the time. Don't let the dealer have your keys if you're wanting to do a trade-in. They can conveniently "misplace" them so you can't drive off. If you open the door and start to leave, they will generally be more willing to give you a better deal (because they see the dollar sign above your head leaving with you).