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by Candygirl on October 31st, 2008
Usually after love,sex, marriage comes a baby so my only argument would be children involved. Adults can do whatever they want to, I don't agree with it but I don't care either. When a gay couple wants a family that is what I disagree with. I realize gay couples can be great parents that can love and provide for a child but it totally confuses that child, the child will never understand why they have two dads or two moms when the other kids have a mom and a dad. They will think they are suppose to be with the same sex also. Or worse they may grow up and hate the life that they had and their parents. I do not think it is a healthy enviroment for children period.
by HasntBeen on October 31st, 2008
Gays have been abused and marginalized for a long time in our society. This abuse and marginalization is often justified with religious arguments, and much heroic and flowery language has been evolved to remove the stink of bigotry and make this behavior sound noble, i.e. "defend traditional marriage, the foundation of all that is good in society, etc."
Well I'm a simple-minded individual. When I see a majority trying to deprive a minority of their fair chance at happiness and freedom, I smell a rat. Maybe more than one.
by MrJosh on October 31st, 2008
I don't see why it is an issue. you should be allowed to marry whoever it is that you love.
by Nasiswand on October 31st, 2008
My argument is based on common sense, you have been warned.
If marriage is nothing but a Christian thing, then Christians would not allow people of other faith's to marry. They also would not find it necessary to go and pay the government for the right to be 'legally' married via licenses. Being married by a priest/minister in a church would be enough. Because they do pay for licenses and have their marriage acknowledged by the government as well as their church, they themselves prove that it is at the very least half a government issue.
Now, does the government have the right to dictate personal affairs between two consenting adults? No, they don't. They aren't willing to let this one go, but they have no right to it. They don't like losing any sort of power they feel they have.
My 2 cents.
by The Decider on May 13th, 2009
i am for it Equal rights for all citizens .
The majority of arguments against same-sex marriage are either religious in nature, or based in tradition rather than the actual effects of allowing same-sex marriage. The idea of a traditional definition is flawed, as the traditional definition hold that women are men's property. Marriage predates the bible, and as a legal contract, no religion holds a monopoly on it.
The definition of marriage has changed numerous times throughout history- in the USA, it has changed from "a man and his chattel" to "a white man and a white woman," then to "a man and woman of the same race," and finally to it's current legal definition- the last change was about 41 years ago.
Source(s):
by maS elcnU on October 31st, 2008
What about if I care less about somebody else life in general?
I got a Toyota truck, you have a Chevy truck. Do I care about the brand of your truck? NO
My 2 cents.
by Smart2 is back! Did you miss me? on October 31st, 2008
I'm for it. My argument? People find love where they find it. I'd sooner a loved one be loved by a member of their own sex than abused at the hands of a member of the opposite sex.
Besides I want the effing government OUT of peep's bedrooms.
by MissFerly on October 31st, 2008
I'm for it. I say if its not YOU who is getting married then it's none of your business who gets married.
by MissLiss on October 31st, 2008
marriage is a promise to be faithful, share assets, love and cherish. If two people of the same gender commit to that then let them go for it.
I judge no one for what they do with their lover/spouse, and I expect that no one judge me for what I do with mine.
by Ilyena on October 31st, 2008
For it!
It's like people telling you you can't be with your wife or husband because it's wrong, and there's really no difference except for gender.
The love is still there and that's what makes people fall in love with each other and want to spend their lives together.
I really don't see why this is so wrong.
by Mrs.Dufresne on October 31st, 2008
When someone says that loving someone is wrong...[just because it happens to be different from ~their~ definition of how love should be ~for them~], then personally, I think they are an idiot.
That being said, I am ~for~ anyone who is in love and wants to share their life with another person (whether it be a man or a woman).
As far as children, and teaching them about relationships between people, it seems really hypocritical to me when someone tries to tell their children about love by telling them some people shouldn't be loved for loving differently.
by BMD on October 31st, 2008
I think equality is important...why not try it?
by MagicSquares on October 31st, 2008
If two people of the same gender want to make those commitments to each other, then that's fine by me.
Is it really right to disqualify approximately 10% of the population from a legal status because of something that they have no control over.
That's no better or different from saying that black people can't get married, or short people, or people born with an extra finger. These are all things that are out of our control, so why should sexual orientation be any different.
The only thing gay couples can't do is have children together, but they can still adopt (although I'm not convinced that children brought up by two parents of the same gender is what's best, but that's tempered by the fact that many hetero-marriages break up and leave children traumatised too).
by Jane on October 31st, 2008
because years ago (1967) black people werent allowed to marry white people...HOW fucked is that? I'm sure we'll think the same way in 50 years about gay marriage.
by kirababe on October 31st, 2008
My argument is for and this is why:
1. people being gay is not hurting you in any way.
2. there are many other species of animals who practice homosexuality...in particular, bonobo chimps practice it to keep peace in their society, rather than use violence to assert leadership....sounds to me like us humans could probably learn something from them.....
FYI: I'm straight.
by sharkey on October 31st, 2008
My favorite is from of all people Jessie Ventura, "The government shouldn't regulate love."
by Lori K still ignores stalkers and trolls on October 31st, 2008
I am conflicted. I want gay couples to get the same legal protections as straight couples who marry, yet I understand that the term "marriage" has religious connotations. I support civil unions for those who wish to avoid the religious issues. That's how most countries in Europe get around the issue. All it takes is for both sides to bend just a little.
by UnIqU3 sW@gG on November 3rd, 2008
Im not against it. Im for it because if the 2 love eachother then let them get married.
by MyCleverScreenName on November 3rd, 2008
I don't understand why gay marriage isn't allowed. It's not hurting anyone. Why should anyone care? I live in a family that is full of gay hate and still have never come to understand what there is to hate.
I have never met someone whose argument against it was anything different than "it's wrong" or "the bible says so."
What does religion have to do with it?
I thought we lived in a democracy not a theocracy?
(Sorry, I notice that not everyone is from America. I don't know how other countries are run so I guess that might not apply in some countries.)
by Inducted Kitty on October 31st, 2008
I am all for it. My niece is gay and married to a wonderful person. They have full custody of her two children, and my niece is loving have them around the house. She had never wanted children of her own before she realized she was gay, but when she met her life partner, who had a son and a daughter, she suddenly loved being a parent! It's because she is now in a stable, loving relationship (with their mother) and not in a shaky, unsure one, which is what she had before with her boyfriend. They have to be one of the happiest, most successful couples in my entire family. They make marriage fun, and that is the way it should be.
by Sodapop on October 31st, 2008
Gay marriage should be allowed because it involves a loving and willing commitment from two partners. Just because two people share a love different then the love you have for someone else it does not mean that that love is bad. I am for it, its a shame so many people are against it, even when it does not involve them.
by BMD on October 31st, 2008
You know what is weird? You can get married (as a straight couple) if you are a witch and want to like, jump over your broomstick with your hands tied together or whatever (my Mum's a witch, I don't remember the exact ceremony, but you get my drift...) and yet if you are gay, it's like some huuuuuuge deal. What's up with that? Hehe...who really cares if someone wants to marry someone of the same sex. Marriage is a ridiculous, outdated ritual anyway. If you want to get married, you should be allowed...if you want to stay single you should be allowed. As long as you don't hurt anyone, why is it so important? Why ya gotta keep a sista down? Ugh...people suck. SO dumb.
by Hypatia on November 3rd, 2008
If you guys could mention one single reason how gay marriage AFECTS YOU, then I will too have an argument against it. So far, my gay neighbor couple have been the best people around and my children respect them as such. It is not of anyone else's business what goes on behind their walls.
by Grammy Robin on November 3rd, 2008
I don't have an argument for or against gay marriage. It is the individual's choice and should not be the business of anyone else. I think the government should stay out of it.
by wolfsquestions99 on October 31st, 2008
Personally, Im all for it!
Why is this even an issue at all?! There are more important things to worry about besides gay marrige,
It isnt/shouldnt come to such a conclusion as to even HAVE a law/prop 8 to decide if they are legally allowed to marry eachother. Its just stupid, there people, there adults, and they love eachother, thats all that really matters.
Honestly, all in all, I dont even really see the point of marrige. To me its the same thing as living together, only you get a ring, a name change from girlfriend-to wife,& having to pay money when you get married-AND when you break up. To me, its just pointless.
by gentletouch on October 31st, 2008
I find the Christian contradiction so intriguing. Since I am not religious, I am more than happy to allow any couple (group even?) to marry, as long as it's consenting adults. Seems as long as the "Christian" attitude is ignored, there are no objections. But it seems "Christians" are opposed. So, if I have this right, those who believe in "Christian Charity", think it's OK to force their views on others. Additionally, if "God" created us in his own image, how do they rationalize "gay". Since "God" created us, and some of us are "gay", then "HE" must be OK with it. Yet, it seems according to these answers, "HE" is not. Mind you I have never understood why "HE" isn't a "SHE" or an "IT". I digress... If gays feel about each other the way I feel about women, how can we tell them not too? I don't ever want to be intimate with a guy, so the opposite must be true. Let people be what they are, let them have their "God Given" right to be who they are, and let them declare in front of their creator, of whatever description what they feel.
by MRSHINYSHOES on November 18th, 2008
Who does it hurt?
They're adults. And all adults should be entitled to the same adult privileges.
by spongeworth on November 5th, 2008
Basically, why on earth would you want to create a separate class of people with different civil rights? For all its religious implications, religious sanction, etc., marriage is fundamentally a civil distinction that carries with it a bundle of rights and privileges. If any particular church or religion refuses to accept a same-sex marriage, I can't question that.
But as a pure civil rights matter, I'd suggest reading Goodridge v. Mass. Dept. of Public Health, 440 Mass. 309 (2003). There's a reason why the court decided to make its decision effective on the 50th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education, and that's because they decided it pretty much on straight-line equal protection grounds. The basic idea is that even if you're gay, you're a person with the same rights as any other person, and although you could establish a parallel civil union, that's more or less a "separate but equal" thing as marriage.
All in all a clever strategem -- if you're going to attack the Mass. SJC's reasoning, you have to go after Brown, and nobody (except maybe Clarence Thomas) is going to be dumb enough to do that.
Personally, why on earth would I care? It's not as if having the option of marrying a dude is going to make me gay. Maybe this is exactly the thing that scares some opponents of it, but I'm comfortable with my sexual orientation.
by Alissa on November 3rd, 2008
If you hate it and think it's wrong, be careful about chipping away at the constitution because it protects your church from the state saying whether your church can make that decision.
Constitutions are there to protect people's rights, not take them away. Part of being free in America is protecting people you don't agree with.
Protect your right to homophobia. Vote NO on Proposition 8!
by alfugazi on December 10th, 2008
There isnt an arguement. What difference does it make if two dudes or two chicks want to get married. It's not hurting anyone. As long as they love one another what difference does it make?
by black rabbit on December 10th, 2008
for everyone should he able to get marreid if they want to
by TERRYTUKER on November 17th, 2008
it's cool with me
by i live for renie on November 17th, 2008
I support it...im straight but marriage is the last step in a relationship to prove to eachother how committed you are to one another. I dont think it should matter if you're the same sex..im straight and i support gay marriage =D
by Esteban-- Smartest Pumpkin on November 17th, 2008
love should not be confined to a gender pairing.
by jbigie on November 6th, 2008
I'm for it. Every American has the same right to be happy or miserable as every other American. Marriage is a relationship that can be good or bad, and is nothing more than a deep commitment between two people. Sometimes it falls apart, as represented by over half of all marriages ending in divorce.
Some people are against same-sex marriages. Anyone who's been married know that it's always the same sex.
by reborn09 on November 6th, 2008
If two people of the same sex want to get married, let them. The entire seperation of church and state should have stopped the hubub about it long ago.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Everyone should be allowed to get married, religion and government should have nothing to do with each other.
by jackpipe30 on November 5th, 2008
I am against gay MARRIAGE, because marriage has become a religious institution and basically a sacrement. For the government to force the word marriage to describe the union between a homosexual couple would tend to force religious institutions to recognize and condone it. Think of all the law suits that would open up if Bobby and Billy wanted to get married at the church they attend, the 35th Christian Church of Anytown, USA (which for our example is against gay marriage). Bobby and Billy would be upset and feel descriminated against by the church, so they file a suit to force the church to have their marriage ceremony in their sanctuary. The church loses, because eventually the case will come before some liberal court, and then the church is forced by the government to condone something that is against their dogma. The phrase in the Constitution stating that Congress shall make no law establishing a national religion is what is cited as the "Separation Clause" and is cited many times to keep the 10 Commandments and the Bible out of court rooms and Nativity scenes off courthouse lawns, but this would not be considered strong enough by the liberal courts to keep them from meddling in what is accepted by the churches, and would force them to accept something that they are against.
I believe that a vast majority of Americans would support legal civil unions between homosexual couples. I am a very conservative person, but I find it totally acceptable, as long as faith based groups are not forced into condoning it or having the ceremonies on their grounds. If a church wishes to allow it, then so be it, but do not force it on people. I think that would be a happy medium for all, but there are too many groups out there that want their way no matter what and don't care about other people's rights. That is what makes this such a hot button issue. Why shove with all your might, when a gentle nudge can get you what you want at it's base? In my state, the homosexual lobby groups pushed full on for marriage and civil unions without regard for the rights of the vast majority, and the vast majority shot the initiative down by better than 35%. Had they asked for legal civil unions, I believe that it would have come much closer to passing or may have passed all together. Change in society takes time, it would have been better for them to lobby for an extra term and then get it on the ballot, but they wanted to force their social ideas on others who did not believe that way, and they failed.
by wookieblu on November 4th, 2008
i have no problem with it people should just see 2 people who love each other and be ok with it.
by Brooklyn on November 3rd, 2008
There is nothing to argue. The way I see it everyone is entitled to make their own decisions. I am a christian and i think that God frowns upon it, but I do not have the right to force my beliefs upon anybody else. Nor do I have the right to judge. If someone judges then their belief in God must not be very strong because He is the only Judge. I also believe that everyone is going to have to get over their closed mindedness because eventually it will be legal no matter how hard you try to stop it. And just a little thought for those of you out there who are against it: Wouldn't you prefer it be legal and let people make and live with their own decisions than seeing gay rights marches on TV? If it was legal, at least you wouldn't have to hear about it everyday.
by JesusFreak on November 3rd, 2008
I am against it. God is against it. It wasn't Adam and Steve but Adam and EVE. Sorry but I think it is wrong.
by Squirrel Face on October 31st, 2008
I'm for it. I seriously don't care if you marry your house plants. I feel that it's none of my business who people want to marry. As long as they aren't hurting anyone else and it makes them happy, they can do whatever they want in my book.
by princessemmabelle on December 10th, 2008
I honestly think if two people love and care about each other, they should be able to marry. What does it hurt me if they chose to commit to each other forever? I am straight and I don't hear any homosexual people telling my fiancé and I that we shouldn't get married because we are straight. What gives straight people the right to judge? And if some people want to bring "God" into this...well go back and read your bible and understand that no one's business is for your judgment! If you want to believe that those who are homosexual will go to "hell" because of whom they love or what they want to do with their bodies then keep it to yourself, or you are contradicting what your god wants you to do.
by Chappy on November 25th, 2008
Adam & Eve NOT Adam & Steve.
by Colt COAT of Justice on November 18th, 2008
No argument at all. Human rights are human rights pure and simple; don't you think
by Annonymous on November 17th, 2008
Gay marriage should be allowed because love is love no matter how you look at it and gays should be allowed to have children because they can provide for it and love it possibly more than a straight couple could. The main reason gays want to get married is so that they have the same rights as straight couples do. Example if a gay person's partner goes into the hospital they can be denied seeing the person and sent away but if it was a straight couple they couldn't do that if they were married.
by sharkey on November 8th, 2008
Love should not be governed.
by Anonymous on November 8th, 2008
For it! :) They have the right to be just as happy as everyone else
by FreshApples on November 7th, 2008
I'm all for it, even though everyone in my family including relatives and the whole sha-bang are 100% against it.
its ignorant to say they are different because of it.
and there has to be a separation of church and state. what it says in the Bible should not interfere with the law.
by Jen says hi - xx on November 6th, 2008
we are all human right?
YES!! so we should treat people exactly the same way as we wish to be treated!!!
no matter what someones sexually preferences or skin colour is we should all be equal and have equal rights..
Why do opponents of gay marriage blame homosexuals? Aren't the straight people the ones to blame for having gay babies?
by unjustenrichment on June 29th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
Julia Gilard should legalize gay marriage. Agree/disagree? why?
by Blinding Darkness on August 15th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
If "your own kind" crosses you are they forever dead to you? The Republicans who voted for gay marriage in New York...are they dead?
by RosieGHM Jetpacker on June 26th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
Should a clergyman or civil official be required to perform a gay marriage even if it violates his conscience?
by cehowski on June 24th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
If a gay couple is married in a state where it is legal, yet reside in a state where it isn't, does the home state recognize the marrige?
by 34th st. on July 6th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
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Comments
thanks for the perspective.
by snicklefrits_4_u on October 31st, 2008
While you are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. I think you are dead wrong. I think it is persons such as yourself who confuse children, by filling their heads with such nonsense. My parents are straight and I'm not confused, I don't think I have to be straight!
Regardless, have a nice day!
by BMD on October 31st, 2008
@Candygirl: How do you know what a child will think in a totally abstract situation? Have you had direct, personal experience observing the behavior and responses of children raised by gays?
by HasntBeen on October 31st, 2008
@blissfullymad I never said you had to be straight, you can be whatever you want to be, I just hope you don't bring a child into it.
@hasntbeen no I do not know any adults that have been raised by gay parents. I do however know some messed up adults that their parents have a impact on their lives because their childhood, drugs, alcohol, abuse, and in my opinion this is just another one of those to screw a child up.
by Candygirl on October 31st, 2008
I think you're generalizing excessively: there's no compelling reason to believe that drunk, drug-abusing, or abusive parents are in any way like healthy, loving, gay parents. It sounds like pure speculation to me.
by HasntBeen on October 31st, 2008
I have to agree with HasntBeen and BlissfullyMad. I happen to be lesbian, and find the thought that we'll confuse or screw up kids to be offensive, especially considering how many straight parents can do that! I don't have children, but have many gay/lesbian friends who do. They are all very happy, healthy, well-adjusted kids. They are not confused or screwed up. And sexual orientation cannot be taught. The majority of us (LGBT) are born to straight parents, and most LGBT that I know that have kids have straight kids. It's all genetic, not learned.
by redcatt63 is around here somewhere...... on October 31st, 2008
Maybe having gay parents will just open up the child's mind more. There are so many other things unrelated to marital status that might make children confused, or feeling different from others.
by Iris loves warm weather on October 31st, 2008
Good point. Most of the kids I mentioned are much more open-minded. They don't exhibit such prejudice.
by redcatt63 is around here somewhere...... on October 31st, 2008
My own view is that the hardest lesson to learn in life is to be yourself. I suspect that gays who are out of the closet are actually better equipped to teach that than most of us. The courage required to buck public opinion and walk the road that is right for you is the real teaching credential.
by HasntBeen on October 31st, 2008
I agree with you all...well, except for candy, of course...and for point of reference candy, I never thought you said I had to be straight...perhaps you need to re-read my comment.
I have already raised three happy, healthy children...my siblings. They are some of the best people I know, and are not "screwed up" in any way.
by BMD on October 31st, 2008
I love when a question is asked here on AB asking what do you think about this....and when someone doesn't answer your way, or you don't agree, you all want to start saying blah blah blah. I gave Candy's opinion and I didn't ask anybody to agree with it. It is mine and it can be mine alone. I am not here to change your way of thinking and none of you are going to change my way of thinking. So thank you all for the questions and comments and yall have a gay day.
by Candygirl on November 1st, 2008
Sorry you don't like dissent, but that's the way Answerbag is: if you post an opinion, and someone thinks you're full of it, they are likely to say so. You can either lament the horrors of free speech, or you can not exercise your own. It's a pretty simple system.
by HasntBeen on November 1st, 2008
Well hip hip horray for all of you that think I am full of it. I will continue to exercise my opinion and free speech and continue to listen to a bunch of gays whine about people not supporting them and their wishes to be married to the same sex. God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. The purpose is to reproduce, if gays can not reproduce then that should be the only answer they need, it was not meant for them to be able to.
by Candygirl on November 1st, 2008
It's interesting that your answer is slightly tolerant and gracious, while your comment is vile and hate-filled. Seems like your true colors come out when you're upset. Good to know.
by HasntBeen on November 1st, 2008
I am not upset at all, sorry if you are misunderstanding me. I did answer this question with my honest opinion and I meant every word of what I said and if you want to re-read it then you will see that I said I don't care what gay people do, it is the children that I care about. Even in my last comment I don't think it is hateful, it is the way I feel about it. Sorry if you are one of those people that can go around expressing your feeling but can't seem to handle when someone else does it. I thought that was one of the things that was encouraged by all of you to be yourself. This is me being myself, no hate intended, just telling you how I feel.
by Candygirl on November 1st, 2008
My intent behind saying that I disagree with you was not to belittle your right to an opinion Candy, however to merely state that I disagree with you. Everyone has a right to their opinion...including myself.
That being said, since when is the purpose of marriage to reproduce? And since when can "gays" not reproduce? We have all of the same parts you do.
Also, you have failed to provide a valid argument for your accusation that being a gay parent will "screw up a child". Not that you are required to provide one, but being that you are involved in the debate and so vocal about your opinion, some reasoning would not only be nice, but helpful.
by BMD on November 1st, 2008
Just re-reading your comments Candy...you seem to have many accusations, but not a whole lot of reasoning. We understand you have your opinion...what we want to know is why. What is your reason for having the opinion? (Hope this helps you understand better.)
by BMD on November 1st, 2008
Candygirl:
"Well hip hip horray for all of you that think I am full of it." I'll agree with that!
.
"God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve."
I can't believe you actually used that phrase! Wow.
.
"The purpose is to reproduce, if gays can not reproduce then that should be the only answer they need, it was not meant for them to be able to."
So, straight couples that are not able to reproduce for reasons of sterility should not be together?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 2nd, 2008
Yes, that "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" is one of the most ridiculous, worn out lines that never seems to go away.
And I never get the point of saying that the purpose of marriage is to reproduce, when not all straight couples want or can have kids either. So, I guess when my mom remarried after my dad died, and she was past menopause, that marriage shouldn't have been allowed? Or couples that are sterile or just don't want kids, they shouldn't bother to marry either, I suppose. That's the dumbest argument in the book.
by redcatt63 is around here somewhere...... on November 2nd, 2008
Well I usually try to avoid 4-on-1 pileups. Candygirl, you are indeed entitled to your opinion -- but as you can see there are a lot of smart people who have some arguments that are tough to respond to. Here's my suggestion: try to have an open mind. Maybe you don't have this all figured out yet. Maybe you've picked up some opinions from others that haven't yet received the rigorous fact-checking and logical analysis that I know you really want to do before you promote something to the status of "my opinion". It's always good to get an opinion grounded, especially on such a sensitive topic, before exposing it to public scrutiny.
by HasntBeen on November 2nd, 2008
Candygirl, that was terrible. Even from an outsiders perspective on it. Honestly, pathetic arguement.
"The child will never understand why they have two dads or two moms when the other kids have a mom and a dad."
Ok, let me fill you in. When that child is 20, for as long as he/she can remember, they will have known about homo/heterosexuality and why he has 2 mums/dads. He/she will have known about the adoption, artificial insemination, surrogate pregnancy or whatever else. Ok?
He/she will be brought up understanding their sexuality is not a choice and that he/she should not feel ashamed about his/her sexuality.
HE OR SHE WILL UNDERSTAND.
by I Are Yogi Bear on November 3rd, 2008
Those kids would understand better than any other kids. They'd be lucky to learn about accepting peoples' differences at such a young age.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 3rd, 2008
To all five of you I have said why I disagree with gay marriage but if you re-read my answer you will also that I said I don't care what gays do, I care about when they bring children into it. If you need a sex education 101, let me breif you, to reproduce you need a penis and a vagina, not a penis and a penis, not a vagina and a vagina.
by Candygirl on November 3rd, 2008
I think it is wrong and you can think whatever you want. You can comment until you are blue in the face but you aren't going to change the way I feel so all of you are wasting your time and should stop trying. I am sick of hearing I am gay and I can't help it!! That is such BULL, it sounds like a crack head, we all make choices in life and you choose to be gay as well. Children do not choose to be brought into your messed up worlds with you. Leave them alone and do your thing!!!
by Candygirl on November 3rd, 2008
I don't understand why you're getting so upset and taking it so personally -- we're just saying your opinion is BS, we're not saying you're a terrible person. It's a discussion, it's ok to chill a bit.
As for "choosing to be gay", as far as anyone can tell, sexual preference is not chosen -- nobody can remember *deciding* to desire their own gender. Behavior IS chosen, obviously. So "being gay" is ambiguous: does that refer to preference or behavior? Are you saying that someone who is involuntarily attracted to their own gender should suppress that and only have sex with the opposite gender, or they're like a crackhead? That seems rather extremist for someone who is "ok with them being gay"...
by HasntBeen on November 3rd, 2008
That is the 2nd time you have told me not to get upset, okay..I think I know when I am upset and you will know if I get upset. This is a discussion that is going nowhere, so what is the point? I feel the way I do, you can feel the way you do and that is that. Why don't you go answer some kids question about being gay and spread the word to innocent children that it is okay to be gay and that it is so cool to be true to yourself and your feelings and blah blah blah. You all need to get back in the closet on your knees and do some praying.
by Candygirl on November 3rd, 2008
Candy, typically when people get upset they stop being rational and start throwing out rude remarks instead of information...such as yourself. This is why everyone believes you to be getting upset.
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The point of this discussion is not to convince you of anything...it is to debate a widely discussed topic, and to bring new ideas and information to the table. For everyone. It's not just about you.
by BMD on November 3rd, 2008
What remarks have I made that were rude? It is five against one here so I don't know what information you are bringing to the table that all five of you don't agree on. Fact is the five of you act as if you want me to say ok I give, I believe everything you are saying is right and it is the truth. Well I'm not so give it up, like I told HasntBeen this is going nowhere.....
by Candygirl on November 3rd, 2008
Well, for starters, saying that people who are gay are like people who are crackheads...that is not in any way informative, it is just a derogatory comment. Same with "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". (It is as though you have been brainwashed to throw outlandish comments into the mix, rather than having an intelligent conversation.)
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We are not asking you to change your mind...we are asking you to give us some information to back up what you are saying so that we may better understand your point. Instead you are becoming increasingly defensive and avoiding our questions.
by BMD on November 3rd, 2008
Candygirl: I'm not against anybody. I'm just stating my opinions here like everyone else including yourself.
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"Why don't you go answer some kids question about being gay and spread the word to innocent children that it is okay to be gay and that it is so cool to be true to yourself and your feelings..." - Gladly!
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Do you disagree that it's cool to be true to yourself and your feelings?
Also, when you have sentences in your comments that have two or three exclamations points in them, can you blame us for thinking you're getting upset? That's what exclamations points are for, to show excitement.
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By the way, I'm not gay. Nobody in my family is that I'm aware of but I am one of those weird people that accepts others for who they are and not who they love.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 3rd, 2008
@aquaticEagle I have re-read all of my comments and I only see exclamations at the end of one sentence, that is where I said do what you want to do but leave the children alone. This was after I was told I was getting upset. I on the other hand do have gay people in my family and I do love them and accept them, I however do not agree with children being involved in their lifestyle of their choice.
by Candygirl on November 3rd, 2008
Candygirl, you are my hero!!!
by Designeedawn on November 3rd, 2008
I'm going to defend Candy here. Well, at least her argument, not so much the rude stuff in between. Something about gay parents adopting children doesn't sit well with me, and to be fair, morally I disagree with homo-sexuality. It's probably because I don't understand homo-sexuality, being a straight man myself. To quote Batman Begins "you always fear what you don't understand". One of you said that gender attraction is genetic, and that no one remembers choosing to be attracted to their opposite or same sex. Here's my issue with that argument. If I had to guess, and I'm no scientist, most people do what they learn. My friends in third grade were jonesin' for the ladies and I quickly became aware of how they smelled nicer, and had hair in all the right places and in general were softer.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 3rd, 2008
I would be willing to state that my opinion on attraction was directly affected by those around me. Had my three best friends all been gay, there is a solid chance I would have been at the very least drawn to be their fourth wheel. Do you see where I'm going? Candy disagrees with homo-sexuality, and therefore feels that if a child is raised by gay parents there is a higher chance for that child to be attracted to their same sex and since none of you can say why gay people are gay and straight people are straight there is nothing to refute that argument, and I don't think it makes Candy an awful person to want to increase the chances for straight people, because that is what she believes to be correct.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 3rd, 2008
Now, barring gay people from those rights is another argument entirely and I've read her remarks a few times and I think amidst the silly anger what she was trying to express was that she doesn't agree with a higher percentage of children being influenced by homo-sexuality, again, that doesn't make her a terrible person, just one with preferences like anyone else. So please direct all of your further comments to me, as I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge rather than speak my mind with little insults mixed in.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 3rd, 2008
My comments will be directed at whoever they need to be. If Candygirl needs a bodyguard then she shouldn't be on a public forum posting her opinions.
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Candygirl, you haven't addressed what I said earlier. If the purpose of a coupling of people is to reproduce, then what do you say about straight couples that cannot reproduce due to sterility or other biological reasons? Should married, straight couples get divorced if they find out they can't have a baby?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 3rd, 2008
Candy didn't ask me to do anything, so I'm no body guard. If you would rather prey on someone you know probably isn't going to be able to answer your question to the level you would prefer, that's your prerogative chief. Why don't you kick some old people too, as long as you're being tough and doing what you want. I'll be around if you need to direct any comments to me, otherwise I hope you five have a swell time showing her whose boss. Or bosses.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 3rd, 2008
In what way am I preying? She posted her answer and she should expect to hear people that don't agree with it. I didn't seek her out. I'm not sending her hateful emails. I'm responding to something she posted. If she isn't able to answer the simple questions that have been asked, then she doesn't know enough about the subject to officially have a position and has no business responding to it.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 3rd, 2008
@aquaticEagle To satisfy you I will answer your question, even though I don't find it to be relevant. Straight couples that can not conceive for whatever reason, no I do not think they should get a divorce. Why should they? Straight couples could adopt a child. You should have known that I would say that because my only argument against gay couples being married as I have said is when they want to add children into their family. I never said that married couples gay or straight HAD to have children.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Candygirl...I believe he was referring to your comment, "The purpose is to reproduce, if gays can not reproduce then that should be the only answer they need."
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We understand your opinion (at least I do) and I get that it is your right to have it. What I would like to know is WHY you have this opinion, and what information you have to "back it up"...not because I'm trying to prove you wrong, but because I honestly want to know what brought you to this conclusion, and why you are so adamant that it is correct, even in the face of fact.
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Like I said, I have raised three beautiful,healthy, intelligent, loving, caring, wonderful, well-adjusted children. I am a lesbian. They are all straight. That is my fact.
by BMD on November 4th, 2008
How is my question not relevant? You said, "The purpose is to reproduce, if gays can not reproduce then that should be the only answer they need." So if a straight couple cannot reproduce then why should they stay together if a gay couple can't? Gay couples can adopt a child too, there aren't rules against that as far as I know. Blissfully is a good example of that situation of children being raised by homosexuals as being successful.
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And yes, according to the quote above, you are saying it's pointless for a gay couple to be married if they can't have children. So...that's the same as saying "that married couples gay or straight HAD to have children".
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Both of you are taking what I have said and using it to your advantage to try to make some kind of point. I said that gay couples can not reproduce, yes I did, does that mean that I said ALL straight couples can, no I didn't. I realize that there are some straight couples that can't have children, due to whatever reason. My beliefs are based on the bible and what I believe to be wrong. I thought I had already made that very clear. What more do you want from me??
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
I want you to give us a good reason for your belief that gay couples should not be able to marry and adopt. What proof do you have that gays will corrupt a growing child? Do you know of any cases that prove this? If you don't then why do you have this belief?
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Nobody said that you ever said that all straight couples can have children. I just made the point that not all of them can and asked if you think they shouldn't be together.
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If you say that you have nothing against gays until they want to bring children into the picture and you say that your belief is based on the Bible...where in the Bible does it say that?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Aquatic...glad to know that I'm not the only one who feels like she's talking to a wall.
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Candy...please re-read my last post. Over and over until you see what it actually says.
by BMD on November 4th, 2008
Read Leviticus 18 it talks about Unlawful Sexual relations.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
@bliss I have read your comment and I know you have said that you took care of your three siblings, that is hardly the same as raising a baby from birth in a home with another woman. So please drop that as your argument that children can turn out fine with a gay mommy.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
You can also read Leviticus 20:13 if a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surely be put to death;their blood shall be upon them.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
So what's the difference between adopting a child from outside of the family and practically adopting your own siblings? According to your reasoning Candygirl, wouldn't that have an even worse effect on the kids since they look up to their older sibling? Obviously that is not the case with Blissfully's situation.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
You nor I don't even know the age difference between her and her siblings nor do we know how long she actually cared for them on her own. Alot of people take credit for raising others kids, when in fact they may have stayed with them for a couple of years, or on and off for some period of time. It is not the same as being a mother from day one and raising a child that knows you are their mother. Bliss do your siblings not know that you aren't their mother? I am quiet sure that they know she is their sister and not their mother.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Okay Candygirl this makes no sense. You said that you have no problem with gays until they want to bring children into the mix.
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"Usually after love,sex, marriage comes a baby so my only argument would be children involved. Adults can do whatever they want to, I don't agree with it but I don't care either. When a gay couple wants a family that is what I disagree with."
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Then you said that your belief is based in the Bible. I asked for proof and all you can provide is a quote from the Bible that says that homosexuality is wrong. Your quote has nothing to do with gays having children in their family. You said that your position that gays can be gay as long as they have children was supported by the Bible. You still haven't shown us where.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
" I am quiet sure that they know she is their sister and not their mother."
Why does that matter? If she raised them she raised them. Are you saying that only the biological parents could have a serious effect on the children? If that's the case, how can you say that adopted gay parents will have a negative effect?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Either way, she was the role model that they were raised with.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
You typed it so the answer is clear...I said "I don't agree with it but I don't care either" that being people being gay period. You and anybody else has to be accountable for their own sin. I said my argument is when gay couples bring children into their relationship. I never said it is in the bible that gay couples should not have children, I said my belief is based on what the bible says which it says being gay is wrong so if you don't be gay then there won't be gay couples having children. You are being picky with your words and stumbling all over what I have said to try to justify that the bible doesn't say gays shouldn't have children, no it says you shouldn't be gay. Hello???Do you feel me yet?
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Okay then we aren't going anywhere else with the Bible talk. Now can you answer the questions above?
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Of course they are your beliefs and you can have them if you want. I just know that I don't have any beliefs unless they are founded in something solid. The Bible is not solid. It is a book written by man and it can be interpreted in so many ways. Why would you base such a strong belief on only one book? If you witnessed a family raised by gay parents and those children turned out to be completely "normal", would you consider changing your beliefs?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
One of my siblings I raised from birth, the others I helped raise until they were four and eight, and then I raised him from that point on. While I did not have another gay woman in the house, they were raised with my beliefs, my rules, under my roof. Yes, they do realize that I am biologically their sister, but they look to me as a mother. Attacking me does not prove your point.
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You are right in saying that you don't know anything about me. But that is hardly a valid argument.
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Okay people, I have to go run some errands, but keep on going without me...I'm looking forward to hearing what you all have to say!
by BMD on November 4th, 2008
No to me the bible is God's word and one billon children that turned out wonderful that were raised by a gay couple will not change my beliefs. I believe in God's word and nothing or nobody can or will ever change what I believe.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Can't tear myself away from AB...okay...I have to go...but before I do...I have to point out...even though this isn't the original topic of discussion...the bible is not God's word...the bible was written by men...Even the Ten Commandments are hearsay...And I do believe that you aren't a very good Christian if you don't question the bible...because otherwise you are just a blind follower...which could very much lead you astray...I don't think God wants you to be a lemming...
by BMD on November 4th, 2008
Bliss I didn't attack you. lol People you want me to think your way and I don't. What is the problem? Am I the first person that ever told you that they disagree with you? Am I the first person that will give you the time of the day to even talk to you? At least I have been considerate and nice to all of you throughout this thread in this discussion. I can't believe that we are still here talking about this, you don't know me so why do you care so much about how I feel about it? If you didn't care about what others thought it looks to me like you would have stopped commenting by now.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Well then this says a lot about you. You have made it clear that you would not change your beliefs even if they were proven wrong one billion times. That's very very sad. To say that you won't change your beliefs just because someone asks you to is admirable but to keep the same beliefs when they are proven absolutely wrong repeatedly is just stubborn and sad. I never asked you to change your beliefs, I only asked you to support them. If all you can provide is the Bible and you admit that nothing short of God descending and telling you to accept homosexuals will change your opinions then I guess you really have shown your true colors.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
I care about what other people think when it means that good people can't share their love and wisdom with children just because they are homosexual.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Unlike you Bliss I don't care what you think about me. My relationship to christ is between me and God, nobody else. It is none of your business what I question to God. That is also between me and him. The bible was written by many men that walked the earth with Jesus, but I know that those words written in red were the words of Jesus. I know I am not lead astray at all.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Blissfully makes a great point. Anyone will tell you that to follow any belief system without questioning is the worst thing to do. Have you never questioned what you were told? Or have you always taken everything you have ever heard as fact?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
see my comment above AquaticEagle
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
So I take it that the two of you question being Gay since you think you should question anything that you believe in. So my advice to both of you would be to continue questioning what you believe in. For the record why do either of you feel that you have to force your beliefs on me? I said from the start of this that you can do whatever you want...why do you need my approval? What is the difference that I don't agree with being gay and you don't agree with the bible? I am not pushing you to think like me. So why are the two of you trying to push me?
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
See my questions above.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Yes, I question everything about myself and my beliefs. I always have and I'm proud of it. That's how I confirm who I really am. Who here is forcing any beliefs on anyone? Have you been paying attention? We are just trying to find out why you feel the way you do. We never said that you have to believe that being gay is okay. We aren't pushing you to think like us, we are pushing you to support your own beliefs and so far you have given us nothing except that you follow your beliefs blindly without question. That is not support, that is scary.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Duh that is why I said see my comment that is the answer to your question. I take my questions straight to the man himself not people that live in the flesh here on earth. I already answered your question in my comment above. Your question was a repeat of hers....
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Okay now you think I believe in something blindly without question. Look you do not know me or anything about me, you do not know where I come from or what I am been through in life. You don't know what causes me to believe so passionate about God and the bible as I do. You know what, I don't expect you to, until you are at rock bottom and you have nothing and God finds you in the middle of the night and saves your life then you will never know. Good thing is as long as you have a breath in your body you will have time to change your heart.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
No, you didn't answer my question.
"Have you never questioned what you were told? Or have you always taken everything you have ever heard as fact?"
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
My relationship to christ is between me and God, nobody else. It is none of your business what I question to God. That is also between me and him.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
That is my answer^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
"Okay now you think I believe in something blindly without question."
You told us that you believe without questioning. You said yourself that nothing would ever make you change your beliefs. That means that you don't question your beliefs because there's no point to if you aren't going to change them anyway.
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You're right. I don't know you. All I know of you is what I've read in this thread and it's pretty disappointing to know that there are so many people that will believe what they are told no matter what.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
My question is not about God. My question was about everything in general. I'll say it again.
"Have you never questioned what you were told? Or have you always taken everything you have ever heard as fact?"
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
My beliefs aren't based on what I have been told. They are on what is in the bible so yes your question is about God. Everything in my life is about God, God is the one that makes all of my decisions in my life. He is the only person that I take my questions to. I think it is common sense to see that I haven't believed everything I have heard to be a fact or else I wouldn't be here debating with you on this subject. Does that satisfy you enough now? Or have I still not answered your question good enough for you?
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
"I think it is common sense to see that I haven't believed everything I have heard to be a fact or else I wouldn't be here debating with you on this subject."
How is that common sense? You haven't questioned your beliefs since you start with your answer so in what way does the above statement make any sense? The fact that you are here debating the subject doesn't mean you are questioning anything, it just means that you have an opinion and you are defending it. If you didn't believe something based on blind faith then you would be open to change your beliefs. By your statement that 1 billion normal children coming from gay families wouldn't have any effect on your opinion that gays shouldn't raise children proves that you have blind faith.
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You know in history, many thousands if not millions of people have been killed because they believed something without questioning it. It's a very dangerous thing to do.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
And no, you haven't answered my question. I asked about everything other than God. I don't know how to make that any clearer to you. When a teacher says something in school or a parent tells you something as fact, do you accept it blindly? As a child maybe but as a person growing into an adult, did you never question anything that you were told?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Wow...looks like I have a lot to catch up on! But before I get to all of that, I have to ask...Candy, you said, "Everything in my life is about God, God is the one that makes all of my decisions in my life. He is the only person that I take my questions to."
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My question is, are you like, the next Joan of Arc or something?
by BMD on November 4th, 2008
I am done with the two of you. I have been respectful as I could and you both keep questioning my beliefs like why, do you ever question, what if, what about this, get on with your life and stop worrying about what Candy believes in, okay? I have answered you with the best answer I can and you refuse to accept it and then Bliss wants to try to make a joke and ask me am I the next Joan of Arc. HAHA We will see who will be laughing come judgement day, when everybody will have to stand in front of God and answer for what they have done. God bless you both and the lives of people that you come across.
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Lmao...Candy, we just want you to explain so we undererstand...well, that's what I wanted anyway...I may have made a joke, but I was serious about the question. Do you hear God talk back to you? Because you said that he makes all of the decisions in your life. I am a very literal person, and I like to hear other people's reasoning...not just their opinions. Being that you seem unable to provide reasoning, I agree, this post is getting a little more than redundant. Though I have to say, I think we have officially reached the "longest comment post board for an AB question" EVER. Hehehe...
by BMD on November 4th, 2008
Yes God does speak to me as he can and does to anybody that listens to hear him. You can laugh all you want and pretend that this is funny but you are showing how immature you really are now. Are you sure that you raised 4kids or did they raise you? This is by far not the longest thread on AB. Go do some research. hehehe
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
I'm not worried about what you believe. I'm worried that YOU aren't worried about what you believe. I don't see the logic in blind faith.
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No, you haven't answered me with the best answer you can. I asked if you believe everything that anybody ever tells you without questioning. You answered that God makes all of your life decisions. That has nothing to do with whether or not you question something you learn in school or that your parents taught you. If you don't want to answer that question then just say so but don't tell me that you have when it's clear to any sane person that you haven't.
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Blissfully, I've got this comment thread beat. Look at answer #17.
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/4291377
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Candy, it is dangerous to assume. I am not a religious person, but I am a spiritual one, who believes in God. And I respect the right of those who are religious, in all it's forms, for everyone should have the right to believe as they choose, so long as they aren't hurting anyone.
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So God actually speaks to you? Cool! What does he sound like? Personally I always imagined he would sound like Morgan Freeman...not sure why...
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Also, I did not raise four children, I raised three. Although I've worked as a nanny for years, so I guess that counts for something as well, but I don't consider it to be as such since they had their parents caring for them as well.
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I am not about to "do research" on long AB comment threads...being that it would be a waste of time, and is something I don't care one wit about...but you have to admit, this is getting very long...like, crazy awesome long. I'm kind-of proud of it really.
by BMD on November 4th, 2008
Wow, AQ, that is impressive! And I agree with you. There is no logic in blind faith.
by BMD on November 4th, 2008
"This is by far not the longest thread on AB. Go do some research. hehehe"
Wow you really zinged her.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/287133 Why don't both of you go do some reading there for awhile, that should keep you busy.lol Don't forget to click where it says show all comments....
by Candygirl on November 4th, 2008
Prey: a person or thing easily injured or taken advantage of. Nope. That wasn't the case was it? Candy thinks homo-sexuality is wrong only she wasn't able to say why. Morally I disagree with it as well. Those morals are based on my conscience, the thing that tells me what is right and wrong. My conscience is rooted in the Bible and things I have learned. What facts do I have to support my thinking that homo-sexuality is wrong? None. Which facts do you have that support homo-sexuality being right? none, it's a matter of personal preference. Let's look at it in a scientific light though. In a survival of the fittest means of life who would win, a colony of straight people or a colony of gays? Well, gay people would die out because as mentioned they can't make more humans. So I personally believe it's reasonable to think that what's natural is the joining between a man and a woman, and I don't think that makes me close minded.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
I also recognize I make my choices and no one else's so if two dude's are in love with each other that's fine. Do I think it's natural? no. Do I agree with it? no. I'm a Christian open to debate on my values. Show me your thinking. I try my best to understand logical thinking not swallow everything the pastor says.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
Gays can make more humans. Surrogacy and artificial insemination make that possible.
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I'm glad you are open to debate on your values. It's good to see that not everyone one your side of the debate drinks the Kool-Aid without question.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
Well. To the best of my knowledge both of those methods require a man AND a woman not two of the same. That's not to say gays are incapable of such a feat or that either of those methods are wrong, I happen to embrace scientific advances. In High School biology I learned about a study being done to isolate a certain chemical "trigger" that causes cells to self-destruct, the thought being that if they could harness it they could target cancer cells. Pretty awesome. However, gays by natural means cannot reproduce. Now you could argue just because it's "unnatural" doesn't make it wrong. Man wasn't created to fly so he built airplanes. That's not natural. Right, but at the primal level of humanity I would argue that being with someone that shares your same sexual organs does not make logical sense. Can you refute that?
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
Of course both man and woman have to be involved in reproduction. I cannot and would not try to refute that. My point is that unless you have a society of 100% male or 100% female, humans can still reproduce by whatever means.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
And my point is for someone who has beliefs that adhere to the Bible's teaching is it reasonable to understand why they would have moral qualms with homo-sexuality? A very good friend of mine who was also a pastor once said "love the sinner, hate the sin." That is by no means to say that I am without sin. I sin a lot.
I would like to propose a new topic, or sub-topic if I may. I'll hand you the burden of proof to begin if you don't mind. What factual evidence do you have that sexual orientation is genetic?
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
But as Candygirl stated, her main problem is not the possibility of reproductiveness, it's the impact that homosexuality will have on the children. I can understand that would come from the Bibles teaching that homosexuality is wrong. What I can't understand is how someone can not even think to question this type of belief when, I quote Candygirl, "one billon children that turned out wonderful that were raised by a gay couple will not change my beliefs".
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
No, I don't accept that topic myself because I am not a firm believer that homosexuality is genetic. I think that a tendency towards behavior of the opposite sex may be genetic and that may lead to homosexuality but I don't think that homosexuality is 100% genetic.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
My guess? Candy is a newer Christian. I was a christian for 16 years before I started to have serious questions about my faith. Granted, I'm only 20. However, if I were to hazard another guess about Candy, it's this; she has not reached the point of maturity where she can distinguish between black, white, and gray. Everything God honoring is white. Everything even partly not is black. I can't say I have a firm opinion on gay adoption. My knee jerk reaction is that it's wrong. Probably because like Candy I was brought up knowing that all things God=right. However, the only argument I have against it is this. By most Christians homo-sexuality is frowned upon, therefore in my experience it's rare to meet a gay christian. Very rare. I never have actually. Why is it that Christians come down on homo-sexuality like it's the 8th deadly sin? Well I can't say for certain but homo-sexuality is a lifestyle. It isn't just like oh yeah also, I'm gay. At least in my experience.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
And to clarify, no I am not saying gays are bad people, a persons decisions and personal conduct dictate that, not their sexual orientation. Anyways, if homo-sexuality is a sin by Christian standards, and if it's something of a way of life some would argue that gay people are "living in sin". Now back to my main argument. Since I have yet to meet a gay Christian I think it's a relatively safe bet that most kids raised by homo-sexual parents would not be taught Christianity. Which would be my obvious preference. But I guess. As long as their parents loved them and gave them the option to choose their own system of beliefs there isn't any harm. There are plenty of kids that are raised by straight parents that aren't taught Christianity. So yeah. Adoption it is. Christians aren't all blind and deaf after all.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
If anyone would care to argue what decides sexual orientation I would very much appreciate it.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
Ignorance or immaturity are not good excuses for intolerance. This is a reason why religious beliefs should not be forced on any child but should be left for when the child is old enough to learn about them on their own.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
I would say that sexual orientation could be influenced by environment and genetics. Again, I think that a tendency towards behavior similar to the opposite sex might be genetic and because of that, the person might be more likely to become gay. Either because they show opposite sex behavior and they are allowed to express it or because they are forbidden from it. When someone is forbidden from something, they tend to seek it even more.
These are just ideas, I don't have a 100% decision on the causes of homosexuality yet.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
I don't think religious beliefs=intolerance. I've met plenty of intolerant atheists. The idea behind raising kids christian is to teach them morals, at least in my mind. For example, not having sex before marriage. That's a Christian value. Could that be taught without religion? Sure. However I am also of the strong belief that without Jesus you will not go to heaven. That's something I feel is important enough to teach anyone about with the obvious option for them to disagree with and reject that.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
I think everything in life is a choice. You choose your own path. Some people are attracted to their same sex. I'm attracted to women but I choose not to engage in sexual activity before marriage because that goes against my morals. Also I've heard of people that "turn gay" and then go back to being straight. Again, a decision was made.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
I don't think religious beliefs=intolerance either. I think the specific beliefs that Candy holds are intolerant. I know plenty of intolerant atheists too. I don't have a problem with Christianity teaching morals. I don't see anything wrong with teaching kids to wait until marriage for sex. I don't personally agree that it is necessary but that's my opinion. Teaching kids that homosexuality is wrong no matter what is not the same as teaching morals though, it's teaching kids to judge others negatively without knowing anything about them other than their sexual preference.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
I agree, intolerance is never ok. I think something a lot of Christians forget is that when Jesus was on earth he hung out with hookers and tax-collectors, and you know who He hated? The religious people that lived by their silly rules. Religion is man's attempt to bind himself to God through rules. I don't like that. I have a relationship with Jesus, it's just easier to say I'm a Christian than explain that I'm not really religious to people. Anyways, yeah. I do no support Candy's blatant disregard for people.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
I can respect your opinions and beliefs. I'm guessing the absence of almost an hour had to do with the election.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 4th, 2008
It had to do with my overwhelmingly immature friends in relation to the election yes. I've got an interesting thought I want to bounce off you AE. A girl I know had a facebook status that was "people were excited about Hitler too..." At first I was like really? Comparing Obama to a mass murderer and then I let her explain it and she went on to say she thought it was dangerous how head over heels america is for this man. And how when a mob gets unified and carried away there are dangerous possibilities should that man have some sort of hidden agenda. Not that I think he does but what are your thoughts on that? Also I respect you for showing me respect.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 4th, 2008
This is amazing me....all I can do is sit here and shake my head. First thing that sticks out the most to me is "Candy has blatant disregard for people". Second, BruceWayne I am old enough to have changed your diapers but yet "your guess would be that I am a new christian". AE you wanted to do nothing but agrue with me and question me, question after question, but a male can ride in here and say the same things that I have said, which is he is against gay marriages due to his christian beliefs and you accept that from him but not from me.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Stop talking about Candy when I am not here to defend myself. How are my beliefs intolerant? What makes how I feel and what I have been telling you for 3 days any different than Bruce here?
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Okay, give me a call and let me know the exact minutes that you will be online and I will be sure to only post when I know you're on. *shakes head* This is an online forum. Get used to getting talked to or about when you aren't online. It happens to everyone.
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Bruce gave explanation instead of getting defensive. Bruce did not insult people or make immature mocking remarks about gays. Again, I accepted that you are against gay marriage due to your Christian beliefs. What I was not accepting was that you would be against gay couples having children only because of the Bibles teachings even in the face of overwhelming evidence "one billon children that turned out wonderful that were raised by a gay couple will not change my beliefs". I've said this repeatedly. You and Bruce did not have the same things to say. Bruce explained his beliefs. You just fingered the Bible and left it at that.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
BW: I have also seen many Facebook statuses that have made me sick. It makes me sad that when he was elected, the only negative reactions you see are race related or references to terrorism (middle name). At least when Bush was elected, twice, people weren't upset about him being white and weren't calling him a white cracker, they were calling him an idiot because it's surprising that he would be elected to the highest office in the land when he has trouble tying his shoes. I don't see what's wrong with America going head over heels for him. I think after what we've had for 8 years, we deserve a President to go head over heels for. Of course we don't want to get carried away about anyone but it hasn't even been 24 hours yet. People are still excited and they will be for a while. Would it be any different if McCain was voted in? Of course not! People would go crazy for him too. If you aren't going to get head over heels excited about your candidate winning, why would you vote for him?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
AE ummmm no I don't see where Bruce explained anything differently than I did. I quoted bible verses to you, I didn't just say because of the bible. If I am a christian that based my beliefs according to the bible then why would I change the way I feel about it even with one billon children? Why do you keep bringing that up? I said in the beginning of our conversation that I thought being gay was a choice, same as Bruce said, I don't see you questioning him on it. Like I said, Bruce is a male and that is why I believe that you find it easier to talk to him than to me because I am a woman. Don't you think? Can you not bring yourself to get into a pissing contest with a man?
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Bruce you know what AE response will be to Obama, he will be the hero if he can get gay marriage legalized. lmao that is all they care about...
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Don't pretend to know anything about me or my political beliefs. I don't pretend to know anything about you other than what you have posted here so don't assume anything about me.
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"why would I change the way I feel about it even with one billon children?"
Oh...I don't know. I would think that any normal person that believes something written by men in a book that is obviously not true as evidenced by 1 billion happy children would be more than happy to consider the idea that they are wrong.
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"I said in the beginning of our conversation that I thought being gay was a choice, same as Bruce said, I don't see you questioning him on it."
Pay attention. I never questioned either of you about your belief that being gay is a choice. That is not even the topic of discussion with me. Mine has always been about the children.
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"Bruce is a male and that is why I believe that you find it easier to talk to him than to me because I am a woman."
When your argument fails, you bring in sexism. Wow.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Would you like to see me "get in a pissing contest with a man"? Follow the link that I posted above where we were talking about long comment threads. It's incredibly long because of our "pissing contest". It's so sad that you would resort to accusations of sexism.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Why is that so sad, that is basically the topic of this conversation. Ok AE can I at least get a hug from you before I walk away? I am really tired of this...it is getting boring to me. I give up, just this once, I will give up on you ever understanding that I will not change my beliefs even though you say you have not asked me to, yet you still keep saying how if there were one billon children....I still would not. Why???? I will tell you why, I am not 13, do you think this is my first debate with someone on this issue, no it is not.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Like I mentioned waayyy earlier I have a family members that are gay, so I have been there and done all that explaining, reasoning and and let me not forget to mention I have questioned it. Is this a sin, is this wrong, I have always came back to yes. So don't think for a second that my mind is not capable of being opened, it is and it has been.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Sexism is the topic? Wow. I must have dreamed up all of the gay discussion.
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I haven't asked you to change your beliefs. I have asked if you would ever consider it. Not for me but for the sake of what makes sense. It is so amazing that you think that I don't understand you dedication to your beliefs and that you STILL think I have been trying to get you to change your beliefs.
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"let me not forget to mention I have questioned it"
"So don't think for a second that my mind is not capable of being opened, it is and it has been."
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You have told me repeatedly that you would never question your own beliefs. Now you say that you are capable of questioning your own beliefs. I'm glad to hear that. This conversation would have ended long ago if you had said that in the beginning since it's the basis of what we have been arguing.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Do you make a habit out of retyping what everyone says or do you just love to re-read what I say?
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Do I get a hug or what?
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
ps. I never said I didn't question my own beliefs, I said in the very beginning when you asked like 4 times who I take my questions to and that answer just did not satisfy you. Remember...go find it and retype it or copy and paste it so we can read it again. lol
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
It's called clarifying.
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"ps. I never said I didn't question my own beliefs, I said in the very beginning when you asked like 4 times who I take my questions to and that answer just did not satisfy you."
So...when you have a question about the existence of God, you ask God? Do you think that your ever going to get an unbiased answer? That's like asking George Bush if the current president is a quality one. If that's how you question your own beliefs, I can see why they have never changed.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Wow...finally had a chance to catch up...excellent thread going guys, it's people like you (AE and BW) that make this site so great.
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Candygirl, I don't mean to be rude, but you are older than 20? Really? BW, I love your name...and am glad to hear that age is "nothin' but a number"! Very interesting points on your side. AE, I just love ya.
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I will post about this thread in a second, I just wanted to post a link to another AB debate that I thought you guys might find interesting.
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http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/4479965
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Bliss I give you the gold medal for being a sarcastic *itch, good job! Congrats to you:)) Candy is 32 yrs old she has 2 children and five stepchildren, she has been employeed since she was 16 yrs old and living on her own since she was 18. She has seen and heard things that most could not imagine. Unlike you Bliss I don't brag on how many great children I have had a hand in raising nor do I belittle ones religion, nor was my answer to this question rude, it was my opinion and I am sorry that there is people like you in this world that can not handle somebody that doesn't agree with them.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Candy, if you are really done discussing this, why do you keep coming back? I personally am having a hard time debating with you. If you don't understand what we are talking about, it makes for a very boring time for all of us. Your consistent confusion is astonishing.
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I know it's off-topic but since it was brought up, I don't think it will be a terrible thing for people to go head over heels for Obama...not because of the need for change or anything like that (though you have to admit...it is time for some change...) but because while he won an awesomely huge amount of electoral votes, he only actually won 52% of the votes. So it's not like the entire country is in love with him.
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Please argue this if possible, I am Canadian and while I follow American politics closely, I am still learning the ways of your system. Plus, I always love a good debate.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
@AE I NEVER said I question the existence of God. I know there is a God. I said he is who I consult when I have questions about anything in my life. Never did I say that I question there being a God because I know there is a God, no need to question that.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Oy...I wasn't bragging love, I brought it up as a point in our discussion. Our discussion about gay people raising children...remember? And while I'm still not sure what your life history has to do with this conversation, I would not call that bragging either. I never belittled anyone's religion, and what exactly is this opinion of yours that I can't handle? Outlandish accusations do not make a point...what exactly is your point anyway?
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
You said you question your beliefs. According to what you have said, everything you believe is based on God and his word. If you don't question God then you don't question your beliefs. It's okay to question God. Any good leader encourages challenges from his/her followers. If not then he isn't a good leader and you shouldn't follow him, regardless of the consequences.
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Seriously, think about what you're going to type before you type it.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Bliss Obama won, the election debates for me are over. No I was not a Obama supporter, because I do not agree with many of his issues. I am happy for all Americans that did get to celebrate their victory last night and still will continue to do so. I think it is great that America made some new history last night and I was around to watch it happen and it will be something that will be taught and passed down to many children in schools in the future. All I can do now at this point is pray for Obama and for our country that he will be guide us according to God's will.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Candy...at the risk of making this thread redundant (yes, that was a joke...) I have to repeat what AE said about belief in God, but in reference to belief in the President. It's okay to question your leader. It is good to question your leader. Any good leader encourages challenges from his/her followers. If not then he isn't a good leader and you shouldn't follow him.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
okay AE and Bliss for the sake of argument I will give you an example of things that I question but it still doesn't make me question that there is a God. I have often questioned if when a person dies and goes to heaven will they know their loved ones that they knew here on earth. I do not question that there is a heaven though. I question if my loved ones that have died from sucide made it to heaven or if they went to hell.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
I question choices and decisions that I make on a daily basis. I am human and I have been brought up in church all of my life, I know what I feel and believe in but it still doesn't make me perfect, I still sin all of the time. I often wonder if my father that doesn't attend church and cussing like a salior will go to heaven because he his a good man and does alot to help people,he would give you the shirt off of his back and I am much like him, except that I love to go to church that is the one place and time that I ..
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
feel totally and completly at peace in my heart and in my life. I want others, especially my father and other loved ones to feel that same peace that I do.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
The questions that you say you have asked are good questions, but those aren't questions of your belief. Those are questions about your belief. Do you see the difference?
Asking if someone you love is going to Heaven or if they will know you when you get there is just a regular question. An example of questioning your beliefs would be asking if there even is a Heaven or if there is a God.
Example of a regular question: Will I go to Heaven?
Example of questioning beliefs: Is there a Heaven?
See what I mean?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO TELL YOU I DO NOT QUESTION IF THERE IS A GOD. I KNOW THERE IS A GOD, I KNOW THERE IS A HEAVEN AND A HELL. I DO NOT HAVE A NEED TO QUESTION THAT. DO YOU EVER QUESTION THAT THERE IS A HELL AND THAT BEING GAY IS A SIN AND THAT YOU MIGHT GO TO HELL BECAUSE YOU ARE GAY?
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
LETS SEE HOW IT MAKES YOU FEEL TO HAVE SOMEBODY WANT TO SHOOVE SOMETHING DOWN YOUR THROAT BACK ON YOU. DO YOU HUH DO YOU????
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Candy, that is our point. You don't question if there is a God, and we are saying that any good Christian SHOULD question it...and then decide. Otherwise you are not so much a Christian as you are a lemming.
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Of course we have questioned all of your aforementioned questions. That is why we are having this discussion.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
okay Bliss do you not think there was a time in my past that I wasn't a christian and questioned if there was a God. That is part of my PAST, is someone suppose to question something for the rest of the life if they had questioned it once? NO. How can you say what any good christian should do and you aren't one??? Do I really want to follow a pastor and be a member of his church knowing that he questions from time to time if there is a God. NO. I am not going to say in my past that I didn't question it, that is what all sinners do before they accept Jesus as their Lord and savior and after that there is no more questioning.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
What? I know that you don't question if there is a God. That's my point. You're the one that said that you question your beliefs. I'm trying to point out that if you don't question the existence of God or Heaven or Hell, the core of your beliefs, then you don't question your beliefs.
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Yes, I question my beliefs constantly. That's how I survive. Every now and then I will see something or experience something in nature and the possibility of God flashes into my head. Then I sit and think about it and I always come back to the same conclusions. I still question it though because thoughts can change with time if you allow them to.
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No, I don't question if homosexuality is a sin because then I would have to have sin as a belief.
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Who is shoving anything down your throat? I was trying to explain to you the difference between asking a question about your beliefs and questioning the beliefs themselves. I wasn't forcing you to.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
"That is part of my PAST, is someone suppose to question something for the rest of the life if they had questioned it once? NO."
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Yes actually. The minute you stop questioning anything is the minute you become close-minded and dull. Things in the real world change and life brings about all kinds of surprises. I can't imagine a point in life when I will stop questioning beliefs and just take them as they are taught to me. Why would anyone want to live like that?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
What's wrong with a pastor questioning the existence of God? Doesn't that just mean that he is looking for more reasons to follow and love him? What's wrong with that?
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Just because I am not a Christian does not mean I do not know anything about Christianity, Candy. I was raised with several churches, as well as three years of religion classes. I won't assume to know everything about Christianity...but then, it's obvious you don't either.
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"Do I really want to follow a pastor and be a member of his church knowing that he questions from time to time if there is a God. NO."
I just love this statement. It proves my point. (about the lemmings)
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
I am done here with you and all of this. This is pointless, totally and completly pointless. You do not have a clue about God or even any compassion about other people's beliefs or feelings. I want to live like that, okay? Me and alot of other people that know there is a God, all I can tell you is that when you figure it out for yourself then and only then will you understand. I can't make you understand why I will never question if there is a God, Heaven or Hell again in my life. Bye.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
You're right. It is pointless because you still don't know what we're arguing here.
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Actually, none of you KNOW there is a God unless he descended and had dinner with you. You all have faith in the existence of God but to say that you KNOW he exists without a doubt is delusional. Religion is based on faith not evidence, anyone will admit that, even the most religious. To say that you KNOW that God exists is to equate religion with science.
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I wonder if you're really gone this time.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Oy...I'm going to safely guess she didn't make the debate team in high school...
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
You took the words right out of my mouth AE.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
This was fun. I really wish we could have gotten to the bottom of the argument but when all parties are not listening to each other, it doesn't work.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
I know. It's difficult to get an answer out of someone who cannot grasp what the subject of debate is!
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Someone has just gone through and down rated all of my questions...gee, I wonder who that was...
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Yeah, that happens every now and then.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Candy. Just because you could have changed my diapers at what, age 12? doesn't make you good at thinking. I was brought up pretty well and taught to respect my elders so I'm going to show some restraint. If you don't question your faith then you won't know why you believe it. When you question the very foundation of your system of beliefs and arrive at solid answer it strengthens your faith. It makes it yours, not just things you've been told. I encourage you to talk with your pastor. Ask him/her if they ever doubted their faith. Every pastor I know has and arriving at the answer to their doubt is what makes them so fierce about their beliefs and effective at their jobs. It's fine to believe something strongly but refusing to even consider more information on the matter is dangerous. In fact, Ignorance: lack of knowledge or information.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
Now I'm not a betting man but if I had to guess what your first response would be, I'd say it will involve you having gay people in your family and how you've been through this and know all there is to know and that you aren't going to change your beliefs. That's fine. But if you're unwilling to listen to arguments against your beliefs then how can you argue you've heard it all? You can't hear without listening. No. You didn't argue you've heard it all, and no, I don't know you. Like I said, just a guess. But you seem pretty unreceptive to new information. I won't quote you because I can tell you don't appreciate that but if you want children happy, why does it matter if the parents that make them happy and loved have opposite or same sex organs. It shouldn't.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
I haven't figured out yet why she doesn't like being quoted. She fussed at me on another thread for that too. Strange.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Oh and also, being gay doesn't mean you automatically go to hell. You don't go to hell for sinning. Otherwise everyone would be headed there. Including you, THINKING something mean is a sin and God cannot tolerate sin. That's where Jesus comes in. You go to hell for denying Jesus as the son of God who died for our sins. Everyone's a sinner, including you and I candy. However some people are saved by the incredibly undeserved grace of God.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
Bliss I have one for you. Oh and thanks, I'm something of a Batman fanatic, I saw the dark knight five times in theaters and I dressed up in full Batman costume for opening night. Anyways, I was talking with a good friend of mine about gay adoption and how I've arrived at the conclusion that I'm ok with it. The only argument he could think of was that the adopted child could miss out on having a father figure AND a mother figure. I don't know anyone who has been raised by gay parents so I have no knowledge on the subject, but I know personally I'm thankful for the different dynamic of each of my parents character which I believe is directly affected by their gender. I'm not arguing that straight parents all are good at parenting at all, or that single parents shouldn't be allowed to keep their kids I'm just curious about your experience. Do you feel your siblings missed any sort of teaching because of their circumstances?
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
I know that was directed to Bliss but I have a comment.
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"the adopted child could miss out on having a father figure AND a mother figure."
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I see the point here but that same problem applies to single, straight parents.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Yep, I agree. I'm just looking for input from someone who has experienced it.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
No, not at all. While men and women have different anatomy, that doesn't mean they can't do the same things. Every time they needed someone for something, I was that person. And now they don't discriminate based on sex because of it.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
I love Batman...My brother told me he is the coolest superhero because he doesn't have any real superpowers. I always liked Superman better until he pointed that out...I can't disagree with that!
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
In reference to your question BW, could you give me a more specific idea as to what they would have missed out on?
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Well. I could give you the iconic father-son playin ball in the front yard. But gay people can catch a baseball. I think it's just mostly because my parents are what I know and it's difficult for me to imagine having another mom and benefiting from the same advice my dad has passed to me. Does that mean I would have turned out better or worse? no way to say so I won't pretend to know. I'm just trying to wrap my head around that reality. What it would have been like for me.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
My brother and I have a little running joke, based on truth...I am the mother he always wanted and the father he never had.
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I played out every part of both traditional roles for my siblings. I talked to them about sex, I played sports with them, went to school plays and recitals and you name it...I was there.
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I can understand that it would be difficult for someone raised with a mother and father to see what it must have been like for those children. Most of this reasoning however, comes from the traditional roles that are put on us by society. I can do both though...the things a mother would "typically" do, as well as the things a father would.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Agreed. Good point. I don't have anything to say to that. I've met "stay at hom dad's" before too. Where typical roles were reversed. I do feel that there are certain things only a man can teach a man, but that also doesn't mean a child couldn't learn that outside of the home, or that the child would truly benefit from those teachings. Love goes across gender lines, and if a child is raised with love and rules, theres a good chances they'll be ok regardless of their parents orientation.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
Out of curiosity (being that I am a woman), what is it that you feel "only a man can teach a man"?
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
how to pee your name in the snow, how to burp on command, like I said nothing immediately comes to mind of things that are of crucial importance to human development in regards to preparation for integration into society, but are those things that are part of a valued childhood by some? absolutely. Are gays incapable of teaching that? absolutely not. But I think it's reasonable to assume lesbian moms wouldn't teach that, I also don't know a great deal of lesbians nor do I have any factual evidence to support it. just me guessing based on my experiences.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
I'll give you the peeing in the snow but not the burp on command. I've known plenty of women, straight actually, who could burp better than me any day.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
You'd be surprised how many burping lesbians I know who can pee their name in the snow, lmfao...I did not teach that to the kids, but it is fair to say that not every father would teach that either.
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I think the only thing that a lesbian mother would have a hard time teaching a male child would be the bond between men...just for the reason that she is not one. I encouraged the boys to bond with other men, and answered their questions as any good parent (male or female) would, but the bond itself is something that has to be experienced.
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Many lesbian couples hire male nannies (or vice versa) in order to compensate for this type of thing. I think it is a wonderful idea.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Just for point of reference, I myself cannot pee my name in the snow. I can pee standing up, but I've got a long name and I'm just not that willing to try, lol.
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Hahahahaha, to be honest I've never tried to pee my name in the snow. However I think you might have just answered something for me. Gay couples hire opposit sex nannies to compensate for the loss of bond between their childs same sex? that's mostly what I was getting at but I also don't think it's essential to life. I appreciate the relationship I have with both of my parents and I think it has a great deal to do with who I am, but I could probably still function and make decisions if I hadn't had one of them. Not my first choice but not the worst either. Hey I'm debating this kid right now about how "Obama is a socialist" and how is socialist plan is going to be super unfair and such. I'm of the belief that feeding the starving, clothing the naked, and bringing hope to the hopeless far outweighs the right to own two lamborghini's because as I understand it money would be taken from people making 250,000 or more a year. do either of you have any info I can use?
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
I'm not very good at political debates. I don't have a whole lot of experience in that area. I do agree with your second to last statement though.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
I never had a male role model around for the children, but they seem to have no problem bonding with their own sex...so I must have done an alright job. Yes, a lot of gay couples will hire opposite sex nannies...a nanny is someone who is involved in the day to day life of your children and family, and after some time becomes a part of the family...especially to your child. Hence the reasoning behind why I agree with it so much.
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What is the link for the debate? I totally agree with you on the socialist thing, but that could be from watching waaaay too much Star Trek growing up. Hehe...
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
oh it's on facebook. it's a friend of a friend that is a pretty selfish guy from the look of it.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
I wonder if Candy unsubscribed from comments.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
Nope. If you look at her profile, you'll see that she is still receiving notifications of comments on this thread.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
psssst...I am back. Yes bruce don't worry about me I see all of the intelligent information that you have brought to the table. Now you entered here to defend me you said, now you are wanting to flip on me. lol Looks as though you have even changed your beliefs along the way and made some new friends. That is great!! I am so happy for you all. Heck I think I may have changed my way of thinking too, hold on...nope I didn't. See batman before you want to start preaching to the choir, live a little, okay?
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Get married, have some kids, go through real life, suffer some pain, lose a loved one, take care of a person while they are on their death bed and hold their hand while they die. I am not saying that you can not be a intelligent person, but I don't need you to tell me what I already know about Jesus Christ and what makes a good pastor. All I am saying to you is stop acting like you are some old wise man. I have been through things that you haven't even dreamed about yet.
by Candygirl on November 5th, 2008
Does anyone feel like dignifying that with a response?
by BMD on November 5th, 2008
Nope. She's faaaar too experienced. My life doesn't hold a candle to her. I couldn't dream of a good enough response for her. :-)
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Well. Candy I'm a missionary. Does that count as real life? I won't try and discount anything you've gone through because I don't know anything you've gone through. No, I'm not old. Shoot, I'm 20. I don't really even think of myself as a man. I'm just a kid. I have met a pastor or two in my day though. And I have experienced some pretty life changing events that I really, really doubt you have. But who am I to say I don't know. I do like to think I'm pretty good at thinking though. And to be honest, I don't really understand how having some kids, suffering some pain, or losing a loved one has to do with what makes a good pastor. We can get to know Jesus Christ without times being terrible. He prefers He be first rather than a last resort when we're struggling through great pain. He'll never abandon us when there are serious issues, but I'm sure you know that. You were twelve when I was born. You've got a head start. I don't really see where that makes you smarter than me though. I don'
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
I'm sure you've read a good portion of the Bible, maybe the whole thing. Did you read the part about where Jesus was killed by the jews because no one believed He was the son of God? Did you read about his few disciples that chose to believe he was who He said he was and got killed for telling people about it? See I think you would have been one of the jews. Set in your ways unwilling to listen to something new. Changing your beliefs doesn't make you a bad person. I know I'm glad those guys back in the day changed their beliefs and followed Jesus so that we could have the New Testament. Anyways, I guess my point is, just because I'm 20 doesn't mean I couldn't possibly know Jesus as well as you. If you don't need me to tell you about him, that's cool. Just don't pretend you know all there is to know, you're misinformed.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
oh sorry my first paragraph got cut off that should have read "I don't think I pretend to be a wise old man, I think I just think. "
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
Also, I don't really see whats wrong with making friends. I do believe the most important task our God charged us with was to tell the world about Him. Pretty hard to do that without making some friends.
by Bruce_Wayne on November 5th, 2008
Good points.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 5th, 2008
Bruce first of all I never meant for my words to imply that I knew everything I needed to know about the bible or about life. I don't and I will be the first to admit that.I apologize to you if I came across as sounding mean or hateful. I do not intend to, I have not intended to from the very beginning here. I did say some sarcastic smart*** comments to you Bliss and AE and others..I am sorry for all of that, I am sorry if I offended anyone and I really mean that.
by Candygirl on November 6th, 2008
I simply just answered a question with my honest feelings and done the best I could to answer all your questions and to explain why I felt the way I do. I wish I could have gotten my point across to you all as well as Bruce done but regardless at least you were here to help Bruce and thank you for that. I wish you all the best and look forward to seeing you around on AB.
by Candygirl on November 6th, 2008
I agree with Candygirl
by shady on November 7th, 2008
About what? We've been talking for quite a while now.
by Aquatic Eagle on November 7th, 2008
Wow! what an amazing thread. Even though I didnt quite agree with Candy's perspective, I started to feel sorry for her. Unless Candy holds some real influence in general public attitudes on this topic, Beating her over the head with the 'correct' understanding/interpretation seems more (perhaps understandably here ) emotionally driven, than sensible.
by ChaiCustard on November 9th, 2008
But surely the old argument of having straight parents and still being confused about my sexuality, all the more so for not having LGBT influences. If gay people have children, then their children won't be the only people with gay parents, therefore any gay children of straight parents can see that gay adults exist in their friends' parents, and vice versa.
Anyone who becomes a parent runs the risk of having their children hate them and the life they gave them.
by massivescorch on December 21st, 2008
It Candygirl's opinion was correct, then everyone would be straight. All the gay parents I know have straight children.
by Anonymous on January 26th, 2009
After reading all these comments, I have one thing to say. Candygirl, when your kids turn out to be gay, its your damn fault for confusing them.
by Anonymous on January 26th, 2009
"Anonymous," why don't you just stay Anonymous. You have no idea what you are talking about.
by Designeedawn on January 26th, 2009
Please don't be hesitant to tell speak your mind...
by Anonymous on January 27th, 2009
@Anonymous My children see and observe love between a man and a woman. I do not confuse my children. They understand what is natural to a child and it isn't natural for a child to see two women or two men together. That is what confuses a child.
by Candygirl on January 27th, 2009
Do kids and their parents sexalities really make a difference? I was raised by two very straight parents but I'm gay.
A friend of mine was raised by two dads, but they explained it wasnt the 'norm' from the start, making sure he understood that most people marry the opposite sex, not the same. He's happily married to his wife.
by kenn4eva on February 18th, 2009
I am beginning to see a pattern here, which is every gay couples children turn out to be straight per you all that are saying that. So on that note maybe it is because they have had enough of seeing two gays or two lesbians all of their life and they made a choice that they would not be like their parents. Good for all of those kids!!! I am glad to know that they made it through their messed up childhood.
by Candygirl on February 18th, 2009
you go CG!
by shady on February 18th, 2009
If you raise your children properly, they will be able to distinguish between right and wrong on their own. That's what makes personal experience so valuable. If the child grows up with homosexual parents and grows up to be homosexual and it feels right to them then there's nothing wrong with that. If the child grows up with homosexual parents and feels that it's not right and grows up as straight then that's okay too. What's good about both situations is that neither child is being brought up to think that their childhood is "messed up" but that it's different from other kids. What's wrong with that? Only a bigot would call this type of childhood "messed up".
by Aquatic Eagle on February 18th, 2009
Well you can call me a bigot then because I think it is messed up. No different than I could call you a bigot because you think I am a bigot for feeling this way. What is the difference? I can't accept what you believe in and you can't accept what I believe in. There isn't any difference in the two.
by Candygirl on February 18th, 2009
Except that your beliefs are harmful to others and encourage negative feelings towards differences. My beliefs encourage absolutely nothing negative.
by Aquatic Eagle on February 18th, 2009
I don't harm anyone with my beliefs and who is the one that gets to decide what is negative here? You speak as though you are the one that makes that decision. We all see things that we not agree with as negative. Again I will say that you are just as much a bigot as me, if I am one.
by Candygirl on February 18th, 2009
No, I won't agree that "we all see things that we not agree with as negative". Not even close buddy. That's what makes a bigot. I see things that I don't agree with as...things I don't agree with. I don't agree with most established religious views out there but that doesn't mean I see them as generally negative. What is negative is when you believe something and force that belief on others.
by Aquatic Eagle on February 18th, 2009
You said "My beliefs encourage absolutely nothing negative". That is per you, many others that may have the same beliefs as I do may believe that you do in fact encourage something that is very negative. Because it isn't the same as what we believe in. I do not force my beliefs on anybody, anymore than you are forcing yours on me.
by Candygirl on February 18th, 2009
Tell me, since you're on the other side here, what is negative about telling someone to be true to themselves and their feelings. What is negative about telling someone that they should live how they feel is right as long as it does not harm others, even if it's not the popular or the "normal" thing to do?
by Aquatic Eagle on February 18th, 2009
You, by agreeing that gays should not be allowed to marry, ARE forcing your beliefs on others. You are saying that they should not be allowed to marry because you believe it is wrong. I don't think there is a clearer example of forced beliefs in existence.
by Aquatic Eagle on February 18th, 2009
LOL this is so old and I don't care to rehash the same ole thing over and over. Last thing I want to say is I personally do not care if gays are allowed to marry or not, what I DO care about are children being involved in that marriage. That is how I feel and you will never change my mind, just as I will never change your mind. So as we done on this subject last year....we just need to agree that we disagree and move along. I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone, because I am not keeping it from happening, I have never voted on this topic.
by Candygirl on February 18th, 2009
im gay and obviously im for gay marriage but i do believe that two gay men or women should not be allowed to have children for the reasons that candygirl said in her first answer. For so long i have been treated horribly for something i had no choice in and when two gay people have a child they are putting that child in the same place they were in, the child has been tagged with the word "different" and it will change their entire life, two gays having a child is in my opinion selfish. one day when everyone is truly accepted i will be for it unforunately i dont see that day coming for sometime.
by gaytheist on June 10th, 2009
How is it selfish? They want a child just like any other married couple. They don't want more they want the same. I know gay couples with kids and their children have no issues like this. The world has changed.
by Aquatic Eagle on June 10th, 2009
Great that this thread is still continuing...I don't have time to read through all of the new answers, but I'd like to comment on gaytheist's (great name btw) last comment.
Does this mean that you don't believe that interracial couples should have children? Because that child will be treated differently. Or a kid who has parents who are midgets? I mean, there are a million circumstances where a child will have to deal with being different, I could go on.
That all aside, why is it bad for a child to face adversity?
by BMD on August 16th, 2009