I feel the need to say something. I've been a member of Answerbag (AB) for just about a year, now, and extremely active since around February, 2008. I have met a LOT of amazing people here, many have become, I like to think, good friends. I've participated in a number of long discussions, mediated in a number of arguments, "straightened up" some people who had "bad attitudes" to the point that they are well-recognized and well-liked by a majority of users, have been able to be a smart-aleck at times and make people laugh, and have had fun in doing all this. I tend to stay on the home page, refreshing and answering questions as they appear, eschewing choosing categories. Therefore, I may have missed some things. I also tend not to answer controversial questions, especially political and regligious questions - Not that I don't have my own beliefs, but that I don't feel that I'm that great of a debater, and people from all walks tend to be extremely passionate about their own, and will argue to the point of name-calling and bad feelings. I seem to have avoided the "trolls" and mass-downraters that friends of mine here have experienced. Maybe that's because of the way I Answerbag. Maybe it's because I try to stay neutral in major arguments I've been caught in. Maybe it's because I try, and usually CAN see both sides of an argument. Maybe it's because I refuse to "rock the boat". Maybe it's because I've been lucky. All that said, I've noticed, recently, a LOT of animosity on the bag. Logical and seemingly well-thought-out answers have been given, and immediately, the answerer is attacked - not because of the answer, but because of who that person is. I've seen people called "trolls" because they downrate (DR) answers they feel are "not helpful", which is the REASON for the DR option. I've seen people called "bullies" because they defend their answers with passion - Albeit, some of them add remarks about the person who called them a bully, counter-attacking instead of defending. I've seen vitriol and guano thrown in ALL directions, instead of disucssing the question or answer. To me, THIS is NOT what AB is about. I've also seen hundreds of questions and answers DRed BECAUSE of those bad feelings and animosity. My own answers, which, of course, I believe are ALL well-thought-out and normally presented in a logical and explanatory way, have been DRed. Does it bother me? Well, when I think it's a good answer, yes. And I simply comment, if I can, something to the effect of "DRer - Explain what is wrong with this answer", and let it go. I don't go searching for who did it. I don't (always) blame the questioner. There's no way in the world anyone but staff can know WHO DRed me, even if someone were to claim they did it, so how can I? And, AS someone comments negatively, someone ELSE could be DRing, so going by the claim and times means nothing. And there are the trolls; kids; "drive by" DRers who DR "just for fun" and to get a reaction; those who "get bored out of their skulls" and, for some reason, find DRing as an escape from the paralyzing numbness they are feeling; those who DR to get another answer moved up in the rankings for a question, even if it's not better than the top answer; those who rate (up or down) to move people around on the leaderboard - thinking it shows they have POWER to screw the site up; and those who DR questions because they don't like thinking about what the questioner asked. Of course, NONE of these are good reasons to DR - And, of course, it's difficult to stop this from happening, in a wide-open, world-wide, social, question-and-answer site. In a social board like this, I understand there will be disagreements and arguments. I understand that people will get "bad feelings" about each other. I understand that some people will feel the need to "let their feelings out". And I understand that some people will feel the need to DR, as described above. At AB, I find I have friends on BOTH sides of, apparently, various disputes - Bad blood; Those who feel they've been "put down" and bullied by others; Those whose beliefs don't jibe. I try to stay out of it, except maybe to point out that the argument has nothing to do with the question or answer. I've heard of friends on here getting into arguments OFF the board and bringing it here. I've seen what appears to be conspirital groups, taking things OFF the board, hopefully, to KEEP it there. I've seen friends of mine, who I've never seen argue before - though I can't say they have answered TOO many of the same questions I have - simply say "I wouldn't believe anything YOU said" or some such, starting an argument. I've seen good friends DRIVEN from AB, usually temporarily, by this and other things. I've seen misunderstandings blown COMPLETELY out of proportion. I've seen people blaming things on others based on am OBVIOUSLY frivolous question or answer. I've seen cheaters, setting up others for moderation points by putting EVERY QUESTION they ask in the wrong category. I look at all of this as detrimental to AB. Answerbag is a community of people who have come to the site to ask and answer questions. Some are long-time-ABers who have been here from the beginning. Some, like me, have been here a while, and haven't seen some of the changes others have. And, of course, some are rank amateurs on AB. There are those with extremely (to them, their friends, or family) serious questions; those who simply want to get advice from a disinterested third-party; and those who like having fun by asking frivolous questions. There are those who answer questions, seriously, humorously, etc. - Many of us really want to help those who need it, want to provide a source for future questioners to find answers and links to answers, and want to make people laugh. Unless those of us who attack other users, either through words or actions stop doing so, and agree to simply agree, or agree to disagree, AB will be dragged down to the level of other Q&A sites out there - the ones many love to hate - and it will either implode and cease to exist, or become much LESS than the "best Q&A site in internet-land". AB is NOT a game, though with the ratings, it has a gaming aspect to it, but PLAY HONESTLY. Cheaters usually end up caught, even if it takes some time. Here's what I see needs to happen to keep AB a viable site: 1) Look at the questions, and look at the answers - not who gave them or how they're spelled. 2) If you can give a cohesive and cognizant answer or comment, seriously or humorously, then do so. If not, then don't. And remember, not everyone has the same education level, same background, same experiences, same emotional reaction, etc. 3) If you can add to a discussion in a comment thread - seriously or humorously, NOT in an attacking way - join in. If all you have is hatred and virtriol to add, pass it up. 4) Uprate good questions and good answers. If you really feel the need to, DR bad ones, but realize that it causes bad feelings, and not everyone will agree with you. AND, if you DR enough, your "+Ratings Given" stat will be low, meaning others will KNOW you tend to give out more negatives than positives. 5) If you find a question or answer total nonsense, offensive, spam, a duplicate, or in the wrong category, flag it. 6) Again, DO NOT use WHO asked or answered the question as a guide - Use the question or answer itself. 7) Forget the petty bickering. Have discussions on the questions or answers, and QUIT attacking each other. It won't help any future questioner who finds it, and will make you seem worse than you actually are. 8) If the question or answer is good, say so and uprate (UR) it. If either are bad, say so. And don't DR because you don't like someone - DR because the answer is bad. That was the designed purpose. 9) DO NOT play games with points - URing or DRing to move answers up or down in the question's list; or DRing a batch of someone's questions or answers to drop their percentages so they will NOT appear on the leaderboard as high as they would if you didn't. Use the UR and DR correctly - helpful/funny or NOT helpful/NOT funny. And if it's not helpful/funny, it isn't NECESSARY to DR it... Leave the ratings alone, and explain WHY it's not right/helpful in a comment, and UR the good ones. 10) If you are currently in the middle of some of these "attack/counter-attack" things, LET IT GO. I don't know, nor do I CARE who started it and how. YOU BOTH are perpetuating it. How old are we, anyway? FIVE? If you're old enough to be on AB, you're old enough to ACT like an adult, at least HERE. DO SO! Try to have some fun doing all this. And if YOUR fun is causing problems, stay the hell off AB. Joel and the AB Staff have created a GREAT site, if we can all let it be that. It's addicting as hell. It's helpful. It's fun. Let it BE the great site we all know it can be and is to new people, especially those who come from other Q&A and social sites.

I agree with the statements you have made.

I am at my Advil limit. I agree. Some of the nasty stuff I have seen recently just blows my mind. AB is a website, it's a community, it's a lot of fun for most people. It does not pay the bills or kiss you goodnight :) Life is too short to spend it fighting with people here, accusing them of silly things, or exerting effort to seek out those you disagree with/dislike in an effort to take petty shots at them or DR them. ENOUGH! EDIT: I posted this as a comment to BigDaddy's answer, but I don't want it to get lost, so. . . One last thought, all this site disruption we've had recently cuts into the AB-Staff's time and money. They could be improving the site or responding to feedback, but instead they are having to deal with clones and other such nonsense created by disgruntled ABers. Food for thought folks. Amen BigDaddyBS!

i agree with all youve said.

i don't downrate anyone, if someone says something flip on a serious question, i state my feelings in a comment and either they come to their senses, modify their answer or they just tell me to fly a kite. i know there will always be idiots doing stupid things everywhere, but thanks for getting up on the soapbox Big Daddy, hopefully some will beenfit from your words of wisdom.

I agree. I have read some nasty arguments here recently and wondered if there was a fullmoon or something in the air. I do not want to see AB go spiralling down the toilet so I do hope that everyone will take the time to read your thread.

I agree that we don't need to DR everything just because we don't agree with it. Why ask for opinions if you can't be open-minded about it? But instead of DRing someone, I find that URing everyone else does the same thing (since the answers are ranked relative to everyone else). I think for the most part, however, ABers don't abuse their points (I know some do). But I've actually read some people complaining about others who UR everyone (not just DR). Of course, people don't complain when they get URed (or very few do). But I've been thinking, is what I'm doing also a problem?

I agree with what you are saying 100% Big Daddy. I never downrate anyone.I hope a lot of people read your statement and think twice before trolling. Good for you for posting this.

I agree with you 100 percent BigDaddy. AB is supposed to be a fun learning experience, a great socializing network, but when you get these real ***holes here who spoil it for all the good people, like the trollers and the argumentative and mannerless, crude types, it's horrible and makes AB very unattractive. I'm really happy to have friends like you on AB, however. It makes up for all the bad things that go on here. Just like working in a public service industry----the majority of customers are great, but occasionally you'll always come across a bitchin' ugly person who tries to spoil your day. I learned you can't please everybody, so just please yourself and your close friends and people you trust. I appreciate your answer BigDaddy----you put a great deal of thought and work into it, and you spoke for a lot of people here today, including myself. THANKS! Points to you! +++++++ :)

Thank you for posting your thoughts here. Very well said.

Very well said and thank you for saying it! I agree!!

Big Daddy, I fully agree with you. If someone needs information on the internet, like I did, Google refers you to AB, like it did for me. If I had come across such bickering when I first came here, I would have never asked my first question. I am now seeing that we need to keep this place the best place to ask a question on the web. And the best place to get an answer, and the best place to find a sincere friend. If thats not what we are looking for, then we are in the wrong place... I may find myself in the wrong place one day, I have before, and hopefully, I will walk with my head high. And make sure not to ruin what others have worked so hard for.

I think this could easily replace the current TOS of the site. It's a hole in one in my book.

I think you said it better then anyone else has tried to. I have found myself in the middle of some of these things unintentionally. I have found myself not asking questions because I know that the only ones that will bother to answer are the ones that are just out to DR and be hateful. I have been debating on signing off all together because of these reasons. I love the ppl on here that can remain neautral, but a lot of the time it only takes one neg to ruin the whole experience, and that is sad. I hope ppl take your post to heart and starts just getting along and stops the bickering. If you don't agree state why if you want and move on already, you will never change another persons mind about something they feel strongly about.It is ppl like you that I am still here right now.Thank you!;-}{{hugs}}

HOORAY FOR YOU BIGDADDY!! All the childish behaviour is exactly what we don't need here. It does drive people away (being driven away is way different to drifting away of your own accord). I think you are spot on, 100%, could not disagree..... If only there were a way to fix it, but I think you'll find that AB is a micro world, so all the crap that happens out there, happens in here too.

Those are all good points, but, you know, things have a way of balancing out, and, there will always be periods where things are nastier than usual. I just don't like it when AB is boring. That's all I really care about. But, even that balances out. It might be boring for a while, but, then things pick up again. If you are hoping for a perfect AB all the time...it's just not going to ever happen.

I agree with you about the downrating. But, speaking for myself here, the debates I get into are exciting, and I am rarely hurt. If I am offended or get passionate, I can start getting offensive myself - I am the first to admit that. But not until someone is offensive to me first (or they tell me something like 'yeah God does amazing things' when I've spent an hour writing a good, logical answer to a question - that offends me the most). But generally speaking, I like the debates I get into, and I value the peoeple who will protect and defend their opinion over the ones who take the moral ground and call it off. Change never happened without conflict. Revolutions never happened without conflict. Not that there is going to be an AB revolution, but you get my drift. I have fun debating/arguing. It is what I like doing, testing theories and arguing their strength. And it seems to me as though as lot of others on here do, too. To some, conflict is a terrible thing and needs to be avoided, and it seems that conflict is this way to you. But to others, conflict is productive. Conflict, from my perspective, starts the gears in my head - it's good brain excersise. Half the reason I love AB so much is because I can get into a debate like that with someone, and it'll be good, but I don't need to worry about reprecussions. But I do agree with you about the downrating.

I didnt read the whole thing . Sorry

WOw - I completely agree - you've gone to a alot of effort to make your point. WEll done!

Thanks BigDaddy - very informative, good for reference, which is why my friend Chris has added it to his profile XD!

BigDaddyBS, I completely agree with your statements. It's very well-written and very informative. If the community learn to work together and stop the mean words, then AB will be a more better site to go to for questions and answers.

Well put. I'm all about having fun on here. It's a great site with a great group of people. And meh, points are just points after all. Great post though BigDaddyBS. You reminded me of Mel Gibson from Braveheart. "They can take our lives, but they can never take....OUR FREEDOM!" O man, that was such a righteous freakin movie. Gah ADD, anyway, good post. =P

Big Daddy you make some excellent points, there are a few that I think should be expounded upon. You say that for the good of the community we should all take the ignore user route when targeted by a nasty cheating user. Good advise. I remember when Auntie Em left Answerbag the first time, I asked her why she was leaving and removing her content. Her response was “I tried to ignore them and they wouldn’t let me, they eventually came into my home via email and threatened my children.” “ I felt removing my content was the only way to make sure I left no clues to my children’s whereabouts.” Next we have Nevets who tried to start an anti bullying club so we, as a community could stop the bullying that goes on here. Do you remember how that turned out? He was attacked. When he tried to defend himself he was accused of attacking the bullies who were attacking him. When he pointed out that he was in a defensive posture not an attacking posture they said something like “mirror opposition.” Okay, for arguments sake lets say he was mirroring their attacking behavior, why then is he the only one that was banned for it? Why weren’t the original bullies whose behavior he was reflecting banned? Let’s talk about Momma Bear and Auntie Em’s banning. Momma Bear was banned for asking a question that one user decided was a personal attack. The question was removed and Momma Bear was banned for life or some such. The interesting part is the question was then restored? It was or it wasn’t?????? Auntie Em was banned for saying “Who did my response upset the Pamper’s or Depends wearers? Someone took this as a personal attack and Auntie Em was banned. ?????? The really interesting part of this is that the person who reported them was digging through their activity looking for anything, anything at all that might be spun into a personal attack if and only if the behind the scene information were known. Also this person launched an email campaign attacking both ladies and CC’d the staff each and every one. The fact that there were threats made in the emails and veiled threats made on the site to both women should have been enough for the other party to be included in the banning but that’s not how it turned out. One has to ask WHY? Why would anyone, at this point, turn the other cheek and or their cyber backs on the mean people who are hell bent on destroying and running off all those that they decided are enemies? As long as the troublemakers are afforded preferential treatment Answerbag cannot be a peaceful community and the smoldering fires will flash. That brings us to my last point. CL’s don’t seem to be working out. A few try to be fair, unbiased, neutral parties but they aren’t, they pick sides based on personal feelings and friendships and examples of this litter the site. As long as a few have authority over the many and that authority is abused Answerbag will be in a constant upheaval. My suggestion on how to stop the Answerbag war is for the staff and those appointed by staff the to police the site make more of an effort to apply penalties fairly. If two parties are warring p box them both not just the one that isn’t your friend. My identity is hidden to protect myself from what I have witnessed others go through and I think it sad that my words will be dismissed as those of a sock puppet and or a coward because I am attempting to do what you are suggesting we do. Avoid conflict. I suspect that this answer will not be allowed to stand for more than a moment. I think this, more than anything, will serve to illustrate that the problem is more complex than simply avoiding a few ill-tempered users. If we can’t all have an equal voice on AB, then it is nothing more than a feeding ground for a few, select, users. Personally, I still enjoy my participation on AB, as constrained as the atmosphere has become, and I hope they stop this run away train before it is too far gone.

Big Daddy, you are the sweetest. Did you notice Karl Malden just died? Here we go again!!!

Well put good sir.