ANSWERS: 5
  • No. "Mormons believe that one's salvation is based on such good works as baptism, good deeds, missionary work, and following Mormon teachings. In The Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, justification by faith in Jesus Christ is called a "pernicious doctrine" twice and he states that it has been "an influence for evil." {pp. 107, 480} Bruce McConkie once stated at Brigham Young University that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is "improper and perilous" {Church News, March 20, 1982, p. 5} According to Mormon theology, Jesus offered a plan of salvation in addition to the one offered by Lucifer. Also, there is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188. In Mormon temples, Jesus is not worshipped and is not called God. Mormons do not call Jesus their Lord and God. Mormons never address prayer to Jesus Christ. Prayers are made in His name, but only addressed to the "Heavenly Father". They do not go through Christ" http://www.macgregorministries.org/mormons/whatmorbelieve.html
  • First of all, let me apologize for the length of this post. However, in order to address the inaccuracies in the Mac Gregor Ministries piece that Alatea quotes, I must give you some fairly long quotes so that you can get the context of the statements. These quotes will show that the Mac Gregor intentionally distorted what the people in question wrote or said in an attempt to say that we don't believe that faith in the Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation. First of all, Mac Gregor quotes James E. Talmage as saying that "justification by faith in Jesus Christ is called a 'pernicious doctrine' twice and he states that it has been 'an influence for evil.'" I don't know which edition of Articles of Faith he was using, but the page numbers do not correspond to those in 1984 edition. So, I will give more useful references that will be universal. I will also note that the only changes that I have made to the text is to have moved the scriptural references out of the footnotes and put them with the scriptural quotes to which they correspond. I have also not included those footnotes that are not directly part of the quoted text. The first quote comes from Chapter 5 and the section titled Faith and Works. The chapter up to this point discusses the importance and nature of faith. This particular section discusses the relationship between faith and works. So here is the quote in its entirety. "Faith and Works -- Faith in a passive sense, that is, as mere belief in the more superficial sense of the term, is inefficient as a means of salvation. This truth was clearly set forth both by Christ and the apostles, and the vigor with which it was declared may be an indication of the early development of a most pernicious doctrine-that of justification by belief alone. The Savor taught that works were essential to the validity of profession and the efficacy of faith. Mark his words: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matt 7:21) "He that bath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." (John 14:21) The exposition by James is particularly explicit: "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what cloth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:14-18) And to this may be added the words of John: "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." (1 John 2:3-5) "To these teachings may be added many inspired utterances from Nephite scriptures and from modern revelation, all affirming the necessity of works, and denying the saving efficacy of passive belief. Yet in spite of the plain word of God, dogmas of men have been promulgated to the effect that by faith alone may salvation be attained, and that a wordy profession of belief shall open the doors of heaven to the sinner. The scriptures cited and man's inherent sense of justice furnish a sufficient refutation of these false assertions." As can be seen from this quote, Elder Talmage was not saying that faith is not important or necessary. He was say that faith all by itself is not sufficient for salvation. This is a topic that has been sufficiently beat around on this site. So I am not going to write anymore about it here. The point is to show that Mac Gregor has grossly misrepresented what Elder Talmage wrote. The second quote is from Appendix 5 sections 2 & 3. "2. The Sectarian Dogma of Justification by Faith Alone has exercised an influence for evil. The idea upon which this pernicious doctrine was founded was at first associated with that of an absolute predestination, by which man was foredoomed to destruction, or to an undeserved salvation. Thus, Luther taught as follows: 'The excellent, infallible, and sole preparation for grace is the eternal election and predestination of God.' 'Since the fall of man, free will is but an idle word.' 'A man who imagines to arrive at grace by doing all that he is able to do, adds sin to sin, and is doubly guilty.' 'That man is not justified who performs many works; but he who without works has much faith in Christ.' (For these and other doctrines of the so-called 'Reformation,' see D'Aubigne's History of the Reformation, vol. 1, pp. 82, 83, 119, 122.) In Miller's Church History (vol. 4, p. 514) we read: 'The point which the reformer [Luther] had most at heart in all his labors, contests, and dangers, was the justification by faith alone.' Melanchthon voices the doctrine of Luther in these words: 'Man's justification before God proceeds from faith alone. This faith enters man's heart by the grace of God alone;' and further, 'As all things which happen, happen necessarily according to the divine predestination, there is no such thing as liberty in our wills' (D'Aubigne, vol. 3, p. 340). It is true that Luther strongly denounced and vehemently disclaimed responsibility for the excesses to which this teaching gave rise, yet he was not less vigorous in proclaiming the doctrine. Note his words: 'I, Doctor Martin Luther, unworthy herald of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, confess this article, that faith alone without works justifies before God; and I declare that it shall stand and remain forever in despite of the emperor of the Romans, the emperor of the Turks, the emperor of the Persians-in spite of the pope and all the cardinals, with the bishops, priests, monks, and nuns-in spite of kings, princes, and nobles, and in spite of all the world and of the devils themselves; and that if they endeavor to fight against this truth they will draw the fires of hell upon their heads. This is the true and holy gospel, and the declaration of me, Doctor Luther, according to the teachings of the Holy Ghost' (D'Aubigne, vol. 1, p. 70). It should be remembered, however, that Luther, and even the most pronounced contenders for the doctrine of justification by faith, affirmed the necessity of sanctification as well as justification. Fletcher, End of Religious Controversy, p. 90, illustrates the vicious extreme to which this evil doctrine led, by accusing one of its adherents with having said: 'Even adultery and murder do not hurt the pleasant children, but rather work for their good. God sees no sin in believers, whatever sin they may commit. * * * It is a most pernicious error of the schoolmen to distinguish sins according to the fact, and not according to the person. Though I blame those who say, let us sin that grace may abound, yet adultery, incest, and murder, shall upon the whole, make me holier on earth, and merrier in heaven.' "A summary of the mediaeval controversy regarding the means of grace, including the doctrines of Luther and others, is presented in Roberts' Outlines of Ecclesiastical History, part 3, section 2, to which the student is referred. The quotations given above are incorporated therein. "3. Faith Includes Works-By isolating certain passages of scripture and regarding them as though they are complete in themselves some readers have assumed inconsistency if not contradiction to exist. Paul has been misrepresented as a proponent of the sufficiency of faith without works, and James has been cited in opposition. Compare Rom. 4:25; 9:11; Gal. 2:16; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5, with James 1:22, 23; 2:14-26. Paul specifies the outward forms and ceremonies of the Mosaic law, which had been superseded by the higher requirements of the Gospel, as unessential works. James speaks of actual effort and effective deeds as the works that result from true faith in God and His requirements. But after all, the apparent differences lie in the words and not in the spirit or the fact. The following note by Elder J. M. Sjodahl of the Church Historian's Office is instructive and in point: 'If we comprehend fully the meaning in which the authors of the scriptures use the word 'faith' we shall see that there is no difference in meaning between true faith and works of faith. In the Bible the two terms mean the same thing. James does not contradict Paul. For, to 'believe' is to live by the laws of the gospel. The verbs credere and vivere are synonymous, since faith without works is dead. That is the teaching of James, and Paul certainly does not teach salvation by means of dead faith.'" Once again it is the doctrine of justification by faith alone that Elder Talmage is condemning. He is not saying that faith is not necessary and I think that he makes some pretty good points about the extremes to which the idea that we only need to believe in Jesus to be saved can ultimately lead. Finally, we have the reference to a talk that was given by Bruce R. McConkie. The talk in its entirety can be found on their web site (http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6843&x=55&y=6; Thanks to one of the librarians at the Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University, for finding this one for me. I don't have permission to use his/her name, so I shan't.). I am including the section before the one in question so that you can see that once again Mac Gregor has misrepresent what was actually said. "Our Relationship to Members of the Godhead "What is and should be our relationship to the members of the Godhead? "First, be it remembered that most scriptures that speak of God or of the Lord do not even bother to distinguish the Father from the Son, simply because it doesn't make any difference which God is involved. They are one. The words or deeds of either of them would be the words and deeds of the other in the same circumstance. "Further, if a revelation comes from, or by the power of the Holy Ghost, ordinarily the words will be those of the Son, though what the Son says will be what the Father would say, and the words may thus be considered as the Father's. Thus any feelings of love, praise, awe, or worship that may fill our hearts when we receive the divine words will be the same no matter who is thought or known to be the author of them. "And yet we do have a proper relationship to each member of the Godhead, in part at least because there are separate and severable functions which each performs, and also because of what they as one Godhead have done for us. "Our relationship with the Father is supreme, paramount, and preeminent over all others. He is the God we worship. It is his gospel that saves and exalts. He ordained and established the plan of salvation. He is the one who was once as we are now. The life he lives is eternal life, and if we are to gain this greatest of all the gifts of God, it will be because we become like him. "Our relationship with the Father is one of parent and child. He is the one who gave us our agency. It was his plan that provided for a fall and an atonement. And it is to him that we must be reconciled if we are to gain salvation. He is the one to whom we have direct access by prayer, and if there were some need--which there is not!--to single out one member of the Godhead for a special relationship, the Father, not the Son, would be the one to choose. "Our relationship with the Son is one of brother or sister in the premortal life and one of being led to the Father by him while in this mortal sphere. He is the Lord Jehovah who championed our cause before the foundations of the earth were laid. He is the God of Israel, the promised Messiah, and the Redeemer of the world. "By faith we are adopted into his family and become his children. We take upon ourselves his name, keep his commandments, and rejoice in the cleansing power of his blood. Salvation comes by him. From Creation's dawn, as long as eternity endures, there neither has been nor will be another act of such transcendent power and import as his atoning sacrifice. "We do not have a fraction of the power we need to properly praise his holy name and ascribe unto him the honor and power and might and glory and dominion that is his. He is our Lord, our God, and our King. "Our relationship with the Holy Spirit is quite another thing. This holy personage is a Revelator and a Sanctifier. He bears record of the Father and the Son. He dispenses spiritual gifts to the faithful. Those of us who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost have the right to his constant companionship. "And again, if it were proper--and I repeat, it is not!--to single out one member of the Godhead for some special attention, we might well conclude that member should be the Holy Ghost. We might well adopt as a slogan: Seek the Spirit. The reason of course is that the sanctifying power of the Spirit would assure us of reconciliation with the Father. And any person who enjoys the constant companionship of the Holy Spirit will be in complete harmony with the divine will in all things. "Heresies among Us "Now, in spite of all these truths, which ought to be obvious to every spiritually enlightened person, heresies rear their ugly heads among us from time to time.... "There are yet others who have an excessive zeal which causes them to go beyond the mark. Their desire for excellence is inordinate. In an effort to be truer than true they devote themselves to gaining a special, personal relationship with Christ that is both improper and perilous. "I say perilous because this course, particularly in the lives of some who are spiritually immature, is a gospel hobby which creates an unwholesome holier-than-thou attitude. In other instances it leads to despondency because the seeker after perfection knows he is not living the way he supposes he should." (I did take out a few paragraphs near the end of this quote because they were not pertinent to this discussion.) As can be seen from this quote, Elder McConkie was not saying that we should not have faith in Christ nor was he saying that we should not have a relationship with the various members of the God Head. What he was warning about was taking this search for a relationship with Deity to the point at which we either become lifted up in our pride (i.e. holier than thou) or that we become sunk in despair because we are incapable of achieving perfection in this life. (If you ask me, this is good advice no matter what your faith.) The rest of the quote from Mac Gregor deals with things that have been dealt with elsewhere in this part of the forums. So, I am not going to address them here. The point is to show that Mac Gregor took just very small portions of what these two men wrote or said and twisted them to the point of saying something completely different than what was actually said. One commentator on one of my Brother's answers asked how something can be technically true and yet be false. Well this is a good example of just that. It is technically true that Talmage and McConkie wrote and said what is in the quotation marks, but Mac Gregor's interpretation of those remarks twists them into lies. In closing, let me just state that I know that Jesus is the Son of God, the Savior of the world, and that He did die for our sins. I also know that there is no way to return to the Father except through the sacrifice that Jesus made for all of us. This is what all true prophets have taught from the time of Adam to the present. This is also what the Holy Ghost whispers to my soul. I testify of this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
  • In Mormonism Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers, this is a very different Jesus than the Jesus of the christian, so that Jesus is not the Jesus of the bible and thus there is no salvation in him.
  • We believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and that he suffered for our sins, the consequences of sins, and our trials. We will all live again (Immortality), whether we were righteous or wicked. We will live with Christ and God the Father (Eternal Life) based on if we accept him and keep his commandments. "For we know that it is by grace we are saved [by Jesus Christ], after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23) "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26) You can go to mormon.org and ask representatives of the LDS Church questions.
  • Absolutely we do! However there is something everyone else needs to know about this subject. Jesus did come into the world to pay for the sins of the world, BUT, ONLY THOSE who, 1. Have Faith in Jesus Christ. 2.Repent of all their sins. 3.Are Baptized, as Jesus was, by one holding the Priesthood from God. 4.Receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, by the laying on of hands, by one holding the same Priesthood as the Apostles. Will be saved in the Kingdom of God! These are not my words, these are the words of Jesus Christ, as he directed his Apostles anciently. Acts 2;38.."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." I know there are some Churches who claim you only need to pray a sinners prayer and accept Jesus into your heart and your sins are forgiven and you are Saved! However, that is not true. The Bible clearly states that Baptism is for the remission of sins. Even though Jesus has the authority to remit sins, under special occasions, he is not going to circumvent his own doctrine. His Gospel, which he taught his disciples, says that sins are washed away through Baptism, after receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost. There are no short cuts to heaven. Everyone must comply to the same ordinances that Jesus required of everyone in his time. Even Jesus himself had to be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost before he could enter the kingdom of God,(His Church). He may have forgiven sins at times but they still had to be Baptized and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, by one holding the Priesthood. Jesus would not and could not go against his own Gospel standards. It is only man's teachings that make him appear to be inconsistent. So even though Jesus died for the sins of all of mankind, all of mankind will not comply with his requirements and therefore will not be saved in the kingdom of God. Although this is hard for some of you to accept, it, none the less is true...Later

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