There is no mention of this allegedly theft in any secular newspaper. The Arizona Republic covers the distribution of the anti-mormon DVD, but nada about Mormons gathering them up. The DVD in question is decidedly anti-mormon and attacks us. It does not promote an alternative. Removing that DVD from the front door does not attack others' religious beliefs, nor does it force anyone into Mormonism.

No. . The logic of your question escapes me. Loss of the documentaries does not force our beliefs on anyone. Loss of the documentaries does not attack the beliefs of other religions. . Most disturbing however is the sly insinuation hidden in this question that this was a theft carried out by the LDS people under instructions from the Church leaders.

I note that the only source that you cite for this alleged incident is Concerned Christians. You do not cite any other independent sources. Personally, given the nature of Concerned Christians, I have no reason to believe any accusation that they may make. So, unless you can provide a supporting sources, I am going to just chalk this up as just another one of their gratuitous assertions.

Why don't you guys just start a HOLY war!! Then we can have some more relegious killing in the name of "God"

Got Mountain Meadows?

HERE ARE THE PARTICULARS RELATIVE TO THIS QUESTION: mormon missionaries stoop to theft Written by Bob Betts http://www.concernedchristians.com/ On the Saturday morning of September 12th, 2009, volunteers from Concerned Christians went door to door in a neighborhood near to where a Mormon temple is soon to be built in Gilbert, Arizona, to distribute door hangers containing the DVD entitled, Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith. It is the same DVD which was distributed a couple of years ago in several states, including Arizona, and especially in Utah. Several local areas in Phoenix’s southeast valley received them, specifically Mesa, Tempe, and Gilbert. As reported to us by a resident in the Gilbert neighborhood, a few minutes after our volunteers completed their distribution, Mormon missionaries went through that same neighborhood and removed those DVDs. We don’t know if these missionaries acted on their own, or were put up to it by their superior(s). Such an act is not just unethical, but larceny. Such an act also reflects on the LDS doctrine of agency, whereby the Mormon religion teaches free choice. In the LDS teaching manual, Gospel Principles, chapter 4 is entitled, “FREEDOM TO CHOOSE.” After quoting the LDS scripture, “Thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee” (Moses 3:17, in Pearl of Great Price), Mormons are taught, “God has told us through his prophets that we are free to choose between good and evil. It is apparent that the Mormon missionaries were using their freedom of choice to do evil, whether acting on their own or choosing to do as they were told by their leadership. At the same time, they violated the agency of those Gilbert residents who should have had the chance to exercise their own freedom to choose whether or not to view the DVD, and whether or not to believe and agree with the message of the DVD. Is the LDS religion so threatened by such a challenge to Joseph Smith’s teachings that they must resort to stealing, even in violation of their own doctrine of the “freedom to choose”? Concerned Christians is considering its options of response. Legal action will not be taken this time. Another distribution is being considered; only next time, with video camera wielding guards, stationed around the neighborhoods. I’m sure the Mormon religion would not want such an exposure of this practice in the media, on YouTube or at the Maricopa County Attorney General's office. To view this feared DVD that the LDS missionaries and/or LDS leadership don't want Gilbert residents to see, go to the main menu item near the bottom of the left column, "watch, listen, learn." NOTE: I have embedded the DVD below or you can use this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6TUpblOheI&feature=player_embedded

UPDATE 9/25/2009 From Bob Betts, General Manager, Concerned Christians: We crafted a kind, but firm letter to the Mission President, emphasizing the points of the illegality of the missionary's action and the violation of people's agency. We told him that in the spirit of Christian love and grace, we would not press charges, nor seek compensation for the stolen DVDs. We told him that, in order to protect our investment (in the DVDs) and the service we provide to disenfranchised LDS and non-LDS, that next time we would have spotters with video cameras. We asked him to inform the missionaries within his territory, of the unacceptable violations they committed, and thanked him in advance for seeing to it that this does not re-occur. Interestingly, I got a call yesterday afternoon from the Christian man who observed the missionary's actions in his neighborhood. He elaborated that he observed them looking around as they went door to door to remove the DVDs, to see if anyone was watching them. He said they definitely looked like they knew that what they were doing was wrong. He said that, although he did not confront them (but now wishes he had), he made eye-contact with them and gave them a disapproving look. He said they looked guiltily back at him. But, since he was leaving to attend to personal business, he drove away, and they continued to steal DVDs. And, FYI, we WILL eventually go back to the same neighborhood to re-distribute the DVDs. The temple will not be completed for a couple of years. We intend to distribute them to all neighborhoods immediately surrounding the temple location. http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&catid=3&id=81451#81451

I am not sure if the missionaries' activities would count as theft. Concerned Christians relinquished ownership of the DVDs the moment they left them on the porches. The DVDs were not the property of the residents until they solicited them or received them. The missionaries' actions were akin to removing those menus restaurants plaster the streets with. It is up to individual residents to decide what legal action, if any, to take. If Concerned Christians wants to legally protect the DVDs, they should send them through the postal service (tampering with the mail is a federal offense) or deliver to people who actually solicit the DVD.

So one Christian organization was spamming an entire community with a hateDVDs about another Christian church. Shall we call it a hate-crime ? Nah, careful lawyers will have already vetted that possibility, and made plans to get the maximum publicity from it. Shall we call it SPAM and prosecute them as spammers ? Nah. The business community would rise up in arms seeing it as an attack on their God-given right to send Unsolicited Commercial mail. Shall we call it deliberate littering and procecute them for that ? This could work, DVDs are not biodegradable and if broken have sharp edges that could hurt the innocent. But it would need to be a class action suit entered by a significant fraction of the households that were victimized by this littering, that takes a lot of initiative and energy to organize. Probably more than it is worth. Shall we just pick up those DVDs and throw them in the trash. I guess that is exactly what 99.9% of the households hit have already done, some even had help in this from a number of nice LDS missionaries who removed the trash. regards JakobA

Actually it contradicts the idea that Mormons obey the "laws and ordinances" of the land. Since the theft (yep theft) is removing something from another's property that is not theirs. Sounds like theft to me! But it also violates the 1st Amendment rights of CC, as they have the right to spread their message. And the 1st Amendment rights of the homeowners, as they have the right to receive such information.(This was a Supreme Court ruling regarding JWs)

No, it doesn't. I'm not saying it wasn't wrong for the missionaries to take the Dvd's, but in doing so they weren't attacking the beliefs of any other religion and they weren't forcing their beliefs on anyone.

Wow, no excuse on that one. What those missionaries did was unexcusable. I'm glad to see the organization that handed them out responded with class. :) Going to the Mission President was the right thing to do. I believe the refrain is still accurate even though these two missionaries clearly show we all have some improvements to make. . I would have capitalized on the DVDs though by explaining who left them, encouraging them to watch if interested, and scheduling a time to visit and answer any questions the DVD might have raised. They could have turned it into a great opportunity to show that questions are welcomed and not discouraged. . I'm sure their actions were not known or sanctioned by their Mission President and I hope he took the chance to correct not only their behaviour but the thought processes that caused it. I think an appropriate response would have been to have those same Missionaries redistribute the DVDs they took. . As long as we can give more good examples of the refrain in action than negative, we are on track. :)

I haven't got a clue, but I rarely have a clue about these Christian sub-set against Christian sub-set questions.

UPDATE: MORMON MOM ADMITS SHE HAD HER SONS REMOVE DVDs FROM HER NEIGHBOR'S FRONT DOORS (clipped from the Concerned Christians Website) "confessions of a lds mom Another DVD distribution, more DVD thefts. Every distribution we've done, Mormons have followed up with stealing some. On the morning of Nov. 7, concerned Christians met again to place the Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith DVDs on people's doors, in a neighborhood adjacent to where the expected Gilbert, Arizona, LDS temple is to be built. As reported to us by a Christian pastor living in the neighborhood, a Mormon mom hired her two boys to go door to door, to remove dozens of the DVDs from people's doors. The pastor confronted the boys, and later their mother, and at that time she justified her actions because she thought they contained false information. As it turned out, she had never watched the DVD. Apparently, she had a crisis of conscience, since she hand-wrote the following letter to the pastor: 'My name is ----- & I am the one whos [sic] boys were collecting the DVD's from peoples [sic] doors. When we realized what it was inside the bag, I instantly thought "Oh great - I don't want our neighboors [sic] thinking we are a bunch of crazy weirdos" & I didn't know what was on the DVD, if any of it was true & was concerned that my beliefs would be represented in a very negative and distorted way. This panic overshadowed my belief that we all have the right to judge for ourselves if something is good & true or not & I panicked. I told my boys to get the bags off our neighboors [sic] doors & that I'd pay them 5c per bag to do it. When they didn't quickly return, I looked outside & realized that they had left our street (wanting to earn LOTS of money!) That's when I got in the car & went to find them. They were trying to be obedient & I didn't think ahead to the situation I had put them in. While looking everywhere trying to find my youngest we saw you & my older boy told me what had happend [sic]. I thought about what you said & realized I was taking away someones right to decide for themselves & was dissapointed [sic] in my actions. I had done what I loathe most about politicians - Assuming I knew what was best for someone else - that I knew better than another & thinking they wouldn't be wise enough to judge correctly what was best for them! It was a big wake up call for me to hear your words because we always teach our kids to be critical thinkers, to think ahead & question everything - then when I got the opportunity to actually SHOW them an example of that - I let my emotions & fear take over & I let it slip by & acted irrationally instead! Thanks for making me think. In trying to PROTECT something important to me, I was actually DESTROYING someone elses right to decide for themselves. You are an asset to the neighboorhood [sic] & Im sorry that I did not make a better choice! Keep fighting for our rights & all that makes America great. Thanks, ----- -------- If you have any questions or concerns feel free to call me or my husband ----. ###-###-####' While it was a nice gesture to write and explain to the pastor, her irrational behavior, and to apologize for her poor choice, Concerned Christians never heard from her. I couldn't help but notice her expressed concern that her neighbors might watch the DVD and think her Mormon family is a bunch of crazy weirdos. But, it never dawned on her that if someone saw her boys stealing DVDs off people's doors, the neighbors might think her family is a bunch of crazy weirdos. She also spoke of her fear and panic. But, of what? She admitted that she had never watched the DVD. The pastor informed me that he recommended to the mom that she watch the DVD. In light of her claim to teaching her kids to be critical thinkers and question everything, I wonder if she ever did. Send comments or questions to bob@concernedchristians.org" http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=401:confessions-of-a-lds-mom&catid=31:fp-scroller FINAL COMMENT: And my final comment is this: While I admire the fact that this Mormon Mom showed some integrity and depth of character by writing a nicely worded and respectful hand written note to that pastor there are two salient facts that this incidents validates that I feel are worthy of consideration: 1) Some Mormons clearly engage in "Thought Stopping" and "Information Control". If this weren't the case she would have at least CONSIDERED watching the DVD. Apparently her thinking was so conditioned by Temple Recommend Question #6 (6. Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?) that watching the DVD before judging it never even occurred to her. I have found that Mormons are quick to label something "Anti-Mormon" or "lies" so they don't have to deal with it. 2) Some Mormons are blind to the fact that withholding responsible opposing views and hard, challenging facts about their religion is in fact a form of forcing their beliefs on others. Further, the act of taking aggressive steps like the those taken by the LdS Missionaries and this Mormon Mom and her kids to limit these views is in fact an attack on the beliefs of other religions. Were the roles reversed and other religions were were trying to limit the right of Mormons to call their church "apostate", "unrestored", and "sincere but in error" and the other charges that LdS Missionaries levels at other churches I can guarantee that the Mormons on AB would be here exposing and pontificating just as I and others have done in this discussion thread. CONCLUSION: Other Churches allow Mormons to express their challenging, even offensive, views of their religion without challenge, attempts at limitation, or cries of "you're persecuting us!" Thus these non-Mormon Churches deserve the same rights, privileges, and respect that they give Mormons. Thank you for listening.