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by Theophilous on August 25th, 2009

Theophilous

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I am told that in the quran (5:51) it states that muslims may not take christians and jews as friends. I am told that a hudna or peace treaty only is valid until muslims are strong enough to break it. How then can Christians and Jews ever trust muslims?

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Answers. 15 helpful answers below.

  • by Theophilous on August 28th, 2009

    Theophilous

    To Rinky Dinky Do.

    My apologies for not being able to comment directly to your answer.

    As I recall the first crusade was around 1095 AD. This occurred about 460 years after the death of mohammed. Between those dates the muslims attacked and conquered many previously Christian countries. So if we are going to get into a pissing contest about who attacked who first, then the evidence seems clear.

    As for the Jews committing ethnic cleansing against the muslims with the help of the Christians, that is a lie. If you don’t want Israel to attack you, all you need to do is to stop trying to kill its people with suicide bombs and rockets. Put the effort into building a peaceful society where you are and you will find a helping hand outstretched to you. Continue your attacks on them and I will not blame them if they push all of Gaza into the sea and tell you to swim to Malta.

    The holy books of the Jews and Christians do not contain verses calling on their followers to kill those who do not follow their religion today. The holy books of islam seem to do so. The holy books of the Jews and Christians do not call their followers to blow up people who are not Jews nor Christian. The holy book of islam seems to do so. The holy books of the Jews and Christians do not sanction the making of false statements to advance religious objectives. The holy book of islam seems to do so.

    Your religion is intolerant. How many mosques are there in England? How many churches in Saudi Arabia? There were three Christians that I know of in Pakistan who were working at a hospital. They were elderly and had spent the better part of thirty years in the country providing medical services to the needy in either Islamabad or Karachi. They were killed because they were Christian and their killer thought they MIGHT try to convert someone to Christianity. The commandment that god gave to Moses was thou shalt not murder. Moses, whom you claim to honor as a prophet. Yet you kill against the commandment of God, in an imagined defense of your religion.

    And when not trying to kill us, you seem very happy to try to kill each other. Shia vs. Sunni. Ba’ath vs. anyone else.

    You make me wonder if Ann Coulter was right in her comments after 9/11.

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  • by Theophilous on August 28th, 2009

    Theophilous

    To Jesus is muslim, sorry i cannot comment directly to your answer

    Let me see if I am understanding your position correctly.

    A Hudna is a temporary peace treaty of limited duration. The Treaty of Hudaybiyyah was a treaty that mohammed entered into with the people of mecca. This treaty had a duration that was to last for ten years. After two years of the ten had passed a tribe allied with mecca (banu bakr) attacked a tribe allied with mohammed (banu khuza’a). Neither tribe was a signatory to the treaty of Hudaybiyyah. Mohammed then demanded that the meccans either 1) pay blood money, for acts they did not do, 2) break relations with the banu bakr, a tribe they had a history of good relations with, or 3) break the treaty with mohammed, and be attacked by the now stronger muslim forces. Attempts by abu sufyan to re-establish the treaty were rebuffed by mohammed.

    Doesn’t this constitute a violation of the quranic verse you quoted as 2:177 for those who are righteous?

    Your quote of 8:55-56 seems to me to be a condemnation of non muslims as they are accused of breaking treaties at every opportunity. This does not seem to indicate to me an endorsement of an idea that muslims and non muslims may have a treaty. Rather it seems to provide justification for breaking a treaty as it indicates that muslims cannot trust non muslims to keep treaties.

    Your quote of 8:72 indicates to me a command to assist those who leave their homes for the cause of allah. It seems to say that if someone does not leave their home, then you have no obligation to protect them, until such time as they do leave. I assume that this is part of jihad. It is only your duty to offer them help in the matter of religion if they so ask. The exception to this is you may not offer help “in the matter of religion” against a people you have a treaty with. How does “help in the matter of religion” place you in conflict with someone you have a treaty with? Is it a command not to build madrasses or is this “help” more of a military nature?

    Regarding verses 9:3-4. It seems to me that the first sentence of this verse proclaims that both allah and mohammed, and by extension all musilms, are without obligation to keep promises made to non muslims and a threat of “a painful doom” to those who do not follow your faith. And of those who do have a treaty only those who “abate nothing of your rights nor have supported anyone against you” will have the treaty obligations fulfilled.

    With regard to verse 60:8, while allah may not forbid the “showing of kindness and just dealing with those who have not fought you about religion, and have not driven you from your homes”, he does not seem to compel it to his followers. So then they may or may not do so as they will without consequence.

    Regarding 4:58, “allah commands to give back trust to those to whom they are due”. But this seems to leave open the question of are non muslims due the obligation of giving back trust? Or are they, as non muslims, not to be trusted?

    Please understand, I am not trying to be inflammatory. But in this world, where the muslim proclaims an eternal war between the house of submission (dar al islam) and house of those who are not Islamic (dar al harb) the idea of trust or treachery is one that has significant consequences. Not only to our generation, but to those that follow

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  • by Rinky Dinky Do on August 26th, 2009

    Rinky Dinky Do

    I'm told that back in the Dark Ages, the Christians invaded the Muslims and slaughtered them like rats. I'm told that today, the Jews are committing ethnic cleansing of the Muslims with the help of the Christians. How can the Muslims ever trust Christians and Jews?

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  • by basilthemouse on December 13th, 2010

    basilthemouse

    to answer succinctly .... they can't.

    taqqiya is another expression you might want to get familiar with.

    the only muslims who don't hate or don't want to subjugate you are the ones who don't know their scriptures. fortunately, at least for now, they are the majority.

    don't get taken in by muslim apologists who throw all the pleasant quran verses at you or who try to soften rather agressive verses by by either telling you that they are quoted out of context or trying to change meanings of words. what's more, the majority of those 'nice' verses have been abrogated by the later violent ones. trust me, i've been investigating islam for several years.

    you might learn something here, too.

    www.abnsat.com

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  • by JESUS-IS-MUSLIM on August 26th, 2009

    JESUS-IS-MUSLIM

    First, we should make things clear. In general, any peace treaty should explicitly states the time duration of its validity (when it will end). Some of those peace treaties are permenant and some have expiration date. The peace treaty which has limited validity time (it has a specified written expiration date) is called a 'HUDNA" in Arabic. This expiration date should be agreed upon by both parties (The Muslims and The Non-Muslims) and therefore, it will be known to all of them.


    Second and most important, Allah (God) clearly in the Noble Quran orders Muslims to keep their treaty when they make one (even with Non-Muslims) as stated in the following verses:

    "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing." [Quran 2:177]


    "Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.
    Those of them with whom thou madest a treaty, and then at every opportunity they break their treaty, and they keep not duty (to Allah)."
    [Quran 8:55-56]

    "Lo! those who believed and left their homes and strove with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah, and those who took them in and helped them: these are protecting friends one of another. And those who believed but did not leave their homes, ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes; but if they seek help from you in the matter of religion then it is your duty to help (them) except against a folk between whom and you there is a treaty. Allah is Seer of what ye do." [Quran 8:72]

    "And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve,
    Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
    [Quran 9:3-4]


    Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:

    {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}
    [Narrated in Saheeh Al-Bukhari, #3166, and Ibn Majah, #2686.]


    Also Islam is a religion of justice, in the Quran, Allah (God) has said:

    "ALLAH (God) does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. Allah loves just dealers." (Quran, 60:8)


    Allah has said:

    “Truly Allah commands you to give back trusts to those to whom they are due, and when you judge between people, to judge with justice....”
    [Quran 4:58]


    We -Muslims- should even be just with those who we hate, as Allah has said:

    “...And let not the hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety....”
    [Quran 5:8]

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  • by 23Skidoo on February 27th, 2011

    23Skidoo

    The deeper question is how can people who self identify as believers in myth and fairytale (delusional for short) ever be trusted by the rest of us?

    Those who kill because of their interpretations of these ancient myths say or because of inner voices should be locked up regardless of what kind of hat the guy talking has on.

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  • by mike_70 on October 12th, 2010

    mike_70

    In the words of the Ayatollah Khomeni; "Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless... Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors!"

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  • by thatsJustme on August 28th, 2009

    thatsJustme

    they should not...their God is not the God of Jews and Christians, their Book is not the Old or New Testament....:) we live among them ,same as always..but we will be persecuted by them.....

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  • by Moongrim on August 26th, 2009

    Moongrim

    Only the insane ones do.

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  • by trouble... staying calm on February 27th, 2011

    trouble... staying calm

    The smart ones can't.

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  • by Slartibartfast on February 27th, 2011

    Slartibartfast

    It is not as Friends, but as allies or "Patrons" that Muslims may not take us, as we are patrons of our own people.
    The Qu'ran actually states of Christians and Jews, ie 'The People Of The Book' (as opposed to Muslims, 'The People Of The Faith'):- "They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Qu'ran, 3:113-114)"
    Why would a Muslim be forbidden personal friendship with such as these?
    NB the Qu'ran does NOT promise 72 virgins as reward for slaughtering innocents! That bosh is an EXTREMELY weak Hadith (tradition as opposed to scripture), one that is considered Gharib as it has no Sanad!

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  • by Littlebig on March 25th, 2011

    Littlebig

    It's simple. It's forbidden to break the treaty with jews and christians... but as you stated, Muslims make the treaty when Muslims are relatively stronger.

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  • by sarahinez on June 14th, 2011

    sarahinez

    Christians are told to turn the other cheek when someone hurts us and to give to those who beg from us. Perhaps Muslims are no more obedient than we are.

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  • by Stu B needs no COAT for summer on November 1st, 2009

    Stu B needs no COAT for summer

    it may be impossible...

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  • by Soccergirl on November 1st, 2009

    Soccergirl

    Lets just leave the muslims alone. If someone does not want to be my friend, I don't care, I have plenty already.

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