Ahh yes... 43 seconds and my first DR... No thoughts, mind you, just a DR. . Nothing like the literally thought-less faithful. . DR away oh Brave Christian Soldiers... :-)

No. Snakes are exactly opposite man. This tends to indicate Master mind design and Purpose.

We also share about 97.2% of our DNA with dogs. That's the problem with producing empirical data on this subject - no such empirical data on it exists, hence the dilemma. By the same token, I cannot give you irrefutable evidence that God exists. So we're at a standstill....as usual. Nice try, though. +5

I consider that evidence of a common and efficient design/designer.

Actually, I think you'd have better luck just pointing out vertebrates have the same number of limbs and digits, though in some species some have become vestiges. Chromosome counts just isn't going to cut it with folks who aren't micro-biologists.

Proving evolution, which in my mind has been sufficiently accomplished by far more evidence than just chromosome counts, does nothing to disprove an intelligent designer. Evolution could easily be the medium with which God chose to paint.

By reading your question i'm assuming that because you believe in evolution you do not believe in God.I feel that this question is directed towards Christians so i will answer that way. Just because you(in general people) believe Adam and Eve is false does not mean there is no God. I personally believe in a God I just refuse to follow any religion because i believe it is all false. I believe in evolution and a God.

...True they are close, but they are not the same. True chimpz are close to being human like, they have alot of the same features there is no doubt we are close. But there is still so much a human has that a chimp has not been able to grasp...or will come close to grasping. We are not the same, and we will never be the same. Closeness is not proof. I will say, there will NEVER be proof. ...the day that there is, well...lol. There wont. We always try to assume that likeness has a link.

God's Signs in the DNA DNA is like a language in the heart of the cell, a molecular message, a set of instructions telling the cell how to construct proteins-much like the software needed to run a computer. Moreover, the amount of information DNA includes is staggering: A single cell of the human body contains three or four times more information as all 30 volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica. As a result, the question of the origin of life must now be redefined as the question of the origin of biological information. Can information arise by natural forces alone? Or does it require an intelligent agent? DNA is composed of ordinary chemicals (bases, sugars, phosphates that react according to ordinary laws. What makes DNA function as a message is not the chemicals themselves but rather their sequence, their pattern. The chemicals in DNA are grouped into molecules (called nucleotides) that act like letters in a message, and they must be in a particular order if the message is going to be intelligible. If the letters are scrambled, the result is nonsense. So the crucial question is whether the sequence of chemical "letters" arose by natural causes or whether it required an intelligent source. Is it the product of law or design? Since DNA contains information, the case can be stated even more strongly in terms of information theory, a field of research that investigates the ways information is transmitted. The naturalistic scientist has only two possible ways to explain the origin of life-either chance or natural law. But information theory provides a powerful tool for discounting both of these explanations. Both chance and law lead to structures with low information content, whereas DNA has a very high information content." The sequence of basis in DNA can not be explained by natural law because there are no chemical laws that make any sequence more likely than another. At the same time these sequences are so complicated that they can not be explained by chance. "Based on probability factors . . any viable DNA strand having over 84 nucleotides cannot be the result of haphazard mutations. At that stage, the probabilities are 1 in 4.80 x 10[[50]]. Such a number, if written out, would read: 480,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000. "Mathematicians agree that any requisite number beyond 10[50] has, statistically, a zero probability of occurrence (and even that gives it the benefit of the doubt!). Any species known to us, including the smallest single-cell bacteria, have enormously larger number of nucleotides than 100 or 1000. In fact, single cell bacteria display about 3,000,000 nucleotides, aligned in a very specific sequence. This means that there is no mathematical probability whatever for any known species to have been the product of a random occurrence—random mutations (to use the evolutionist's favorite expression)."—I. L. Cohen, Darwin was Wrong, 1984, p. 205. The study of DNA provides powerful new evidence that life is the product of intelligent design. Today, holding on to the hope that some natural process will be found to explain DNA is supremely irrational. The elusive process that naturalists hope to find would have to be completely unprecedented, different in kind from any we currently know. Although humans share about 97% of their DNA structure with some higher non-human animals, those last 3% are so vital that all of human civilization, religion, art, science, philosophy and, most importantly, their moral nature depends upon it. It is the 3% that distinguishes the theistic view of man's origin from the non-theistic view, as well as from the various societal and cultural consequences distinguishing each belief. As John Quincy Adams warned long ago, without a belief in theistic origins [in that three percent difference] man will have no conscience. He will have no other law than that of the tiger and the shark." ON ALL FRONTS, scientists are being forced to face up to the evidence for an intelligent cause. Ever since big bang theory was proposed, cosmologists have had to wrestle with the implications that the universe had an absolute beginning-and therefore a transcendent creator. The discovery of the information content in DNA is forcing biologists to recognize an intelligent cause for the origin of life. So, too, the fact of irreducible complexity is raising the question of design in living things. Allah (God) says in the Holy Quran what means: "And say: Praise be to Allah Who will show you His portents (signs) so that ye shall know them. And thy Lord is not unaware of what ye (mortals) do." [The Noble Quran 27:39] Also, Allah says in the Holy Quran what means: "We (Allah) shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth. Doth not thy Lord suffice, since He is Witness over all things?" [The Noble Quran 41:53]

Spirituality pertains to phenomena that are not physical.

HEY skidoo you know that most Creationists believe in Micro Evolution (adaptability) but most do not believe in Macro evolution (non-living material turning to be viable living organism, and a cold blooded fish becoming warm blooded or a reptile turning to a bird. we see adaptability all the time longer shorter more wirey hairs even no hair at all these are provable and testable (dogs)) but we do not see any creature (say dog) all of a sudden have a cold blooded puppy. or a horse that can electracute you (like an electric eel) these are extremely complicated systems that work only when all the working components are their and not when only some of them are there. These complex systems are continued in every organism even "simple cells" which we know are not simple at all but extremely complex.

LADIES & GENTLEMAN !!!! IT'S THE BATTLE OF THE MILLENNIUM !!!! CREATION VS. EVOLUTION!!! This is going to be a caged, no holds barred match, to the death!!!! In one corner we have EVOLUTION, who brings with it an assortment of weapons, including : records, fossils, actual proof, and even a bit of faith & belief. In the other corner we have CREATION, who brings---wait a minute, CREATION is pulling something from out of a sack, it's a....it's a.... It's a book ?!? CREATION has brought a book to use in battle. And yes a bit of faith & belief. It's unbelievable the way they are going at each other folks ! It's a battle royal. Who will win this grudge match? Who will suffer from their loss? We may never know. Let's watch & see, and pray ours is the victorious one, which ever that may be.

A common ancestor or a common Designer?

I'm an intelligent design fan- however, I think it's difficult to prove that it's the underlying- or any- phenom or factor in what's going on. Maybe you're smarter than I am (a distinct possibility) but I don't think I could convince a materialist that it constituted proof. Maybe I took the coward's way out, but when I converse about stuff like that with skeptics, materialists, atheists, etc, I represent any such ideas I happen to hold as "beliefs" rather than proof or knowledge. Because I can never get anyone to see my criteria and any spiritual phenomena I experienced as empirical data. I once was telling someone - actually in a newsgroup posting- of an odd phenomenon I witnessed that was a case of the spiritual creating a physical effect, and the gyrations and rationalizations as people (many of whom I personally like) tried to explain it away were something to behold. I found it easier to say I "believe" certain phenomena and occurrences. That way nobody gets pissed off.

Skidoo, as I cannot get the Commentary box to make changesof the scale I need, I am simply pasting in the Response article of AnswersInGenesis to Doc Mill's asserions. Here it is: "A Tale of Two Chromosomes" by Jean K. Lightner, D.V.M. November 14, 2007 Semi-technical Keywords * author-jean-lightner * dna Keywords: chromosomes, centric fusions, information, microRNA, science, Dr. Ken Miller, evolution, centromere, chromosomal rearrangement, information Evolutionists can be excellent storytellers. For example, Dr. Ken Miller, a biology professor from Brown University who testified against Intelligent Design (ID) at the Dover trial,1 tells an engaging story that he claims is compelling evidence for evolution. The problem is that because of his naturalistic assumptions, he himself is unable to distinguish fact from fiction, science from conjecture. Background Humans normally have 46 chromosomes. However, sometimes two chromosomes will fuse together to form one big chromosome. Centric fusions are where two acrocentric chromosomes (chromosomes with the centromere very close to one end) fuse to make a large metacentric chromosome (one with the centromere near the middle). It is estimated that around 1/1000 people carry this type of chromosomal rearrangement. While they are sometimes associated with problems such as infertility or serious chromosomal aberrations in the offspring, often they are asymptomatic.2 This is because all of the necessary information is there in the proper amount; it is just packaged differently. The tale of missing chromosomes There are many anatomical similarities between humans and apes. Our chromosomes are similar as well. We can see these similarities in the banding patterns of the chromosomes. One obvious difference between the human and ape karyotype is that apes have 48 chromosomes (24 pairs) and humans normally have 46 (23 pairs). Dr. Miller likes to tell an entertaining “who done it” type story asking where the missing chromosome pair went. He then points out the scientific evidence for a fusion event on human chromosome 2. There is evidence that implies a fusion event may have occurred.3 Human chromosome 2 corresponds to ape chromosomes 12 and 13. Dr. Miller states, “Our chromosome number 2 was formed by the fusion of two primate chromosomes.”4 Dr. Miller assumes common ancestry and the number of chromosomes is consistent with his belief. However, he misses other important evidence that contradicts his basic claim. Most importantly, reliable eyewitness testimony is more powerful than circumstantial evidence in establishing historical details. The Bible, inspired by the Creator himself, indicates that humans were created in the image of God and distinct from other animals.5 Humans are clearly distinct from other animals in cognitive and language ability. Occasionally, the ability of chimps to use tools or simple sign language is touted as evidence for their close relationship with us. In reality, chimps are not significantly different in these areas from many other mammals and birds (except that they can use their hands more like us). Chimps lack the anatomy for human speech. Ironically, a few birds have been known to use human language quite well, at least for an animal.6 Simple tool making ability is also seen in a variety of animals.7 While intelligence in animals is quite fascinating, it is still significantly different from that of humans and gives no hint of common ancestry. The similarities are much more easily explained by the fact that these animals all had a common designer who reused certain excellent design elements much like engineers do in their creations today. Observed patterns of chromosomal rearrangement Dr. Miller's enthusiasm about this chromosomal rearrangement may be tied to the older notion that such mutations are the basis for speciation.8 This belief was shown to be overly simplistic decades ago when papers appeared describing chromosomal variations which were not eliminated by selection. One intriguing example is a single species of rodent (Holochilus brasiliensis) where 26 different karyotypes were identified in the 42 individuals tested.9 Chromosomal rearrangements have been identified within many ruminant species. There are examples in both goats and sheep where individuals with one or more centric fusions are phenotypically indistinguishable from other animals.10 One researcher who studied sheep carrying up to three different centric fusions concluded, “It is now considered that there is little or no evidence to suggest that centric fusions in a variety of combinations affect the total productive fitness of domestic sheep.”11 So, the bottom line is that centric fusions themselves do not inevitably result in a new species. It is conceivable that some apes exist with 46 chromosomes. Yet these animals will be distinctly apes; they will not be “evolving” to become a human. If the observed evidence is really from a fusion, it is best explained by the fusion of two human chromosomes. A diversion from the real issue The biggest problem with Dr. Miller’s story is that it distracts the audience from the real issue. It is not the number of chromosomes that is really a significant difference between humans and apes, but the information contained on those chromosomes. According to the evolutionary scenario, our apelike ancestors underwent major anatomical restructuring to develop upright posture, speech ability, and an astounding increase in cognitive function all by random, chance processes. Such profound changes were never observed; they are inferred because evolution has an atheistic basis and assumes there is no creator. Despite the superficial similarities between human and ape chromosomes, there are important differences on the molecular level. There are many protein coding genes in humans that are distinctly human and are not found in chimps. Perhaps more significantly are the differences in genes that don't code for proteins. Genes have been described which code for microRNA (miRNA). The miRNA molecule is not translated, but acts directly to control gene expression. A single miRNA can regulate the expression of dozens or even hundreds of genes. A study of miRNAs expressed in the brain found 51 of 447 new miRNAs were distinctly human and 25 were only found in the chimp.12 The idea that so many genes were altered so that they are expressed in the proper concentration according to cell type and can effectively control the many different genes they regulate is not what we would expect of chance processes.13 It is more rational to believe that God created humans distinct from chimps, just as He tells us in the Bible. Blind to alternatives While the evidence for a fusion appears consistent with the evolution model, Dr. Miller implies that it is inconsistent with ID or creation models. He makes the ludicrous claim that the only way creationists can respond to this evidence is: “That’s the way the designer made it.”4 This statement reveals Dr. Miller’s inability to think outside his paradigm. As a creationist who finds chromosomal rearrangements fascinating, I can honestly say I never thought of that possibility. One possibility I had considered is that humans and apes (and perhaps other animals too) were created with the same number of chromosomes with similar banding patterns.14 Since chromosome numbers vary within created kinds, it is not in the chromosome number where we should expect the most significant differences to lie, but in the coded information. Although Ken Miller’s story does not properly consider current scientific understanding of chromosomal fusions or significant genomic differences between apes and humans, he promotes it enthusiastically to support his belief that humans descended from apes. Furthermore, he is ardently opposed to teaching intelligent design in the schools, claiming that it is not scientific.15 He appears to be blind to the fact that the belief that humans descended from apes is a religious (atheistic) one; such changes have never been observed. Thus, he is not able to distinguish between science and religious indoctrination. True science and the Bible believer Despite the misunderstanding and wild story telling of evolutionists, science is truly a fascinating and rewarding field for Christians who believe the Bible. The sciences were founded by people with a strong Christian worldview.16 There are still many fascinating questions waiting to be answered. For example, why do chromosomal rearrangements occur? It has been pointed out in the literature that they are non-random.17 Do they have a purpose? (Evolutionists aren't supposed to ask this.) Do they play a role in speciation? If so, how? Do they help animals adapt to new environments? Why are there times when they cause problems (i.e. some carriers have a high percentage of unbalanced gametes18 which results in infertility or abnormalities in their offspring)? How can they become fixed in a population? God's world is out there waiting to be explored. The truth is far more fascinating than fairy tales." She then places 18 references for her work

The bible itself offers a test for proving the existence of god. Kings 1, chapter 18. God gives Elijah a test for Ahab's god, baal, to determine if it is real or not. This is pretty much the nail in the coffin to biblical literalists. It's a test within the bible to prove the existence of god. So do the test, what happens? I bet you nothing.

As a physicist, I would say with 11 dimensions and 2 time dimensions, that your linear thought processes are entirely just that... linear. There is no way to properly interpret a higher dimensional aspect of creation from a lower aspect (our 3 dimensions). One could argue that God did in fact create the world in 7 days and created man, only that to preserve the laws of physics, it appears as though evolution is real, but in fact, may have never happened. Dinosaurs never really walked the Earth but had to appear to walk the earth in order to fulfill the law that it looks like we evolved? I know it may seem contorted, but really its not at all and valid to see it from whatever point of view you want to. The universe is big enough to accomodate all maps of reality (beliefs), but they are after all just beliefs, including evolution. You were not there to watch it happen as it happened...

As humans we are more closely related to a pig than a chimp. Our hearts, eyes etc. Pigs can see color. I know several people who have a pig heart valve as well as it functions just the same. Internal organs of humans and pigs are alike not only in size, but also in physiology. If a pig’s insulin is transferred to a human's body, they would not reject it because both are the same physically. The placentas are unexpectedly alike as well. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

The evidence of God is very simple with the answer to the question, Can something come form nothing? Think about it, without an Eternal(God) you can not have a finite everything else. Most scientist say the universe had a beginning. What was there before that beginning? The answer is God. You say and I hope I am correct, Man has 23 pair of Chromosomes and Gorillas 24 and that is proof of a common ancestor. Well I have a question, if evolution is correct, why does the lower life form the Ape have more Chromosomes than Man? Should not the simpler life have less?

Pig: 19 pairs Cat: 19 pairs sheep: 27 pairs gorillas: 24 pairs human:23 3 pairs leave the sheep and the sheep become gorilla then one pair removed by chance and a human shows up :) it simply proves nothing

As Jim said, it could mean that God (not a made up one of any Bible) chose for people to evolve from chimps and gorillas. And, if nuclear war doesn't destroy us all, who knows how far we can still evolve and if there are any limits.

Similarity in the nunber of DNA pairs does in no way prove evolution. Consider this:"Yes, the problem of language presents an enigma to the evolutionists. Philologists have come up with many theories but none of them have been so reasonable or compelling as to win general acceptance. A small bird, the parrot, can talk, although not intelligently; but an ape, with many physical characteristics similar to that of man—teeth, lips, tongue, vocal cords, and far more intelligence than a parrot—cannot. Why not? Because, as Wooten shows in his Up from the Ape, the ape lacks the needed intelligence. Noting a still further example of man’s uniqueness, Professor W. H. Thorpe, a leading English ethologist, had the following to say: “Man can manipulate completely abstract symbols to an extent far beyond that possible in the animal world; it’s on this ability mathematics is based. I do not believe that animals will ever be able to do mathematics. . . . Man has an abstract moral sense which can realize perfectly general moral laws—he can realize, in other words, the essential difference between what is and what ought to be and it follows from that I think, . . . that man is a philosophical, a metaphysical and a religious animal.”

I read the article twice and I find with Kenneth Miller as with R. Dawkins that the so called proofs of evolution are very speculative. Miller says "maybe the designer wanted to fool us into thinking we evolved..." The fact is that evolutionists don't want to believe in a creator so they use what is called naturalistic assumptions to give themselves so called proof of the "theory" of evolution.These so called proofs are very inadequate. The response given by "Creation Museum different interpretation" is very complete and it makes sense and it's devlopement of actual fact plainly shows that Miller as with other biologists use speculation and naturalistic assumption as a basis for what they are saying rather using scietific fact. The Bible record tells us that God is our creator and that humans are unique in that they are made in God's image and they have attributes that animals do not have. The Bible gives the order in which things were created and this is supported by scientific fact. The Bible also says that each animal form was created "according to it's kind" and this has been proven by scientific tests.The design in nature and the physical laws that govern matter and energy are clear proofs that we have a creator. Common sense helps us when we see what the Bible says at Heb 3:4,"Every house is constructed by someone but he that constructed all things is God" To think that simple chance or a blind force made this earth and all living things on it is rediculous to me.

I would say we have a common designer.

My take on this is that God is not a lab experiment and should never be reduced to such by Christians. Because God is Spirit, there is no physical and testable evidence to prove His existence and because I am not commanded in Scripture to prove His existence, I won't try. I will say this however, if you, with heartfelt honesty want to know if God exists, then you should ask Him. You are either open to the fact there is a God, or you are not. If you are, then sincerely ask Him to reveal himself to you. If you are not, then stop expecting His people to carry the burden of proof that is not theirs to bear.

Proof or evidence of evolution doesn't discount the existance of God. God usually has a way of doing things "scientifically." Just like the Great Flood (Noah and the Ark). He didn't just wave his hand and make the water appear, he had it rain for 40 days and 40 nights. In the bible it says that God created animals on the fifth day and then man on the sixth. It also says that a blink of an eye to God is like thousands of years to us. Well with that in mind, maybe when the bible says that animals were created on the fifth day and man was created on the sixth day. What if The Bible meant days as God would see them? Which could equal thousands if not millions of years to us. That would give plenty of time for us to evolve from monkeys. It says that God created us from the dirt. Well the monkeys that science says we evolved from were on the ground (aka the dirt) more than they were in trees.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7657333391410735923#docid=-6427602102763665672

People like you never find God, you just aggravate everyone else because you don't know what God is so how can you seek?

If evolution is plauseable, then why haven't all apes evolved into humans...did they choose to stop ???

And Imelda Marcos had hundreds of pairs!!! but .. I was not aware that chimps and gorillas wore shoes

I'm not a believer, but the opposite to asking for testable proof of God is to ask for testable proof that there is no god. Of course there is no proof of either, so it's a futile discussion. Evolution neither proves nor disproves the existence of a deity.

Funny thing about God. God requires faith, and faith requires no proof. In fact faith can only exist in an absence of proof. Faith is a powerful thing. It makes things true, when all sense and knowledge tells you it's impossible. If anyone ever provided proof of God, nobody would need faith anymore, and then God wouldn't seem so much like God anymore, would it?

Hares, potatoes and tobacco also have 24 pairs of chromosones. Does that mean that hares and humans are as closely related as humans and gorillas? Is this the origin of couch potatoes? Did the V-8 derive from the v-6 by random chance? Was there evolutionary pressure that the environment cause the v-8 to come about? Any intermediary forms such as a V-7? Couldn't this be better explaind that a designer instituted the v-8 rather than it spontaniously occuring on the assembly line?

It all comes down to this... Who (or what) caused the Great Bang?