Surely, we have studied many "primitive" tribes who have had limited access to our manufactured products, and homosexuality is present there as well.

"If there is a God" - and that's just it. There are no gods, and nobody has ever proven otherwise. The rest of your post is just home-school gibberish.

What utter nonsense.

Yes!

Who is David and jonathon again? Help me understand why gay isn't a sin yet there was a blantantly gay couple in it

Wow, talk about seeing what you wish was there instead of the truth!!! They were friends and teammates, soldiers.

It is always taken wrong the in the Bible there is no place does it say it is a sin to be a homosexual. But the Bible speaks against the lifestyle.

We are not to do harm to ANY people...but we do not have to accept their lifestyle...and we have an obligation to warn them of the consequences... 1 Corinthians 6: 9,10

"I believe that the devil created..." Wow, it's amazing how many adults have arrested development around Age 5...

But there are gay animals. Blame a f'd up society for that too?

The Clown fish and the Wrasse both change sex and are fertile under certain conditions.

Its not on society ITS A PERSONAL CHOICE! And so far no gay couple ever turned fertile to my knowledge! Worms are also hermaphrodites. But I find it a little condescending to compare them to animals and worms! Besides the fact people think and have a choice. Its more like adultery or child molestation. Sometimes you just need to be stronger than your urges and make the choice to keep your pants up! Its wrong! I don't just steal food when I get hungry or shit in the street because I gotta go! But its also wrong to judge others for not having the same belief system I do. Its their choice and so are the consequences that come with it, including the disapproval of others.

Molestation is harmful - an advantage used against another. Consenting adults make their own choices to work for or against their needs, the birds and the bees do not. They only demonstrate that life is full of things we have yet to understand.

Well if anyone wanted to compare to the animal world why not choose the bonobos monkeys? They have sex for enjoyment. And the lesbian monkeys use it to settle land disputes! Maybe that's where the phrase "Make love not war" really started. haha At least they are choosing and not being forced to change sex due to environmental conditions.

There are thousands of species in the natural world where homosexuality is observed and documented. Some people need to get out more, and actually read something other than your Bible.

So what about being with an infertile woman, is that against god's views because she can't reproduce?

There are several examples in the Bible about this. Did you not read those stories? Did they not support your narrative?

Did God curse the infertile Sarah? Or did he ultimately Bless her with an entire nation? Not to mention adoption, fostering, and mentoring.

Let's not forget SCHITT'S CREEK -- we'd have no Schitt's Creek, either.... and that is a depressing thought!

But he did in fact create the same idea of it, yes we invented the steam engine but it couldn't have been created without the help of god

No He didn't. That was man's carnal nature. It is a personal choice. And the consequences that come from their choices are theirs as well! Unfortunately its not just about them. Their choices affect their families and children as well. Nothing like giving each other crabs for Christmas!

You have no idea what 1 Cor. 6:9,10 are saying! you have never studied it and in no way does it mean homosexuality. This is what happens when someone listens to repeated lies so long they believe it to be true. Learn what it says in the Bible in the terminology of the times it was written and not as believed today.

Well, what does 1 Cor. 6:9,10 actually say?

This cannot be answered in a few words here. I would suggest you go to Amazon Books and order a copy of "God Is Not Homophobe An Unbiased Look at Homosexuality in the Bible" by Darwin Chandler (pin name: Philo Thelos) Basically it is dealing with cult temple prostitutes a common practice at that time. I think you would find this book quite interesting. I would suggest you read Royal Law of Liberty first as it will give you a good understanding of what Chandler is teaching. If you look hard enough on Google you can find these books on line for free. It took me over a half hour to find them.

You could also go to inkaboutit4u. com and learn many things including a piece on homosexuals that includes 1 Cor. 6:9,10 and well explains it.

You people quoting 1 Cor 6:9&10 need to read verse 11. The difference is the holy spirit. Those who believe in Jesus receive the holy spirit and are saved. What they did before that doesn't count. Those who don't believe are lost and what they did before that doesn't count.

"9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." You're wrong Dick! This covers EVERY KIND of fornication including Homosexuality. And Jewels has a very good point!

It all comes down to the words " some of you WERE" sO EVEN [ ONCE WERE ] HOMOSEXUALS CAN GET Jehovah's APPROVAL...BYT only IF THEY STOP THE PRACTICE. Homosexuals these days seem to spend all their time in flouting what they are but not changing their practices... Even the media support them...and in their GAY parades, they get even the police involved...A heterosexual police officer should refuse to participate, even at the expense of his/her job. Having the police contingent march in these parades implies the government of the day approves.. All this done on the false premise of loe your fellow man. Jehovah has his limits...and he has warned us...A.I.D.S. is just one consequence...

CHAPTER 19 Lot entertains holy men—The men of Sodom seek to abuse Lot’s guests and are smitten with blindness—Lot is sent out of Sodom—The Lord rains brimstone and fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah—Lot’s daughters preserve his seed in the land. 1 And there came atwo bangels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and awash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a afeast, and did bake bunleavened bread, and they did eat. 4 ¶ But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may aknow them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 aBehold now, I have two bdaughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore ccame they under the shadow of my roof. 9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to asojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. 10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with ablindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. 12 ¶ And athe men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bbring them out of this place: 13 For we will destroy this place, because the acry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it. 14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, aget you bout of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that cmocked unto his sons in law. 15 ¶ And when the morning arose, then the aangels hastened bLot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being amerciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. 17 ¶ And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; alook not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the bmountain, lest thou be consumed. 18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19 Behold now, thy servant hath found agrace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. 21 And he said unto him, See, I have aaccepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. 22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called aZoar. 23 ¶ The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained

Darwin Chandler turned away from Christianity.

The bible is very clear regarding God's wrath against sin, Romans 1: 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen. For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. God holds how you treat your bodies with high regard because he considers you the temple of God, a holy place, this is why marriage is a sanctified "holy," it has to be blessed by God. Eve came from Adam, and Adam recognises her as bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, the bible says when the two are joined they become ONE flesh, just as they were before Eve was removed, and as such Eve is called the mother of life, showing that life comes from this union, from the seed of the man and the egg of the woman. It's meant to be a beautiful, a pure thing. The anus is where crap comes out of, it's a waste pipe, it doesn't have it's own lubrication, and the tissues there are easy to tear, it wasn't designed for penetration, or to have anything stuck inside it. This is why it is classed by God as a depraved act, not only is it unclean, unnatural, but it doesn't produce anything and is classed as being disrespectful to the body and what it was created for. At the end of the day, I can only hope that the Holy Spirit can do the job of councillor to ALL sinners who repent, and that means everyone including me. Sins do vary in category, there are 6 sins that God hates and seven that are detestable to him proverbs 6:16 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that run swiftly to evil, a false witness who gives false testimony, and one who stirs up discord among brothers.

My bible says God made them male and female and it repeats that several times. You must be getting your material from some other god.

No same God, just better teaching and understanding. Yes, He made male and female but He commanded love of everyone and that includes the homosexual as much as the heterosexual.

Thinker, you really should not say what you think without thinking. You also should read the bible before you claim it as a source for what you think. The bible expressly forbids a man to lie with another man as with a woman. That act is not love. Jesus defined and explained love in Luke chapter 10, and it does not require taking off your pants.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that adult consensual homosexuality is wrong. It does say not to have pagan worship with homosexual acts as this is an abomination to the Lord God. I think you need to understand what the Bible says and not what some preacher lies about. I have studied on this subject extensively to learn what the Lord God says. I am not homosexual but I at least know what the Lord God says about it, do you?

Are we just gonna dismiss the fact that there was a homosexual couple in the Bible. 1 Samuel 18, "3 Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, and his armor, and even his sword and his bow and his belt." Now don't even try to tell me they are just friends, this is way more clear than the man shall not sleep with a man like they would a woman phrase

It doesn't say and then they had sex or became one! Or even uncovered his nakedness like it does in the story about Noah's son. You remember the one whose whole lineage was swallowed up into the earth because of his fornicating with his own father? You keep cherry picking the verses you think prove they were homosexual to appease your guilt, but if you read the whole thing you'll get the whole picture. And don't forget David slept with Bathsheba and lost his son for it!! So he wasn't gay.

Also God did very specifically say exactly whose nakedness one was not allowed to uncover! It starts in Leviticus 18: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22?lang=eng

This was speaking of pagan rituals using homosexual acts in their "worship". It also refers to pederasty which was very evolved from that of Lev. 18:22.

So, Dick, in your smut scripture what exactly does fornication mean? Because the true meaning is having sex with anyone other than your spouse! We are commanded to love everyone but that doesn't involve having sex with everyone!

He said he got the idea from reading Satanic literature. Christianity teaches us to love everyone. Apparently he didn't read that part. Of course Satanic literature doesn't teach that.

Linda Joy, I left a comment in this thread, and it is no longer visible. Someone is deleting comments.

I believe the only ones who can delete posts are staff. Anyone can report them as being offensive. And sometimes it depends on if anyone sees them and reports them like duplicates. Sometimes staff doesn't agree its offensive. Its their call. And I'm just another user of the site, not staff.

Linda Joy, I am not known for posting offensive comments, nor do I post duplicates. Someone did not like what I had to say. Therefore, my comment got deleted.

Then obviously it was offensive to THEM. And I've seen more than one post from you I've personally found offensive.

No, the Bible condemns homosexual acts done in pagan worship. The Lord God was telling the Hebrew people not to adopt those practices into their worship of Him. He was also talking about pederasty in relation to prepubescent boys captured in battle. The Lord God is no more opposed to adult consensual homosexuality as He is of adult consensual heterosexuality. I have learned this through much study of the Bible and much reading from many excellent sources.

"No, the Bible condemns homosexual acts done in pagan worship." Please provide a verse in the bible that states this.

If you read and study the whole chapter in Lev. 18 and Romans 1 putting it in the terms, language, and understanding of the days when written and not in the language and understandings we use today you will learn the answer to your question. It takes study and research not just a cursive reading.

Not good enough.

God is the same today, tomorrow and forever! It was a sin then and it still is.

Pr1zm, I don't come on AB much any longer. You said "not good enough". Sometimes it is necessary to do other studies to understand what the Bible is saying. I mentioned a book in one of my earlier posts here on the thread. It was written by a minister of over 36 years who has studied all aspects of the Bible and has written his books all based of the Bible. I suggest you obtain some of these additional studies and learn what the Bible actually says in the prose of when it was written, not in today's words and understanding.

I suggest you pray and ask The Spirit to guide you. People lie to justify their own ends. The Spirit will NEVER lead you astray!

The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was violent rape, not consensual sex. The homosexual aspect of it heightens the shock. When testosterone-induced hazing among men is reported at schools, is it about sex or violent domination?

Funny how my comments disappeared.

Quote: "The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was violent rape, not consensual sex." Not the case in Scripture. The Sodomites wanted to have sex with the angels: Genesis 19:5 "They shouted to Lot, Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!"

CHAPTER 19 Lot entertains holy men—The men of Sodom seek to abuse Lot’s guests and are smitten with blindness—Lot is sent out of Sodom—The Lord rains brimstone and fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah—Lot’s daughters preserve his seed in the land. 1 And there came atwo bangels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and awash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a afeast, and did bake bunleavened bread, and they did eat. 4 ¶ But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may aknow them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 aBehold now, I have two bdaughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore ccame they under the shadow of my roof. 9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to asojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. 10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with ablindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. 12 ¶ And athe men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bbring them out of this place: 13 For we will destroy this place, because the acry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it. 14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, aget you bout of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that cmocked unto his sons in law. 15 ¶ And when the morning arose, then the aangels hastened bLot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being amerciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. 17 ¶ And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; alook not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the bmountain, lest thou be consumed. 18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19 Behold now, thy servant hath found agrace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. 21 And he said unto him, See, I have aaccepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. 22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called aZoar. 23 ¶ The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained

Won't copy it all in. Just google it. But they did get violent and try to put their hands on Lot as well. That's when they were blinded.

Linda Joy, as the Sodomites were enraged with Lot, anger in the strictest sense leads to violence. It is a fundamentally social emotion, and its function is to shape dominance relationships.

.

LMAO! Yep, the old "well someone had to do it". xD

Thanks for the support, rick...Pugs

You're welcome Pugs

People seem to forget to "do unto others" just as readily as they forget to NOT do to others. Black, white, green, red / Can I take my friend to bed? --The Beatles "All Together Now" (1969)

The Beatles were followers of Satanist Aleister Crowley, their moto was everyone should do what they want, Crowley's was "Do what thy wilt." He also featured on the Sgt Pepper Album

Aleister Crowley 33rd degree freemason, CIA operative, and member of the A.A white brotherhood and practicer of Theosophy (the New Age Religion under the Lucis Trust behind the United Nations) quote "The Devil' is, historically, the God of any people that one personally dislikes... This serpent, SATAN, is not the enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil; He bade 'Know Thyself!' and taught Initiation. He is 'The Devil' of the Book of Thoth, and His emblem is BAPHOMET, the ANDROGYNE who is the hieroglyph of arcane perfection... He is therefore Life, and Love." "The key of joy is disobedience." "Those magicians who object to the use of blood, have endeavored to replace it with incense. But, the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious. And for nearly all purposes, human sacrifice is the best." "There are no "standards of Right". Ethics is balderdash. Each Star must go on its own orbit. To hell with "moral principle"; there is no such thing." "A white male child of perfect innocence and intelligence makes the most suitable victim" .

https://vivienveil.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/crowleybeatles.jpg (Hitler was also going to star on the cover) http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/the_beatles_sgt_pepper_album_cover_hitler.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oy7S6stE8Ks/VHMsqS5iD_I/AAAAAAAAOzk/BVQC9IFyNmQ/s1600/35011_554926087875315_640275510_n.jpg

Hitler was also modeled for the cover of Sgt. Pepper, but was swapped out last minute for Johnny Weissmuller, because the photographers thought the image of Hitler would be too controversial. There are also fairly credible sources who have said that Jesus was also to appear on the album cover, but was removed, also to avoid controversy, not by the band, but by staffers. I would say that it's a series of pretty big logical leaps to go from "Aleister Crowley was on the cover of a Beatles album along with scores of other historical figures" to "The Beatles were devout Satanists." For example, if the Beatles followed the philosophy of everyone appearing on the cover, there would be many irreconcilable conflicts.

In an interview with Playboy, John was asked why Aleister Crowley had made the cut for the Album cover, John's response was quote “The whole Beatle idea was to do what you want, right? To take your own responsibility.” Lennon was paraphrasing “Do what thou wilt,” which is one of the central precepts of Thelema, the religion founded by Aleister Crowley. Thelema is the Greek word which means “will” and teaches that we each must discover our individual inmost nature, described as the “True Will.”The Beatles were only the first of many counterculture rock musicians in the 1960s to openly cite Aleister Crowley as an influence. Led Zeppelin‘s guitarist Jimmy Page was very interested in Aleister Crowley and he remains a prominent Thelemite today. We have even recently learned that Frank Zappa was reading Crowley in 1968. He also influenced Davie Bowie, the Rolling Stones, The Doors and many other'. The New Age religion is Theosophy as seen on the Lucis Trust website which is behind the United Nations, and people are having to be indoctrinated into that with programming. No carboard cut out of Jesus was ever made. And Lennon said that the Beatles were greater than Jesus. Lennon said that "Hitler was just a "naughty boy."

That's not the correct context of that quote at all! Lennon was asked why he didn't get back together with the Beatles, not why Aleister Crowley was on the cover of Sgt. Pepper. Anyway, to complete at least the sentence you started to quote: "The whole Beatle idea was to do what you want, right? To take your own responsibility, do what you want and try not to harm other people, right?" With that in mind, you have to take the position of either: 1. The Beatles were not necessarily Satanic, or 2. Satanism is about doing whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone. If your position is the latter, then maybe you need to read up on Satanism a little before you go accusing people who are not it of being it.

The beatles put aleister Crowley on their album cover, I've read a lot about Aleister Crowley, and he influenced most of the music bands from the 1960's onwards.

No one is denying that he's on the cover of the album (along with a huge number of other people). The link that seems like too much of a stretch is where you are saying that the Beatles are Satanists/Thelemites. Satan appears in the Bible- does that mean that the Bible is Satanic?!

Have you ever read anything on Aleister Crowley, Madam Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Elipha Levi? the Lucis Trust which is behind the United Nations? The Beatles chose the characters on the cover of the album as people they would most like to have watching them at a concert.

I've read quite a bit about Aleister Crowley, yes. I'm only vaguely familiar with the others you mentioned. They were all weird cult leaders. Reeling back into your claim that "The Beatles were followers of Satanist Aleister Crowley," do you have any direct evidence of this at all? As for indirect evidence, do you believe that the cultist's appearance on the cover of Sgt. Pepper, along with scores of other historical figures and pop culture icons is noteworthy?

For the attention, duh! That's why they want to force everyone to be ok with it. That's why they are disproportionately over represented in the media. And its not enough to accept they are gay they want to try and force their lifestyle on the public! What about those who don't believe its proper and decent, like committing adultery. You don't just sleep with anyone. You learn self denial and self restraint.

That wasn't my question. But, moving on to your point, why does it matter to you, personally, who other people are boinking?

Can a person be born homosexual? - Probably not. I believe everyone is born asexual and then genetic and environmental factors determine otherwise (or potentially not) during or prior to puberty. Also, to be quite literal, the Bible does not prohibit all such acts, only a man laying down with another man as he would with a woman. This could be interpreted to mean that acts done standing, sitting, or kneeling are not explicitly prohibited.