ANSWERS: 14
  • I just bought a used car with cashiers check, and only name and address was required. Gave phone number, too, so he can call when title is in. He wasn't used to selling in full, usually works on loan/payments.
  • I don't think it has anything to do with the Patriot act, or even needing to run a credit check. Large cash transactions tend to draw attention from the tax authorities, and there are lots of rules about what has to be reported. That's aimed at money laundering and drug dealers, etc. Organized crime. I can think of no reason he would need to run a credit check, but he may need to report the transaction and that would likely require an SSA#.
  • You don't have to give your Social Security number to ANYONE except the IRS, your employer, and your bank. The car dealer should take a scan of your drivers' license - that is ALL he needs.
  • Lets face it, people who pay cash for an automobile are few and far between. the first thing the dealer suspects is either laundered money or a drug dealer. many car dealers have been caught in the middle of selling autos to drug dealers....for drug money. If the dealer is reputable, go along with his requests. He is looking out for his interests as well as yours.
  • cash transactions over 5,000 have new rules, don't think the PAT ACT has anything though
  • No. It is not true. It's also in direct violation of Section 7 of the Privacy Act of 1974. Nobody is entitled to your social security number unless it is for tax purposes. This is why, on the social security card itself, it states that it is not to be used for identification purposes. The fact that many private companies do ask for this does not make it binding on anyone.   If this dealer is asking because he says it's required by a government agency, which in reference to the Patriot Act, would be the Department of Homeland Security, then he is required by law to provide what's called a "Privacy Act Disclosure Notice."   The short answer is that you're better off going elsewhere. You can also get a taxpayer identification number (TIN), which can be given as an identification number. This link can tell you a lot more, especially the things that most people in the US don't know about the social security number and it's uses:   http://www.mind-trek.com/practicl/tl17b.htm   You may, if you are as offended by dealer's action as I would be, serve a Constructive Notice on him. Here is a sample one: CONSTRUCTIVE NOTICE To: _________________________________________________________ (Person being served) Of: _________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ (Name and address of Institution) You are being made aware by this Constructive Notice that it is a violation of Federal Law to refuse to: To provide your services to a client or potential client because the client or potential client does not provide a social security account number or a taxpayer identification number. You personally, and the Institution you represent, may be liable for damages and attorney's fees. In accordance with Section 1 of Pub. L. 93-579, also known as the "Privacy Act of 1974," and Title 5 of United States Code Annotated 552 (a), also known as the "Privacy Act," you are being informed of the following: "The right to privacy is a personal and fundamental right protected by the Constitution of the United States. You may maintain in your records only such information about an individual as is relevant and necessary to accomplish a purpose required by statute or by executive order of the President of the United States." Section 7 of the Privacy Act of 1974 specifically provides that it shall be unlawful for any Federal State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number. "Right of privacy is a personal right designed to protect persons from unwanted disclosure of personal information..." CNA Financial Corp. v. Local 743 515 F. Supp. 942. "In enacting Section 7 (Privacy Act of 1974), Congress sought to curtail the expanding use of social security numbers by federal and local agencies and, by so doing, to eliminate the threat to individual privacy and confidentiality of information posed by common numerical identifiers." Doyle v. Wilson; 529 F. Supp. 1343. "It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security number." Doyle v. Wilson; 529 F. Supp. 1343. An "agency is a relation created by express or implied contract or by law, whereby one party delegates the transaction of some lawful business with a more or less discretionary power to another." State Ex Real. Cities Service Gas v. Public Service Commission; 85 S W. 2d 890. If the Institution you represent is a Bank, you are advised that if such Bank routinely collects information and provides such information to Federal, State or local government agencies, then such bank is an agency of government. The 1976 amendment to the Social Security Act, codified at 42 U.S.C.A., Sec 301 et seq., 405(c)(2) (i,iii), states that there are only four instances where social security account numbers may be demanded. These are: For tax matters; To receive public assistance; To obtain and use a driver's license; To register a motor vehicle. You are advised that purchasing a motor vehicle does not pertain to any of the above. There is no "need-to-know" on the part of government. In accordance with the Privacy Act of 1974, whenever an agency fails to comply with the law, the party wronged may bring a civil action in the district court of the United States against such agency. Should the court determine that the agency acted in a manner which was intentional or willful, the agency shall be liable to the wronged party in an amount equal to the sum of: Actual damages sustained, but in no case less than $1,000; and The costs of the action together with reasonable attorney's fees. Constructive Notice issued by:________________________________ Representing:_________________________________________________ Witness:________________________________________ Date:_________________________ By the way, as an aside, I would personally be interested in knowing who this car dealer is if you can provide that information.
  • The Patriot Act IS indeed BS, but I don't think your situation has anything to do with it. Frankly, I don't know why he would want to do a background check on a Cash purchase. Why does he need to check your credit if youre not using credit to make the transaction?
  • In some states, car dealers are required to report cash purchase beyond a certain amount. This is probably why he needed your ss number. He may also want to run a credit check because he plans to try to sell you some add-ons (maintenance plan, extended warranty, etc...)
  • 2nd Answer. If you owned a car dealership and a man came in with a briefcase full of cash to purchase a car, would you not be suspicious? most people would. here is why..... Many car dealers have become victims of drug dealers, who buy autos for cash. they title the cars in their sisters, their mothers and their minor cousings names. this is to launder the money and get the car. Car dealers have to suffer the lose, once the police are involved. the dealer loses the money and the cars are confiscated as evidence and sold at auction. A lot of people do not understand the legal procedures. A couple of times of this type transaction, can close a car dealership in a hurry. THIS is why the dealer wants to check this person out.
  • The person at the car dealership probably Didn't fully understand why he needed it from you. A manager probably told him to get it and he just blamed it on the Patriot Act, because its easy to do. The reality is that if you pay cash and you spend over 10,000 dollars, or it you pay with multiple sources that add up to over $10,000. The dealership needs your social to report that transactions to the IRS with an 8300 form. If the dealership does not report it they are subject to recieving huge fines from the government if they ever get audited. People should check their facts before they cry foul play. If a salesperson says something that doesn't sound right, ask a manager.
  • No one needs to know your SS number except the IRS and your employer. NO ONE!!! No matter what they tell you, or refuse to give you service, it's illegal to require it.
  • my dealership wants my soc sec no to run a background check through homeland security, they claim to comply with OFAC laws (even though I am paying cash!!)
  • My family purchased a new vehicle in Dec. 08. We paid for half of it with a personal check drawn from a local bank. The other half was financed through our credit union. The dealership demanded a social security number because of the Patriot's Act. I argued about providing the number, but by that point I just wanted to get out of there with the vehicle. The dealership has no requirement to file a Cash Transaction Report with the IRS for a personal check. I am fed up with the Patriot's Act being the excuse for various demands from my bank, credit card companies, and now car dealers! The reason the dealership demanded the SS# was because the Patriot Act has a broad definition of what's considered a "financial institution." Under the Act, all financial institutions must obtain identification & verification of any person "opening an account." A driver's license provides the necessary identification and verification required by the Patriot's Act. Requiring the SS# is the "financial institution's" rule---not required by the Patriot's Act---and as the #1 post noted, isn't appropriate.
  • They can only ask for your ss number to run your credit to see if your creditworthy or not.Thats it!!They can not ask for your ss card to make copies of it.Thats illegal.If it gets in the wrong hands,which it has before,it can destroy your life.This protects you from it getting in the wrong hands.They cannot refuse you credit by refusing to show your ss card.Only the irs can demand it.Thats what the 1974 act is,it protects you from fraud.Its not for credit purposes,it is used for indenification purposes.It has all kinds of information on you and can hurt you if someone gets a hold of it.The financial institute only has a right to ask for it to run your credit and ask for you drivers license is enough to check your indentity.Your name is also in your credit report so to ask for all these other documents like making a copy of your ss card is totally illegal.Its your legal right to refuse to show your ss card to protect yourself from fraud!!They cannot refuse you credit to refuse to show them your ss card!!

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