I love this question. I am Mormon, and there is constant arguing between us and baptists on this issue. We believe that Jesus Christ Atoned for all sins and for all people. However, people must first have faith in Him, repent, be baptized by proper authority, receive the Holy Ghost, and then...ENDURE TO THE END!!! You can't just feel emotional one day at church walk up on the stage and be "saved' and that is the end. "Faith without works is dead". Like I said, you have to have faith, repent, be baptized (renew baptismal covenants through sacrament), have the Spirit be with you, and continue this cycle of progression. This concept that you are saved and that is it is so ridiculous. Thank you for brining it up.

I struggle with this one too. But if a person truly has asked for repentance and asked for the gift of salvation their heart should be changed. It would be inconceivable for a person who has experienced this and is following the ways of the Lord to do the things you have asked. With the exception of someone who is mentally ill and their thought processes are not right.

I am a baptist and do believe if you are saved you go to Heaven no matter what. I don't think that you can "lose" your Salvation. God wants everyone to go to Heaven therefore why would He let you lose it? If a person is truly saved they should not want to go out and murder/rape people and if they do they will be punished by God. When we go to Heaven there is going to be a judgement. God has already forgave our sins because of Jesus but we are going to have to answer for the things that we have done in our lives that were not pleasing to Him. We will still go to Heaven only if we are saved but we will have to answer for the things we have done or not done.

pretty sure you have to repent or w/e i was raised baptist... but the dark side pulled me over.

No..if you are saved, you are expected to act like it. If you do go out and murder and rape you can be forgiven, but the desire for forgiveness has to be asked from the heart, not the mouth.

without going too deep in this subject, basically the answer to this question is no. A person might live a most terrible lifestyle, but in order to be saved, one must fully repent of the evil in their life in order to be forgiven. You can't just say "Im sorry I murdered those people... gimmie my wings" Your desire to be forgiven must be sincere and heartfelt, and from the point of being forgiven, one should strive to always take the high road which is to say, try one's best to always do what is right in the eyes of God. Just saying "Ok Im sorry God" at the end of your life wont do the trick.

I always thought that classified you as being a hypocryte , pretending to be a christian & living a sinful life. I was raised in Baptist & methodist both but I thought if you repented & asked for forgiveness for your sins was one thing & you lead a good life after but if you asked for forgiveness & keep doing what you know is wrong then you'd go to hell no matter if you were baptised or not. But I haven't been to church in quite a while so my teachings may have got mixed up along the way.

As a Christian, my understanding of the Bible is 1) A person is declared right with God based on Christ's work alone, (i.e His death in our place and resurrection). 2) A person receives the benefits of Christ's atoning work through faith alone /trusting alone in Him alone. 3) A person who trusts alone in Christ alone, as long as they keep trusting in Christ til the end, has an assurance of salvation, since it is based on Christ's work alone, not what they do. 4) A person who trusts in Christ is a member of God's family, part of His Kingdom, one of His people. Because he/she has this new identity, it is appropriate that they live consistently with it. It doesn't make sense if they didn't. It's like two people who get married. At the wedding, they become a married couple. It is appropriate therefore for them to act like it. For example, it would be weird if they continued to live separately, or for the woman to refer to herself as "miss". Same thing with Christians. In Christ, they are a new creation, free from the power and penalty of sin. Therefore to sin is to willingly submit themselves back into the slavery that Christ freed them from. Do Christians still sin? Yes, we're imperfect. So in summary: Christians who trust in Christ have an assurance of salvation because it is based on Christ's work alone A person who genuinely trusts in Christ will have a changed life.

Yes, the Baptist belief system does generally work that way. Baptists believe that Jesus' death covers all sins and that if you try to act good to get into heaven (by relying on works), then you are not fully putting your faith in Jesus' hands, but in your own.

Could be... But if you murder/rape people, it MAY be MUCH sooner than you were originally scheduled for! ;-)

I am not a Baptist, so have no axe to grind, but I am a Christian, have worshipped alongside many Baptists and I know that this is not what they believe. They believe what the Bible teaches, and this question was addressed by none other than the Apostle Paul in the New Testament. (Romans 6) "1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." Basically what this is saying is that IF a person has been granted eternal life because of the death and resurrection of Jesus, then there is a transformation begun in his/her life. They are dead to sin (v11). Both consciously and unconsciously, therefore, the sort of behaviour you mention (murder/rape etc) will be out of the question. And that is usually the case. The incidences of these amongst sincere Christians is very low. If a person was doing these things, it might be an indication that they have gone through the words and actions, but the heart transformation that assures a person of salvation has not taken place. God does not dismiss sin, and is especially hard on those who claim to be Christians and indulge in behaviour that reflects badly on Christ. If you look in the parables of Jesus you will find one that talks of a master going away on a trip and entrusting his servants with money: 14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talents[a] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money. 19"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.' 21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!' 22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.' 23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!' 24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.' 26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' (Matthew 25) If the third servant is punished because he did NOTHING with the things God gave him, what do you think the response would be to a person who brought dishonour on the name of God by misusing what God has given Him? I cannot say (it is not my position to judge) what happens to a Christian who did something like this. Only God would know the heart ultimately. But rest assured, God would not take it lightly.

Well, logically if the first is correct the second ought to follow.

borasalama: Sorry for any confusion in my wording. Jesus is the Savior of all mankind. He DID Atone for ALL sins and for ALL people. HOWEVER, we must come unto Christ with a humble heart and contrite spirit in repentant steps for the Atonement to cover our sins. I know it sounds weird, and even confusing. Let me try explaining it this way...in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross, the Savior suffered and Atoned for our sins. Sins past, present and future. The pain he felt was so excruciating that He bled from every pore. He felt all the pain, sadness, heartache, and guilt that everyone had felt, was feeling, and would feel. It wasn't simply Him being put upon the cross that made His Atonement possible...His death and resurrection is what delievered the knockout punch to death. Until that moment, death was permanent...however, on the day of the Savior's resurrection He made it possible for ALL to be resurrected. After death our bodies and our spirits are separated. Those who are just will live in a state of paradise, however those who have not lived the law in which they knew will live in a state of spirit prison. Just how on this earth, we go forth teaching and proclaiming the Gospel, so will it be done in the spirit world. (John 6:45; 1 Peter 15-21; 1 Peter 4:6) This will go on until the day of the final judgment. At this time, all will have had an equal opportunity to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. ALL will be resurrected. "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust" (Acts 24:15). My point is that there are three parts to the Atonement of Jesus Christ. #1) The suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane; #2) The suffering and death on the cross; #3) His Resurrection. So, let's back up for a minute here... What is the point of all this? To return to Our Father in Heaven. Let's go to the time of Adam and Eve, as they are banished from the Garden of Eden. Why do we need a savior? #1) At the moment Adam and Eve became mortal, they (and we) became vulnerable to sickness, suffering, pain, and death. We are now separated from God because of death. However, because of the Savior, ALL (both the just and unjust) will have their bodies and spirits united and we become immortal eternal beings. This is a gift given to all of mankind. However, this still leaves a problem...we are still separated from our Father because of our sins (Ephesians 5:5). Which brings me to my final point. in the Garden of Gethsemane, the Savior suffered and felt every pain, sadness, heartache, guilt. In that moment, He took upon Himself the sins of the world. ALL sins. This made it possible for us to repent, and as I said in my initial answer, begin a progression toward living a Christlike life. You said in response to my answer "I suppose all people means Jews,Hindus and Atheists. The first reject Jesus, the second don't know about him and third not only rejects God but doesn't particularly want atonement." The only way unto the Father is through the Savior. Thus through His atoning sacrifice. so if any Jews, Hindus, or Atheists come unto Christ, then their sins can be forgiven them. The analogy i use is this. My dad worked very hard while I was growing up to save up money to put me through school. However, I had to do my part to stay on course to graduate high school and get into college. Was I perfect, no. but I did my best. I did my part. My Dad did his part and the money was there for me to go to college. For those unbelievers (Jews, Hindus, Atheists, etc.) the "money" is there...the Savior did His part. He atoned for their sins. Just because the "money" is there, doesn't mean that they will accept Jesus Christ. I know this is a deep concept. But I believe my initial answer best sums everything up. My answer on February 20th was: "I love this question. I am Mormon, and there is constant arguing between us and baptists on this issue. We believe that Jesus Christ Atoned for all sins and for all people. However, people must first have faith in Him, repent, be baptized by proper authority, receive the Holy Ghost, and then...ENDURE TO THE END!!! You can't just feel emotional one day at church walk up on the stage and be "saved' and that is the end. "Faith without works is dead". Like I said, you have to have faith, repent, be baptized (renew baptismal covenants through sacrament), have the Spirit be with you, and continue this cycle of progression. This concept that you are saved and that is it is so ridiculous. Thank you for brining it up." Let me know if anything else I said brings up new questions or clarifications. Sorry this is so long.

If you claim to be saved, yet live and act like the opposite, you are not truly saved. Before we were saved, we were creatures of lawlessness. Upon salvation, God causes out old self to die and we are reborn in Christ. This gives us new desires because, for the first time ever, we desire to be righteous. Christ gives us the parable of the sower. The true Christian is the one who flourishes. The rest of the seed is those who reject Christ from the beginning as well as false converts. Paul teaches all about grace. He asks us (rhetorically) if we should use grace as a covering for evil. His response is, "May it never be!" A true Christian is covered by grace through the justification of Christ but he will never use it as an excuse to continue to sin. One who does so is not truly one fo Christ's own.

i was raised in a bapist church,and was always told once saved always saved,and that you could be a backslider. then we were preached to,that if you were a backslider when you died,that,you only got a small little corner of heaven. so,anyways what religon should we really believe,or does it all come down to faith?

That's correct. However, a person who claims to be saved, continues to live the old sinful life and has no desire to please God is very likely not saved. A person who is saved cannot enjoy sin like an unsaved person can. If you claim to be saved and see sinning as a wonderful privilege to get away with because you have eternal life, something's not right. A saved person has been born again, is a child of God, he's not perfect, but the Holy Spirit dwells in him and he does not see sin as a wonderful thing.

Yes. You're forgiven whatever you do. And to top it all, if you never rape, murder, steal, lie, commit adultery, and all the other sins, you still are no better off than if you did.

Salvation is based solely on faith in Christ. His sacrifice on the cross atones for our sin, and his holiness is given to those that accept the sacrifice. Notice I said holiness, not righteousness. Holiness is purity, without sin; so God does not see the individual's sin, instead he sees Jesus' holiness that covers their sin. Righteousness, on the other hand, is the ability to always make judgements base on God's moral law. We are holy through Jesus, but we are not righteous until the sin nature is removed, which will be the case when we recieve our new bodies in heaven. That being the case, a person that accepts this sacrifice, makes a devoted pledge to fully submit to the will of God, they are given the Holy Spirit to help keep them accountable to that pledge. This person still has the sin nature, so they will still fall suspect to sin, but the Holy Spirit will not allow them to fall into a life of sin. Life for the Christian is one that strives for righteousness, but there is a presence of individual unrelated mistakes, and each result in an eventual broken heart that strives to turn back to serve God, the other is unrepentant and continues in sin. In other words, a person truly devoted to following God would be HIGHLY unlikely to commit these acts, but if they did then their sin would be covered. The reason for this is because, when talking about salvation, the issue is not how many good or bad things someone has done. The issue is has that person done ANYTHING bad. God is completely holy and completely rihteous, and our sin, any sin, just one, breaks the relationship with God. The goal for salvation, then, is to restore this relationship, but the only way for that to be done is for this sin to be atoned for, which had to be done by God since he is the only one that is capable of doing it.

Salvation can Be lost. My cousin was a christian one and even expressed his physical release when he felt saved. Now he is a athiest. He was saved once but if he died today, he WOULD go to hell.

I can't cope with all of this. If you murder, whether you repent or not, you should go to Hell. What is so complicated in that. Why should anyone be forgiven for that? If it was an accident, that's another matter. I think it is all very clear in the Bible. You may be sorry for what you did, but you can't change it after the fact. Hell is the place for you and that is final.

this is true - if you are saved you go to heaven. but i doubt there are many murderers and rapists who are truly truly sorry for what they've done. you can't be sorry because you are afraid of going to hell. you have to be sorry because you have offended humanity and offended God. people don't realize how difficult it is to truly repent and be forgiven. you can't just say you are sorry, you have to mean it with every ounce of your being, and for the right reasons.

JUST BECAUSE A PERSON IS BAPTIST, DOES NOT GIVE THEM A LICENSE TO SIN. WE ARE SINNERS SAVED BY GRACE, GRACE IS THE ACT OF GOD'S KINDNESS GIVING US WHAT WE REALLY DIDN'T DESERVE (UNMERITED FAVOR) WE REALLY DESERVE DEATH BECAUSE OF OUR SINS, BUT ON THE CONTRARY GOD LOOKS BEYOND OUR FAULTS (SIN) THE HE SUPPLIES US WITH WHAT WE REALLY NEEDED, A (SAVOIUR) JUST BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED, DOSE NOT GIVE US A RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER SIN WE PLEASE, GOD DIDN'T SAVE US TO SIN HE SAVED US FROM SIN. AS BAPTIST WHEN WE SIN, IT SHOULD BE A SIN THAT TAKES US UNAWARE, LOOK AT PETER WHEN HE WAS TOLD THAT HE WOULD DENY CHRIST, LATER DURING THE ARREST OF JESUS. A DAMSEL SAID THAT PETER WAS WITH CHRIST, UNAWARE PETER CURSE THE FACT THAT HE WAS WITH CHRIST. WE ARE HUMANS AND ARE VULNERABLE TO SIN BECAUSE OF THE FLESH, BUT THE SPIRIT AND TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD GIVES US STRENGHT. BUT IF WE DO FALL SHORT OF GOD'S GLORY, WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE HIS NAME HIS JESUS WE WILL ALL FACE JUDGEMENT, HOW WILL THOSE WHO WILLFULLY SIN PLEAD? WHILE HERE ON EARTH WE WILL REAP THE THINGS WE SOW, SO BE CAREFUL IS YOUR LIVING A LIFE WITH A LICENSE TO SIN. BAPTIST IS NOT A BADGE OF HONOR TO GET INTO HEAVEN, HOLY LIVING IS, ONLY THE PURE IN HEART SHALL SEE GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! NO SIN IN GLORY.

if you were truly saved you become a new person in Christ, how can a person who has truly accepted Jesus sin deliberately because he knows he is going to heaven, that means that your salvation is false, you weren't saved in the first place.

Well, yes, but if I am 'saved' why would I? . Certainly I still have lust, and anger, and fear, but I also am convicted in my heart for those weaknesses. It would be an impulse that isn't going anywhere. .

you tell me ... http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

This question shows your ignorance of the term "SAVED". To answer this question would not be sufficient enough to get to the core issues you have. Any answer given, unless quite lengthy, you would just either deny or ignore. I suggest you read the book of "John".