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The Bible teaches that God is good by nature, but all humans have the free will to turn away from Him and be sinful. By this logic, wouldn't sin be impossible if humans didn't have free will, therefor making human free will the root of all evil?

By Mr. Meaulnes Asked Jan 18 2008 5:31PM
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Top Answer out of 10

by Anonymous on Feb 10, 2008 at 4:56 am Permalink

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I don't think God wanted a bunch of programmed robots, but he wanted friends (in a way), so he gave us free will. It was a gift, often miss-used.
Even though our own children have some free will, still they complain we are too strict. How much more we would have complained and ranted and raved if God had forced us be good and sweet and compassionate and doing community service and donating our time and money all the time.
I'm sure he'd rather answer prayers than customer service gripes.
If the Bible falls apart, it's because mere men interpreted what God said in translation, which was originally inspired and totally true.
Now, if women had written the Bible, things would have kept much more in line with what God intended in the first place.
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Answer 2 out of 10

by DiSTurBiA on Jan 18, 2008 at 6:04 pm Permalink

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I like my free will lol. My free will did turn me away from god, seeing as I have no proof that he exists
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Avatar DiSTurBiA Aug, 23 2008 at 10:19 AM
um thats you dude
Avatar Mr. Meaulnes Aug, 23 2008 at 10:49 AM
Y'know, people... we *Are* pretty pointless here.
Perhaps we could get back to main debate subject?
Avatar PixieDust_and_DemonHorns Aug, 23 2008 at 09:33 PM
please

Answer 3 out of 10

by JTP on Jan 18, 2008 at 5:32 pm Permalink

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Yes, meaning that God could have avoided his don dying if he had just not given us free will.

The bible tends to fall apart with close scrutiny, this isn't surprising.
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Avatar the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT Nov, 12 2009 at 09:29 AM
The bottom line is there’s *never* going to be a situation where there is absolutely no other explanation than the so-called “supernatural.” Even “hard science’s” observations can’t produce a scenario with only one possible explanation; we just use the scientific method to determine what seems to be a consistent outcome and then take it on faith that we’ve reached the right conclusion. Often we have; sometimes we haven’t, and it’s left to future generations to fix our misconceptions. But we do our best.
 
Do I know everything about God? Of course not. But I know a lot, and I’m trying to share it with you. It all comes back to you, though: unless *you* do the experiment, *you’ll* never know. And that’s what this mortal experience is all about.
 
HTH!
Avatar the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT Nov, 12 2009 at 10:03 AM
Sorry… that last post was meant to be the end of my previous train of though. I had to step away and yours hadn’t shown up here yet. Reading now. :-)
Avatar the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT Nov, 12 2009 at 10:27 AM
Regarding your last few posts, MRA, I don’t see anything I disagree with. That’s kind of what I was saying earlier: there is no way to prove to the unbeliever that God is involved in x, y, or z; nor is there any way to prove to the believer that He wasn’t. We see—or don’t see—what we want to. That’s why, throughout this entire discussion, my goal has not been to convince you I’m right: even if I managed to do so, it wouldn’t you any good.
 
What I am saying, MRA, is that you—like everyone else on this planet—need to find out for yourself. To that end, I’m trying to give you the tools you need to do so. Your local missionaries should be amply equipped to help you, since A) they currently carry the specific ordination to do so; and B) they would actually be in your presence and could thus point out when the Holy Ghost is testifying therein. (It really is that obvious.)
 
Like I said, my friend, it‘s all on you. You’ve got my testimony, you’ve got the web site where you can request more information. I’m certainly happy to continue our discussion, if you like, but the ball is firmly in your court. My only exhortation is that you can’t win if you don’t pick it up and play.
 
:-)

Answer 4 out of 10

by bradleybell goes to school on Feb 10, 2008 at 9:12 am Permalink

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Currently it's impossible not to 'sin'. I have no choice in this as I am not perfect in energy, spirit or body, and as I understand it, neither is any one else, so the logic is unfounded.

Also one would need a very clear description and understanding of what exactly is meant by 'sin'.

But a nice question and attempt nevertheless.
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Avatar Mr. Meaulnes Feb, 10 2008 at 02:03 PM
Of course, for your logic to work, you'd also need a definition of "Perfect".
Avatar the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT Sep, 15 2008 at 11:43 AM
“Sin” is any decision whose consequences are incompatible with our ultimate potential as children of God.

Answer 5 out of 10

by LarryH54 on Aug 22, 2008 at 9:42 am Permalink

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Who do you think invented free will?
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Avatar the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT Sep, 15 2008 at 11:47 AM
I would argue that free will is an Eternal concept. God has free will, too; He just uses it appropriately 100% of the time, which is part of what makes Him God.
Avatar LarryH54 Sep, 16 2008 at 08:45 AM
And I would argue that all concepts were created by God, similar to the laws and constants of the universe. But as we are made in His Image, there is no reason to suppose that He does NOT have free will.
Avatar the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT Sep, 16 2008 at 09:10 AM
Interesting take. I guess it’s a question of whether God actually created the laws that govern the universe or just utilized his infinite understanding of natural law to create said universe. Doubt that‘s one we’ll ever answer in this life, though.
 
Thanks for your feedback! :-)

Answer 6 out of 10

by Twhupfold on Feb 10, 2008 at 5:00 am Permalink

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It's not the 'root' of all evil, it's just the reason why we have access to it.

'God' is the root of all evil (the creator of it, and therefore the root cause).
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Avatar PixieDust_and_DemonHorns Jul, 20 2008 at 10:05 PM
i agree god created humans and their free will god created everything including satan so he in turn is the reason for the evil
Avatar the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT Sep, 15 2008 at 11:46 AM
No, God created neither good nor evil; they just are. Everything has its opposite. That’s Christianity—and science—101.
 
Furthermore, God can’t be held responsible for Lucifer using his agency in an unfortunate way. If He had tried to suppress Lucifer’s ability to choose, He would have ceased to be God and the whole Plan would have fallen apart.
Avatar PixieDust_and_DemonHorns Sep, 16 2008 at 12:57 AM
whatever his plan was it has already fallen apart

Answer 7 out of 10

by MRABSOLUTE on Oct 26, 2009 at 5:55 am Permalink

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Of course it's fine that you couldn't get back to me sooner. I appreciate the effort you have put in to find this thread after all this time. At the beginning of this conversation I have to admit, I approached this topic with a bit of pride and maybe anger too. I realize this was not a correct way to do things, I may have come across arrogant or even obnoxious and for that I apologize.

That doesn't mean I take back or even don't mean any of the things I said, I just think I could have said them in a more respectful way maybe.

I checked out that link you gave me, and read a little bit. The first part was simply telling me the story of the bible, which I already know pretty well as I am doing an A Level Philosophy and ethics course which is based around christian philosophy and ethics. (If you don't know, an A Level course is something in the U.K you can choose to do when you finish compulsory education) Anyway I'm not bragging that I do that course or saying I'm a know it all, just that I am quite familiar with the story or at least the important parts.

And so I lost interest when the site started telling me that Jesus died for my sins and what not. So I clicked on the link "how do we know this is true" and I was disappointed and somewhat confused at what I found.

"I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost." - This was the headline to that link I clicked on. So it seemed to me that it was saying, to find out the truth I have to believe in christ before I am given any sort of personal revelation, which seems to be the product this site is marketing. This is illogical. I have to believe in something BEFORE the revelation, surely that's just unreasonable, and in fact impossible. I couldn't have faith in something which has no evidence, and I have been given no personal revelation, at least not true faith. Because my mind will not allow me to do it, I mean any thinking persons mind should not allow them to do it that's like trying to have faith in unicorns. I CANNOT and CANNOT understand how any thinking rational person could have faith in something and hold a belief in it, before the personal revelation or evidence is shown. It's an unreasonable request!

I am sorry I do not doubt your sincerity, I believed in god and christ and the story when I was younger, but as soon as I started arguing and seeing that I could only deny what the opposition of religion were saying for so long. I had to accept the truth, even though believing in god and an after life is comforting, I hold the belief that a universe without god is a place more mysterious and beautiful than a universe with god.

Thanks for your time. I wish you the best.

Peace
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Answer 8 out of 10

by iwnit on Sep 15, 2008 at 2:21 pm Permalink

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"In the philosophy of religion and theology, the problem of evil is the problem of reconciling the existence of evil or suffering in the world with the existence of God.[1] The problem is most often discussed in the context of the personal god of the Abrahamic religions, but is also relevant to polytheistic traditions involving many gods.

Most theists respond that a perfect being may still allow some evil, asserting that it will enable certain greater goods, such as free will, which can not be achieved without allowing some evils."
Source and further information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
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Answer 9 out of 10

by the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT on Sep 15, 2008 at 11:51 am Permalink

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You are correct that human free will is what allows humans to make unfortunate decisions, but it’s also what allows us to make fortunate decisions. If we didn’t have the ability to do evil, we wouldn’t have the ability to do good, either.

An existence without free will was the plan that Lucifer presented before the Council in Heaven—a plan that our Heavenly Father rejected because, to put it bluntly, it was stupid. Without free will, we couldn’t learn to make correct choices and would wind up returning to our Heavenly Father in basically the same state as when we left. What good would that do? Thus, our agency was allowed and a Savior was provided to make up for any area in which we fall short (which covers a *lot* of areas). We still learn to choose the right, but with Jesus as Advocate, we don’t have to worry so much about the times we fail.

HTH!
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Answer 10 out of 10

by Pete Parker on Aug 22, 2008 at 9:48 am Permalink

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My opinion is the inability of man & woman to tell the difference between what is truly right/wrong and good/bad is what is the root of all evil. Not so much having free will as that only gives them the free discretion and ability to carry out what they choose to do.
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Avatar Mr. Meaulnes Aug, 22 2008 at 10:36 AM
The question is, is that a more basic root than their ability to make distinctions and act on them at all?
Avatar Pete Parker Aug, 22 2008 at 10:48 AM
My perception is society as a whole attempts to corral good and bad, and weed out evil but evil seems to dominate behavior patterns in society everywhere it springs up. Thus more restrictions are enacted to those desiring to exercise free will absent of evil. However, free will and "evil" free will seem synonymous but each have different results and repercussions.


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The Bible teaches that God is good by nature, but all humans have the free will to turn away from Him and be sinful. By this logic, wouldn't sin be impossible if humans didn't have free will, therefor making human free will the root of all evil?

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