- NEW!
by inconsequential on August 31st, 2007
That is a actually common mistranslation, but one that is commonly cited by people trying to perpetuate barriers between the religions.
In this case, the Arabic word "Awliya" in Surah 5:51 has been wrongly translated as "friend" whereas the correct word would be "protector". The Koran repeatedly states that the role of protector is God's alone.
As a result, many people are under the misconception that this verse commands Muslims to distance themselves from Non-Muslims and to avoid friendship with them. In fact, Islam embraces Christians and Jews as "People of the Book [of God]" and allows for Muslim men to marry Christian or Jewish women if no suitable Muslim women are available. Furthermore, they are NOT required to convert to Islam in order to marry.
by Arisztid on March 20th, 2008
I do not know because I highly doubt that the Qur'an was written in English and I tend to doubt that that is the correct translation.
From what little I have heard about Islam, that just sounds wrong.
by nucleotideboy on October 29th, 2008
Probably the same thing as this, from the Bible:
"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14
by borasalama on April 21st, 2008
MvL there are some who saw in your question a genuine desire to know or discuss the subject raised in the question and they’ve taken the trouble to provide answers they sincerely believed to be helpful. A good example is the answer posted by Anonymous on Aug 31, 2007 at 11:58 am.
However, it is now clear from your own admission “I'm not picking on Muslims specifically… I'm anti-faith” and from your comments and supplementary questions that your intention was neither to find out nor to have a challenging but genuine discussion. You appear to be out to ridicule under your anti-faith banner. Presumably the only belief system that is not subject to your ridicule is your own anti-faith system. In any case, you’re fully entitled to express yourself in whatever way you want, be it wise or not.
Here’s another take on the issue which one hopes you will at least read.
The person who knows a man’s weaknesses and failings most and is the most capable of bringing him down to earth from any silly ideas he might have is his wife. Yet, when Mohammed’s mission started, at age 40, the first person to believe him was his wife. Most of the rest in his city showed great hostility to his message. He was challenged, ridiculed, threatened with death and had wars of annihilation waged against him and his supporters at every opportunity, yet from this one person (Mohammed) the band of believers grew and has carried on growing to over 1.3 billion Muslims today, spread in every part of the world. The compelling arguments of his message persuaded even some of his bitterest opponents to change sides. Jews, who adamantly rejected Jesus, found themselves not just recognising Jesus but accepting him as the Christ after embracing Islam.
Perhaps the following people from DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, who embraced Islam, were far more gullible than MvL:
A JEW who was an ARISTOCRAT and a RABBI in Mohammed's time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Salam.
A WRITER, nearer to our times, who not only embraced Islam but also translated the HQ into English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmaduke_Pickthall.
A famous BOXER http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali,
A CHRISTIAN PREACHER from Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_Estes,
A POP STAR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_Islam,
An INTELLECTUAL, lecturer at the prestigious Cambridge University in the UK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Winter,
A woman JOURNALIST captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yvonne_Ridley.
More people from OTHER DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_Islam this of course concerns itself only with the famous cases.
For Marmaduke Pickthall to have translated the HQ from the Arabic into English he must have studied it in minute detail and yet surprisingly he failed to see the awful horrors that jump at MvL from the pages of the HQ.
You might argue that Pickthall belonged to a different generation, but what about this guy in the video. Which HQ completely transformed him? Can’t be the one MvL uses to get his quotations from, can it?
.
by Kizz miazz on March 19th, 2008
Let's make this simple. If you want to be friend great. If you want to kill me, I will have to kill you first sorry. How's that?
by Firebrand on March 19th, 2008
It sounds awfully like the preaching of hatred and discrimination.
by Slim746 on March 19th, 2008
To me it means that Muslims are extremists and they cannot be trusted.
by borasalama on May 17th, 2008
I have been accused of not answering the question in the comment at http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/2800699 and I agree and have given my reason why. As Anonymous says in the comments to his top answer (http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/1299697) "the intent of the questioner is to stir up more anti-Muslim sentiment." He's not really interested in an answer.
You don't have to be a Muslim to know that Islam promotes peace and friendship. Any fair minded objective study will show you that. A glimpse of his biography would show you that Mohammed joined non Muslims in good works.
As the quote in the question is from the HQ let the HQ respond. Muslims were yearning for friendly relations with everybody and HQ 60:7-8 gives them hope saying "It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things); And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." The HQ explains the reasons for the limited prohibition in the next verse and tells them that "God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just." This is common sense. You wouldn't seek friendship and protection from those intent on destroying you and driving you out of your homes, would you?
by dr james on April 16th, 2008
actually there are at least 2 very diverse groups of muslims...
those who believe in love and mercy.
and those who believe in mercy killings.
its fairly evenly divided among the 2 camps.
unfortunately,even the more peaceful muslims will cover for their strong willed brothers.
better the brother i hate, than the infidel i might love.
by Happy-Dance on October 28th, 2008
seems pretty clear to me...but te muslims will try to dance around it..but i think we are all smart enough to understand what dont take them as friends means...
by Mohammad on October 6th, 2008
A Muslim can marry a Christian or Jewish women whom should be not only a friend but his love and most precious person. Then how do you think he is forbidden from having Christian or Jewish friends?????
The meaning here is in the believe, which means: Believer, take neither Jewish nor Christian's (Believe) and go astray from your believe, i.e. Keep your believe pure.
Taking one verse and interpret as one wishes doesn't work in Islam. Verses have to be understood in the light of:
1: The context (and whether it's a general rule of just for specific situation)
2: Other verses on the same topic
3: How Mohammad PBUH applied it in his life or sayings
4: The present situation (in a war is mostly different from peace and stuff like that)
by -O-uknow on April 21st, 2008
If true it means as I suspected. Islam.. "not" the religion of peace.
by SABOTEUR on March 20th, 2008
My first impression upon reading that is passage is beware of labels.
Who you ARE is not a label you assign to yourself. So while you may see yourself through the label you identify with, the true believer will see THROUGH the label and accept you as the "child of God" you truly are.
by miRi hates social norms and regulations on March 20th, 2008
first of all the friends word is mistranslated as protectors as specified above.
ok let's think of the context placed in the time it was "revealed" or "written" depending on what you believe when the city mecca was pretty much in some deep trouble because jews christians and muslims were all at odds against each other. it was a warning to not trust the hypocrites because they were trying to do each other in. it really isn't fair to think that the verse is condemning christians and jews - they are actually referred to as people of the book in that they follow all the prophets and whatever scripture the prophets had come down with [in the original context]
it really is a messy topic, i admit my ignorance to the situation, but the first time i read that verse i was highly offended and i had to do some reading.
i think i'll need to follow up on that, but thats what i'd found in a nutshell
by Abu Schmabu on March 19th, 2008
If "Awliya" really means "protector" as suggested above, then in this context (Muslims love context, so let’s be nice and consider it for them, shall we?), Muslims shouldn’t ask anyone to be their protector, including other Muslims. Thus the sura would make more sense if it read “Believers, take no human beings or animals or rocks or stones for your friends/protectors”. So why does it specify Jews and Christians?
The problem with these Muslims isn’t that they’re clever; it’s that they think the rest of us are complete idiots.
by Usama on June 20th, 2009
It is taken out of Context. I can it is written in Quran that you should not pray, but it actually says you should not pray in state of intoxication.
Like that you should read the whole translation it says
Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends and Protectors. They are friends and protectors of one and another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship and supports them shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers.
Allah does allow Muslims to befriend a Jew or Christian but it say if you seek their friendship and support them which means if you support their religion you shall become one of them
by Anonymous on June 15th, 2009
This verse is often quoted to indicate that Muslims are not allowed to befriend Non-Muslims. Verses 60:8-9 explain that this is not the case.
by Captain Birdseye on March 20th, 2008
Given that it was originally written in Arabic, by translating it into English you could probably make it mean anything you want it to mean to suit your own agenda.
by peterpam on March 20th, 2008
It clearly means that Jews and Christians are untrustworthy!
by Abu Schmabu on March 20th, 2008
I think that one positive result of the Islamic revival is that more and more non-Muslims are actually picking up the Koran and reading it and finding out for themselves what Islam is really like.
Thus you have people who still have their critical faculties going right to source, and discovering this truth…
…which is the tragedy of Islam, the only major world religion founded by a truly deplorable human being. I won’t say more – just read the book.
by Abu Schmabu on March 19th, 2008
That’s right. Just as in:
"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:104)
“Enemies” has been mistranslated. The verse should properly read “Seek out your enemas (and any other therapies appropriate to you, for Allah is most merciful!).
And keep on digging that Religion of Peace.
Pull the other one, it’s got a bell on it!
Abu Schmabu
by Seraphim Shinobi on August 31st, 2007
exactly what it says
by Cs01kh on April 22nd, 2008
I have found that someone has answered the question to my liking - so I have deleted my answer!
by Oscar_P459 on September 30th, 2011
Religion of peace? I wouldn't want peace if it mean a Muslim world.
Islam is today by far the worst of the Abrahamic faiths. It's still the stone age
http://tribune.com.pk/story/259907/girl-accused-of-blasphemy-for-a-spelling-error/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/muslim-husband-who-killed-his-wife-and-children-because-of-their-western-ways-437199.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11217772http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11217772
http://freemenow.wordpress.com/2010/07/25/epidemic-of-acid-attacks-on-islamic-women/
What sort of an insecure disgrace of a "man" needs to throw acid and permanently disfigure a woman who rejects him? Funnily enough you don't see any from Buddhists, Christians or Jews. A religion, no matter how much it may advocate "peace" or any noble goal, is no better than the sum of it's followers. As it stands, Islam is a vile curse upon the world.
by Anonymous on May 17th, 2008
it means that jews and christians are NOT our friends but our enemies.they despise us
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You're reading What does this Koran passage mean? "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." - Surah 5:51
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Comments
Thanks. But aren't there other verses that would tend to support the "mistranslation"? Like:
"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" - Surah 5:18
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." - Surah 3:19
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." - Surah 9:27-
"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." -Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88
by MvL on August 31st, 2007
Great answer. I lot of things get misconstrued in translation.
by Wickels on August 31st, 2007
Thanks, although it seems like my work was wasted effort. I'm not sure why I bother replying to questions like this, when it often turns out that the intent of the questioner is to stir up more anti-Muslim sentiment.
by inconsequential on August 31st, 2007
You can't stop them from stiring it. You did the best you can by giving an accurate answer. People will be able to see that.
by Wickels on August 31st, 2007
Todd, I'm really sorry - that was NOT my intent. But those other verses really DO seem to support what you remarked was a mistranslation, don't they? I'm not anti-Muslim. I'll be honest and frank and say I'm anti-faith. I don't like it that people pick and choose the few "good, friendly, peaceful" passages from either the Koran or the Bible and pretend that they can overshadow ALL the rest.
Check it out, I'm equal opportunity:
"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." - Numbers 31:17 (Moses)
" . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." - I Samuel 6:19
"'But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.'" - Luke 19:27 (Jesus)
by MvL on August 31st, 2007
Islam embraces Christians and Jews??? Did I read that right? just wondering...
by Anonymous on March 19th, 2008
Further, one thing just occurred to me - why doesn't it say that they also shouldn't be "protectors" of fellow Muslims? Surely God is their protector too. It's odd that it singles out Jews and Christians.
by MvL on March 19th, 2008
NB: capitals is NOT shouting
Though I have NOT read the verses, so I do not know if you have quoted the verses correctly AND IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT, here goes:
- "The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" - Surah 5:18 – Because Islam says, no human is sinless (even the prophets) and that god will judge every person on what they do on judgement day and does not give bias to race or (claimed) religion.
- "The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." - Surah 3:19 – if you THINK you are Jewish/christian but you have SUBMITTED to god’s orders (i.e. following his orders), you actually have become Muslim (as the Arabic word for Islam is derived from the Arabic word for ‘submission’, you have submitted to god!).
by Cs01kh on April 22nd, 2008
- "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." - Surah 9:27 I do not know what context this is written (it may be a direct message to the prophet, it may be in the context of war etc…)
- "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." -Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88 Islam says god was not born and does not have children (this is not direct against Christianity but any religion/person that claims that god has children)
by Cs01kh on April 22nd, 2008
Further, one thing just occurred to me - why doesn't it say that they also shouldn't be "protectors" of fellow Muslims? Surely God is their protector too. It's odd that it singles out Jews and Christians. – Because islam acknowledges Christianity and Judaism as the ONLY other religions sent by god (according to islam, all other religions are man made).
by Cs01kh on April 22nd, 2008
Why should we trust christians and jews as our protectors when they have not read the recitation of Allah by Mohammed (PBUH). Muslims are brothers and sisters, jews and christians are not. Where in the Qur'an does it say C and J are the only other religions sent by God?
by Theby on October 17th, 2008
Cs01kh, Still waiting for my answer which will be answer by you....?
by Theby on October 31st, 2008
The answer to your question Cs is this. There is that protector in this regard was based on familial and tribal control, also in current context presidency/king/dictator...if the person in charge is not Muslim, they will not be able to properly aid the Muslims that they are protecting. This is a scripture stating that, if given the option to have a Muslim in charge or a Christian, go with the Muslim for they will surely understand you better.
by Spengo on November 1st, 2008
Our only real protector is Allah.
by Theby on November 1st, 2008
I agree...the truest protector...I believe that the passage in the Koran was referring to people on earth looking out for one another though. I could be wrong but my understanding of this is that the people that are taking care of us and our families...and this breaks down even to husband and wife, need to be Muslim. The Koran states that men are to look after their wives, in this regard, Husbands are protecting their wives. That being said, if a Non-Muslim was "protecting" or looking after a Muslim, the Muslim might not be allowed to perform the 5 daily prayers if the person in charge does not believe in them.
by Spengo on November 1st, 2008
I hadn't thought of that. You make a good point. Thankyou.
by Theby on November 1st, 2008
Here is a translation from Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da‘wah and Guidance :
quran.al-islam.com/Targama/DispTargam.asp?nType=1&nSeg=0&l=eng&nSora=5&nAya=51&t=eng
.
USC has three translations side by side :
www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/005.qmt.html
.
by Yusuf Ali, Marmaduke Mohammad Pickthall, and M.H. Shakir.
.
The translation by Nessim Joseph Dawood also says "friends"
.
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi's "The Meaning of the Qur'an" says the proper understanding of the Arabic is "friends and confidants"
.
In fact every expert translation, those by Muslims included, says you're wrong.
.
So, just exactly who are *you* to claim that you are translating the Sura correctly?
.
by Ecclesiastes on June 18th, 2009
Blessings of Allah upon you Ecclesiastes. Though you have points I would like to take the time to counter, you have stepped into a 100% emotive place that won't allow for informed debate but pure argument. I will have no part in this. Peace upon you and yours.
by Spengo on June 19th, 2009
"wrongly translated"? what, god forgot to inspire the translators on the days they were translating words incorrectly. surely god wouldn't allow it to be translated incorrectly. there by avoiding all possibility of misquoting the koran, there by leaving no confusion for people to ponder over and argue about... and fight and kill for... how do you get to be so stupid anyway? it's the exact same story for the bible,no different,guess god had better things to do whilst they were translating that book aswell!?
by delinski on April 13th, 2010
I have just come across this post, over a year later, and find the subject fascinating. @Spengo, I do not understand why you state that the member named Ecclesiastes has "stepped into a 100% emotive place that won't allow for informed debate but pure argument..." From the outside observer position, it appears to me that Ecclesiastes has provided three sources with links and quotes to support his/her position. If it is not correct, if the sources are misquoted or if you have knowledge that the sources are not reputable and if you are able to correct those sources, I for one am interested in learning more. Your response appears that you are unable to counter, and hide behind your assertion that Ecclesiastes wishes only to argue; you ignore the citations he/she has provided. Forgive me for not being informed of your background and position; it is quite likely you are a subject matter expert and/or perhaps others are who post here as well. I would like to learn the various interpretations, and will read further on this subject matter on other discussions here. I have seen several of your contributions; I first made your acquaintance on a discussion of the Mosque near ground zero. It is not like you to quickly retreat, so you have aroused my curiosity. I wish you peace.
by Chicago Lady on October 12th, 2010
Chicago Lady, If you knew of the number of times Spengo has patiently countered Ecclesiastes' remarks on other threads only to be met with extremely offensive insults, you would understand Spengo's reluctance to engage with Ecclesiastes. It is not the subject Spengo is shying from, it is the predictable nature of Ecclesiastes' retorts.
by Theby on October 12th, 2010
Ecclesiastes, you said to Spengo, "In fact every expert translation, those by Muslims included, says you're wrong." You are the one who is wrong, Ecclesiastes. My link gives a detailed translation by various eminent Islamic scholars.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/friends.htm
by Theby on October 12th, 2010
@ Theby, thank you so much for your comment to me. No, I did not know about that. This is my first time seeing this; I really have not followed posts on this subject matter and was unaware of previous interactions. I appreciate your insight.
by Chicago Lady on October 12th, 2010
salaam chicago and theby. Yes, Eccles likes to take a point 3 miles from where it started and then point out that we are nowhere near our goal...with us nowhere near our goal, we clearly can't know what we are talking about and thus, we are wrong. It is a simple tactic of his/hers that has been going on for a long time.
I will explain it to you chicago as you seem, unlike eccles, capable of deducing simple logic and following a conversation.
In Arabic, the word used in Koran in 5:51 is Auliya. I am actually typing that as I see it in my Koran right now. If you translate the word Auliya from arabic to english at ANY translative website, you will see that it doesn't ONLY mean friend, but it does indeed mean friend AS WELL as protector and helper. It is a 100% correct LITERAL translation to say it means friend and if you do this, it is indeed a hostile passage. IF however, we apply both common sense and contextual understanding of the rest of the passage, we see that the entire chapter is about living a peaceful life as a Muslim and we are told by Allah that the best way to do this is to live with other Muslims as our protectors or to loosely translate, government officials, as this was written during a time of tribal warfare so government wasn't really existent.
If read as "friend" it is literal and hostile. If read as "protector" it is literal, contextual, and peaceful. Given that you have more than one marker of accuracy like this as well as the whole of the Muslim people saying it is supposed to be peaceful, it stands to logical reasoning that "protector" is the correct word to use here.
Ecclesiastes will now derail our conversation and take us miles away from this with useless posts and empty counterpoints.
by Spengo on October 12th, 2010
Or..........he might just stay silent for once.
by Theby on October 12th, 2010
Thank you, Spengo. It is kind of you to patiently take the time to explain this to me, and I appreciate the context. It makes perfect sense, as you tell it.
Upon reflection, I do not find either interpretation (friend or protector) offensive. There are numerous occasions in world history -- cultural, religious and historical, where groups of people are encouraged to trust those with similar beliefs and backgrounds, and to be cautious of strangers or outsiders. I do not perceive these admonitions as having hostile intent, but rather intended as sensible precautions to the groups and audiences to whom they were written and appropriate for the conditions and the times.
by Chicago Lady on October 13th, 2010