Mormons: If Adam & Eve couldn't procreate prior to the fall then why weren't they counted transgressors before eating the forbidden fruit, for failing to fulfill God's commandment to do so in Gen 1:28? Wasn't that the GREATER of the two commandments?

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• >When Christ was asked about the stories of the Old Testament He said (And please correct me if I'm wrong!) These things were written as examples<
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  Christ spoke of Adam as a historical figure and used examples from the Creation narrative as history.
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  >But I don't remember reading anything about which transgression was greater and how one would proceed the other<
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  Well you certainly didn't read in the Bible because it's not there. This is LdS dogma as one analyst has noted:
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

• "...remember that Adam and Eve were to eliminate sins of omission as well as commission (MF, p. 5). If the two commandments, one to multiply and fill the earth, and the other not to eat of the forbidden fruit, were in opposition so that they could not both be obeyed at the same time, and if the former was a greater commandment than the latter, then why were they not counted transgressors before eating the forbidden fruit, for failing to multiply? Why did that not incur the Fall? Indeed, why were they counted transgressors for breaking the lesser of the two commandments when, up to that time, they were failing to live up to the greater of the two, and had not even taken the first, most elemental step toward compliance?"
  http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=81618&catid=531
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

• OOOHHH. Well, that's different. I haven't read much from the book of mormon because instead of a burning in the bosom, I just got really bored. Anyway, I won't even go back and read it, now that I am reasonably sure the warning we got from Paul about another Gospel- may very well have referred to that. I won't say there isn't a bit of truth in it. If Satan is trying to offer men power and wealth to study it and ignore the Bible (you cannot serve 2 Masters) then there will have to be some truth in it for the hook.

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  by Anonymous on October 21st, 2009

• >instead of a burning in the bosom, I just got really bored<
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  LOL! And it came to pass that you weren't the first that the book had that effect on and you won't be the last.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

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• Wouldn't you think that it was the FIRST commandment issued that the time to fulfill it was then and there and then on an ongoing basis?
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  Just like NOT eating the forbidden fruit?
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  It really seems like your twisting scripture to fit LdS dogma rather than just letting it speak for itself.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 23rd, 2009

• It was a commandment that, by its very nature would take considerable time to fulfill. Nor was any time limit set on beginning it.
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  Did they, or did they not fulfil it?
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  I LET the scripture speak for themselves.
  And what I hear them saying is NOT what I hear you saying OF them.

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  by edndori on October 23rd, 2009

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  > Did they, or did they not fulfil it? <
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  If you take the text at face value, YES, they had intercourse - they knew how to make babies.
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  Specifics:
  - Genesis 1:28
  - Genesis 2:24&25
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  However it's unclear if the first baby was procreated before or after the fall.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 23rd, 2009

• And if unclear, then it is not evidence that procreation was possible for them before the fall.

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  by edndori on October 23rd, 2009

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  >And if unclear, then it is not evidence that procreation was possible for them before the fall<
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  LOL! Edndori your hermenuetics are incredibly hilarious! You can't even get what I say in context. The FULL context was:
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  A) The text is implicitly CLEAR that there was intercourse prior to the fall.
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  B) The text is implicitly UNCLEAR if any of those incidents of intercourse resulted in procreation.
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  C) "Unclear" means that the assertion can be neither be proven nor disproven from the text.
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  D) And the same is true for your assertion.
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  However, in the end, the LdS dogma that Adam and Eve had to fall in order to know how to "make babies" is discredited by the text.
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  Therefore, the credibility of LdS fall doctrine in general is now compromised.
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  As I have said again, again, and again: Joseph Smith was a LOUSY Bible Scholar as his fall doctrine demonstrates.

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 23rd, 2009

• You haven't a leg to stand on.
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  Those scripture don't even MENTION intercourse or procreation.
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  The first recorded intercourse and procreation occurred AFTER the fall.
  That suggests this was the first occurrence of each.
  While it does not rule out the conjecture that one or both occurred before the fall, neither does it provide any evidence to support such a notion.

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  by edndori on October 23rd, 2009

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  OK, your last post validates what I've suspected all along: Your not reading, let alone considering the evidence that I'm presenting to you.
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  It looks like I'm done here too. Again, I leaving because you're not listening and this is a frustrating, unproductive exercise NOT because I'm conceding a thing.
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  For the record, without LdS Scripture your interpretations are unsupported by the text.
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  -UNSUBSCRIBED-

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 24th, 2009

• I read it. And a fine wast of time it was, for you PRESENTED no evidence. You're frustrated because I'm not agreeing with you. You're leaving rather than admit even that much. Again.
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  For the record, your interpretations are unsupported by the text

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  by edndori on October 24th, 2009

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• OK, but that doesn't answer the question.
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  What is the answer to the question?
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

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• Thanks again for your opinion Capt!

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

• LMAO! Oh, you are MORE than welcome! : D

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  by CaptainHarley adores his life penguin on October 21st, 2009

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• Thank you. That's an interesting answer but it seems more like an opinion than anything authoritative.
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  Could you show us this from scripture?
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  And this question was direct to Latter-day Saints. Are you LdS?
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  Thanks.

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

• You are welcome. It is more than an opinion. God told me this. I know you think I am being flip but I do have the scripture.
  
  Next am I a LdS. Of course. I am all religions.

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  by Wind in the Willow on October 21st, 2009

• >God told me this<
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  OK, that and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee at Denny's.
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  A lot of people have say and do say "God told me" -- it's come to mean just about nothing because it's been so abused throughout the ages.
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  > I know you think I am being flip but I do have the scripture <
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  Great let's see it!
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

• You asked for it. Hang in there. Oh hungry one.

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  by Wind in the Willow on October 21st, 2009

• The Fall," in Christian doctrine refers to the transition of the first humans from a state of innocent obedience to God, to a state of guilty disobedience to God. In Genesis, Adam and Eve live first with God in a paradise, then deceived or tempted by the serpent to eat fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good/Evil, which had been forbidden by God. After eating, they become ashamed of their nakedness, and God consequently expells them from paradise. Romans 5:12-19 and 1 Cor. 15:21-22. .... with me at all so far?

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  by Wind in the Willow on October 21st, 2009

• There's more but first things first.

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  by Wind in the Willow on October 21st, 2009

• .
  Here's I'll do some heavy lifting here for you:
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  Romans 5:12-19 (New International Version)
  12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
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  14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
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  15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

• 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
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  18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

• 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 (New International Version)
  21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
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  And yes, so far, so good.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

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