Mormons: If the fall was such a blessing, then when Adam & Eve heard God walking in the Garden, why did they suddenly feel guilty and afraid, and try to hide from Him? Why didn't they run up to God and rejoice in starting "the plan" with Him instead?

Thank you for your honest answer. +6
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But don't you find it odd - even contradictory?
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One analyst put it this way:
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"And if this was such a blessing, then when they heard God walking in the Garden, why did they not go running to Him clapping their hands, breathless with excitement over fulfilling His plan, acquiring new knowledge, and initiating mortality? "Oh, Father! We have complied with Your greater commandment and are ready for procreation. Now the rest of Your children, our brothers and sisters, will have opportunity to enjoy the same wonderful benefits as us!"
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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

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Why, instead, did they suddenly feel guilty and afraid, and try to hide from God? Previous to that time they had no more idea of guilt than they did of right and wrong, so it could not have been a false, self-imposed guilt. It had to have been consciousness of the actual guilt of doing wrong. If their action was not sin, how did they acquire their sudden awareness of right and wrong (Genesis 3:7, 22)? Why did they seek to put blame on others and excuse themselves for their action if it was no sin?"
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=81618&catid=531

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

>God was clothed<
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More eisogesis? Please show us this in the text.
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>But evidently this is one of them<
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How so? How is nakedness in and of itself evil or sinful?
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>As for rejoicing over the plan of salvation, they had just acquired the ability to appreciate it<
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Yet again, where is this in the text?
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I don't think that being caught in sinful disobedience, cursed, and cast out of paradise was a reason to rejoice?
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And frankly I don't much to rejoice over in the Mormon Plan of Salvation. It is a heavy burden to bear - as the heavy use of anti-depressants in Utah (#1 in the country http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon64.html) demonstrates.
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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 23rd, 2009

Hmm...
Have you ever met anyone who believed God went walking naked in the garden of Eden?
Can you think of anyone else Adam and Eve would have gotten the idea of clothing from?
I can't.
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And I know you love that shiny toy word "eisogesis", but it's sharp, and you keep cutting yourself on it, and the sight of the blood makes me queasy. So please put it away someplace safe while we talk.
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Is nakedness evil or sinful?
We have only their reaction to it after they ate the fruit to go on, and it made them unhappy didn't it?
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Do you have to have everything spelled out for you?
They had just aquired the knowledge of good and evil.
Until they had that, how could they understand that God's plan is good?
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Being cast out of paradise is like the first day of school, uncomfortable and scary. But eventually you learn the value of your education, and are grateful for it.
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When did great gain ever come without hard work?
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There are three kinds of lies:
lies; damned lies; and statistics.

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by edndori on October 23rd, 2009

>Have you ever met anyone who believed God went walking naked in the garden of Eden?<
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Yes. Christian Theologians do.
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God doesn't need clothing and were we in a perfect environment neither would we.
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>Can you think of anyone else Adam and Eve would have gotten the idea of clothing from?<
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Yes, indeed. That amazing "computer" that God gave them called, "a brain".
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Endori, I've noticed that you have REAL hang up about nudity. Why is that?
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>Until they had that, how could they understand that God's plan is good?<
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Oh yeah, getting cast of paradise and cursed is WONDERFUL!
(please note heavy sarcasm)
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>Being cast out of paradise is like the first day of school, uncomfortable and scary<
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Yes, a day of school that keeps repeating every time a Woman bears a child in pain. Every time we have to work our fingers to the bone just to make ends meet. Every time a child dies needlessly. Every time a war erupts. Every time someone is tortured, or murdered, or raped.
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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 23rd, 2009

This is NOT what God intended. And to hold to the LdS stance that it is, candidly, borders on sadism.
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You guys are really amazing! Really.
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The orthodox Biblical stance explains WHY things are as they are. The LdS stance just seems cold, and unfeeling.
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It's really sad that you all don't see this.
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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 23rd, 2009

Obviously you don't trust God to come up with a good plan and carry it out without a hitch.
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I do. And I don't buy the notion that the thing got away from him and went out of control right at the beginning and he has been scrambling ever since to fix it.

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by edndori on October 23rd, 2009

>Obviously you don't trust God to come up with a good plan and carry it out without a hitch<
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Actually I have complete trust in God. However human beings - not so much.
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God wasn't the problem here.
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>I don't buy the notion that the thing got away from him and went out of control right at the beginning and he has been scrambling ever since to fix it<
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That is a caricature of both God and me.
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The fall is a mystery and I trust God enough to be comfortable with mystery.
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And that's what Joseph Smith preyed on like the world class con man that he was. Smith knew that fallen man - just like Adam and Eve - aren't content letting God be God and trust Him. Rather, fallen mankind HAS to know!
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So Smith concocted a bunch of "filler" lies that supposedly filled in the gaps of the mysteries that God has reserved for Himself.
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And the rest is history.

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 23rd, 2009

NOTE: If the reader has any doubt that God does indeed reserve mysteries for Himself please consider the passages provided by this search string: http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=mystery&version1=9&searchtype=all&bookset=2&limit=bookset

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 23rd, 2009

That's your take, and you're entitle to it.
But I don't buy it.

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by edndori on October 23rd, 2009

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As if your right and privilege.
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-UNSUBSCRIBED-

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 24th, 2009

Laie, you're -for-2 so far. NONE of this is in the Biblical narrative. Zero. Zip. Nada.
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>As for their immediate guilt, Adam and Eve were not ashamed of their nakedness until Satan pointed it out<
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Genesis 3
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
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6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
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Again: "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."
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The serpent did not point their nakedness out to them.
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As I keep reiterating these LdS "bolt on's" to the Biblical narrative are nothing more than classic eisogesis.
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The Biblical narrative simply does NOT support LdS Fall Doctrine.
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Sorry man - you know I love ya, but it's just not there!

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on October 21st, 2009

Mormon section, so I answered using LdS theology (including veiled references to the Endowment ceremony).

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by laie_techie on October 22nd, 2009

>They broke one of God's commandments, by partaking of the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil<

But they'd just unleashed the great plan of the gospel in doing so! Woo hoo!!!!

And if one believes your Theologians, they were in an unresolvable "double bind" that God had created by imposing two contradictory commandments on them. What a frakin' sadist!

Thus they did TWO wonderful things with one silly little transgression:

1) Made the "Plan of Salvation" possible. Hallelujah!

2) Overcome the painful cognitive dissonance created by God's sadistic double bind!

They should have had a party not slung away in shame!

>And now they were about to die, or thought as much, since God told them that would happen if they partook of the forbidden fruit<

But your Theologians ALSO tell us that Satan was actually not lying when he said:

'"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."'
-- Genesis 3:4&5

So if BOTH statements were TRUE and Adam and Eve believed them, again, they should have rejoiced, hopped up and down, and anxiously awaiting God to arrive to congratulate them for figuring out His silly little test!

And finally, I must say, Whew sometimes you just amaze with your inanity!

The "SHORT ANSWER/LONG ANSWER" format is a TECHNIQUE not a trick. If you truly believe it's a trick that you're just as paranoid as Edndori - maybe more so.

I find it amusing that you categorize scholarship and standard means of communications as "tricks". It's actually very funny - and indicative that you really need to get out of the LdS Church more often and discover the other "secret world" that's cleverly been hidden all around you in plain sight.

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by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 13th, 2009