The Pope and the Vatican
 
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Pope in Africa reaffirms "no condoms" against AIDS. Which chapter and verse is this position based on? See LINK:

By Jim in a Nautilus COAT Asked Mar 17 2009 1:40PM
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Top Answer out of 6

by urk on Mar 17, 2009 at 2:08 pm Permalink

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There is no chapter and verse to back it up. It's just more of the same archaic killjoy "if I don't get any, then no one gets any" nonsense spewed forth from underneath the papal baldachin.
Wake up Ratzinger! The marriage bed is undefiled! Hebrews 13:4
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Avatar Jim in a Nautilus COAT Mar, 17 2009 at 09:28 PM
Thanks, urk.
Avatar urk Mar, 17 2009 at 09:59 PM
Sure thing man.

Answer 2 out of 6

by LAoV - leaving AB - Please see profile on Mar 17, 2009 at 1:50 pm Permalink

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Most arguments against birth control are based on the story of Onan and his brothers.

Yep, it's ridiculous. Gotta love the religious movement that prefers to allow people to die so they can pretend sex doesn't exist outside Christian marriages.
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Avatar urk Mar, 17 2009 at 01:57 PM
Exactly. That argument is always taken out of context. God what not mad at him for "spilling," but for disobeying Him.
Avatar urk Mar, 17 2009 at 02:12 PM
Er... "God was not mad..." grr I give me a -5 for that one.
Avatar LAoV - leaving AB - Please see profile Mar, 17 2009 at 02:27 PM
Yep, I know.
One of the many reasons I'm no longer a Christian.

Answer 3 out of 6

by Suby the Coat on Mar 17, 2009 at 7:43 pm Permalink

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Faiths evolve and separate into different branches.
Some branches flourish.
But this branch could be a cul de sac.
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Avatar Jim in a Nautilus COAT Mar, 17 2009 at 09:30 PM
Ha! Well said.
Avatar Suby the Coat Mar, 17 2009 at 11:05 PM
AIDS epidemic is raging. But don't accept the one proven preventive meassure. What kind of logic is that? What do scriptures have to do with AIDS prevention and control?

Answer 4 out of 6

by ChrisDC on Mar 17, 2009 at 2:13 pm Permalink

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I'm not Catholic, so if I get this wrong, I apologize.

But as I understand it the idea is that sexual activity has one purpose, and one purpose only -- to create children. So having sex while employing birth control is seen as frustrating the basic purpose of the act.

I don't agree with this, by the way, but I like to understand the arguments of people who disagree with me.
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Avatar Jim in a Nautilus COAT Mar, 17 2009 at 09:30 PM
I believe you are right about the Pope's rationale, but I further agree that you're right, there is nothing in the Bible that justifies such a position.
Avatar ChrisDC Mar, 17 2009 at 09:57 PM
I'm assuming that it goes back to the idea that pleasure simply for the sake of pleasure is indulgent and wrong.
I'm a Christian myself (Methodist), but there are enough things in the Bible that you can pretty much cherry pick a verse here and a verse there to justify what you want. So I kind of have a skeptical eye toward that, while remembering that one corollary of that is that no one should believe he's right all the time. :-)
Avatar Jim in a Nautilus COAT Mar, 18 2009 at 06:30 AM
Well, you're certainly right about not believing you are right all the time. :)

Answer 5 out of 6

by Carpediem COAT ab imo pectore on Mar 17, 2009 at 6:15 pm Permalink

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The Roman Catholic Church has always sustained that sexual relations should only be for reproductive purposes, never the less they accept the rhythm method which is practiced by 96% of married Roman Catholics. Everything in life has an exception even by the strict Roman Catholic Church.

If a woman ovulates twice a month she can not follow the rhythm method or she will become pregnant no matter what. Lets say another couple can not have more children because the wifes health is very poor or the husband has some illness and his life expectancy is short, or any of the two have some hereditary trait that can be passed on to the children. In these cases one can and should obtain a dispense from the church and be allowed the use of contraceptives, this is done in absolute silence and great secrecy. I know of several cases as the ones described and they got their dispense.

Of course the idea is not to publish it or send a video to CNN, it is about doing what we are told but in absolute secrecy. The same goes for abortion, the church when addressing the masses will always say no, but there are great exceptions dealt with on a one by one case basis. The church will always help us if we do the right things at the right time and for the right reasons.
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Avatar Jim in a Nautilus COAT Mar, 17 2009 at 09:33 PM
Interesting. Now I also have to go looking for the place where the Bible assigns to any man the right to override the laws of God.
Avatar Carpediem COAT ab imo pectore Mar, 18 2009 at 12:50 AM
Non of what I said is in the Bible, the Bible is not a dictionary were you find what you need in alphabetical order, it is a matter of understanding, interpretation & theology. It's the prerogative of the Roman Catholic Church to make exceptions so authorized by the highest ranked Bishop or Archbishop in the Dioceses where the exception is requested. The same applies for marriage annulments.
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The Bible is more or less like the Constitution/Bill of Rights, written in general and broad terms but may be applied according to the legislators understanding if not then amendments will be required.
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The Bible is no different, remember when it was written & in those times many of todays issues did not exist such as AIDS, condones, contraceptives, abortion, divorce & others, thus are applied according to the best judgment of the local church authorities & who vote to apply the dispense or not.
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Continues....
Avatar Carpediem COAT ab imo pectore Mar, 18 2009 at 01:26 AM
If an agreement is not reached then the requested dispense will be send to the Vatican for consideration.
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The Bible does not assign "any man" the right to override the laws of God, an Archbishop, Bishop, Cardinal and others are not any man and they are not painted on a wall as decoration, they have severe responsibilities.
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Allow me to ask: If a woman marries a man by the Roman Catholic rite but is cheated regarding his sexuality, a month later she finds out who he truly is what is she supposed to do?
Remain married to this person? Obtain a divorce or request an annulment?
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Reasons: She was cheated into a wrongful & sinful marriage, she ignored the truth regarding her then husband to be, therefore she is free to ask for an annulment which must follow the established procedure according to the Roman Catholic Church.
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Mind you these issues are not easy. Many documents, medical certificates and many others including witnesses must be presented to begin the procedure.

Answer 6 out of 6

by bear on Mar 17, 2009 at 7:53 pm Permalink

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Not all teachings are based on scripture. There are 2 sources of truth, revelation (scripture) and reason. The Church teachings on human sexuality are based upon rational reflection, the love of the human person and the appropriate expression of human sexuality that brings about happiness for that person.
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Avatar bear Mar, 20 2009 at 06:09 AM
I don't think it can work like that as you are sending mixed messages. "Safe Sex" is a lie founded on falses pretenses of security and perpetuated by those who have less interest in saving the lives of Africans than they do in imposing their own secularist agenda. Besides, as I said, it's not only about AIDS but in changing sexually immoral behavior. The only way to truly stop the spread of the virus is to promote abstinence, marital fidelity and chastity (sexual virtue).
Avatar Jim in a Nautilus COAT Mar, 20 2009 at 08:50 AM
It has worked. Again, the studies show that education programs that include how to use condoms and their risks are far superior to education programs that stress abstinence only.
Avatar denidowi Mar, 23 2009 at 02:45 AM
Bear, I love your opening remarks [answer], Man.
And I dig your orientation: It's not about AIDS, but moral behaviour and chastity, and belief in the One who Created all things - both in Heaven and in earth - and who is our Father in Heaven.


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Pope in Africa reaffirms "no condoms" against AIDS. Which chapter and verse is this position based on? See LINK:

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