Scripture reference this please so I can read it in context and with the translation that I accept. (NIV)

The scripture is found in Gospel of John, 14:28 "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.” In my opinion, this scripture confirms the trinity.

The trinity is not "in" the Bible. It has been interpreted from inferences in the Bible. However, it is beyond me why many Bible Christians will insist that this is not true and that it actually is "in" the Bible. The belief actually originated with the Council of Trent.

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.” I would say yes.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Psalms 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH (YHWH), art the most high over all the earth. http://geocities.com/understand_the_trinity

Traditionally, Christian churches have taught that the three "persons" of the Trinity are equally God. But just as a high-ranking officer has some authority over, but is not more or less human than, a low-ranking soldier, the Father has some higher authority than the Son or the Spirit without being different in essence. Typically Trinitarians see "greater than" as somehow positional within the Trinity. There have been so many brilliant scholars and theologians over the last two millenia who, through countless hours of study, have found the the Trinity clearly taught in the Bible that the charge that there is any verse the Bible that "proves" the Trinity is wrong is not credible. There are obviously students of the Bible that interpret it otherwise, but claims that it is not a Bible teaching are either ignorant or dishonest. Obviously, it is possible to read the passages that Trinitarians use as proof differently and the passages that opponents cite as contradiction, likewise, can be understood differently. I think I understand in part why some people can not accept the concept, but it is unfortunate that some feel the need to attack people who accept the Trinity instead of accepting the idea that sincere students of the Bible might not agree with them.

Trinitarians dont forget about Isaiah 9:6 which says that Jesus will be known as "the everlasting Father", this verse is one of many that discredits the trinity, Trinity = MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT

1 John 5:7,8 is very clear about the Trinity. Also read Genesis 1, they helped each other create the Heavens and the earth. John 1:1 is also another good reference. The Father is greater than Jesus, but they are still ONE. Spirit, water and blood. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

People, who believe in unbiblical doctrines like Trinity, have one big problem: they do not believe in bible as only inspired authority. There is no need to prove or disprove the doctrine of Trinity. Simply, if something does not mention in bible, IS unbiblical. The word Trinity does not appear in bible. There is no definition, no explanation of it. But people can make Trinity an indirect biblical teaching. How? Trough putting different bible verses together, make a conclusion and base their faith on it. This is the same mistake which was made by church leaders in 4th and 5th century. by the way; i am not a JW.

Trinitarianism has always been one of the most controversial, and bitterly disputed, concepts in Christian theology. I don't have a dog in this fight, so I offer no personal opinion. If you want to read about the history of trinitarian and anti-trinitarian thought, give this a try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitarianism

No, it doesn't. When he says that, he means God.

no..it just means that God the Father is the most important part and the greatest part of the Trinity.

I believe that when Christ said this He was saying that the Father is greater in position, but not in divinity. the Father, Christ the Son , and the Holy Spirit all share the same Deity. Isaiah 43:11 teaches us that God is the only Saviour, so if The Bible calls Jesus our Saviour, and if Jesus is suppossedly not God, then the Bible would be contradicted itself and we would be calling God a liar. John 1:1 says that Jesus was God. Watchtower tries to say that it's really suppossed to say "a" God when it says "...and the Word was God." However, that would be contradictory because God said in Isaiah 44:6 that beside Him there is no God. In Isaiah 9:6, not only is Jesus Christ called the everlasting Father, but also He is called "the Mighty God". You see, to deny the Deity of The Lord Jesus is to deny the Scriptures and their infallibility. There are also many places in the Bible that support the Deity of the Holy Ghost as well. I hope this helps, thank you and God bless you!

If you really want an answer to your question about the devinity of Jesus, then here goes. Christianity during Jesus time did not teach that. Matter of fact Jesus even said that after he was gone, many of his teachings would be corrupted. Notice: "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." - ACTS 20:29,30 "However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances..." - 1 Timothy 4:1 The Trinity Trinity (definition) – That the Father, the Son (Jesus), and holy ghost are all together god, each eternal, each almighty, and none greater of less than the other. The belief that Jesus Christ is god, is based on the idea of the trinity. But if you take a look at the history of this teaching: First the word trinity or the teaching is never found in the bible. Also the Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the belief of the trinity or that Jesus was god or was part of god did not even exist until two to three hundred years after the death of Jesus. The Encyclopedia Americana says - “Fourth century Trinitarianism was a deviation from early Christian teaching.” This teaching was adopted into “Christianity” from pagan religions from Egypt, Babylon, from Hinduism, and even from the philosopher Plato that taught the trinity belief 400 years before Jesus. Finally the trinity became the central teaching of the church not because of the bible but because of the order of the Roman Emperor Constantine who was pagan himself. He really couldn’t care less about bible teachings but only wanted to end the debate between church leaders to keep unity in his kingdom. After he made that decision in the year 381, anyone that openly disagreed with the trinity were violently persecuted or killed with the permission of the church. Back to the Scriptures After that history lesson In reading the bibles record of Jesus, Jesus never claimed to be God or any part of God. Everything he said about himself indicated that he did not consider himself equal to God in any way – not in power, not in knowledge, or age. The bible calls Jesus “the only-begotten Son” of God (John 1:14; 1 John 4:9) - First off, John 1:18 – “No man has seen God at any time…” (The bible says no man has ever seen god but thousands saw and interacted with Jesus during his earthly life.) - God has no beginning and no end. Psalms 90:2 – “…even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.” But the bible says that Jesus was “the firstborn of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15) Also see (Revelation 3:14) Unlike God, Jesus was created and had a beginning. - Notice another scripture. When a man came to fall at Jesus’ feet and then called him “Good Teacher”, Jesus said to him at Mark 10:17, 18 “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.” (If Jesus himself was god would that statement make any sense? Jesus always directed any praise to god, not to himself.) - John 14:28 – “The Father is greater than I.” (Jesus talking) - 1 Corinthians 11:3 - “…the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (The bible always talks of God of being superior in power to Jesus.) - Philippians 2:6 – “…Jesus Christ, who, although he was existing in God’s form (as a spirit in heaven) gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” - Also 1 Timothy 2:5 Says that the disciples viewed Jesus as the “one mediator between God and men,” not as God himself. A mediator is obviously someone separate from those who need mediation, not part of one of the two parties that need mediation. ---That’s just a short list of the many accounts since I did want to make this to long--- But the bible is clear and consistent about the relationship of God to Jesus. Jesus Christ always distinguishes himself from God and showed that he never desired to be seen or worshipped as god. That he only wished to do the will of his father. Consider Psalms 83:18 – “That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the most high over all the earth.” Isaiah 12:2 – “Look! God is my salvation. I shall trust and be in no dread; for Jah Jehovah is my strength and my might, and he came to be the salvation of me.” Jesus stressed the importance of his father’s name at John 17:26 – “I have made your name known to them and will make it known.” Even in Jesus model prayer: - Matthew 6:9 – “YOU must pray, then, this way: “Our Father in the heavens let your name be sanctified…” Another thing Many people don’t know that when they say Hallelujah, it means “praise Jah” short for Jehovah. Even Jesus’ name itself means “Jehovah is Salvation” The mother of the prophet Moses was named Jochebed, which means “Jehovah Is Glory” The prophet Joel in the bible, his name means, “Jehovah is God” The prophet Elijah in the bible name means “My God Is Jehovah” Isaiah’s name means “Salvation of Jehovah” Hezekiah, Josiah, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Zechariah and Zephaniah all are well-known Bible names whose meanings involve Jehovah, or Jah, the shorter poetic form of Jehovah’s name. Even many people’s names today have Jehovah in their meaning: Johnson means “Jehovah has favored” The name Jonathan means, “Jehovah has given” Joshua means, “Jehovah is salvation” or “Jehovah rescues” Jacqueline, Jackie, Jacquelyn, John and Jack means, “Jehovah has been gracious” Chanya means “The Grace of Jehovah” Kayla means “Jehovah has given” Joey means "Jehovah increases" Jesse means “Jehovah exists” Jeremiah and Jeremy means “appointed by Jehovah” Josiah means “Jehovah supports” Joe or Joesph means “May Jehovah give increase” Jane, Jan, Janelle, Janet, Janice, Janie, Janine, Joan, Joanne, Jodie, Joni, Jonie, Joanna, Johannah all are variations that mean “Jehovah is gracious” One last thing: Also remember that “god” is not a name, it’s a title. Just like “boy” or “king”, “God” and “Lord” are titles, “God” is anything you choose to worship. Your money can be your “God”, your possessions can be a “God”, but the only God the bible points to is Jehovah, God’s name. ---Explanation of pictures--- -The "Christian" Trinity was just a pagan befief that was incorporated into the church hundreds of years after Christ. The pictures are of the Hundu trinity, then the ancient Egyptian trinity, and finally the "Christian" trinity. -An ancient painting of the scene in Nicaea when Emperor Constantine made his decision-

Are you trying to argue religion with logic? good luck with that pal.

If you read the "new world translation of the holy scriptures" burn it!!! There were many altercations made by the bible tract society, compare Jn 1:1 to all the other trusted translations.

Not at all, Christ is subject to the Father in rank and authority, not in substance of being.

Jesus also said, in response to "show us the Father", "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father".

No. The doctrine of the Holy Trinity states there is one true God who is made up of three separate but equal persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Bible does not contain the word Trinity. However, the Holy Trinity is hinted at repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments. For many biblical references, see: http://www.cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/Trinity.txt Under the influence of the Holy Spirit, the early Christians prayed and struggled over these hints for a couple of centuries. The concept of the Holy Trinity (three equal persons in one God) was mainstream Christianity in 325 C.E. at the Council of Nicaea and our belief is expressed in the Nicene Creed. How this works is not fully known and is one the Christian mysteries. The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is shared by most Christian denominations including Roman and Orthodox Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Episcopalians, and the Salvation Army. There is a story told about St Augustine: Augustine was walking along the seashore trying to figure out the mystery of the Holy Trinity and came up to a little boy. The boy was trying to pour the ocean into a hole in the sand with a seashell. Augustine told the boy what he was doing was impossible. Then the little boy told Augustine that it is also impossible for the mind of man to try to understand the mystery of the Holy Trinity. The little boy turned into an angel and disappeared. For more information, see Catechism of the Catholic Church, sections 232 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p2.htm#232 The major non-Trinitarian churches are Christadelphianism, Christian Science, Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Arian Catholicism, Unitarianism, Nontrinitarianism, and Oneness Pentecostals. With love in Christ.

John 14:28 Previous Verse John 14:28 Next Verse Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. Note 41 at Jn. 14:28: Jesus is saying that if the disciples were thinking of Jesus more than they were thinking of themselves, they would be happy that Jesus was returning to the Father. This is always the case when a believer is taken from us in death. There is no reason to sorrow for the one who is gone; he is blessed beyond measure. Our sorrow is really for ourselves. Even from a selfish standpoint, the disciples had no reason to grieve because Jesus would return to them through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. As He explained in the next few minutes, it was actually more advantageous to the disciples for Jesus to leave and send back the Holy Spirit (see note 75 at Jn. 16:7, p. 440). Note 42 at Jn. 14:28: Jesus had already stated His union with the Father so clearly that He had been accused of blasphemy more than once (see note 3 at Jn. 10:30, p. 280). This statement about the Father being greater than Jesus must harmonize, not contradict these other claims. A key to understanding this is given in Philippians 2:6-8 where Paul states that Jesus didn't think it robbery to be equal with God but humbled Himself, taking on the form of a servant (speaking of His humanity). Jesus was equal to God in His divine nature but He made Himself inferior to the Father in regards to His humanity. Jesus didn't lose any of His deity when He became a man, but He did clothe it in flesh and submitted to the consequent limitations. In this sense, the Father was greater than Jesus. Privacy Policy © 1997-2008 Andrew Wommack Ministries Home | Bible Commentary | Devotionals | TV Broadcasts | Radio Broadcasts | Store | Extras | Bible College Donations | Partnerships | Meetings | Broadcast Schedule | About Us | Contact Us | Jobs

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. Galatians 1:11-12 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that the Bible was "breathed out" by God. Galatians 1: 11-12 tells us that the gospel was a revelation from Jesus Christ himself, which was recorded by Jesus disciples and Paul. God himself chose the disciples and the people whom He knew were going to spread His word and write the Bible. The Bible was written by approximately 40 men of diverse backgrounds over the course of 4000 years. Despite being penned by different authors over 40 centuries, the Bible does not contradict itself and does not contain any errors. The authors all present different perspectives, but they all proclaim the same one true God, and the same one way of salvation—Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). In John 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" The above verse speaks a lot about who Jesus really is. All about Jesus and the Holy Trinity explained in the below website. http://jesustrinity.blogspot.com Lots of videos, sermons, songs are also present, along with all of Jesus miracles, his parables, and questions on his birth, crucifixion, resurrection are answered. Many major questions on Christianity are answered with lot of examples that cannot be denied by anyone, such as, 1) Did Jesus really exist? Is He God? Why did He suffer on the Cross? 2) What is so special about Jesus? Why cant I just view him as an ordinary man or a teacher or a prophet? Why should I see him as God? Pasting a small part from the website. Visit the website to strengthen your faith in Jesus or to know more about Him. Jesus is God. 1.Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28 (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.) 2. Jesus is God in Heb. 1:8 3. John the apostle states that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1-14) 4. The phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) Jesus is God in flesh 5. The apostle John says that Jesus was , "…calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18) 6. Jesus said that He and the Father are One (John 10:30), that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God. 7. Jesus knew all things (John 21:17) 8. Jesus knew all men (John 16:30) 9. Jesus is everywhere (Matt. 28:20) 10. Jesus Christ, dwells in you (Col. 1:27) 11. Jesus is the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3) 12. Jesus is eternal (Micah 5:1-2) 13. Jesus gives eternal life (John 10:27-28) 14. Jesus is our only Lord and Master (Jude 4) 15. Jesus is called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) 16. Jesus is called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and "God" also be called the Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21 17. Jesus is able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21) 18. Jesus created all things (Col. 1:16-17), it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:24) 19. Jesus searches the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23) 20. Jesus is worshiped (Matt. 2:2-11; Matt.14:33; Matt.28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) Only God can be worshipped (Matt. 4:10) (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.) 21. In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3;Exodus 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58. 22. Jesus claimed the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58 see Exodus 3:14. 23. Jesus says you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23). 24. Jesus gives life (John 5:21). 25. Jesus bears witness of Himself (John 8:18;John 14:6). 26. Jesus is the One who will judge you on judgement day (John 5:22-23). Only God can be the judge. 27. Jesus forgives sins (Luke 5:20) (Luke 24:47,Acts 10:43) .Only God can forgive sins. http://jesustrinity.blogspot.com

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. Galatians 1:11-12 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that the Bible was "breathed out" by God. Galatians 1: 11-12 tells us that the gospel was a revelation from Jesus Christ himself, which was recorded by Jesus disciples and Paul. God himself chose the disciples and the people whom He knew were going to spread His word and write the Bible. The Bible was written by approximately 40 men of diverse backgrounds over the course of 4000 years. Despite being penned by different authors over 40 centuries, the Bible does not contradict itself and does not contain any errors. The authors all present different perspectives, but they all proclaim the same one true God, and the same one way of salvation—Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). In John 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" The above verse speaks a lot about who Jesus really is. All about Jesus and the Holy Trinity explained in the below website. http://jesustrinity.blogspot.com Lots of videos, sermons, songs are also present, along with all of Jesus miracles, his parables, and questions on his birth, crucifixion, resurrection are answered. Many major questions on Christianity are answered with lot of examples that cannot be denied by anyone, such as, 1) Did Jesus really exist? Is He God? Why did He suffer on the Cross? 2) What is so special about Jesus? Why cant I just view him as an ordinary man or a teacher or a prophet? Why should I see him as God? Pasting a small part from the website. Visit the website to strengthen your faith in Jesus or to know more about Him. Jesus is God. 1.Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28 (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.) 2. Jesus is God in Heb. 1:8 3. John the apostle states that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1-14) 4. The phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) Jesus is God in flesh 5. The apostle John says that Jesus was , "…calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18) 6. Jesus said that He and the Father are One (John 10:30), that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God. 7. Jesus knew all things (John 21:17) 8. Jesus knew all men (John 16:30) 9. Jesus is everywhere (Matt. 28:20) 10. Jesus Christ, dwells in you (Col. 1:27) 11. Jesus is the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3) 12. Jesus is eternal (Micah 5:1-2) 13. Jesus gives eternal life (John 10:27-28) 14. Jesus is our only Lord and Master (Jude 4) 15. Jesus is called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) 16. Jesus is called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and "God" also be called the Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21 17. Jesus is able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21) 18. Jesus created all things (Col. 1:16-17), it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:24) 19. Jesus searches the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23) 20. Jesus is worshiped (Matt. 2:2-11; Matt.14:33; Matt.28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) Only God can be worshipped (Matt. 4:10) (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.) 21. In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3;Exodus 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58. 22. Jesus claimed the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58 see Exodus 3:14. 23. Jesus says you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23). 24. Jesus gives life (John 5:21). 25. Jesus bears witness of Himself (John 8:18;John 14:6). 26. Jesus is the One who will judge you on judgement day (John 5:22-23). Only God can be the judge. 27. Jesus forgives sins (Luke 5:20) (Luke 24:47,Acts 10:43) .Only God can forgive sins. http://jesustrinity.blogspot.com