What do you think about Alcoholics Anonymous?

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• Great answer! +4 (because thats all I can give!)

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

• 4+ for you

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  by Long Shot on October 16th, 2008

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• Maybe try another group. Some groups are solution oriented and others sadly arent. Thanks for you answer and good luck!

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

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• Long Shot - you couldnt of said it better ;)

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  by catwomanseven on October 16th, 2008

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• For those that don't there are 12 steps to follow, only 12. They are good for living life, take alcohol out of it and put life in place of it and it works for dealing with day to day BS.
  13th step is some people go to meeting to find dates. THAT IS WRONG.

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  by Long Shot on March 16th, 2008

• Thanks, Long Shot, I did not know that.

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  by Yarnlady is happy every day on March 16th, 2008

• Finding dates at an AA meeting:
  
  The odds are good but the goods are odd.

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  by Anonymous T. Jackson on January 11th, 2009

• Yeah I need someone as f/u as I am . Now that's a real start. But, there are some with years both being sober that make very good couples but that's not what I'm are talking about.

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  by Long Shot on January 11th, 2009

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• I agree, thanks!

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

• If you get to Memphis come to Area 51 on Highway 51 in Frazer (house in back) 6pm 7days a week. The place is full of drunks laughing, kidding, studying and have a good ole time.

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  by Long Shot on October 16th, 2008

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• I disagree. A cult wants all your belongings and tells you how to think and act. AA does not do this. It is free. It lets you decide what parts of it you want to use and you are free to use them or not use them, as you wish. The program is suggested, no one has to follow any rules or conform in any manner.

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

• It fulfills all of the major criteria for any cult group and it's woeful success rate does not justify it's indoctrination and methods. Also, something being suggested is not as passive as it sounds. The power of suggestion, in any cult environment is a very potent force, as any psychologist who deals with former AA members can tell you. And, btw, members of cults do not realize until it is too late that they are in fact in a cult. It's a common paradigm.

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  by Anon y mouse on March 15th, 2008

• No it actually doesnt. Nothing is demanded of anyone. No one has to belive anything or conform to anything. You do not have to give any money. You do not have to think the same as any one else.
  There isnt any indoctrination. You dont have to do or be anything.
  There are many different views about everything in AA and thats ok. You dont have to think or anything because someone else does. You do only what you want to do. You go only as often as you want to.
  It does have a poor rate of sucess but it still has helped over 2 million people. Probably people who who could be helped no other way.

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

• Christianity could be called a cult but I agree with Deni.

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  by Long Shot on March 16th, 2008

• I agree with Deni. AA is not a cult.
  Scientology is cult. The Branch Davidians (Waco) were a cult. Cult expert Rick Ross even calls the Westboro Baptist Church (Fred Phelps and co) a cult.
  From: http://www.rickross.com/faq.html
  "Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:
  1) A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.
  2) A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.
  3) Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie."

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  by Jodie44 on March 16th, 2008

• Hmmm, I've never heard of Jay Lifton and I trained as a psychologist, specializing in dealing with ex cult members. You might want to check out Dr Jeffrey A. Schaler's work on AA, as well as that of Alexander F. Rollins, Arthur Cain and R. Tournier. These links might help clarify why AA meets the major criteria to qualify as a cult, including it's use of religious ideology to disempower and victimize members, the prevalance of "cult speak" and the lack of questioning of a system that, by any creditable standard, just plain does not work for the majority of alcoholics:

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  by Anon y mouse on March 16th, 2008

• http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_a0.html
  
  http://oldweb.uwp.edu/academic/criminal.justice/aacult01.htm
  
  http://www.schaler.net/fifth/cultbusting.html
  
  http://www.moonmac.com/Cult_Called_AA.html
  
  http://www.positiveatheism.org/rw/ofcourse.htm
  
  http://www.peele.net/lib/denial.html
  
  http://www.wheremostneeded.org/2007/05/aa_group_accuse.html

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  by Anon y mouse on March 16th, 2008

• Interesting. Doesn't change my opinion at all. Nice try, though.

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  by Jodie44 on March 16th, 2008

• There were some untruths in there. maybe some were just lies but not all of it. It didn't change me. I've studied cults for years as a P.O. and I don't see AA as a cult. But I see some do. So be it.

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  by Long Shot on October 16th, 2008

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• AA is the best 12-step program available in the US for alcoholics who want, need and are court ordered to rectify their life , and improve their mental status with this great chance since it is free and is backed by sponsors.

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  by djkphxaz on March 27th, 2008

• +++++ for DV8Donn. He is absolutely right. It is for quitters. People who want to quit. So whoever DR'ed him may not have understood. Don't be so quick to judge.

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  by Anonymous on June 24th, 2008

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• Its not religious but it is spiritual. If they are preaching religion or speak of Jesus (means they are Christians)you need to find another group. AA is for everyone, you just need a higher power, it doesn't haqve to be God.

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  by Long Shot on March 15th, 2008

• i've never been in an AA prog [thankfully, i'm still quite young]
  
  but those i know that have, it's always been a christian thing. it worked for some and not for others. but it seems that while it may not always be a christian thing, it usually gets automatically associated with it. some people prefer to think that the control is in their hands and accept the responsibility. and the faith in christ part intimidates them. it's hard enough being judged as an alchoholic, but when you jump in and try to resolve one problem, it doesn't help when that support group judges you for another aspect - lack of christian faith.
  
  i guess i wish there were just some non spiritual support groups just so they could have somewhere to go too

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  by miRi hates social norms and regulations on March 15th, 2008

• Long shot is right. If they are talking about Jesus then it is not AA! There are some 12 step church groups as AA has loaned its 12 steps to everyone that wants to use them but they have asked that those groups do not call themselves AA. Make sure your friends went to a real AA group and if they did ant they were talking about Jesus they dont know what AA is supposed to be. And that is truly sad. Hopefully there is another group around that follows AA's program and does not practice any religion.

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

• i hope so too. i mean i like religious orgs that invite, but i don't like compulsion or intimidation, so i hope there are other non religious groups out there too

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  by miRi hates social norms and regulations on March 15th, 2008

• I have been in AA for over 20 years and I do not do the Jesus thing at all. AA is supposed to be non religious but you know how some people have to force their views on everyone no matter where they are. I hate that people think thats what AA is instead of realising its just the person talking there. Sometimes that can run off some people who could really use the help. Its sad.

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  by Deni on March 16th, 2008

• i know they're not all like that i just wish that wasn't the immediate thought that went with it u know? because that does intimidate ppl and it's not fair when they need help too but are afraid to go because theyre afraid of the conversion thing and it's not always like that.

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  by miRi hates social norms and regulations on March 16th, 2008

• AA in no way is associated with Christianity. Christianity deals with Christ or God as Jesus. Jesus is not mentioned in any AA literature neither is he endorsed at any meetings.

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  by val gal on June 25th, 2008

• I will stop anyone bringing religion into a meeting, you never know who you might offend and maybe run out. If your group keeps bringing in religion or Christ then find a new meeting they are following the traditions.

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  by Long Shot on October 16th, 2008

• val gal u n Houston?

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  by Long Shot on October 16th, 2008

• The Woodlands

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  by val gal on October 18th, 2008

• why do you ask long shot?

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  by val gal on October 20th, 2008

• Know anyone in Frazer? I've been away from the net for a week sorry not to get back any sooner.

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  by Long Shot on October 24th, 2008

• You seem like someone that might be into Art. :)

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  by Long Shot on October 25th, 2008

• Isn't everyone?

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  by val gal on October 29th, 2008

• I thought I might know you from Memphis. I have a big lake you've might have fished in.

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  by Long Shot on October 29th, 2008

• Oh yes. The big lake. The fish.

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  by val gal on October 30th, 2008

• my email is wsh@bigriver.net and good to hear from you.

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  by Long Shot on October 30th, 2008

• I don't think I'm the person you are looking for although I am very interesting.

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  by val gal on October 31st, 2008

• If you want you can email me and I'll tell the reason behind why I thought you were someone else. It's really odd. Her and S/O moved to Houston.I'm pretty safe.

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  by Long Shot on October 31st, 2008

• I feel like I have let you down by not living up to being the person you thought I might be. I'm sorry. I haven't been to Memphis Tennessee but I have been to Memphis in Egypt. You were talking about Tennessee right.

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  by val gal on October 31st, 2008

• Yes, That's ok, Her name's Val and is a friend of bill's and if you have red hair I'll pass out. LOL

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  by Long Shot on October 31st, 2008

• blonde

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  by val gal on November 2nd, 2008

• Thanks, I would have freaked out. I let her and her S/O stay at my house for a while until they got on their feet. I thought Val, TX and I figured wrong. Thanks and I see that we think a lot the same way by your answers, so Good Luck and Bless you and Yours.

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  by Long Shot on November 2nd, 2008

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• I have found just the opposite there. I was full of self loathing when I got there but after working the program I have lost all of those feelings. Today I feel great about who I am and my life. Thanks for you answer.

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

• Deni- your right on line about the self loathing. Most people that feel that way just didn't stay until the miracle happened. That is when you get rid of self loathing. You didn't get to be a drunk overnight and it will take a little while to get sober. Also Dry is not Sober. I'm off my soap box.

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  by Long Shot on October 16th, 2008

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• That is correct and AA even says that they are not the only way.

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  by Deni on March 16th, 2008

• Long Shot, AA never claims to be the only way. RARELY does a person fail if they thoroughly follow our path.

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  by val gal on August 14th, 2008

• That's right. That's the reason I posted that. I've been around a few 24's.

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  by Long Shot on August 18th, 2008

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• All excellent points. I've been through treatment many times, back in the day. NA,AA, the works. What I really learned was you won't stop drinking/drugging until YOU are ready. Unfortunately some people use AA/NA as a crutch. You've got to walk on your own, sometime. Not everything in life is conducive to your sobriety. Sometimes you have to "man up" and do what you've got to do. AA or not....If it works for some....Cool!

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  by eric on March 15th, 2008

• You also have to honestly assess if you have an addiction. I was fortunate enough to not have an addiction. Alcohol was something that I enjoyed. A good wine a hearty beer, but I could leave it. In my case it was life or death. My wife would kick my ass if I died!

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 15th, 2008

• In your case, you weren't an alcoholic or drug addict. Didn't you get the felling that some people were using AA as a crutch though?

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  by eric on March 15th, 2008

• Yes, that's why I mentioned that it was trading one addiction for another.

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 15th, 2008

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• Huh?

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 15th, 2008

• please ask the ab staff to translate, thanks.

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  by Chris on March 15th, 2008

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• No it doesnt force you to believe anything. You can pick a hihger power to be whatever you want it to be. It can be whatever YOU believe in, regardless of what anyone else believes in. If you were forced to think something then that was not a group that follows the traditions of AA. I am sorry you had to go through that. Maybe try another group, one that really works AA. There shouldnt be any religion in it.

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

• Yeah, seen AA, it's "You have to accept god to get better."
  Sorry.

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  by Fox Happy on March 15th, 2008

• The AA groups that I know of states Higher Power, not "GOD". That power can be anything you want it to be. It's a step because you have to relize that there are greater things beyond yourself. If not, there's really no reason to even get sober.

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  by brandy on March 15th, 2008

• Deni, they do tell you that you have to accept a higher power. And they tell you that if you don't want to say god, you can say dog.

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 15th, 2008

• Brandy, I'm an athiest, and I don't drink for health reasons. I didn't need AA or a "higher power" to stop drinking. I just needed to have a doctor tell me that I have a liver problem and should not drink. Done!

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 15th, 2008

• hmm, OK I didn't say you did. You stated that AA forces you to partake in a religion and all I said is it didn't. I think its good you don't need AA. A lot of people aren't that lucky. Some actually need others empathy to help them through tough times.

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  by brandy on March 15th, 2008

• Yeah that was actually me who said AA forces you to be religious. Which, it does.

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  by Fox Happy on March 16th, 2008

• No it doesnt. No where in the AA literature does it say you have to accept God. It actually says you can pick your own conception of a higher power or power greater thatn yourself. That may just be the group itself as it can stay sober when an alcoholic can not. That would be a power greter that myself. If you read the literature you will see what AA really is. I do not do religion or the Jesus thing at all and have been in AA for over 20 years. I have an athiest friend in AA as well.

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  by Deni on March 16th, 2008

• I never said religion, I said higher power, and that you have to accept that you have no control. I have control, and it is not due to a higher power. Go to AA's website and read "The Big Book". They address the god issue, but they still refer to a higher power. They are skirting around the topic.

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 16th, 2008

• In your original answer you said "it forces you to accept a religion." I am simply stating it does not.
  I have read the big book many times and I have served at the general service conference. They do say a higher power but they allow you to choose that power. It can be God or the group or anything. They are not skirting around the issue, they are allowing each member to choose for themselves what that higher power is.

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  by Deni on March 16th, 2008

• I never said it forces you to accept a religion. I just read through all of my answers and comments. I did say that they mention god in the literature, and that they require you to accept that there is a higher power. My only use of the word religion, is that I mentioned that I had left religion quite some time ago.

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 16th, 2008

• It was in your original answer. But hey, no big deal. I just wanted to clarify. If you tried it and got told that kind of stuff, I am truly sorry. And since you quit on your own thats great. I wish you only the best!

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  by Deni on March 16th, 2008

• Thanks. I'll read through it again. But what I saw was really more depressing than potentially helpful. I'm just glad that I am not addicted.

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 16th, 2008

• Me too, your very lucky. AA isnt for everyone. But for those it helps it is the most wonderful program around. Very full of fun and laughter. But to each his own and I am sure there are some who feel as you do... Good luck

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  by Deni on March 16th, 2008

• I agree it can help people. No question there. The one meeting I went to was about as full of fun and laughter as a funeral. I'm good. Not had a drink in about four years. I do enjoy the smell of a good wine or beer (bit of a foodie). So when someone orders a beer or wine I've not tasted or smelled before, I ask if I can smell it. And I am usually dead on with the type of hops and grains or the grape variety and fermentation processes. I like the gastronomic perspective, not the getting drunk perspective.

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 16th, 2008

• Dang I hate to hear about meetings like that. For me it was definately the getting drunk part LOL

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  by Deni on March 17th, 2008

• So two different perspectives, for two different reasons. From two different religious perspectives I take it. That could make for VERY different experiences.

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 17th, 2008

• No not a relgious perspective, I am not a religious person in any way. I do try to live on a spiritual basis, but follow no religion. I am sure there are a lot of other perspectives, probably as many as they are people.

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  by Deni on March 17th, 2008

• There are as many perspectives as there are butts. Everyone has one, and to other people, most of them stink.

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  by Nelson - Jetpacking from bed on March 17th, 2008

• Yep LOL

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  by Deni on March 17th, 2008

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• I run a multi million dollar company. but i'm still powerless over life. If I had the power then everything would go just perfect. Women, money, I would have it all. I could make you think like me... If I hade the POWER.

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  by Long Shot on March 15th, 2008

• You are not powerless, You live and learn every day.

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  by angel on March 16th, 2008

• Angel you are right in conventional thinking but in studying the Big Book you that you are powerless over things if life. It's not talking about driving , eating and making business decisions.

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  by Long Shot on March 16th, 2008

• I read the book. I realize

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  by angel on March 16th, 2008

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• about 2 million now :)

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  by Deni on March 15th, 2008

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• Doctor, Where is your rehab clinic located?

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  by val gal on August 14th, 2008

• I just a guy with a few 24 hours of sobriety and there are plenty of good AA groups still out there. The best way to know is when someone tells you something have them show it to you in the Big Book, if they can't it's their thoughts and their thoughts got them there in the first place. Now back off my soap box.

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  by Long Shot on September 12th, 2008

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• Link no longer works.

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  by Jodie44 on March 16th, 2008

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