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He cried... Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son? Why would anyone in the Mormon church say such a thing?

By Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete Asked Feb 9 2009 12:55PM
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Top Answer out of 6

by Glenn Blaylock on Feb 14, 2009 at 3:30 pm Permalink

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I would ask, where is the source that states that Joseph Smith said this? If you are speaking of his last words, the only record of those of which I am aware is from John Taylor's account as given in his eulogy ( http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/135 ). According to him, Joseph's last words were, "O Lord my God!". That is all. So, upon what basis do you claim that he said the above?
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Avatar Glenn Blaylock Feb, 15 2009 at 02:29 PM
No, I am not arguing that Joseph Smith was not a mason. What I am saying is that the assertion that he said, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" is false. He did not say that. Maybe he was going to say that. Maybe he wasn't. Since he was shot right after saying, "Oh Lord, My God," no one can say with any certainty what he was going to say, if anything, after that. Have you ever tried to complete someone else's sentence, thinking that you knew what they were going to say, only to be proven wrong? How can you be certain that you are not with this instance? This is to what I am objecting. Lola, asserted, "He cried... Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" We are all assuming that she was referencing Joseph Smith at the time of his death, though she never says who "He" is nor under what circumstances "he" cried this. If, in fact, this is a reference to Joseph Smith, then it is historically inaccurate, because he did not say this.
Avatar Glenn Blaylock Feb, 15 2009 at 02:29 PM
his is how rumors get started and eventually accepted as facts. People assert something that isn't true and no one steps forward to correct the record. So, people assume that the assertion is true. In this case, the assertion upon which this question is based is not true (assuming we are all correct about the person and situation to which it refers). Any assertions that Joseph Smith did intend to give that whole phrase is pure speculation on the part of the person asserting it. As such, it should not be stated as a certainty. It should be made clear that this is the opinion of the person making the statement.
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What I am arguing against here is the intellectual laziness that leads to unsubstantiated speculation being accepted as fact. There is too much of this in many different sectors of society. It is such laziness that allows people to present history however they want to rather than how it really happened.
Avatar Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT Feb, 15 2009 at 08:41 PM
All very good points Glenn. I've never felt the need until now but I will now look for a secondary, validating first hand testimony.
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One can (and should) only coast along on the expert opinion of others until you have the time and resources to pursue it on your own - or you are indeed a lazy scholar!
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SUMMARY: Good thought provoking response - you got me off my lazy keetser on this historical pont! Let me see what I can find.
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;-)

Answer 2 out of 6

by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT on Feb 14, 2009 at 11:28 am Permalink

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This answer was last edited on: May 15, 2009
SHORT ANSWER: This was a secret Masonic cry for distress which Joseph Smith, Jr. cried out when he was being assassinated and recognized several FreeMasons among his assailants.

It was an appeal to these fellow Masons to stop their attack and come to his aid.

LONG ANSWER: This is covered in detail in Mormon Historian Reed C. Durham's classic April 20, 1974 address on Mormonism's links to FreeMasonry entitled, "Is There No Help For The Widow's Son?" which was delivered when The Mormon History Association held its Convention at Nauvoo, Illinois, in the old, historic Nauvoo Hotel that year.

This cry for distress is taken from the FreeMason legend of Hiram Abbif's murder. Here's a clip from that portion of Mr. Durham's address:

13) Solomon and his builders, the Masons, while building and excavating for the temple at Mt. Moriah, discovered the cavern and the sacred treasure.

14)After three attempts to obtain the treasure, they were finally successful. Those Masons were very rejoiceful upon receiving these preserved Mysteries.

15) But. three wicked men intervened and committed a horrible crime. They attempted to force one of the Masons, one of the faithful Masons who had discovered the treasure. Hiram Abif; or Hiram, the widow's son, to reveal the hiding (place) and the contents of the hidden treasure.

16) He would not reveal his knowledge and therefore they killed him.

17) While being slain, Hiram. with uplifted hands, cried out, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" This has since become a general Masonic distress call.

18) Then three loyal Masons, seeking revenge, pursued the three evil ones.
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php

I would consider this article a "must read" for anyone interested in Mormon History or the true history of Joseph Smith's death.

This is also covered in the excellent Bill McKeever video on Joseph Smith's assassination which I have attached.

The following Audio Interview with lifetime FreeMason and Born-in-the-Covenant Mormon, and LDS Apologist Greg Kearney also covers this event in some good detail.
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php

Here are some other general resources regarding Mormonism's linkage to FreeMasonry.
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php


He cried...
Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?
Why would anyone in the Mormon church say such a thing?: by Joseph Smith was a fraud  and Eisegete : Picture 1
He cried...
Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?
Why would anyone in the Mormon church say such a thing?: by Joseph Smith was a fraud  and Eisegete : Picture 2
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Avatar Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT Feb, 14 2009 at 04:30 PM
That's an interesting "take" I've been on the board for some time and what I've observed that is that some LDS bristle against the board rules which are specifically designed to keep discussions aligned with the board mission statement which is:
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"Concerned Christians welcomes all who wish to discuss, debate and learn about the differences which separate the LDS religion from Biblical Christianity; to separate truth from falsehood, and fact from fiction."
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Specifically some of the LDS who wander onto the board aren't prepared to argue evidence, data and facts and rely on irrational feeling based "evidence" such as their Mormon Testimony.
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When their arguments are overcome by evidence, data, and fact they leave in a huff shouting that they were "persecuted for their faith" while on CC - which is simply untrue.
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Also you will note that the links are to the portal pages - with LDS scholarly content - that I created in the Documentation Section NOT the discussion board.
Avatar laie_techie Feb, 15 2009 at 10:38 PM
I treat "Concerned Christians" almost the same as "Joseph Lied". There may be individual pages which aren't specifically anti, but I don't want to wade through anti material to find it.
Avatar Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT Feb, 15 2009 at 10:48 PM
Which is why I provide direct links. I can't control the other posters - LDS or non-LDS - and I've seen rude, disrespectful behavior from BOTH sides on CC, AB, Wordpress, and just about every board I've been on that has LDS/non-LDS dialog exchanges. Ever read some of the commments on Amazon? Oy vey!
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CC is a whole HECK of a lot better than many of the boards out there. AND the CC Moderators don't mince words about their purpose and the board rules. The boundaries are clear.
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And, like most things in life you have to take the "perks with the quirks" on these boards. There are things that I love and things that I HATE about AB -- but I'm still here tossing the ball around.

Answer 3 out of 6

by thatsJustme on May 15, 2009 at 5:46 am Permalink

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Jesus said we are to help the widows, FATHERLESS, unfortunates,poor....son' s need fathers to guide and bring them up to be Godly men.....many fatherless boys today who are just males...have had no example of how important a Father is and what a Father's ROLE is to his family....it is sad and a hard responsibility for a widow...it has been done but she needs help and so does the son from "good" men.....
we need the HEavenly Father, just as we need the Earthly Fathers....they both discipline, guide and teach...:)
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Avatar Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT May, 15 2009 at 01:15 PM
Sorry JustMe but this was NOT being said by Jesus, it was being said by Joseph Smith after he had fallen through a second story window and was about to be "finished off" by the mob waiting by the Carthage Jail to murder him.
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This is NOT in the Bible at all. It is the first half of a Free Mason distress call - which implies that Joseph Smith saw fellow Masons in the crowd and was crying out to them to come to his aid.
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Please refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/.../...ay_Saint_movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch
http://www.mrm.org/death-of-joseph-smith

Answer 4 out of 6

by berline on May 15, 2009 at 5:23 am Permalink

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There was a time in the history of man that those things which the supreme being had shown them were forgotten. Many have tried to preserved these wonderful things and one of these groups are now called the MASONS. When Joseph had known about this society of men and their traditions, he saw the beauty of their works and their symbolism. He later understood that the MASONS works are indeed partly correct, most of their symbols and their traditions did came from that supreme beings teachings. Being communed with that supreme being Joseph preserved the original meaning and purpose of the symbols, and the good traditions were kept.
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Answer 5 out of 6

by the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT on Feb 15, 2009 at 2:51 pm Permalink

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In response to the actual question, the reason anyone in the Mormon Church (if such an organization exist) would say such a thing is probably the same reason that anyone else would say such a thing: I would expect the person to be a member of the United Order of Freemasons, most likely in distress and calling out for help.

In response to the initial phrase of the question, who’s “He”?
 
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Answer 6 out of 6

by Glenn Blaylock on Feb 15, 2009 at 2:29 pm Permalink

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Sorry, I meant this as a comment not another answer.
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