by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete on February 9th, 2009
Help answer this question below.
by Glenn Blaylock on February 14th, 2009
I would ask, where is the source that states that Joseph Smith said this? If you are speaking of his last words, the only record of those of which I am aware is from John Taylor's account as given in his eulogy (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/135). According to him, Joseph's last words were, "O Lord my God!". That is all. So, upon what basis do you claim that he said the above?
by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT on February 14th, 2009
SHORT ANSWER: This was a secret Masonic cry for distress which Joseph Smith, Jr. cried out when he was being assassinated and recognized several FreeMasons among his assailants.
It was an appeal to these fellow Masons to stop their attack and come to his aid.
LONG ANSWER: This is covered in detail in Mormon Historian Reed C. Durham's classic April 20, 1974 address on Mormonism's links to FreeMasonry entitled, "Is There No Help For The Widow's Son?" which was delivered when The Mormon History Association held its Convention at Nauvoo, Illinois, in the old, historic Nauvoo Hotel that year.
This cry for distress is taken from the FreeMason legend of Hiram Abbif's murder. Here's a clip from that portion of Mr. Durham's address:
13) Solomon and his builders, the Masons, while building and excavating for the temple at Mt. Moriah, discovered the cavern and the sacred treasure.
14)After three attempts to obtain the treasure, they were finally successful. Those Masons were very rejoiceful upon receiving these preserved Mysteries.
15) But. three wicked men intervened and committed a horrible crime. They attempted to force one of the Masons, one of the faithful Masons who had discovered the treasure. Hiram Abif; or Hiram, the widow's son, to reveal the hiding (place) and the contents of the hidden treasure.
16) He would not reveal his knowledge and therefore they killed him.
17) While being slain, Hiram. with uplifted hands, cried out, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" This has since become a general Masonic distress call.
18) Then three loyal Masons, seeking revenge, pursued the three evil ones.
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=75179&catid=530#75179
I would consider this article a "must read" for anyone interested in Mormon History or the true history of Joseph Smith's death.
This is also covered in the excellent Bill McKeever video on Joseph Smith's assassination which I have attached.
The following Audio Interview with lifetime FreeMason and Born-in-the-Covenant Mormon, and LDS Apologist Greg Kearney also covers this event in some good detail.
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=69507&catid=522#69507
Here are some other general resources regarding Mormonism's linkage to FreeMasonry.
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=75077&catid=522
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=74871&catid=10#74871
by thatsJustme on May 15th, 2009
Jesus said we are to help the widows, FATHERLESS, unfortunates,poor....son's need fathers to guide and bring them up to be Godly men.....many fatherless boys today who are just males...have had no example of how important a Father is and what a Father's ROLE is to his family....it is sad and a hard responsibility for a widow...it has been done but she needs help and so does the son from "good" men.....
we need the HEavenly Father, just as we need the Earthly Fathers....they both discipline, guide and teach...:)
by berline on May 15th, 2009
There was a time in the history of man that those things which the supreme being had shown them were forgotten. Many have tried to preserved these wonderful things and one of these groups are now called the MASONS. When Joseph had known about this society of men and their traditions, he saw the beauty of their works and their symbolism. He later understood that the MASONS works are indeed partly correct, most of their symbols and their traditions did came from that supreme beings teachings. Being communed with that supreme being Joseph preserved the original meaning and purpose of the symbols, and the good traditions were kept.
by the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT on February 15th, 2009
In response to the actual question, the reason anyone in the Mormon Church (if such an organization exist) would say such a thing is probably the same reason that anyone else would say such a thing: I would expect the person to be a member of the United Order of Freemasons, most likely in distress and calling out for help.
In response to the initial phrase of the question, who’s “He”?
Thanks!
by Glenn Blaylock on February 15th, 2009
Sorry, I meant this as a comment not another answer.
EXMORMONS True or False: You left the LdS Church either because of hidden sin in your life or because of a secret desire to start sinning.
by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT 2 days ago
| 1 person likes this
True or False: Most critics and "anti-Mormons" are motivated by close family members who are in fact mormon.
by the mormon mystic 2 days ago
| 1 person likes this
MORMONS: "If someone (such as a Church) claims to have the truth you should probably first find out if they're lying to you." R. Packham
by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT on January 27th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
You're an Anti-Mormon if you discus
by Joseph Smith was a fraud and Eisegete One day ago
| 1 person likes this
TRUE or FALSE 'If Joseph Smith's claim of restored priesthood authority is false then Mormonism is no different than any other Church.'
by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT on February 4th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
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Comments
Please use the links that I've provided. Reed C. Durham addressed this in his speech for example. In addition, this point has been acknowledged by Mormon Historians of every ilk and is no longer considered an issue.
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This has been the case for year.
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"The truth is out there" Just use the links.
by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT on February 14th, 2009
Ok, I have read the relevant portion of the Durham speech. It is really nothing more than speculation. It acknowledges that Joseph Smith did not, in fact, yell out, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" Rather, it states that all he said was, "Oh Lord, My God." He then speculates that Joseph intended to continue with the Masonic distress call. This is just speculation on his part and on the part of anyone else who asserts that this was Joseph's intention as Joseph was shot dead prior to completing whatever it was that he was saying if indeed he did have more to say at that point. In any event, there is no assertion that Joseph actually called out the entire phrase indicated in the question. So, once again, I ask. where is the record of Joseph Smith actually saying that at the time of his death?
by Glenn Blaylock on February 15th, 2009
Part, whole what difference doe it make? Are you going to deny that Joseph Smith was a Master Mason (as was his Father, and Hyrum his brother)? Are you going to try to deny the strong linkage between Mormonism and Masonry? Are you going to try to deny that there were Masons in the mob that assassinated Smith?
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If so, I don't understand WHY you would since Mormon and non-Mormon Historians don't dispute this - there is consensus on this.
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So I'm genuinely puzzled by your assertion.
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However, if you want to deny it for your own reasons - that's your choice. However the consensus of Mormon History Scholars isn't with you on this one.
by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT on February 15th, 2009
No, I am not arguing that Joseph Smith was not a mason. What I am saying is that the assertion that he said, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" is false. He did not say that. Maybe he was going to say that. Maybe he wasn't. Since he was shot right after saying, "Oh Lord, My God," no one can say with any certainty what he was going to say, if anything, after that. Have you ever tried to complete someone else's sentence, thinking that you knew what they were going to say, only to be proven wrong? How can you be certain that you are not with this instance? This is to what I am objecting. Lola, asserted, "He cried... Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" We are all assuming that she was referencing Joseph Smith at the time of his death, though she never says who "He" is nor under what circumstances "he" cried this. If, in fact, this is a reference to Joseph Smith, then it is historically inaccurate, because he did not say this.
by Glenn Blaylock on February 15th, 2009
his is how rumors get started and eventually accepted as facts. People assert something that isn't true and no one steps forward to correct the record. So, people assume that the assertion is true. In this case, the assertion upon which this question is based is not true (assuming we are all correct about the person and situation to which it refers). Any assertions that Joseph Smith did intend to give that whole phrase is pure speculation on the part of the person asserting it. As such, it should not be stated as a certainty. It should be made clear that this is the opinion of the person making the statement.
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What I am arguing against here is the intellectual laziness that leads to unsubstantiated speculation being accepted as fact. There is too much of this in many different sectors of society. It is such laziness that allows people to present history however they want to rather than how it really happened.
by Glenn Blaylock on February 15th, 2009
All very good points Glenn. I've never felt the need until now but I will now look for a secondary, validating first hand testimony.
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One can (and should) only coast along on the expert opinion of others until you have the time and resources to pursue it on your own - or you are indeed a lazy scholar!
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SUMMARY: Good thought provoking response - you got me off my lazy keetser on this historical pont! Let me see what I can find.
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;-)
by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT on February 15th, 2009