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Top Answer out of 6 by Glenn Blaylock on Feb 14, 2009 at 3:30 pm Permalink
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No, I am not arguing that Joseph Smith was not a mason. What I am saying is that the assertion that he said, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" is false. He did not say that. Maybe he was going to say that. Maybe he wasn't. Since he was shot right after saying, "Oh Lord, My God," no one can say with any certainty what he was going to say, if anything, after that. Have you ever tried to complete someone else's sentence, thinking that you knew what they were going to say, only to be proven wrong? How can you be certain that you are not with this instance? This is to what I am objecting. Lola, asserted, "He cried... Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" We are all assuming that she was referencing Joseph Smith at the time of his death, though she never says who "He" is nor under what circumstances "he" cried this. If, in fact, this is a reference to Joseph Smith, then it is historically inaccurate, because he did not say this.
his is how rumors get started and eventually accepted as facts. People assert something that isn't true and no one steps forward to correct the record. So, people assume that the assertion is true. In this case, the assertion upon which this question is based is not true (assuming we are all correct about the person and situation to which it refers). Any assertions that Joseph Smith did intend to give that whole phrase is pure speculation on the part of the person asserting it. As such, it should not be stated as a certainty. It should be made clear that this is the opinion of the person making the statement.
- What I am arguing against here is the intellectual laziness that leads to unsubstantiated speculation being accepted as fact. There is too much of this in many different sectors of society. It is such laziness that allows people to present history however they want to rather than how it really happened.
All very good points Glenn. I've never felt the need until now but I will now look for a secondary, validating first hand testimony.
. One can (and should) only coast along on the expert opinion of others until you have the time and resources to pursue it on your own - or you are indeed a lazy scholar! . SUMMARY: Good thought provoking response - you got me off my lazy keetser on this historical pont! Let me see what I can find. . ;-) Answer 2 out of 6 by Mister IT has a Liahona equipped COAT on Feb 14, 2009 at 11:28 am Permalink
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That's an interesting "take" I've been on the board for some time and what I've observed that is that some LDS bristle against the board rules which are specifically designed to keep discussions aligned with the board mission statement which is:
. "Concerned Christians welcomes all who wish to discuss, debate and learn about the differences which separate the LDS religion from Biblical Christianity; to separate truth from falsehood, and fact from fiction." . Specifically some of the LDS who wander onto the board aren't prepared to argue evidence, data and facts and rely on irrational feeling based "evidence" such as their Mormon Testimony. . When their arguments are overcome by evidence, data, and fact they leave in a huff shouting that they were "persecuted for their faith" while on CC - which is simply untrue. . Also you will note that the links are to the portal pages - with LDS scholarly content - that I created in the Documentation Section NOT the discussion board.
I treat "Concerned Christians" almost the same as "Joseph Lied". There may be individual pages which aren't specifically anti, but I don't want to wade through anti material to find it.
Which is why I provide direct links. I can't control the other posters - LDS or non-LDS - and I've seen rude, disrespectful behavior from BOTH sides on CC, AB, Wordpress, and just about every board I've been on that has LDS/non-LDS dialog exchanges. Ever read some of the commments on Amazon? Oy vey!
. CC is a whole HECK of a lot better than many of the boards out there. AND the CC Moderators don't mince words about their purpose and the board rules. The boundaries are clear. . And, like most things in life you have to take the "perks with the quirks" on these boards. There are things that I love and things that I HATE about AB -- but I'm still here tossing the ball around. Answer 3 out of 6 by thatsJustme on May 15, 2009 at 5:46 am Permalink
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Sorry JustMe but this was NOT being said by Jesus, it was being said by Joseph Smith after he had fallen through a second story window and was about to be "finished off" by the mob waiting by the Carthage Jail to murder him.
. This is NOT in the Bible at all. It is the first half of a Free Mason distress call - which implies that Joseph Smith saw fellow Masons in the crowd and was crying out to them to come to his aid. . Please refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/.../...ay_Saint_movement http://www.youtube.com/watch http://www.mrm.org/death-of-joseph-smith Answer 4 out of 6 by berline on May 15, 2009 at 5:23 am Permalink
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Answer 5 out of 6 by the Otter has a technicolor dream COAT on Feb 15, 2009 at 2:51 pm Permalink
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Answer 6 out of 6 by Glenn Blaylock on Feb 15, 2009 at 2:29 pm Permalink
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