• I'm an agnostic, so I am definitely willing to acknowledge that there could be a creator/supreme being. I chose to answer here rather under the Christians version because I certainly don't go so far as to claim I know what name such a being migh prefer if he or she exists.
  • Yeah, in fact, I never would have become an atheist if I didn't. Here's an example, I met this guy who was an uber Christian, but he was also this urban artist guy, and like, did everything Christians aren't supposed to do. One of his things was he was a huge pothead. While I have no idea what God says about weed, I've heard more than enough about what a lot of Christians think of I ask him, what if all your fellow Christians knew you had this habit? Wouldn't they like, judge you and shit? And he's all like, well, God created weed, so he probably gave it as a gift to us. You gotta live and use what God gave to you as a gift, this includes beer, and your snatch. XD Then he explains to me that I shouldn't judge Christianity on its general image, and starts going off on being responsible and knowing your priorities and all. So then I go, well what about cigarettes and heroin and all that? Does God want us to do all this to? "The Lord tends to His garden by pulling out the weeds." lulz. But yeah, that was one thing, basically the whole jist of this was that maybe God isn't exactly like how must people believe Him to be...there's lots to consider, and to this day, I still do, even though that guy was probably just making up this shit to feel better about not being a true Christian. Most of my vehemence and dismissal of "God" is aimed towards people, actually, not God Himself. Also the closest thing I would believe about "God" is that He created evolution, so Darwin's right, but like, he's also wrong.
  • Sure, if the 'believers' could ever come up with a valid point/possibility concerning their faith
  • There are no valid points when dealing with religion. There is no possibility of there being a god or gods. The human will eventually understand this. Give me one, I challenge you.
  • Of course. The whole question of how we got here is all I can think of, the sheer complexity of the universe and everything in it is perplexing, but I just don't think it should stamped with the god sticker because theres no answer for it. Other than that....all the others seem ridiculous to me, but I can 'understand' them. An example is people who lead a bad life and "should have been dead long ago", but the fact that they recovered from their horrible life must mean there is a god to them.
  • Absolutely. It's the interpretation of same that allows me to use their "logic" against them. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden, wherein all of the animals were supposedly vegetarians. So why did the animals get expelled too?
  • If we bring good old William James into the argument, he'd say that you are completely justified in your Christian beliefs if they make you happier. James' viewpoint was that if a belief works for you, then you should accept it, and if it doesn't, then stop believing it and believe in something else. I don't see anything irrational about that viewpoint. I just don't think the idea of "God" works for me.
  • I do not know, I have never encountered one.
  • The only thing different from me and a Christian next door is that s/he does good deeds and sees good works and attributes them to god, and I attribute it to the goodness of people. So no, there isn't anything particularly anything else I'd acknowledge about religion.
  • Yes, they have something called "faith", which I don't have.
  • I'm neither an atheist or a theist, so what... I don't get to play?? ;) There's a phrase I like that says "everybody is partly right". Sometimes it's useful and sometimes it's not, but I like to lay it over difficult questions like a magnifying glass, to see what shows up. The idea is that we tend to mix truth, distortions, and falsehoods together into complex weaves, and tend to lose the ability to distinguish between these because we become attached to our viewpoints -- specifically, because we define our identity in terms of our views, and once that is done certain automatic psychological mechanisms kick into gear which erode objectivity. The particular nail that I hit most often with this tool is "you cannot say 'I am X' and still retain objectivity". It's like... a contradiction in terms. So this applies both to theists and atheists, as well as agnostics and pantheists and polytheists and even the guy who says "I'm Mr. Apathy, you guys figure it out". Why is it a contradiction in terms? Because to define your identity on the basis of a belief or viewpoint is to lose track of true being... to lose true self. And only true being has the capacity to integrate competing and/or dualistic views into a coherent whole. In order to recover the "fresh perspective" of the mind, in order to recover true being, one must give up all forms of self-definition, including these. That is the only state of mind which is truly objective, because it has no personal stake in the preservation of any particular form of "myself"... it is free to weigh all evidence on a virgin scale, so to speak. That's why I don't say "I'm a theist", or "I'm an atheist", or really any other form of "I am X" on issues of significance. It might seem like semantic gamesmanship, but it's the difference between being awake and going to sleep.
  • "Whatever floats yer boat", eh? ;-)
  • If they had and could articulate one, I'd be willing to listen. However I have yet to hear one.
  • It's possible that they are right. Jesus could be God as could Allah, Ahura Mazda, or even Dyeus. For all we know there is a God who has revealed himself to some select group of people on earth and he protects them against all others--most people believe this of their God so maybe one group or one denomination has it right. Of course, people who believe today have to take their belief on faith, because no god has shown itself to the population in modern history. I acknowledge that if faith is all you need to believe in the supernatural, then you may be lucky to have been born into the chosen group that you believe in. I don't believe, because there is no good evidence for anything supernatural let alone some type of creator god. +3
  • I'd be happy to consider any point, I actively look for and ask for them all the time. Unfortunately, the only points I hear are misinterpretations of science or ones that require faith to begin with. I have yet to come across a single rational argument. As far as valid, that's tougher. For me, no. But for for others blind faith in the word is enough and completely valid. Of course that validity is purely subjective but to them real and convincing none the less. +5
  • Like Blackberry, I often wonder about "where did all of this 'stuff' come from?" But I don't lose much sleep over it. After all, the 'stuff' is here -- and "out there", where there's a lot more 'stuff' in the stars -- and that's something that we can deal with. But I don't understand why you phrased the Q "are you rational enough ...". Since for the most part we're not faith-based, we generally tend to think along rational lines, rather than mystical belief and the occult. Which is why I'm curious how you would ask or expect us to be "rational about mystical beliefs". It seems to me that the only rational way to be about those is to demand evidence of the belief that can be proven (or at least theories that can be falsified in logical debate).
  • I cannot beleive I am reading all this's an intresting topic..but I am reaceiving about 25 comments just from this question page haha xD

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