Does the Mormon church count as members “those members who have long exited LDS?"

  This is a rather curious claim that was made in the answer at http://www.answerbag.com/a_view.php/37053

  The complete quote to which I refer is:

    »     This is a church that even counts in their final numbers
    »     those members who have long EXITED LDS or those who
    »     have asked to be removed from membership records. The
    »     higher number is more impressive than the true but lower
    »     number.

  The implication seems to be that the church counts, as members, those who have left the church, in order to deceptively inflate their membership numbers.

  There is a formal procedure for becoming a member of the church.  There are formal procedures for terminating one's membership in the church.  Anyone who has been subject to the former procedures, and not to the latter procedures, is a member, and is counted as such.  There is nothing at all improper, deceptive, or dishonest about this.

  Now it is true that there are a significant number of people who have joined the church, and who subsequently have failed to remain active participants therein.  These people are still members, and are still counted as such; so long as they neither commit any sin so great as to warrant excommunication nor initiate the formal procedure for voluntarily terminating their membership.

  I suppose it could be argued that it is deceptive to count inactive members in our membership numbers, but to do otherwise would force the use of a vague and subjective standard for determining who is active enough to count, and who is not; in place of the clear and objective standard that is now applied.

  The claim is further made that we count as members those who have asked to be removed from membership records.  This claim itself is intentionally deceptive.  As stated, there is a formal procedure for voluntarily having one's membership terminated.  Those who follow this procedure are indeed no longer counted among our members.

There are many inactive members of many churches. If all who have a church membership in any church attended there church there would not be room in all the churches to hold them all. Church attendance in my own ward is about 70%. We have a very active large ward. If you went to the 30% inactive and asked if they wanted there name removed, maybe one or two would but the vast majority would not.

I would venture to say that the same could be said for most churches. People, even if they are not active do want to be associated with a church. Even if they only go on Easter and Christmas or to funerals and weddings.

As far a membership goes, there are many denominations that may have people on the roster that are not necessarly still members of that particular denomination. For example, My wife was baptized Catholic at birth. Later her family attended a Luthern Church. Then were taught the Gospel and joined the LDS Church. They have never asked to have their name removed from the membership records of any of those churches. I have many friends who are converts and have never requested to have their membership removed from there old church. I have friends who are not active in any church but still consider themselves Baptist or Catholic or whatever. And I guess are still counted among the membership of those religions.

It's a silly question but all they need to do is ask to have their name removed. Even still the Churches growth far outpaces those who reject the gospel and ask to have there names removed. Regardless of what outlandish claims are made by some.

There are three ways to exit the LdS Church:
1. Ask your name to be removed
2. Be excommunicated
3. Die (a "lost" member is considered dead after their 120th birthday)

If none of the above pertain to you, you are still counted as a member.

There is no easy way to take attendance during Sacrament Meeting; our clerks just count how many people are present. Not everyone stays for Sunday School or the Priesthood Quorum / Relief Society lessons, so those attendance rolls can't be used; besides if a member is visiting, how will his or her home ward be notified?

The LDS Church only counts those who are members. Those who leave the church can have their name removed.

The LDS Church only keeps track of those members are currently members. If someone wants to leave the Church, then that member is no longer counted as part of the membership.

My wife and I have asked to be removed from the church records, by a letter, hand delivered, by phone twice...still nothing.....now we are going to get a lawyer involved. I don't know what the big deal is about keeping us on the record....the only thing I can think is that they want to count us as being a member.

Here you go: http://packham.n4m.org/morexmos.htm

HOW MANY EXMORMONS ARE THERE?
OR, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE LEFT THE MORMON CHURCH?

By Richard Packham

Of course there is no precise way of knowing how many ex-Mormons there are in the world, or in the US. But I have been playing around with the numbers published here by the US government related to the census, especially Tables 79 and 81 on religions in the US.

Table 79 lists all the religions in the US and shows how many Americans consider themselves to be adherents, giving the figures for 1990 and 2001. The number of Americans who claimed to be Mormon in 1990 was 2,487,000, increasing in 2001 to 2,787,000, an increase of 300,000, amounting to 12% over the eleven years. (The table lists 24 religions who had greater increases - often much greater - than 12%).

Table 81 lists the number of members claimed by various religious organizations in 2001, with the term "member" being defined by each organization. The Mormon church reported that it had 5,311,000 members in the US. (The church considers anyone a member whose name is on their membership records as having been baptized who has not officially resigned or been ex-communicated.)

Notice the difference: of the 5 million members claimed by the church (and apparently listed on their membership records), only a scant half actually consider themselves Mormons. The other 2,524,000 people apparently do NOT consider themselves Mormons, even though the church claims them as members. Who are they? Obviously, they are ex-Mormons! They were once Mormons, but no longer consider themselves Mormons, even though their names are still on the records.

But there are more ex-Mormons than that, because many people resign their membership and get their names removed from the church records when they stop believing, and in recent years that number has been estimated to be presently at 100,000 per year. Between 1995 and 2002 approximately 595,000 names were removed by the church, according to an anonymous inside source (until the mid-90s it was about 30,000 per year). A fair estimate of how many people requested name removal (or were excommunicated) between 1990 and 2001 would be 640,000.

Adding these two figures (640,000 who officially left, and 2,524,000 who don't call themselves Mormons but are still on the records), gives us an estimate of about 3,164,000 ex-Mormons in the US in 2001, compared to the 2,787,000 who consider themselves Mormon. And notice that this estimate disregards those who may have had their names removed before 1990, but who are still alive, which would make the number of ex-Mormons even higher.

The figures for some other countries show an even greater ratio of ex-Mormons to Mormons. Some countries, as part of their official census, ask citizens to specify their religion. Here, too, the Mormon church has on its records large numbers of people who apparently at one time were members, but no longer consider themselves Mormon. They are, then, ex-Mormons.

Here are the numbers:
Mexico
Members claimed by church (1999): 846,931
Mormons in census (2000): 205,229
Difference (ex-Mormons): 641,702
This shows that in Mexico there are over three times as many ex-Mormons as Mormons
Chile
Members claimed by church (2001): 520,202
Mormons in census (2002): 103,735
Difference (ex-Mormons): 416,467
This shows that in Chile there are four times as many ex-Mormons as Mormons

These numbers are probably typical for many other third-world countries. Armand Mauss (Mormon sociologist) has estimated that in third-world countries only 25% of Mormon converts are still active one year after baptism. That is, 75% have become exmormon within a year.

Thus it appears that there are more ex-Mormons than there are Mormons! (Not that this proves anything, but I find it interesting.)

July 2007

© 2007 Richard Packham Permission granted to reproduce for non-commercial purposes, provided text is not changed and this copyright notice is included.