In my Church History class at BYU I was told about two of Joseph Smith's sons who went to Utah to try and convince the Brighamites of their error and bring them back into the true Church. They didn't have much success. Instead, one of the sons became convince that Brigham Young was his father's true successor and was baptized. After this he was warned by the Church leaders not to return east, but he did anyway to try and convince his family to return to Utah with him. Instead his family had him locked up in an insane asylum for the rest of his life. ***************** "Alatea: The question is- Are the descendents of Joseph Smith RLDS? Please answer." I gave you one example of a descendant of Joseph Smith who left that church.. At the commemoration of Joseph Smith's 200th birthday last month in Salt Lake City one of his descendants gave one of the prayers. So, obviously not all of Joseph Smith's descendants are members of the Community of Christ. (They are not the RLDS church anymore.) How many are and how many are not I don't know. However, from the standpoint of who I follow as God's chosen successor to Joseph Smith, it doesn't matter. When Joseph was assassinated, his children were children. It was not their decision to not follow Brigham Young. It was their mother's decision. Therefore, they were raised with a jaundiced view of Brigham Young and an incomplete understanding of what their father taught. One of Joseph's sons ultimately over came this and so have some of his other descendants.

According to my research, when Joseph Smith died, the church was very confused on who should lead the church and replace him. After a conference and Brigham Young was chosen, many disagreed with the decision and argued that it should be a decedent of Joseph. So they went on to organize their own church, the RLDS. Last I heard, the church is lead by a women, which is beyond me, as in the regular church, Women can not yet hold the priesthood.

According to the website: http://www.cofchrist.org/ These are the former & current Presidents of the RLDS Faith... Joseph Smith III Frederick M. Smith Israel A. Smith W. Wallace Smith Wallace B. Smith W. Grant McMurray Stephen M. Veazey

IN the Community of Christ, who are not Mormon, they believed that Joseph Smith's Oldest son should be the Prophet(even though that calling is through Divine inspiration to those in authority) which in this time period were the 12 apostles. Joseph Smith III was to young at the time, but he became so when older. ever since they usually had the eldest son of in direct decent of Joseph smith until two presidents ago.

Most of JS jr.'s descendent's if affiliated with one of the Latter Day Saint traditions will be Community of Christ or one of the groups that have broken away from Community of Christ, such as the president of the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Others are part of no LDS tradition, and it is possible some have joined other LDS traditions. As for the person who talked about the son's of JS had a very bad history professor. Alexander Hale, David Hiram, and Joseph III all would serve in leadership roles in Community of Christ. Fredric dies in his young adult years, not sure when so it may have been befor the First presidency was re-organized in 1860. JS III served as Prophet-President til his death, David would eventually serve in the First presidency as a counselor to Joeseph, though in the latetr years of his life suffering from illness was institutionalized. Historians and medical professionals looking back at his behavior say it was something along the lines of manic depressive, or perhaps now starting to think hypo glycimic. a wonderful biography written by a historian that is LDS, called Mission to Madness talks explores how wonderful an artist he was and how ill he became. Alexander served as a counselor for a while then would become the Presiding Evangelist Patriarch of the church, where he would serve in till his death.

Just to clarify the reasonings as to Joseph III becoming the next prophet. Joseph II told the people that his son (Joseph) would be the next prophet of the Church. The people that followed Brigham to Utah knew this, as evidenced in the Temple Lot Case where it was testified. Joseph II even blessed Joseph III in front of the congregation. I think even Brigham Young knew he wasn't to be the next prophet as I don't remember even reading anywhere that he was ordained into the possition of prophet, someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Most of Joseph's descendants ultimately joined what became the Community of Christ (the modern day descendant of the RLDS). Some have recently come back over to the LDS Church, and I'm sure there are many who are in non restoration churches altogether.

Real Living Doormats of Satan

Re: In my Church History class at BYU I was told about two of Joseph Smith's sons who went to Utah to try and convince the Brighamites of their error and bring them back into the true Church. They didn't have much success. This part of the story is only partly true. David and Alexander Smith, brothers of Joseph Smith III traveled through Utah on a missionary trip. They went to the office of Brigham Young to ask permission to preach in the Tabernacle. Their meeting was delayed until Brigham could gather together many of the church leaders in Salt Lake City. The brothers were told no by a room full of men who were full of wrath against them. After a brief sojourn in Utah, the two brothers continued on to California to help establish and build RLDS congregations in that area. Re: Instead, one of the sons became convince that Brigham Young was his father's true successor and was baptized. After this he was warned by the Church leaders not to return east, but he did anyway to try and convince his family to return to Utah with him. This part of the story is urban myth and blatantly not true. Re: Instead his family had him locked up in an insane asylum for the rest of his life. The real story: David Smith was the last child of Joseph Smith, Jr. — born after his father was martyred. He had problems for much of his life with what would be described today as depression. He was well known for his poetry and paintings of Nauvoo. For a time, he was a member of the First Presidency of the RLDS Church. Later in life, his depression worsened. Treatment for such in the latter part of the 19th century was to be placed in an asylum — much like a hospital care facility today.

Many of the early descendants of Joseph Smith were RLDS. Frederick Granger Williams Smith was a son that died in Nauvoo in April 1862. He hadn't yet united with the RLDS prior to that time. His daughter grew never married and never had children, however she did move to Indepedence, Missouri later in life. http://www.josephsmithjr.com/fredrick.htm http://www.josephsmithjr.com/children.htm It's my understanding that those descendants who have in the last few decades joined the LDS/Mormon church have mostly come through Alexander Hale Smith's family line and the Hedrickite Church (Church of Christ, Temple Lot). I'm not aware of any direct male descendants that have joined the LDS/Mormon church that retain the 'Smith' last name. I have met and known some Smith descendants over the years as I was co-owner of a bookstore in Nauvoo, IL for a few years.

Aren't those the markings on an automotive automatic gearshift selector?! ;-)

A few years ago, my wife and I went on a self driven road trip by car and went to several places in church history. The two most fascinating were Kirtland, OH and Nauvoo, IL. Until that point, I felt as if the LDS Church in Utah was the valid organization, but I have to admit that visiting these two places raised quite a few questions. First off, the Temple in Kirtland is open to the public, and is not the type of temple the LDS of Utah use. As a matter of fact, the history behind it is quite different from what temples are used for today. 2) There is significant historical evidence that Brigham Young was actually the originator of polygamy in the Mormon Church (which he stole from another group, the Cochranites), no matter what you read elsewhere. Sec. 132 was not produced in written form until after JS's death, and JS adamantly spoke out against polygamy his whole life, and right up until his matyrdom. In fact, the BOM points out that polygamy is an abomination, no matter how much the polygamists try to make it into a pro-poly scripture, or the LDS attribute it to JS. A fully researched book on this topic alone is available at Nauvoo bookstores, and can actually be read online at http://tinyurl.com/ca4o37 It is well worth the read. 3) Emma was very close to Joseph. She was there from just about the very beginning of everything. She stuck by Joseph through thick and thin, and if you visit Nauvoo, you will find them buried side by side in the family burial plot owned by the RLDS. It is very clear to anyone who has studied their history together that this couple was extremely close, so close that you could call it the most famous love story of all time. And coming from personal experience, my marriage to my wife is the most wonderful thing that has ever happened to me. She is my wife, my lover, and my best friend. We share everything together, and not one thing is hidden from each other (as it should be.) We discuss everything (just as Joseph and Emma must have done if their marriage was pure in God's eyes.) Now think about this carefully. Considering the relationship that Joseph had with Emma, don't you think he would have confided in her even more intimate details about the Gospel than to his collegues? If you know anything about the intimacy of marriage, you would understand this. He did in fact say that his son was to carry his mantle. This is in a hand written letter to Lyman Wight, which the RLDS have. In fact, history shows that Brigham Young, if anything, stated he would hold the office of President of the Church until JS's son was of age. This did not happen however due to a major power play, which brings me to the next point.... 3) Emma did not follow Brigham. As a matter of fact, a lot of people didn't follow him. They stayed in Nauvoo, and the surrounding areas and lived there for the rest of their lives. The LDS Church likes to say that the majority of the people followed Brigham (almost making it sound as if Nauvoo was totally abandoned,) but there is now evidence that they stayed with Emma instead because she was the closest to Joseph. It is true that Emma joined with the Strangites for a while, as did just about every other person who was involved with Joseph in the beginning of the Church. Which brings to question, why didn't the original followers and leaders who associated with Joseph NOT go with Brigham? Why didn't Emma, and the rest of the Smith family...those that were closest to Joseph Smith? All of these things are very important questions (and there are others.) We must remember that the Mormon Church of Utah may be the largest restoration church to come out of the time of JS, but where in any of the scriptures does it say that God ever used a majority to do His work. If anything, God uses just a few good people, or a remnant. If you study the RLDS, you will find that even they have changed (and the LDS in Utah have as well) but you will also find that there are a remnant, or group of people independent, who have studied what Joseph taught, looked at the history, and still believe that Joseph was a Prophet and follow his exact teachings as laid out in the BOM, and RLDS scriptures. They hold that contradiction is not of God (LDS and RDLS today contradict themselves). They recognize that the House of God is out of Order (which is prophecy in the D&C) and that one day "One Mighty And Strong" will put the house back together. They hold a line of Priesthood that is unbroken from Joseph Smith on down. You have to be willing to be objective to understand, and truly study. I think being a member of anything hook, line and sinker clouds reason and logical sense. We fight amongst ourselves as to who is right and who is wrong, but the Gospel, if studied and understood is not about division. It's about love and is inclusive not exclusive. Love is the main fruit. You shall know them by their fruits, and if there is any prejudice, hatred of other races, a looking down on sinners because they don't quite match up to your expectations, then you've got the wrong Gospel. That's what it was like in the beginning of the Restoration....love and then when you thought you couldn't love any more, you turned it on even more and got out of your comfort zone and and tripled it and gave your all until you couldn't give anymore. That is the real Gospel. And I think if you really study Brigham and really study Joseph and Emma, you might just be surprised what you actually find. God Bless Us All. We sure do need it now! EDIT: I wanted to add Links to the pictures of our Mormon Road Trip. Enjoy! Palmyra 105 Pics: http://tinyurl.com/ada2qv Kirtland 32 Pics: http://tinyurl.com/deasj8 Nauvoo 128 Pics: http://tinyurl.com/dh4sp5 Carthage Jail 78 Pics: http://tinyurl.com/amhksr Independence Missouri 59 Pics: http://tinyurl.com/csf33v