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by nightcrawler0_2 on May 14th, 2011
by sociman on May 17th, 2011
by baysider99 on May 14th, 2011
by triddler on May 14th, 2011
by Account Closed on May 14th, 2011
Where in the Bible does it say homosexuality is wrong?
by Avenmar on July 8th, 2010
| 2 people like this
"sexual excitement is shameful [...] venereal stimuli have their origin not in nature, but in sin" Erasmus
Thoughts?
by iwnit on June 17th, 2010
| 3 people like this
Christians: does the Bible condemn pedophilia?
by Steel on Water on August 21st, 2010
| 1 person likes this
How far back in history can we find monogamous homosexual relationships? Please share your source or specific examples, not conjectures.
by blondesaremorefun88 on October 6th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
If your son or daughter were to become Gay, would you be against it or for it?
by applefritter on September 10th, 2010
| 2 people like this
You're reading Where in the bible is homosexuality condemned? (Not rhetorical, please give and name the verses. Also, same question for pre-marital sex?)
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Comments
Interestingly, "fornication" was a slight mistranslation. I can't remember exactely what it meant, but it ws MUCH more... evil. As was the term erotica.
I think the both were dealing with something to do with temple prostitutes, and actually condemned paegenism wherein temple prostitution was the norm.
by bannanaphoneist on May 14th, 2011
Found it. Not entirely un-biased (a little liberally slanted), but highly informative. Doesn't discuss the gay thing much though.
by bannanaphoneist on May 14th, 2011
http://www.libchrist.com/bible/fornication.html
by bannanaphoneist on May 14th, 2011
You forgot one: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
My personal fave, as it captures the true spirit of God's love for his creations.
by HasntBeen on May 14th, 2011
Bannanaphoneist, Thank for the link, and although it makes a very good point to start with regarding making sure the information comes from scripture rather then the church or personal opinion which many fail in doing, unfortunately it goes on to then not follow this good advise, by hardly using any scripture to support what turns out to be nothing more then opinion and speculation.
Be very weary of anyone that cannot support what they say with scripture whether it be in church, on the internet, or face to face ;)
(2 Timothy 3:16) “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness”
(1 Corinthians 3:19) “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.”
(1 Corinthians 2:14) “But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually.”
(2 Peter 3:16) “speaking about these things as he does also in all [his] letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
(2 Timothy 4:3-4) “For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.”
(Colossians 2:8) “Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ”
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 14th, 2011
Thank you Hasntbeen, you are quite right, and yes it does capture God's true feelings for anyone that deliberately goes against what is natural and what they were originally designed for, and as their creator and the one who knows what is best, rightly so.
We are all in the same boat, and all have choices to make for what is right or wrong, there is nothing hidden here, those that choose the selfish me first options will not gain the reward, those that do not will, and although God takes no delight in doing what has to be done, their really is no choice on the matter, for it is the most loving and just thing to do as regards his righteous standards.
(Isaiah 65:1-2) “I have let myself be searched for by those who had not asked [for me]. I have let myself be found by those who had not looked for me. I have said, ‘Here I am, here I am!’ to a nation that was not calling upon my name. “I have spread out my hands all day long to a stubborn people, those who are walking in the way that is not good, after their thoughts”
(2 Peter 3:9) “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”
(Matthew 23:37) “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But you people did not want it.”
(Isaiah 9:17) “That is why Jehovah will not rejoice even over their young men, and upon their fatherless boys and upon their widows he will have no mercy; because all of them are apostates and evildoers and every mouth is speaking senselessness. In view of all this his anger has not turned back, but his hand is stretched out still.”
(2 Chronicles 16:9) For, as regards Jehovah, his eyes are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him. You have acted foolishly respecting this, for from now on there will exist wars against you.”
(Matthew 10:29) “Do not two sparrows sell for a coin of small value? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s [knowledge].”
(Ezekiel 18:23) “‘Do I take any delight at all in the death of someone wicked,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘[and] not in that he should turn back from his ways and actually keep living?’”
(1 Timothy 2:3-4) “This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.”
There are a lot more scriptures other then these that clearly show just how much God desires to save everyone, but the fact is many people will, and continue to insist upon leading an unnatural life.
Also worth remembering, is that no one at this time is alive in the true sense of the word, we all face death regardless.
(1 Timothy 6:17-19) “Give orders to those who are rich in the present system of things not to be high-minded, and to rest their hope, not on uncertain riches, but on God, who furnishes us all things richly for our enjoyment; to work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be liberal, ready to share, safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, in order that they may get a firm hold on the REAL life.”
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 14th, 2011
Now if only this stuff were true.
by HasntBeen on May 14th, 2011
nc, excellent and very thorough answer!
by autumn leaves on May 14th, 2011
@nightcrawler0_2 Thank you for your thorough response. I DID take the article with more than a grain of salt, and try to look at things objectivly, only looking at the facts. I myself am very liberal and an athiest with self-defined morals, so this means using a lot of self restraint to not just agree with it for agreeing with me.
by bannanaphoneist on May 14th, 2011
HasntBeen do you believe Leviticus 20:13 NAB to be true, or is it your “personal fave” purely as it suits your particular way of thinking when out of context with the rest of scripture ?
autumn leaves thank you :)
bannanaphoneist thanks for you comment, what you said you do “try to look at things objectively, only looking at the facts” is very good advise for everyone, the detail is so important and one reason so it seems why so many who claim to be Christian are sadly nothing like the example Christ set for them.
Making sure of all the “facts” and what is put forward as fact then applying what is found in our life is the key to finding truth and remaining in it :)
(1 Thessalonians 5:21) “Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.”
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 15th, 2011
No, it's definitely not true. It's ancient bigotry arising from ignorance, wrapped up in a book that is just chock full of such things. There is wisdom in the Bible, but it's so mixed up with nonsense that it might as well not be there at all -- people who have sacrificed their critical thinking ability will read it and not be able to separate the junk from the good stuff.
That's what's happening here.
by HasntBeen on May 15th, 2011
Lol, just love how you can have “personal fave” of “ancient bigotry.”
Remember the bible's been around long before you and will be here long after, so for an ancient book full of bigotry, it seems to be doing quite well for itself regardless of your opinion, maybe you just don't understand it, some books can have a habit of going over your head can't they.
It's really no surprise many will fail to understand it though.
(1 Corinthians 2:14) “But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually.”
And after all that's the whole point, it's designed to sieve those with a good heart from those with a bad one, and it does a very good job of it to.
(Hebrews 4:12-13) “For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart. And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting.”
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 15th, 2011
nc, did you take note of the scripture cited at the sunday meeting? the one saying not to trust in nobles?(psalms 146:3)and so it is with the wisdom of the world.
by autumn leaves on May 15th, 2011
Oh Yes, quite correct that is exactly the point, so many continue to put to much trust in themselves and there own faulty thinking ability, to their own detriment, even though they seem not to realise it, “men will be lovers of themselves” and "puffed up with pride", plenty of that here on AB going on all right ;)
(2 Timothy 3:1-5) “But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.”
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 15th, 2011
Your "lol" is as jaded, cynical, and hollow as your morality is confused. You are here endorsing the cold-blooded murder of gays, and claiming that's wisdom. I see no difference between that kind of extremist religious violent thinking and the kind that made Osama bin Laden famous: "our God hates you" is the essential message of religious bigotry.
You would presumably never actually kill a gay person, which means this is all pure hypocrisy anyway. Disgusting and utterly devoid of moral character. This is just puppet-think.
by HasntBeen on May 15th, 2011
Right is right, and wrong is wrong, regardless of how old your book is. It's flat out wrong, and obviously so. Nobody in your church would really publicly propose killing gays. Why not? Because they know its wrong. Their behavior belies their stated beliefs.
by HasntBeen on May 15th, 2011
What a nerve, your words are almost comical Hasntbeen, before making such serious accusations I suggest you get your facts straight, or is this just normal for you to pass judgement before doing so, although that would explain your strange view of the bible.
“You are here endorsing the cold-blooded murder of gays”
lol, Just how am I doing that ?, considering I do not agree with murder, would not go to war, and have not even ever voted for anyone that has, most likely unlike yourself and most others who have been involved or support one or another of the many wars that have in fact directly killed homosexuals and every other kind of orientation.
If you do support any kind of war effort even by voting to put those that start them in office, your high and mighty hypocritical views have not gone unnoticed, and the blood is only on your own hands, just how many homosexuals have you had a hand in murdering I wonder, total hypocrisy.
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 16th, 2011
Can you even read? Or do you not bother trying?
I said nothing about having been involved in wars, and what does that have to do with anything anyway?
You said that you endorse the Bible's statement that gays should be killed. You said that. The Bible says that. Such killing is NOT justifiable, it is murder. You are endorsing murder.
I can't tell if you're just so upset that you can't think straight, or if you're intentionally trying to change the subject to hide your culpability.
Stop supporting murder, it's that simple. And if you're going to argue that killing gays isn't murder, please stick to the topic.
by HasntBeen on May 16th, 2011
“I said nothing about having been involved in wars”
Where did I say you did ?, it will much easier to reason on what you have to say if you stopped putting words into peoples mouths.
“what does that have to do with anything anyway”
I would have thought the point was already quite clear, but as you claim not to understand, I will say again, the only one of us that is linked in any way with the murder of homosexuals as you originally stated, is the one who votes for those who have done that.
HasntBeen have you ever voted for any of man's political parties at any time in your life ? If so you are indirectly responsible for the killing that has resulted, Fact.
“I can't tell if you're just so upset that you can't think straight, or if you're intentionally trying to change the subject to hide your culpability.”
The subject was homosexuality, the subject addressed is homosexuality, the subject continues to be homosexuality, can you explain why you think it has been changed, I'm sorry I cannot see where ?
“Stop supporting murder, it's that simple.”
Please explain how even one homosexual has been murdered from what I support ?
“And if you're going to argue that killing gays isn't murder, please stick to the topic.”
“killing gays isn't murder”..... Any killing done by human hand is murder regardless of what sexual orientation they happen to be, which is the very reason war was mentioned as this is very much to do with the subject, humans do not have the right to kill anyone!, is this plain enough for you to understand ?
I'm sorry HasentBeen, not sure what you mean by sticking to the topic, I answered the question bannanaphoneist asked, is not the asker of the question who decides the topic, which topic do you feel I am not sticking to ?
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 16th, 2011
This is not difficult, I'll walk you through it: the Leviticus verse I quoted says that gays should be killed. You responded to that by reciting how glad you were that the Bible says this. That is you supporting the murder of gays.
The rest is you pretending not to understand the accusation.
by HasntBeen on May 16th, 2011
Untrue, and I will explain why in a minute, firstly let me correct a wrong conclusion you made at the start of your comment by saying “You responded to that by reciting how glad you were that the Bible says this”
This was my exact response;
“yes it does capture God's true feelings for anyone that deliberately goes against what is natural and what they were originally designed for, and as their creator and the one who knows what is best, rightly so.”
I do not see here what you are claiming to suggest, so it would seem you do not want to learn from your mistakes of the recent past, putting words in others mouths, may I ask, do you make a habit of doing this when you have no other way of attacking anothers views ?.
Now, why what you are claiming is untrue;
Murder is the unlawful killing of another, what God does or commands cannot ever be unlawful, as he is the law and giver of all life, what God commands therefore cannot be considered murder.
For humans it is a different matter altogether and would have only been acceptable in the past in line with his understanding at that time.
Leviticus is a direct instruction from God at that time only and part of the law covenant, and so was not murder, however it also should be noted that with a overall understanding of scripture which many clearly fail in obtaining or even appreciate, this verse as part of the old law covenant is no longer in force at this time for good reasons, which again many fail to appreciate, and I will not bother going into at this time.
For true followers of God (at this time), homosexuals should not be physically protested against or obviously killed but should be helped in their predicament where possible and if allowed, recognising how God feels regarding their condition, one way of doing this would be making them aware of God's feelings on the matter by his past dealings for their future benefit. This though does not mean accepting what is happening, as it clearly remains morally wrong and unnatural in the eyes of God.
Now, why is it you have avoided answering the question which is very much part of “the topic” ?, could it be you are trying to avoid the outcome and blood guilt ?
“HasntBeen have you ever voted for any of man's political parties at any time in your life ?”
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 16th, 2011
oo bible fight!
by squiggleybop on May 16th, 2011
Your query about voting is entirely irrelevant to the discussion. I've ignored it and will continue to do so. It hasn't a leg to stand on in terms of relevance.
As for God's law being just -- well, that's circular reasoning. How would you know what justice is? If it's just "whatever God says", then it is arbitrary and ungrounded and the word is entirely meaningless. But of course, it does have a meaning which is fairly universal and non-religious in nature. If God declares something unjust, it does not magically become just just by his say-so, it must be grounded in the general principles of justice.
You approved this Leviticus law, with surprising enthusiasm. I don't know what word you want to use for it, but I was surprised. I expected some of the usual believer equivocation, but not you! Straight for the "good idea" position! You, that made my job simple.
Except for the part where you bombard me with words designed to make it obscure or change the subject. That's been pointless.
by HasntBeen on May 16th, 2011
hb, if you don't understand the reason why "whatever God says" is the right mentality, then it is no wonder you can't understand anything nc has been trying to explain. that is the root of YOUR problem. many, conclude they know more than God. it is this faulty thinking that will not allow them to reason otherwise.
by autumn leaves on May 16th, 2011
Thanks autumn leaves, that is exactly the point in case here :)
No problem HasntBeen, if you as you say are not prepared to reason on facts and prefer to ignore so be it, not much anyone can do then is there, I will leave you to your own self imposed delusions, as Jesus' set the example, and with some final appropriate scriptures for you to take no note of.
Have a good day HasntBeen :)
(Acts 19:9) “But when some went on hardening themselves and not believing, speaking injuriously about The Way before the multitude, he withdrew from them and separated the disciples from them”
(Luke 8:18) “Therefore, pay attention to how you listen; for whoever has, more will be given him, but whoever does not have, even what he imagines he has will be taken away from him.”
(1 Corinthians 2:14) “But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually.”
(Colossians 2:8) “Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ”
(Ephesians 4:18) “while they are in darkness mentally, and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensibility of their hearts.”
(1 Corinthians 3:19) “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.”
(2 Corinthians 3:15-16) “In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts. But when there is a turning to Jehovah, the veil is taken away.”
(Psalm 14:1) “The senseless one has said in his heart: “There is no Jehovah.” They have acted ruinously, they have acted detestably in [their] dealing. There is no one doing good.”
(2 Peter 3:16) “speaking about these things as he does also in all [his] letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
(2 Timothy 4:3-4) “For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.”
(Mark 7:21-23) “for from inside, out of the heart of men, injurious reasoning’s issue forth: fornication, thievery, murders, adulteries, covetings, acts of wickedness, deceit, loose conduct, an envious eye, blasphemy, haughtiness, unreasonableness. All these wicked things issue forth from within and defile a man.”
by nightcrawler0_2 on May 17th, 2011
Hmm. Seems like you're saying that you realize you've lost the argument on a logical basis, so now you're going to bring out your Big Flamethrower of Cut-and-Paste™ to melt your opponent down into a groveling pile of shamed goo.
Hehe. You're still endorsing murder, I'm still right, and your religion has once more demonstrated its moral vapidity. I'm re-amazed at how predictable and unimaginative y'all are.
The sincerity of your arguments would be more convincing if you had actually killed some gays yourself, demonstrating what a good idea it was. Absent that, you remain a hypocrite -- one who does not reason very clearly.
by HasntBeen on May 17th, 2011
so nc, for you to not be considered a hypocrite you need to murder yourself according to hb? okay!
by autumn leaves on May 17th, 2011