- NEW!
In context, this was at the Last Supper, just as Judas was leaving, and shortly after sold Jesus out to the Romans, according to the account in the Gospel of John. It at least implies it is possible Judas following a secret order of Jesus to set in motion the sequence of events leading up to his preordained crucifixion, which would in fact make him not the ultimate traitor but instead the most loyal and trusted apostle.
I'm not looking to debate whether we should believe in God or the Bible or whether the gospels are a true historical account or not. I'm not a Christian and actually doubt the historicity of Jesus and the gospels.
But I think it's an interesting question of scriptural interpretation worth encouraging discussion.
It exemplifies one of the contradictions at the heart of Christianity. The fact that Jesus clearly knew what Judas was about to do indicates that his path was pre-ordained. This fits in with the claim than God is omniscient. But clearly if Judas was following a pre-ordained path, then he had no free will. If he had free will, then God could not be omniscient. If God were omniscient, then there is no such thing as free will.
by level headed on August 10th, 2010
Judas was a traitor. He sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Jesus already knew the actions which will ultimately lead to his death. That's why he says to Judas do what you have to do. He also knew that Peter will deny him three times before the crow crows.
by thatsJustme on August 15th, 2010
I think he did betray him and in the same sense, he helped Jesus do what HE had to do....Accomplish........Judas might have been the one who understood Jesus and recognized the SAVIOR more than any of the others......
by TonieMoral on August 10th, 2010
Sounds like the plot for the next of those stupid tom hanks movies.....i can say either way that it doesn't affect what i think. Also, tom hands needs to stop turning into nicholas cage!
by WABOO on August 10th, 2010
The choice was Judas' and Jesus knew what Judas had conceived of in his thoughts so he said those words then.
by AB is an asylum run by the inmates, ciao! on August 10th, 2010
It typifies the dichotomous thinking that is fundamental to the entire core of Christian belief. The sacrifice of Jesus is fundamental to the basic plan so in order to fulfill it Judas had to sell Jesus out. The sale of Jesus by Judas was gods will and according to gods plan. If you think that Judas was a traitor then you also have to believe that god created Judas for the express purpose of being a traitor. That opens an Epicurian bucket of worms for the belief in, or worship of, god.
Just a thought can anyone tell me a little bit about judas iscariot, the disciple who betrayed jesus ? ........... answer to come m-26-6.m-14-3.
j-12-4. j-2-71
by edward on March 28th, 2008
| 1 person likes this
Was Judas intentionally trying to fulfil scripture when he "betrayed" Jesus? Didn't Jesus practically tell him to do it in the first place?
by huruey on March 24th, 2008
| 3 people like this
Was Judas a traitor when he did what was needed in God's plan.
by Michael on May 14th, 2008
| 2 people like this
What would have happened to Judas? He obviously was very sorry for what be had done...and he followed Jesus...and he just fell into temptation...and a lot of Christians commit suicide...would he be with Jesus now? Any verses to back up would be good.
by planet_spin on February 28th, 2008
| 3 people like this
Is Judas really to be blamed or to find fault with if he was responsible for the fulfillment of a prophecy made from ages way before his time?
by Kevisaurus is a Carnotaurus today on December 13th, 2007
| 4 people like this
You're reading Jesus to Judas: "Do quickly what you have to do." (John 13:27). Do you think this indicate Judas might not have betrayed Jesus?
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Comments
Yes, and if he had no free will, he could not be held morally responsible for any of his actions, and hence could not be punished in any way for them morally. None of us could.
Also, it would mean that Jesus's crucifixion, the very act which Christians believe allowed universal salvation through faith in Christ, was predicated on an act of betrayal and evil (ignoring for a moment that it's also evil to crucify people and that also seemed to be a predicate in all this). And since it was all preordained, it would be that God, in his omnipotence, creator of all things, ordained that we could only be saved through betrayal, suicide, and murder-by-the-state. And then you have to ask "why?".
by MvL on August 10th, 2010
so if judas died before jesus was he forgiven?
by phillywarrior on August 10th, 2010
@phillywarrior - I don't believe any of this. BUT, according to the most liberal thinking about Judas, he wouldn't have been forgiven because he killed himself. Even if we believe that he followed Jesus's orders when he "sold him out", the suicide in that case was an act of both lack of faith and ending his life all at once. If he betrayed him, well, then he betrayed him. Either way he wouldn't be forgiven according to Christian philosophy.
What about all those male babies killed by Herod? Did they get "forgiven"?
by MvL on August 10th, 2010
I don't know i don't understand all my life i been trying to understand christian philosophy i even read the bible from front to back i still don't get it. for a while now i've been denying christianity i don't feel any different nothing changed in my life
by phillywarrior on August 12th, 2010
@phillwarrior - well, an understanding of Christian philosophy won't come from reading the Bible. I mean, it helps, maybe even is critical. But a LOT of Christian philosophy is based in the philosophy of Plato, Aristotle, and the traditions that emerged from them. Read up on Christian philosopher-theologians like Thomas Aquinas. The neo-Platonists were very influential. This all helps to get a complete picture and understanding. Of course, it might not help to understand WHY Christians believe or follow it.
by MvL on August 12th, 2010
Ah Will do, you seem real smart and thanks for the info! I hope i can be as smart as you someday1
by phillywarrior on August 14th, 2010
@phillywarrior - I'm not that smart. I just know a lot about some areas of knowledge. There is plenty I know nothing about where I would seem mighty stupid.
by MvL on August 14th, 2010
Ah when you put it that way i understand lol.
by phillywarrior on August 14th, 2010