Why would Americans not want universal health care?

Comments

• Funny, but I believe it's true in a lot of cases. How sad.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• Oh man, this had me in stitches. I'd be fine with being a minority - it's someone else's turn to be the majority by a damn site. Good stuff - thanks for sharing. :)

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  by Anonymous on September 13th, 2009

• oh, please.. stop being racist.

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  by Capital J on September 13th, 2009

• Don't look at me, Capital J - I have bent over backwards trying to understand what the Teabagger/Birther/Obama is Marxist Fascist Kenyan Indonesian Muslim crowd is really protesting...and when you strip away the flowery rhetoric and logical contradictions, what you are left with is "The Scary Black Man is President! I'm scared!"
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  http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1651649
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  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/opinion/13dowd.html?_r=1
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  I'm sick and tired of it, and as President Obama says, I'm "calling them out" when they spew their crap.

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  by Old School on September 13th, 2009

• well sorry you feel that, my feeling is they lying politician is just like all the other lying politician and doing nothing to solve problems, creating more problems, and basically just wasting everyones time. like ive said the only reason racism is such a huge issue is because obama supporters want it to be.

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  by Capital J on September 13th, 2009

• @Capital J - If lying politicians are the problem, where were all the Teabaggers in the run-up to the Iraq war? Or about warrantless wiretapping. Or about the US attorney firings? Or the Valarie Plame outing?
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  http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Author_Cheney_has_been_first_deputy_0916.html
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  BULL-BLEEPING-S**T!
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  It's only 'lying' BLACK politicians that have the Teabaggers up in arms...and that's racism.

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  by Old School on September 13th, 2009

• well once againg its still only you talkin about race. just like all the dems pissed and moaned about dubya, now they act like obama is god. thats the way politics work, its all"what can you do for me." its always been that way, i think bush sucked just as bad as obama does. they both suck. so lets quit playin the race card, its 2009. and lets put someone in there worth having in.

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  by Capital J on September 13th, 2009

• @Capital J - Actions speak louder than words...and by their actions, the Teabaggers (and the GOP) have shown their racist motivations.
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  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5147032/Firearm-sales-surge-after-Barack-Obamas-election.html

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  by Old School on September 13th, 2009

• i think your delusional. they dont hate obama cause hes black, they hate him cause hes dem. get a grip on reality.

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  by Capital J on September 13th, 2009

• @Capital J - Can you show me a similar spike in gun/ammo sales when Clinton or Carter became President? Didn't think so....
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  Go to YouTube and look at some video from Palin rallies last year. I rest my case.

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  by Old School on September 13th, 2009

• ok so let me get this right!!! the fact that ammo prices went up makes gop racist???? is that really what your saying?? are you also one of those people claiming david stern is racist for demanding players wear suits on a plane??

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  by Capital J on September 13th, 2009

• @Capital J - When white Democratic men became President, there was NO spike in gun/ammo SALES (prices are beside the point).
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  When a black Democratic man (who made ZERO public pronouncements about guns in his campaign) was elected President, suddenly the country went bananas buying guns.
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  If you can't see the obvious truth in front of your face, I don't know how much clearer they can make it.

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  by Old School on September 13th, 2009

• its perfectly clear, he banned guns in chicago, what makes you think he wont try in the us???

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  by Capital J on September 13th, 2009

• and reguardless well say your delusions are actually true... how does buying guns simply on speculation he will try to pass laws make people racist??

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  by Capital J on September 13th, 2009

• @Capital J - You just gave yourself away. You state "He banned guns in Chicago..."
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  BUZZZZZZ!
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  WRONG ANSWER!
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  http://www.factcheck.org/.../...argets_obama.html
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  Now who is the one having the delusions?
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  As for 'buying guns on speculation'....The NRA (and the GOP) have been raising money and votes on "Dem libruls is gonna take away yer guns' for DECADES! Suddenly in late 2008 people decide to take them seriously?
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  BULL BLEEPING S**T!

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  by Old School on September 13th, 2009

• Get over yourself. That excuse is SO tattered. I'll use it to clean the cat box out with after I dump it out. K?

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• Ok well. Buzz. Urself. He made it illegal to own a gun unless its registered. At the same time making it illegal to register handguns. That's not makin guns illegal?? My best friend at work lived in chicago 20+ years and tells everyone about chicago everyday. Supports obama and thinks the gun band is a joke. He's black by the way and also agrees the dems blow this race bullshit out of proportion. When u hear a 48 year old man say that u know its gone too far!

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  by Capital J on September 14th, 2009

• I was talking to Old School for his initial answer, sorry for the missunderstanding.

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  by Gonforgood on September 14th, 2009

Comments

• So let the poor die becaue you don't believe in big government? Hmmmm? A rather selfish argument.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• Not at all. Big government takes from those who have, and rarely provides anything efficient to those in need. Sorry, but I became a Libertarian based on how effective & efficient government usually is. I hope my life never depends on what the government can provide me, and I pity those who do. Just my opinion.

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  by Beavis - the other white meat on September 13th, 2009

• Ageed +5

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 13th, 2009

• Hear! Hear! +3

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• Fact is that the government runs our lives now, taxes, housing, trasportation and even healthcare are all subsidisied by by the governmaent. You are fighting a loosing battle.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• Actually, Beavis, it's even worse than you present it. Big government takes from ALL, and MOST (in relative terms) from those who can least afford it. I'm a Libertarian for the same reason you are, AND for the reason that all of us --and especially "the poor" -- would be better off with less. But some are blind to that.

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  by Cyanotic Wasp on September 19th, 2009

• I most heartily agree!

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  by Beavis - the other white meat on September 19th, 2009

Comments

Comments

• We seem to be in a vanishingly small minority. Personally, I'm 100% in favor of everyone having health insurance ... and enough to eat ... and warm clothes for their kids ... and a nice place to live ... and a good, reliable car ... and a flat screen TV ... and everything else they could want. But I don't want to have to provide it for them. And I don't even have my own flat screen TV yet.

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  by Cyanotic Wasp on September 13th, 2009

• Amen!

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  by The Chief on September 13th, 2009

• Who said anything about a flat screen? Stick to the facts please your way off topic and it just shows how fearful you are that someone else might get something you don't have. It's not about getting "stuff" it's abouit helping those who can't help themselves. How sad that you live in such fear.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• ??
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  I don't see where Wasp, or anyone here, is living in fear by making such statements, Abbyguy.
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  That he drifted a little off to one side while providing some examples in his comment doesn't mean he's fearful of anything. That wasn't even the gist of his comment.
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  Seems to me that he's pretty much in agreement with you when he stated he's all for everyone having healty insurance. He just doesn't happen to agree with the methods. No more, no less.
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  :):)

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

• Talk about sticking to facts ... the idea that any part of this discussion is about "helping those who can't help themselves" is worth discussing in itself. Really, now. The richest nation in the world ... in the HISTORY of the world ... is filled with people who can't help themselves? Okay, not "filled", I suppose, but "overrun", perhaps? Not "overrun"? "Awash?" You pick a word, Abbyguy, and let's discuss that.
   
  It is a fact that there is a significant minority of people in this country who, for whatever reason -- and there are many, and those reasons are worth discussing, too -- lack health insurance. One of the reasons is that health insurance is very expensive, which is also worth discussing. Does anyone think that government-run health care will be cheaper? That's certainly worth discussing.
   
  We could also discuss the entitlement mentality in this country that I've witnessed for over 40 years which has led to massive public housing projects (FAIL), food assistance programs (marginal FAIL), Medicare and Medicaid (FAILING) and the granddaddy of all of them, Social Security (pending MASSIVE FAIL). This is not to mention all of the various smaller problems created by government "for our benefit" with unfunded public pensions, road building and failure-to-maintain, Amtrak and nearly any other government agency you'd care to mention, including the US Postal Service. In typical fashion, the government creates programs to "solve" a perceived (and hyped-up) "problem", and then a few years later creates a new agency ... to fix the problems introduced by the program it created in the first place.
   
  It's also a fact that many Americans ... don't lead very healthy lifestyles. Too many of us eat too much of the wrong foods, smoke, drink too much, don't sleep enough, take on too much stress for the wrong things, and don't exercise enough. "Universal Health Insurance" won't fix that. Would you propose another government program? I wouldn't.
   
  You didn't ask what the solution might be, Abbyguy (in that snarky, negatively-phrased Q of yours), and I'm not about to discuss any of my ideas with you here, but "a new government program" is NOT the answer.

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  by Cyanotic Wasp on September 19th, 2009

• Wasp: Sorry for hurting your fragile feelings.
  The fact that you ARE the richest (for now) country in the world behooves you to take care of those people who can't help themselves. It is your duty. Or do you believe as others have said on this question that "what I have is mine and I'm not sharing?"
  If those with money helped those without then there would be no us vs them mentality. (Refering to those with old money and corporations, not the mid-class people)
  I did not ask what the solution was because I wanted to see how many true capitalists that would answer the question.
  You are correct about may not leading healthy lifestyles and that would be a burden,. but until the us vs them mentality is done away with the US will continue to fail as a society.
  It's losing ground now and rapidly, to countries like China and ten or twenty years you will be a nation of have nots asking what went wrong?

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• I fail to see how mere riches obligate one to care for those who "cannot" help themselves. Wealth is not a requirement to help others. Common decency is.
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  When I was growing up, my parents raised five kids without being "rich". Yet we helped plenty of people around us. I have been there and done that. That's what being family, friends, and good neighbors is all about.
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  Too many people use this "poor" label as an excuse. Neither my parents nor any of us children felt like it was an "obligation" for "rich" people to "take care of" us. Taking care of one another isn't something that the rich are obligated to do. It's something we are ALL supposed to do, rich or poor.
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  I don't know anything about you, Abbyguy, other than what you care to share here. But I'm telling you right now that my parents were anything BUT wealthy financially.

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

• You say that if those with money helped those without than there would be no us vs them mentalty. I say that's bull. Why? Because I've seen it. It's human nature.
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  I, like my parents, did not wish to have the rich care for me. I wanted to care for myself, to better myself and help my own children better themselves.
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  I'll be the last person on this planet to say that such people don't need help. They do. And by d*mn, I do my part to help who I can! I do it not because I'm rich (I'm not), nor because my larder overfloweth with food (It doesn't), nor because I think I owe it to people. I do it because I was raised that it was the right thing to do.
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  And were I dirt poor, I'd STILL help.
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  Interesting, though, that my parents, and their parent before them, set the groundwork for me and my children to lead better lives...and now people start to look at me and my children and, eventually THEIR children as "bad people" because we're no longer at the bottom of the heap? Like somehow we OWE it to everybody else?
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  Bull.

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

• I can show you any number of people who sit on their rear ends taking handouts and gladly letting others support them instead of making an effort to support themselves. I can take you around to people who will take great pride in telling YOU that YOU owe THEM.
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  Yeah, there are those who really need and deserve help. And they should get it, too.
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  But I'll be d*mned if I believe it's ANYBODY'S duty to simply provide it because they happen to be "rich".
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  And, contrary to popular belief, many "rich" people do PLENTY to help those who need it! The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, for example, does this aplenty. To the tune of BILLIONS, not millions, of dollars EACH YEAR.
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  http://www.gatesfoundation.org/annualreport/2008/Documents/2008-annual-report.pdf

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

• And that's just ONE example. Yeah, not everybody does. But you know, the whole effin' world would be a h*ll of a lot better off if EVERYBODY helped out. And since MOST of the world isn't "rich", that's a pretty big body of people who could be doing the helping.
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  My parents and ancesters did. I do. And hopefully my children and grandchildren will as well.

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

• You make some very valid points and may I appoligize for being out of line. I just see all the money in the world and the poeple like your parents (and mine) that work their asses off and never get anywhere. I have learned to be happy with what I have and don't even want to be rich, I would propbably give a lot away anyway.
  I do however believe the ultra-rich have a responsibility to society to help those in need, if not with money then with education and foundations like the one you pointed out. There's more than enough money to go around but the rich want it all and more, the middle-class is shrinking, you and I will soon be a thing of the past if things don't change. Healthcare is just one thing that the rich should provide and people like you and I still need to give of ourselves no matter what, it's how we grow as human beings.
  There will always be those that milk the system and that may never change, but that shouldn't cause us to become selfish. We need to be better than that.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• Thank you, Abbyguy.
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  I still don't believe the ultra-rich have any more of an obligation than any of the rest of us simply by virtue of their wealth, though.
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  Many people lay a lot of cr*p on the doorsteps of the rich (in America, anyway) without understanding a lot about, say, the tax system in this country. They think the rich are simply loaded to the gills in cash and pay LESS in taxes as a result. And they are TOTALLY and WILLFULLY ignorant as to how the rich and the tax system work to support the economy.
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  This country seems willing to put up failed, and failing, social programs and then continue to pump BILLIONS into them and then, to fix the problems they are failing to address, pump untold BILLIONS more into MORE programs instead of fixing the ones we have.
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  Why? Because too many people are trying to line their own pockets with a piece of the action instead of making things work the way they're supposed to.

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

• Human nature at work yet again. And it AIN'T just the "rich" doing this. It's all those people in the system who want a piece of the pie and d*mn anybody who stands between them and what they feel is owed to them!
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  Social Security and Medicare/Medicade are programs established to provide income and medical care in this country and they've been so f*cked up by the government that they are on the frickin' brink of a multibillion dollar collapse.
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  Even the states do the SAME kind of boondoggle with programs like "educational lotteries" which are SUPPOSED to use state run lotteries to help fund the educational systems in their states. Yet, you have many of these states dipping into those very same funds for OTHER things, and at the same time cutting back on their tax revenue that would NORMALLY have been earmarked for public education, and then having the gall to b*tch about how underfunded the educational system is in their states.

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

• And THIS is what we want to have happen on a national level, to the tune of not billions, but HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars, and even into the TRILLIONS? Because that's EXACTLY what will happen!
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  Mark my words and watch as a few years go by.
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  Because the insurance and medical systems will STILL keep syphoning money out of our pockets, since the cost of medical care will NOT go down. Period. Why? Because nothing is being done to address the root cause of why medical care is so high and then to provide a reasonable method to reduce it.
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  So it won't happen. And yet we'll pay hundreds of billions of dollars into programs just to "find that out" later.

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

• Son't get me wrong. There are a LOT of good people out there who are honestly trying to come up with a system that works. They honestly care about making it work the way it should.
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  But by the time these things work their way through our legal system on their way to becoming law, they are going to be so effed up seven ways from Sunday that they might just as well end up being bills that call for burning piles of cash for home heating, for all the good they will do in the long run.
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  I do NOT have confidence in our Government to run such a program when they've proven themselves incompetent in the long run on similar programs.

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  by The Chief on September 19th, 2009

Comments

• So your saying that because of failures of past adminitrations the people who need this most should just die? Since when does any amount of money mean more than a single human life?

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• Since the begining of currencies; LOL, how nieve; +5

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 13th, 2009

• what hes saying is after 200+ years of failure YOU PEOPLE should realize our government doesnt always have our best interests in mind, nor or competent enough to pull things off. This country was founded on the premise we wanted LESS government control and as he as displayed we keep giving them more and more and more power and it never pays off for the average citizen. failure after failure after failure. and he has even left out what a great job they have done with our infastructure. If this great healthcare plan you all keep pushing would be so great why do the politicians want to be exempt from it???

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  by Capital J on September 13th, 2009

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• That's really not true. More and more companies are trimming their plans because of spiraling costs, dropping coverage altogether or pushing more of the cost onto employees. More and more jobs are going offshore because US companies have a huge extra burden in paying for the healthcare of their employees while all the rest of the developed world's companies have no such costs. More and more people are stuck in a dead-end job because they have a preexisting condition and if they change jobs they won't be able to get coverage. And finally more and more people with an entrepreneurial idea are unable to exercise it and provide new jobs because they can't afford the astronomical costs levied on small start-ups. Blue Cross for me and my wife runs $2.600 a month!

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on September 13th, 2009

• We are both in favor of a national plan, I think. Just pointing out one aspect.

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  by Wide Awake @ has closing date woo hoo on September 13th, 2009

• Yeah, I was hoping that maybe just this once we could see the current system is unsustainable and do something to fix it before it becomes a complete disaster.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on September 13th, 2009

• Jim the fact is that most Americans in fact 47% of them do not want government involved in health care,,but I don't think Obama cares what the public thinks.

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  by Gone on October 28th, 2009

• The fact is that 55% want a public option and 70% of doctors agree. And the fact is that a whole bunch of seniors want the government to keep its hands off their Medicare! With all the prpoaganda on Gubment Bad we've had in recent times, I am not surprised by these contradictions. President Obama ran on a platform of reforming healthcare and won a commanding majority. That's a mandate to change the system, not let the Vast Republican Noise Machine with its Gubment Bad mantra derail reform of a system that is unsustainable in its present form.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on October 28th, 2009

Comments

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• LOL. Thanks.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• good point, look what happened to Social Security. +4

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 13th, 2009

• The difference is that social security was never supposed to work in the first place. Start collecting at 65, die at 67. Most people didn't live that long. It was a scam, and nothing's changed since then. The American government, as are most, is just an extension of the law "the strong eat the weak".

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  by IntotheForge on September 14th, 2009

• you got a point there, they keep moving the age around; you think if they got control over healthcare they would run it the same way?

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 14th, 2009

• I dunno. I try to pin Obama and the new crew down, but every time they manage to prove me wrong. I don't really know what's going to happen. I can only hope that whatever comes out is either so effective or so completely fucked that it moves us toward preventative medicine and livestyle adjustments and away fro ma sickness management healthcare industry, so maybe we'll be healthy again. Still, I shouldn't have to sell my stuff just to buy antibiotics for a staph infection, and any system that will undo this is one I'll probably use, even if begrudgingly.

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  by IntotheForge on September 14th, 2009

• you and me both, were all in the same tub of shit it seems; I like stickin it to the man

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 15th, 2009

Comments

• Apparently you haven't seen the poll numbers recently. We are NOT the minority.

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• Yes you are the minority, except in polls carefully designed to create a phony majority. Bear in mind that the healthcare industry in america is 1/6th of our Gross Domestic Product now. With $2.6 trillion in revenues, they can afford a huge display of AstroTurf.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on September 13th, 2009

• Wow. You people are amazing...

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• What amazes me is your ability to deny the facts in preference of smoke and mirrors.

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  by Rufus_T_Firefly on September 13th, 2009

• Rufus..to whom are you addressing your remarks? Thank you and Happy Sunday to you! :)

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  by RosieGHM Jetpacker on September 13th, 2009

• 1.6 percent: Since when has a poll been accurate? I agree with Rosie, the vocal minority gets ALL the attention.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• Were they not within a few tenths of the actual results about the election in favor of Obama?

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

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• "Killing Grandmas"? "Offing Veterans?" By offering them MORE choices for healthcare?
  Sounds like Rush O'Reinnity has gotten to you.

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  by Wide Awake @ has closing date woo hoo on September 13th, 2009

• Most don't 47% appose, 40% support.

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  by Gone on October 28th, 2009

• Mandomike, it depends on how you ask the question. Ask if you favor a government takeover of healthcare, and you get a strong percentage opposing. But a strong percentage favor having a Public Option.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on October 28th, 2009

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• That answer would make great sense if any of it's basic assertions about the proposed fix had even a tiny bit of truth to them. However, the truth is that the USA is right at the bottom of the developed world in healthcare outcomes. Yet we spend half again as much per person as the country with the next most expensive system. And all the countries that top us in healthcare outcomes but pay way less to get more have some form of universal healthcare.

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  by Jim in a Nautilus COAT on September 13th, 2009

• Oh good grief. If you can tell me one government program that hasn't exploded in cost to run lets do it. But alas, there isn't one because our government can't do anything efficiently except make war (which is fine with me). Besides, how would you know? Have you heard any of the other sides proposals? No, because the dems don't want to hear them in all there tunnel vision on this, or any other issue much less let the public know about any reasonable opposing views. And also, I'd like to keep my standard of living as high as possible by keeping as much of MY money as I can, not let bureaucrats give it to others who make poor decisions in life.

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• The U.S. ranks 37th in the list of ALL of the world's best healthcare systems.

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  by Rufus_T_Firefly on September 13th, 2009

• By who's standards? CNN or MSNBC?

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• No you don't, Rufus is correct, there are plenty of good examples around the world the make the American system look as sick as it already is. Don't let money be your bencmark for human life, you can't put a price on it.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• I like your thinking 1.6 percent +6

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 13th, 2009

• I believe those standards were set by the WHO, 1.6, and not CNN or MSNBC, nor Faux News.

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  by Rufus_T_Firefly on September 13th, 2009

• Also 1.6, only a true sociopath would think making war is worth anyone's time.

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  by Rufus_T_Firefly on September 13th, 2009

• America has the best health care system in the world ... We sure do! That's why when powerful people across the world get sick they come here. We've never sent our president overseas for superior health care. Not even to Canada!

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  by Nate on September 13th, 2009

• Nate, you're talking about rich foreigners who come to America to be healed or to have critical and elective surgeries which are not available in their own countries. That has NOTHING to do with the flawed American healthcare systems in use by normal, everyday Americans and does absolutely nothing to prove that our health system is the best in the world. Your statement is both misleading and incorrect. America ranks a low 37th in quality of care given when compared against ALL of the other healthcare systems in the world. That places us BEHIND countries such as: France, Italy, San Marino, Andorra, Malta, Singapore, Spain, Oman, Austria, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Monaco, Greece, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Ireland and
  Switzerland. And that's just the top twenty! However, you are partially correct, we ARE #1... in healthcare costs.

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  by Rufus_T_Firefly on September 13th, 2009

• Fair enough. My examples show that the best health care to be had is in America but do not show the accessibility to health care for the general populace. I'm not saying our system is perfect, but is good. Every adult I know that does not use drugs, is in the nation legally, and has a full time job has access to health insurance. I think we need to make it easier for employers to offer coverage and easier for them to employee more people. I do not want anyone to get a free ride off of my tax dollars though.

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  by Nate on September 13th, 2009

• Because of the way the current system is set up, those people are already getting a free ride off of your tax dollars.

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  by Rufus_T_Firefly on September 13th, 2009

• Agreed. I'd like to see any sort of reform get rid of free loaders. I should say that I do not see children, retirees (who've paid into the American system their whole lives, our their spouses have), or people that are temporarily unemployed or displaced as free loaders. Rufus, would you agree that we should not give handouts to free loaders? Do you agree with my definition of free loaders? Also, could you provide a link to the research behind the raking of countries on the basis of health care. I'd be very interested to read it.

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  by Nate on September 13th, 2009

• Thank you Nate! Thats exactly what I'm trying to express. Again, other peoples poor life decisions should not come out of my pocket. It's just strange to me that "poor" people can afford beer, liquor, cigarettes, cell phones and cable every month but can't afford health insurance (or to feed there kids in many cases). Their failure to plan does not constitute an emergency on my part.

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• I AM FOR REFORM!! But I won't tolerate a complete take-over! Why is that the only option?! Why can't things that need to be changed be addressed? You have NO clue how the bill is actually worded and neither does Obama! That bill was sitting in some member of congress' desk drawer when Obama was sworn in. And if you all think it's so important and that it won't infringe on our rights, then why are they all trying to cram it through so fast? It's because the faster they do it the lower it is under the radar. If they wanted to do it right, they would take time to make sure of the details.

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• ....

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  by Gonforgood on September 13th, 2009

• I'm with you 1.6 (and I'd buy a beer for you if I could). I'd like to see them pass it one piece at a time and see what works and what doesn't. i.e. "Okay, last month we negotiated lower prices from drug manufacturers and so far it looks good. This month we'll enact tort reform and see how it looks..." There is no way that passing 1000+ pages of reform all at once and as quickly as possible will do anything good. By the way, where's everyone who complained that no one read the PATRIOT Act?

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  by Nate on September 13th, 2009

• Nate, you seem to be stressing an employer-provided system, much like the failing system that we have now. what about those among us who are not covered by health insurance due to loss of their job and who are presently unable to find work? Are we just going to let them die because they can't afford medical care? They're not free-loaders, they're victims of economic downfall, they're people just like you and I. How would you feel if the tables were turned? And, please don't say it couldn't happen to you, because you know it can happen to anyone.
  1,6, if you think that Obama doesn't know how the bill has been worded, you either haven't read it yourself, or you're as uninformed as you claim the he is.

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  by Rufus_T_Firefly on September 13th, 2009

• Those among us who presently can't find work should not be shunned. That's what I meant when I said temporarily unemployed or displaced. As far as it couldn't happen to me... it could. And that's why I have saved 6-9 months of living expenses. I did this by choosing to live beneath my means. I'm no millionaire. I'm a former highschool dropout, former convicted felon, former drug user. Guess how much I've received in welfare ... $0.00. We Americans are strong people, and if we try we can always take care of ourselves in the long run. But no, I don't mind helping people down on their luck for a short while. In fact I'd like to see the CCC come back so anyone in need of help would have a guaranteed job.

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  by Nate on September 13th, 2009

• I'm glad to hear you say that. With so many people living meagerly from paycheck to paycheck, who are we to begrudge them a little entertainment to lift them up out of the mire? Doesn't everyone deserve a chance to lift their spirits and kick up their heels once in a while? Exactly how do we measure and identify those who are living beyond their means? It's not always obvious. It's not always laid out in black and white, so looking at it the way you obviously do would appear, on the surface, to be a little harsh. I'm not accusing, I'm just saying.

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  by Rufus_T_Firefly on September 13th, 2009

• Finally, some intelligence in AB; now were really talking about healthcare. +10 all around

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 14th, 2009

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• So money trums human life? Wow, how narrow minded.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• human life depends on money, thats a reality only realized by those that work; if you dont work, than you start thinking the world owes you something. +4

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 13th, 2009

• My life / my money. Yes, that trumps "other people's needs", except as I choose on an individual basis to do something about meeting or filling those needs. What in hell is WRONG with being "selfish", anyway?

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  by Cyanotic Wasp on September 13th, 2009

• We all take care of ourselves and those we love, why should we be responsible for hundreds of others yo?...

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  by Ec-nal Licensed Bootie Inspector on September 13th, 2009

• Cyanotic Wasp: You will learn that we are not all speperate, what you do to someone else you do to yourself. That's what is wrong with our society today no-one gives a shit about the other guy.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• You picked on the wrong customer. No one cares, gives or loves more than Ec yo...
  :)

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  by Ec-nal Licensed Bootie Inspector on September 19th, 2009

• Abbyguy, you don't know me at all. You have no idea how generous I am with my time, money, and "things" -- and I am generous. But I refuse to accept that "everyone else's needs" trump mine. I have wants and needs of my own, and I work to try to fill them. I resent that people like you think that you know better than I do what to do with my money -- my life. I'm not at all charitable or generous to that attitude.

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  by Cyanotic Wasp on September 19th, 2009

• Perhaps you are generous or maybe not, I bet you are as generous as you think you are or you wouldn't be so defensive.
  You may do with "your" money as you wish but next time you step over a "bum" in the street try not judging them, because you haven't walked in their shoes either. You say you have wants and needs. Way your wnats against your needs and the are most likely way out of wack, as most peoples are, including myself, after all what do we really "need"? Do we need a new car when an older one will do? Or that flatscreen TV so we can watch the rich movie stars in their lastest bid to entertrain us? What about the amoun we eat, we need far less then we eat and that is why we getting so fat and lazy, with those health problems that come with the trappings of the Weastern "lifstyle."
  No, I don't by it, sorry. Have a nice life-style, ask yourself on your death-bed if maybe you shoulda bought that boat or another? Or maybe you will have seen the light by then.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• So Abbyguy, what have you done with your money for the poor, that would lead us to be awe inspired by your grand magnificents; you talk the talk, do you walk the walk.

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  by President Norris 2016 on September 21st, 2009

• You'll never know.

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  by Abbyguy on September 21st, 2009

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• You need to get your facts straight before you make that giant leap into what-if land. It seems that all those oppsed are just doing it because they don't understand what the benfits to them will be. I live in Canada, we have healthcare and it's great, sure there are some problems with it but show me a system that is perfect and I will show you one only made by God Himself. It has far more benefits then drawbacks in my view.

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  by Abbyguy on September 25th, 2009

• I'm sorry-I thought that the question was meant for people in the USA....what their reasons were for not wanting it.
  
  I was stating my reasons for not wanting it. I have serious physical health issues,and have great healthcare right now-I would certainly not want the kind of healthcare that my friend describes in his country, that's for sure.
  
  I'm glad you are happy with the healthcare in your country though-that's truly a blessing, especially if you have health problems. :)

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  by Jesus_Saves on September 25th, 2009

• It was meant for people in the USA, I was just responding from a Canadian point of view. As a Canadian who has great coverage I can't for the life of me figure out why it would not be wanted????
  I to have serious health problems and without it I would not be able to afford medication or even keep my house.
  :-)

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  by Abbyguy on September 25th, 2009

• Ok, then can you explain the coverage for me? Is it the exact same coverage for everyone, despite their age, social status, or health problems?
  
  Why do the insurance companies not want this to pass?

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  by Jesus_Saves on September 25th, 2009

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• Yes. When I get sick I go to my Dr. he sends me to get tests or the hospital or wherever I need to go. All I pay is a small premium if I am not employed - under $100 a month -and if I am employed the company pays as part of a benefit package. What's not to like? I never have to worry about getting sick or having kids and how I will pay for the services. I would rather have it than not have it like many people in the US.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• Thanks for your personal story. I'm told there are many happy with the plan in Canada, especially the unemployed or marginally employed.

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  by Wide Awake @ has closing date woo hoo on September 13th, 2009

• Yeah..I guess they have a right to be happy...since they're alive to be happy about it. You suggest they just up and kill themselves Phoenix?

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  by scubabob on September 13th, 2009

• Any one can get medical help without one question asked. Isn't that how it should be? A society is judged on how it takes care or it's marginalized and fringe people isn't it? I'm proud that we took care of this problem yeras ago.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• If I spoke French, I would move to Canada in a New York minute. I understand, though, that if you don't speak French, it is quite difficult to get a citizenship. Nothing wrong with that, just a fault on my part. Perhaps one day.

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  by Anonymous on September 13th, 2009

• It's not a prerequisite for citizenship. It may make life a little more difficult if you chose Quebec as a home without it but since it's law to provide essential services in both official languages even that's a hurdle easily overcome. What really counts is what are you bringing to the table skills wise and are you actually admissible.

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  by scubabob on September 13th, 2009

• I have plenty to bring to "the table" skills-wise - and if being "admissible" means not having a criminal history, than I'm squeaky clean.
  
  Have you ever actually looked at all of the requirements of becoming a Canadian citizen? Trust me on the French issue, it's not officially required, but it may as well be.

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  by Anonymous on September 13th, 2009

• cid-viscous: Scuba is correct in saying that if you want to move to quebec they would want it but I live in BC and we get all sorts (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, East Indian and more) of people that speak neither French nor English. I live in an area where about 1/3 the population is Sikh and when they come the only language they know is Punjabi, so I ir should not be a problem. Having said that they might want you to either have a job lined up or be able to start a business so that you can support yourself, and not need the system to help.

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  by Abbyguy on September 13th, 2009

• Thanks Abbyguy. Cid..that's the way it is. If you have the french skills and also something else that the province needs..good. If not..sorry. And yes...being criminal record free is a huge help. Americans don't want our refuse and we don't want theirs. It also helps if you leave the baggage behind. We don't want it. None of it.

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  by scubabob on September 13th, 2009

• Baggage? Refuse? Not diggin' the tone. Assuming makes an ass out of you, not me.

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  by Anonymous on September 25th, 2009

• Sid where was the assuption? Everyone has some baggage, just some have more than others. Chillax.

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  by Abbyguy on September 25th, 2009

• First off, it's Cid. Secondly, what do you mean by baggage? What does that have to do with becoming a citizen of another country? Does Canada have a limit on mental baggage for it's citizens? Lastly, the term "chillax" makes me quite agitated and anything but chill or relaxed.

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  by Anonymous on September 25th, 2009

• Sorry "CID" my mistake. First off it was Scuba that used the term "baggage" not me, so I cannot speak to what he was refering to.
  Secondly, depends on your feinition of "mental baggage" I guess? If You have been diagnosed and have a record of being mentaly unstable then ya that could be a problem. But if it's just issues with dear old Dad or an ex, then who gives a crap right?
  Thirdly, "chillax" means to chill or relax, where I live.;-P

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  by Abbyguy on September 25th, 2009

• Cid.."baggage" means some old hate on that you may have for a particular ethnic group or an old score to settle with a rival faction from wherever you're coming from. Just by the tone you're taking, methinks Canada is not for you if you only come to one conclusion regarding "baggage" and immigration issues being used in a single sentence. No..I guess I better make it plainer. I'm not talking about your Ex wife ( if you have one) either or any mental health issues you may have. I'm talking simply about old country baggage. As for the requirement for the French language. I'd like you to give me a single Government of Canada Immigration source that claims that it's required to have the French language. Just one.

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  by scubabob on September 25th, 2009

• I was actually originally speaking to Scubabob about the "baggage" - but you decided to jump into the fray, so.. there you have it.
  
  What part of my statement about chillax did you not understand? No shit it means to "chill" and to "relax".. I stated that the term itself agitates me, because it's just another bastardization of our language. No one likes to be told to relax - it only agitates more if they are already in that state. It's like yelling at someone to stop yelling.
  
  So anyhow, thanks for speaking for all of Canada and letting me know whether or not I measure up to your standards, eh? Fucktard.

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  by Anonymous on September 25th, 2009

• Scubsbob - I never stated that it was required - I said that it might as well be.. for that was the impression I had. I apologize for any misconceptions on that.
  
  I have no hate for a particular ethnic group or old score to settle with a rival faction - but in my country, baggage usually refers to mental baggage - it's simply a difference of colloquialisms. Thank you, though, for telling me I probably won't be fit for citizenship based on my tone - that's nice to know.

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  by Anonymous on September 25th, 2009

• Ater reading your diatribe and seeing that maybe your are a little light in the mental department I'm sure we don't need a another douche-bag like you so go lick yourself. What an idiot, you can't debate or even respond inteligengly so you resort to personal attacks,

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  by Abbyguy on September 25th, 2009

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• Hmmmm? So becuase it will cost money you are willing tolet people who can't afford it suffer and die?
  What is the alternativ?

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• Hey I never said what my position is, I'm just relaying information.

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  by Fiddle Playing Creole Bastard on September 19th, 2009

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• 1.)No they wouldn't they would just pay for them.
  2.)That's bs, or is that you thinkDrs only get into medcine for the money? If they do they should not be Drs in the first place.
  3.)More bs, see above.
  4.)The only reason we Canadians come to you is because you have more advanced technology, that would not change.
  5.)You do NOT have the best in the world, it is ranked #37, you just have the best technology, once again see above.
  6.)The pharmecuticals run your system now, that's why everything costs so much, and why the poor are unable to get real treatment.
  There should be more restraints put on them they are poisoning people not helping the but treating the syptom not the cause.
  Medicaid and Medicare. If they work so well why are so many people suffering and going bankrupt with medicl bills?
  Your argument holds NO water.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

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• Good comment, thanks.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

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• Are you for real???? You sound like the type that would step over a dying person in the street because it may cost you a few dollars. Pathetic!

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• I am for real. I wasn't born with money -- had to work for everything I have.
  
  I've made bad choices -- dropped out of high school, started using drugs, and I've been convicted of a felony.
  
  Through hard work I turned my life around -- graduated at the age of 20, quit drugs, and started working with a real work ethic.
  
  Now I have a steady paycheck, health insurance and a life I can take pride in. If a drugged up, high school dropout, convicted felon can do it, anyone can.

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  by Nate on September 19th, 2009

• I should also add that I admire your sense of charity. Helping those in need of help is great thing. Creating a system that penalizes hard work and personal success while rewarding laziness and giving up is a horrible thing. Perhaps I'm old school, but I believe giving charity should be a choice not an federal mandate. Choice would foster feelings of appreciation and belonging while obligation only fosters feelings of entitlement and resentment.

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  by Nate on September 20th, 2009

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• What's your point ? Your all over the map.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

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• What tactics would those be? Helping those in need? Being more compassionate? Actualy caring about my nabor.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

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• We only send there when people want to pay extra for a service to jump to the front of the line. We have private Medical clinics aswell that do the very smame thing.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• Yes, this selfish woman wanted to jump to the front of the line though Cdn natl health could take care of her: http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=78b28230-d3ff-47d3-ab04-fff760931f1a .
  For anyone who believes your stock excuse, I have this bridge to sell, spans from Brooklyn to Manhattan, it's called the Brooklyn Bridge....
  By the way don't challenge me to come up with 20 or even 100 more examples pronto. I beat them at this every time.

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  by More2Be on September 19th, 2009

• Pull your head out of your ass. You can spin anything the way you want it. I live here I kmow the way it really is so bite me.
  There is always going to be people that fall through the cracks with any system, but the American one still ranks 37th in the world so lick me hard.

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

• Wow, those people sure do get angry when you put it right in front of them that their bureaucrats cannot even provide care for their own pregnant women. Women get pregnant, and it catches bureaucrats by such complete surprise!

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  by More2Be on September 19th, 2009

• You know nothing but what the media tells you, so that's not much,
  I live it everyday, I see it, I have cancer I see how well the system works for those who need it and don't have to pay a thing. So shut up until you get your so-called facts straight. The Us system still at #37 and all you rhetoric will not change it, so you deserve to live in a messed up country like you do. Livin in Ohio you are propbaly belong to the NRA. Yeeha gonna kill me sometin to make me feel like a man, yehaa!

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  by Abbyguy on September 19th, 2009

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