I'm an atheist, and my family is trying to bribe me to go to church. Should I go? What is your opinion if I do? If I don't? Has this ever happened to you? Do you think it is hypocritical for an atheist to participate in church to appease someone else?

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• good answer, points for you!

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  by daishotachi on March 18th, 2007

• The problem is, most of the time I have no choice but to go, because I'm "a child" and I am forced to go. If I'm given a choice and don't go, then I get the "I'm severly disappointed in you" vibes from my mom. Your answer has helped me though.

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  by A. Non Ymus on March 18th, 2007

• I hope so - just think objectively about the sermons, since you aren't in a position to say "no". Your family probably doesn't think you are old enough to know your mind on this topic.

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  by LynfromNM on March 18th, 2007

• don't let their comments get to you, Tammerz. my dad used to say the same thing to me. i got used to it and he eventually stoped saying anything about it because he knew that saying that would not sway my choice.

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  by daishotachi on March 18th, 2007

• Very good answer and advice LynfromNM! I too am an atheist but was raised by a religious family. I thought I believed because I was taught to but I never felt His presence. My cognitive immune system kicked in at around the age of 13 and for four years I was battling with what I do and do not believe. When I was 18 my mum, still being religious, wanted to go to midnight mass. My step-father certainly wouldn't have gone because he too is atheist, so my mum asked me if I would go with her just for company. she knew perfectly well my disbelief but I went because she wanted someone she knew with her. I dsilkied it immensely but at the end of the day I went not for my sake but for my mum's.

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  by Farino on September 27th, 2007

• During this stage in your life where you are still under the umbrella of your family and disbelieve is can be daunting. Just remember that your beliefs are your beliefs and stand by your convictions. If you wish to go to church for your family's sake then go. If you do not wish to go then don't. If you get bad vibes from your mum then ignore them, your mum should be more understanding that your beliefs are your beliefs and not her beliefs.

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  by Farino on September 27th, 2007

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• boredom?
  not hardly.

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  by live.laugh.love on September 30th, 2007

• live.laugh.love has a point, though unfortunately not in the same sense that s/he is probably thinking of.
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  Look for a book called "Even The Angels Laugh Sometimes." Its a collection of stories about hilarious things that happen in Christian Churches of all denominations.
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  From the organist who tries desperately to make two old ladies stop talking during the processional, only to cut off the music entirely when its clear they're resorting to shouting...
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  ...to the minister who decides to demonstrate "the fires of hell" indoors using a metal tub filled an inch deep with gasoline...
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  ...to the choir singer who sneaks out of the choir to retrieve a bag of chips from his car, then crawls back into the church through the wrong door...
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  ...the Christian Mass is humor waiting to happen.
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  Which is only reasonable to assume, since they are trying desperately to maintain strict order. What can go wrong, will, and hilarity will ensue...

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

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• True. Either way, keep your family close to you. They are important people.

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  by Nitroduck on March 18th, 2007

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• ... but it would be lot more boring than WWE-wrestling or an Opera!

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  by ScienceSwamy on August 21st, 2009

• ScienceSwamy, you haven't been to enough Masses if you think its all boring, and at the very least you've only been to Masses where young children weren't present....

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

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• Doesn't sound like they're bribing him to think differently, just bribing him to put his body in a location different from the place he usually chooses on Sunday morning.
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  Your location on this planet rarely changes how you think about anything.

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

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• Not allowed to dress like a freak :-(. LOL, but I've tried. My mom doesn't care, and she's not exactly a devout Christian either, but I think she wants to keep up appearances by going with her friend (and making me tag along to make her look good). I'll think about some of the things you suggested. Plus, I always wondered if singing in church was bad, but since I know now that I wouldn't be the only one doing it, I feel better. Thanks.

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  by A. Non Ymus on March 31st, 2007

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• Say what you want. If you don't believe in the church than it's no different than going to a class in school that you don't agree with. It's not hypocritical.

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  by noletters on March 22nd, 2007

• I gave you points back because, frankly, I've done the same thing.

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  by Sidhedarkness on March 22nd, 2007

• Thanks! It didn't hurt too bad did it?

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  by noletters on March 22nd, 2007

• Nah. I took along a copy of "The Witches Bible" to make it fun.

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  by Sidhedarkness on March 22nd, 2007

• That's Great!

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  by noletters on March 22nd, 2007

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• he is an atheist. Technically he does not have religious beliefs. he just has beliefs.

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  by Someguy on March 22nd, 2007

• Lol, I'm female, but thanks. Yeah, I do have beliefs, and they might be based on religious ideals (because I think at the root of things, they were meant to be good), but atheism is not religion, it's the absence of one. Thanks, FATASS1234 for the answer, and Someguy for the comment to it.

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  by A. Non Ymus on March 23rd, 2007

• Personally if bribes are involved I'd be willing to forgo the usual arguments and just take the bribes. After all, you can cut out the pages of a Bible and sneak in a good book hidden inside the covers of the mangled Bible: who is going to say you can't read a "Bible" in church?

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

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• Great! You can come over to India for a puja sometime.

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  by AntigoneRising on September 27th, 2007

• There's no such thing as an "agnostic". Its an adjective, not a noun. There are agnostic theists (theists who doubt but are biased in favor of theism) and agnostic atheists (atheists who doubt but are biased in favor of atheism), as well as theists and atheists.
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  Agnosticism is a journey, not a destination, and the instant you declare something to be 100% unknowable, you have made a statement of faith and have ended the journey and your ability to call yourself "no-knowledge" ("a-gnostic").
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  Huxley coined the term, and it has been erroneously taken as a "middle point" when it was never a middle point, only somewhere inbetween "God Exists" and "God Does Not Exist" with an existing bias in either direction.

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

• Its a lot easier to be an "agnostic" if you don't understand what the word means, in much the same way and for much the same reasons that it is much easier to be a "neurosurgeon" or an "accountant" if you don't understand what those words mean.
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  Heck, Creationists have been finding it easy to be "scientists" for CENTURIES because they don't really understand what the term means.

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

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• some room for development here.

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  by ScienceSwamy on August 21st, 2009

• The fact that bribery is involved sorta invalidates the "coward" argument. Doing something for a paycheck isn't the same as doing something for free. The former is done by nearly everyone in the world every day and often conflicting with their own beliefs, but the latter takes a true believer.

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

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• Interesting point of view, got me thinking. Thanks for the answer.

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  by A. Non Ymus on March 31st, 2007

• G.K. Chesterton is almost right: if there was no concept of God, there would be no atheists. Theists can exist without a God, they just believe in imaginary things (as is the current state of affairs).

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

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• by that measure, wouldn't it also be hypocritical
  for the Muslim-prayer-call-noise
  to passively falling on an atheist's ears?

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  by ScienceSwamy on August 21st, 2009

• To offer a bribe in order to coerce another into an action which is against that persons beliefs is vastly different to merely offering an opportunity to do or experience something.
  
  To do something against your will and beliefs as a result of a bribe is clearly not being true to oneself.
  
  If a dog barks at a passing stranger it is not being hypocritical because you can also hear it from a distance...
  
  You can still choose to run away, or not, even though it was not directed at you. There is no coercion or bribe involved and the dog is not being hypocritical.

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  by bradleybell on August 21st, 2009

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• c'mon! atheism is not as shaky as a 'faith'!

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  by ScienceSwamy on August 21st, 2009

• i'm agnostic. partially due to the fact that it is rather impossible to say that "God" does exist (as in 100% sure) while at the same time it is also impossible to say that "God" doesn't exist. What I mean by "impossible to say" is in terms of proof.

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  by daishotachi on August 21st, 2009

• So you are 100% certain that God is unknowable?
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  Sounds like you have certain knowledge there, making you gnostic ("has knowledge"), not "a-gnostic" ("no-knowledge").
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  Agnosticism is a journey in a direction, not a middle position. There can be agnostic theists and agnostic atheists, but no one can declare that they are an "agnostic" because "something is unknowable", because the knowledge that something is unknowable is a destination in and of itself and thus means you aren't agnostic anymore.
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  The way most people erroneously use the term "agnostic" these days is "I just don't want to argue about religion", an interesting idea but not itself a position on religion. Either God Exists or God Does Not Exist, and a wide disagreement inbetween, but there is no middle point where either option is equally valid, because declaring a middle point means declaring ultimate knowledge ("something is 100% unknowable") as you vainly claim you have "no-knowledge".

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  by eternal0void on August 30th, 2009

• i was using the 100% term to sum it up. i see the idea of a deity ("god" being the common title, not name, of said deity) and think that, through logic, there is no actual way to prove or disprove its existence. to try and prove it, people will use their "sacred texts", which I can not view as a viable source of information due to its nature. there is no way to fully disprove its existence either, due to the fact that it could have created all other forms of creation and had them fulfill their course. there are a few other things out there that are currently, and for all matter of the argument, impossible to prove or disprove. that is my current status on the whole idea of god. now please tell me, where do i fit in that categorization?

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  by daishotachi on August 30th, 2009

• If you believe something is completely unknowable, then you have an absolute truth. Possession of an absolute truth in a belief structure means you are no longer in a position to claim what is erroneously referred to in modern times as "agnosticism".
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  The fact that you are clearly willing to accept the possibility of the existence of a Deity, since you argue so eloquently that one could still exist, you are an agnostic theist. Again, note that agnostic is not a noun, but an adjective: you doubt, but are biased in favor of theism.
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  Strictly speaking it is rather hard to be an agnostic atheist, because any doubt about atheism is weak belief in theism, which moves you all the way over into agnostic theism once again.
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  Of course, "I don't know" is actually a rational reason for not believing. After all, "I know God exists" is a positive claim which requires support. Not believing that God exists or not knowing are not positive claims and thus do not require support.

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  by eternal0void on August 31st, 2009

• For example, is George W. Bush a space lizard?
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  There is no middle ground on the question of whether or not you believe that George Bush is a space lizard, or whether you believe that gods exist. Either you believe these ideas, or you don’t believe them. And atheism is about whether or not you believe that gods exist. ‘I don’t know’ is not a middle ground between believing and not believing; it is one possible rational reason for not believing.
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  I cannot know for certain whether any of the above ideas are true or untrue. But, on a scale of likelihood, the idea that gods exist is the least likely of them, because it is most inconsistent with the laws of nature as I understand them.
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  If I was to consider myself agnostic about whether or not gods exist, I would have to consider myself to be agnostic about almost everything that I believe or do not believe. And that would make it very hard to get anything done at all (are viruses alive? should I be clubbing their child processes?).

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  by eternal0void on August 31st, 2009

• Ironically, there's a moral reason for being an atheist as well. Belief in gods frequently causes people to do bad things to other human beings. In many ways this is the practical reason for being an atheist.
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  Rational thinking makes the following more likely: Enquiry: an ongoing unbiased quest for knowledge and truth. Empathy: adult ethics, based on relating to other living beings. Equality: a secular society that protects everybody’s rights.
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  Irrational dogma makes the following more likely: Creeds: accepting, as truth, imaginary answers to big questions. Commands: childish ethics, based on orders, desire and fear. Control: unjust laws that are influenced by religious dogma.
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  Obviously our own biology can still be manipulated unethically, but theists seem much more willing to accept this unethical manipulation (even accepting it as "the right thing to do"), than atheists.

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  by eternal0void on August 31st, 2009

• i'm not really in favor of theism nor atheism. i see things through logic and cause and effect. since there is no clear way to prove that one or more gods do exist, i'm not a theist. since there's also no clear way to prove that there isn't a god, i'm not an atheist. i see myself in a middle ground that is unconvinced by either side. (although i do kinda hate organized religion due to the whole hypocrisy and such) i prefer to follow my own path, but, to shorten my answer for conversation, i use the term agnostic rather than go into a long philosophical discussion on my views. people tend not to follow up with the question, "agnostic atheist or agnostic theist?" Also, i see it as kinda silly to not have a middle ground. things aren't always that black and white.

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  by daishotachi on August 31st, 2009

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• I see your point, and in part I agree. I know I need to take orders from my parents. This wasn't an order, this was a bribe though, to make my mother look good, and nothing more. I know I should try to support her, but it rankles me that she can't make herself look good, she needs to force somebody else (even her child) to do something she knows goes directly against their beliefs.
  Oh, and I have quit my job because me boss asked me to do something I didn't want to do, and I would do it again, if it went against my beliefs. Being asked to stay a couple hours late, and being asked to pray are two different matters. :-)

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  by A. Non Ymus on March 31st, 2007

• They are two different matters, but my point was that by obeying and respecting our parents, it is a prelude for our adult working life. If you quit every job because they ask you to work a couple extra hours-you are going to go through a lot of jobs. With rare exceptions, we all have a boss who tells us what to do and when to do it, not much different from our parents-except we get paid better from the boss. <:))))<><

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  by sleeppro on April 3rd, 2007

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