by A on September 2nd, 2009

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Have you ever met a guy who calls himself a "nice guy" and complains that "nice guys finish last" who you don't actually find nice at all? Please explain!

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Answers. 13 helpful answers below.

by Wombat99 on April 7th, 2010

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Interestingly, all of the legitimately nice guys I know don't label themselves like that. And every single guy I have EVER met who identified as a "nice guy" has been a miserable jerk.

The rant Old School posted is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Don't blame the girls. You want to actually date women? Learn that "nice" does not mean acting like a pathetic, sycophantic milquetoast. You like a girl? Man the fuck up and ask her out. Don't just follow her around and hope she'll notice how "nice" you are. See, when women say they want a nice guy, what they mean is they want a confident, fun, flirtatious guy who will treat them like a human being and respect their feelings while still holding on to his own identity and pride. They do NOT mean that they want an obsequious pet who is too timid to take any kind of action to get what he wants, and doesn't mind doing little doggy tricks to get your attention. That's not nice, it's degrading. When you make it obvious that you don't respect yourself, how can you expect any girl to respect you?

And of course, those are the guys who grow up to be bitter, miserable and alone because they never figure out how to be genuinely nice instead of desperate and annoying.
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by Prunesquallor on September 2nd, 2009

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If somebody calls himself a 'nice guy' you know he is not.
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- I've learned that. :)
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
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by Old School on September 2nd, 2009
Perhaps you met one in the chrysalis stage between 'nice guy' and 'arrogant jerk'...;-D...

I'll defer to an old "Rant" on Craigslist to expand upon this concept....;-D....(Note: explicit language in the original changed to 'family-friendly')

What happened to all the nice guys?

The answer is simple: you did.

See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were boinking treated you.

At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were "just friends." Besides, he totally wasn't your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn't know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.

Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you weren't dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren't the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you're single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, "What happened to all the nice guys?"

Well, once again, you did.

You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive "just-a-" friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he'd have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of a jerk than he ever wanted to be.

Fact is, now, he's probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I'm sorry that it took the complete absence of "nice guys" in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.

So, if you're looking for a nice guy, here's what you do:

1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your rear end.
3.) Take a look at what's right in front of you and grab ahold of it.

I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don't really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.

If you were five years younger.

So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you've screwed yourself over. You're getting older, after all. It's time to excise the horse pucky and deal with reality. You didn't want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn't bleeping want you, now.

Sincerely,

A Recovering Nice Guy
Comments
- I think it would of helped the relationship if she fancied him !
  
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  by Sandy - Sand on September 2nd, 2009
- @adder - The point is it is hypocritical of women to complain that "there are no nice guys to date" when they make clear by their actions that a 'nice guy' is NOT what they 'fancy'.
  .
  I had a similar conversation once with a woman who posted a Craigslist personal ad. She specified that any man she was going to date had to be 6'2" or taller (eliminates 19 out of 20 men right there), had to possess a graduate degree or similar, and had to meet whole list of other requirements (non-smoker, etc.).
  .
  I did a rough calculation that, out of 1.5 million men in Orange County, CA (her geographic limit), approximately 30 were 'dating material' by her lights.
  .
  I pointed this out to her and her reply was "Well, I like what I like...".
  .
  That's fine. Just don't go around complaining that "there are no decent men to date" when it's your ridiculous standards that push 99.999% of all men outside of your definition of 'decent'....;-D...
  
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  by Old School on September 2nd, 2009
- @OS- I actually never said anything in my question about there being no nice guys left to date. I've actually met a huge number of nice guys in my life. There's just a difference between a "genuine nice guy" and a "nice guy". We've been through this before on another answer, so there's no need to go through it again. I wanted to post this comment here anyway, though. One thing that really bothered me, though, is that I was actually DATING a guy who claimed to be someone who treats women with respect, and he told me no one gives guys like him a chance. That hurt. It's like... "EXCUSE ME? I'm your girlfriend... Do I NOT count?" It actually still hurts to THIS DAY, even though it was awhile ago.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- Thanks AnonymousGirl, thats helped me a little to understand this 'nice guy' problem. Could you give me a link to the question that you referred to ? Thanks.
  
  Report
  
  by Sandy - Sand on September 2nd, 2009
- @AG - Wow...and I thought I said the All-Time Dumbest Thing Any Boyfriend Has Said To A Girlfriend....;-D...
  .
  I'm sorry that you had to deal with his putz-dom....
  
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  by Old School on September 2nd, 2009
- @adder- I was actually referring to another answer on here. http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/7625439
  
  @OS- It's alright. It's been more than a month since he broke up with me.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
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by somewhere Pll loves her dawgy on September 2nd, 2009
A great piece on the 'Nice Guy Syndrome'

http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html
Comments
- the author of that piece is a genius!!! +2
  
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  by someone0175 on September 2nd, 2009
- I agree with someone0175. Thanks for sharing that link.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
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by RosieGHM Jetpacker on September 2nd, 2009
I think seeing yourself as you really are is difficult if not impossible. We like to put ourselves in the best light. It is always a subjective assessment..we cannot be objective about ourselves. That is how he sees himself. Happy Wednesday! :) ((hugs))
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by Sandy - Sand on September 2nd, 2009
Maybe people have been telling him he's a nice guy because he isn't !
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by Anonymous T on September 2nd, 2009
A widespread phenomenon.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/e/eb/SPniceguys.gif
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/6/60/Xkcdfriends.png
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/af/Stop_being_a_google.PNG
Comments
- Those comics are SO true! This is why I don't like "NICE GUYS". EXACTLY WHY! Thanks for putting these comics out in the open where they F**KIN' BELONG! They aren't "NICE". They use friendship to try to get closer to you, trash the people you actually CHOOSE to date, and so on. If anything, they're emotional manipulators who just AREN'T successful with the ladies and find reasons to blame the girl and the guys she ends up liking instead of looking at the mirror at THEMSELVES.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- Of course, there's the other side of this coin....;-D...
  .
  http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/but_if_we_started_dating_it
  
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  by Old School on September 2nd, 2009
- Old School, You mean this side? :)
  http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/f0/Friendzonemotivational.jpg
  http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/a2/Friend_zone.jpg
  
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  by Anonymous T on September 2nd, 2009
- @AG - Yeah, nice guys are so awful...;-D...
  .
  "..use friendship to try to get closer to you" - Oh gosh, how terrible. You mean they might like you as a person in addition to being attracted to you. The horror! The horror!
  .
  "...trash people you choose to date" - Oh, you mean they point out when a guy is just using you (and probably several other women) for sex?. How rude of them!
  .
  "...they're emotional manipulators" - And this manipulation brings them WHAT exactly? Help me out here....
  .
  "...just aren't successful with the ladies" - Of course they aren't. Millions of them wouldn't spend money on people who teach them to be jerks if they were
  .
  http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2007/08/06/mystery_qa/index.html
  .
  "...looking at the mirror at themselves" - And what, exactly, should they be looking for? A magic button that will instantly make them taller, better looking, and higher social status?
  .
  I'm not sure I understand your complaint here....;-D...
  
  Report
  
  by Old School on September 2nd, 2009
- @Old School- LOL! You're funny. I actually like a really nice guy right now. He's genuinely nice. There's a huge difference. :) I'm gonna catch up on your links now.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- @AG - I'm glad I gave you a laugh...and I'm glad that you identified what the real problem is.
  .
  Your problem is not with nice guys. Your problem is with guys who think they are nice, but they are not.
  .
  To be somewhat fair to the faux-nice guys, they've probably been told a zillion times by women "You're a nice guy, but....". That is a lie (gee, men and women lying to each other. I'm shocked...SHOCKED!...;-D...)
  .
  If women instead said "I'm sorry. I'm just not attracted to you..and don't ask me to explain why because it would be a lie or a cruel insult"....
  .
  http://www.nerve.com/screeningroom/books/thestorytellingproblem/
  .
  ...perhaps guys would not make the erroneous correlation about women not being attracted to nice guys (they often are not, but 'nice guy' is correlative symptom, not the cause).
  .
  But, asking for this much self-awareness and honesty out of people is a tall order....;-D..
  .
  Good luck with your 'nice guy'...:-D..
  
  Report
  
  by Old School on September 2nd, 2009
- @Old School- Well, the first article you linked me is amusing. I actually like my best guy friend and he likes me back. It just has to be made official. I've had my fair share of self-proclaimed nice guys who have asked me out, though, and they are annoying. I don't even consider them "friends". They just talk to me, no matter how much of a "bitch" I am to them. There's one I have even straight up told to "Give up" and he won't. Yes, I realize that I could just stop answering them, but meh. I happen to believe that the best relationships come from genuine friendships. Keyword: genuine. If the guy is a genuine nice guy, that's an absolute bonus. This is what I have with my best guy friend now. We can talk to each other about anything and everything. I have a lot of respect for him and he has a lot of respect for me as well. He's a REAL "Nice Guy". Of course, I'm ready for those self-proclaimed "Nice Guys" to jump at any 'faults' they think he might have... but, really, that just shows me that they think I'm stupid if they do that... some respect there.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- @Old School
  They're fools if, they're paying
  for it. You can find the seduction
  stuff for free all over the web.
  .
  @AnonymousGirl
  A "nice guy" needs years to
  understand He's not nice...
  or sometimes He might die
  without knowing it.
  But girls also take assholes
  for "nice nice guys".
  Nobody's perfect here.
  .
  @all
  The most important thing is
  to take responsibility for
  Yourself. If something is
  wrong, fix it and don't
  blame it on the guy/girl.
  Usually whatever happens,
  You're at fault if You're
  old enough to think for
  Yourself. And nobody has
  the obligation to like You.
  
  Report
  
  by Anonymous T on September 2nd, 2009
- @Old School- Wow, you've said a lot of stuff. This might be hard to have a conversation with you here since our conversation is all over the place, but I can try. I agree that the line "You're a nice guy, but..." is not a good line to use on a guy. I am honest with these guys. In fact, one of the guys even told me that the REASON he keeps chasing me is BECAUSE I am honest. :( He can't just accept "I'm not attracted to you." "I wouldn't date you." "I'm not interested in you and I can never see myself being interested in you." "I don't actually think you're that nice." "You're too desperate." etc. I've used so many lines on him (that I actually BELIEVE, mind you), and he keeps trying, even when I block and delete him off everything. He finds a new way to contact me. Why can't he just respect my decision and leave me alone? Why does he keep chasing me when I don't want him and have made myself VERY clear? He seems convinced that he'll change my opinion someday...by "being my friend".
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- @Old School- This may be long, but yeah... here goes.
  -
  "Yeah, nice guys are so awful...;-D..."
  Oh, nice guys aren't bad. It's the "nice guys" that I don't like. I put quotes there for a reason, y'know. ;)
  -
  "Oh gosh, how terrible. You mean they might like you as a person in addition to being attracted to you. The horror! The horror!"
  Eh. Those guys re okay. It's the ones who use friendship to get closer to you, but don't actually WANT to be your friend. Y'know, ... the hidden agenda thing. They're not really friends. They're nice because they want to get something in return, not because they actually WANT to be nice. Real nice people are nice because they want to be and don't expect anything in return.
  -
  "Oh, you mean they point out when a guy is just using you (and probably several other women) for sex?. How rude of them!"
  Nope. I mean the type of guy who trashes the boyfriend of the girl he likes just because the girl likes her boyfriend and not him. The guy could be the sweetest guy
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- on the planet, and he'd still find faults with him...
  -
  "And this manipulation brings them WHAT exactly? Help me out here...."
  Well,... not what they want? You can still be a manipulator and not get what you want, ...SO LONG as the person you're trying to manipulate can see right through it...and/or doesn't want anything to do with you in the first place.
  -
  "Of course they aren't. Millions of them wouldn't spend money on people who teach them to be jerks if they were."
  LOL! You do realize that that just proves my original point, right? They aren't "nice". They were only ever "nice" in the hopes of getting girls. Then, when their tactics weren't working, they decided to spend money on people who teach them to be jerks. Yep. They're "nice", alright...
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- I'm gonna finish reading your link here after.
  -
  "And what, exactly, should they be looking for? A magic button that will instantly make them taller, better looking, and higher social status?"
  Nope. They need to get off their self-righteous high horse and realize they aren't as "nice" as they would like to think they are. Yes, I know I'm a bitch, but at least I'm an honest one!
  -
  "I'm not sure I understand your complaint here....;-D..."
  Well, hopefully you do now. I think you do, though, based on another comment you posted here. :)
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- @AG - If a guy won't take a clear explicit "No" for an answer (and I was guilty of this once), that's a bigger issue than the whole nice guy thing. That's borderline stalker behavior.
  .
  Perhaps you should ask your local policeman to pay him a friendly visit, just as a reminder to behave (I don't know. Would a police department actually do this?).
  .
  As for being 'attracted to honesty', I can understand this. There are *plenty* of women who don't say what they really think, hoping that the man will 'get the hint'. Most often, we don't.
  .
  Unfortunately, I think your 'friend' (cough! cough!) has watched too many romantic comedies where the guy 'wears down' the woman into admitting that she loves him.
  .
  If you'd like further discussion on this, my e-mail in in my profile.
  .
  Good luck with your genuine friend, and I hope your faux-friend gives up and goes away soon.
  
  Report
  
  by Old School on September 2nd, 2009
- @OS- "I'm glad I gave you a laugh...and I'm glad that you identified what the real problem is."
  Well, of course. :D It's not fun being misunderstood.
  .
  "Your problem is not with nice guys. Your problem is with guys who think they are nice, but they are not."
  Yes. :)
  .
  "To be somewhat fair to the faux-nice guys, they've probably been told a zillion times by women "You're a nice guy, but....". That is a lie (gee, men and women lying to each other. I'm shocked...SHOCKED!...;-D...)"
  Yeah, that line is not the wisest line to use on a guy.
  .
  "If women instead said "I'm sorry. I'm just not attracted to you..and don't ask me to explain why because it would be a lie or a cruel insult"...."
  What if I am honest about how I feel, though?
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- .
  Again, I'll read your link after and get back to you on it.
  .
  "...perhaps guys would not make the erroneous correlation about women not being attracted to nice guys (they often are not, but 'nice guy' is correlative symptom, not the cause)."
  Hmm. Actually, I've met quite a few nice guys who have girlfriends/wives....
  .
  "But, asking for this much self-awareness and honesty out of people is a tall order....;-D.."
  It doesn't mean it's out of place.
  .
  "Good luck with your 'nice guy'...:-D.."
  Thank you. =) He's actually helped me through a LOT, and I'd like to think I've helped him through a lot as well. He was the main person who was there for me when my last boyfriend cheated on me. He respected that I was in a relationship the whole time and didn't try to get with me at all then. He's a really great friend, and he actually TALKS TO ME. He actually treats me like a person, highly respects me, and thinks I'm smart. It's not just a one way thing, either. It's nice to have someone in my
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- life who truly appreciates me who I truly appreciate back... it's an incredible feeling. I'm happy. :D
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- @AT- "A "nice guy" needs years to
  understand He's not nice...
  or sometimes He might die
  without knowing it.
  But girls also take assholes
  for "nice nice guys".
  Nobody's perfect here."
  You're right. No one is perfect...at all, not even me. :)
  
  Report
  
  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- @AnonymousT - I take some issue with your last comment "@all"
  .
  We can only influence the things we can influence. We can't necessarily 'fix the problem'.
  .
  How tall we become is determined by genetics and what our parents feed us. Unless we're willing to take HGH, that won't change.
  .
  How physically attractive we are is also largely based on genetics. Sure, we can exercise, we can pay for expensive clothes/grooming products. We can even have plastic surgery. But most of us don't have the time/money/motivation to waste on these things.
  .
  Even how 'confident' (translation: high social status) we appear to others is largely not our doing. It's too complex to explain here, but the correlation between ones' own self-confidence and how confident one appears to others is very weak.
  .
  Last, we may be old enough to 'think for ourselves', but our brains have been bombarded with all sorts of messages, some helpful, some not. We are not always capable of resisting this programming.
  
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  by Old School on September 2nd, 2009
- @OS-"If a guy won't take a clear explicit "No" for an answer (and I was guilty of this once), that's a bigger issue than the whole nice guy thing. That's borderline stalker behavior."
  Yep. You're right. :)
  .
  "Perhaps you should ask your local policeman to pay him a friendly visit, just as a reminder to behave (I don't know. Would a police department actually do this?)."
  They might. Even if they wouldn't, it's a good idea.
  .
  "As for being 'attracted to honesty', I can understand this. There are *plenty* of women who don't say what they really think, hoping that the man will 'get the hint'. Most often, we don't."
  Ugh! It is because of women like this that there are guys who read way too much into what I'm saying. :( They definitely ruin it for people who are straight up. I may not be the most honest person in the world, but it is quite annoying to be treated like a liar when you're telling the truth just because other people have lied.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- .
  "Unfortunately, I think your 'friend' (cough! cough!) has watched too many romantic comedies where the guy 'wears down' the woman into admitting that she loves him."
  Perhaps.
  .
  "If you'd like further discussion on this, my e-mail in in my profile."
  Alrighty. I'll probably do that for the articles. Look for "AnonymousGirl From AB" as the name I use. :)
  .
  "Good luck with your genuine friend, and I hope your faux-friend gives up and goes away soon."
  Thank you, again. :) Your words are GREATLY appreciated! :D
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- @Old school
  I know all this stuff.
  You can "fix" everything
  You need to fix. It may
  take years, but it's still
  possible. Unless You're
  terribly disfigured or
  Your brain is physically
  damaged.
  
  Report
  
  by Anonymous T on September 3rd, 2009
- @AnonymousT - We will have to agree to disagree at this point. Our respective brains are generating different models of reality...;-D..
  
  Report
  
  by Old School on September 3rd, 2009
- You aim to fail.
  Bye.
  
  Report
  
  by Anonymous T on September 3rd, 2009
- @AnonT - "The unaimed arrow never misses"
  .
  Nor does it get Fooled by Randomness...:-D...
  .
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fooled_by_Randomness
  
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  by Old School on September 3rd, 2009
- Nerd.
  
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  by Anonymous T on September 3rd, 2009
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by someone0175 on September 2nd, 2009
It's very simple really. If you have to tell someone else you are something, then you are not. So, if you actually have to say "I'm a nice guy." you're not.
Comments
- EXACTLY! Finally, a guy admits this! THANK YOU!
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- lol, not sure if I should take that as a compliment or an insult, but you are welcome!
  
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  by someone0175 on September 2nd, 2009
- Compliment.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
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by killdrphil - reasonable for a madman on September 3rd, 2009
Nice guys who never say they are a nice guy and who genuinely care for others, are nice guys. Guys who proclaim all the time that they are nice and try to make that their whole identity, and, who also say things like "Nice guys finish last" are just pussies.
Comments
- Yes, KDP! Way to say it like it is. It's actually a HUGE RED flag to me when a guy tells me that "Nice guys finish last." It automatically puts him into my "DO NOT DATE" list in my head. There may be exceptions, but those exceptions are VERY, VERY rare.
  
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  by A on September 3rd, 2009
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by Pecks bad boy on September 2nd, 2009
I know one. I think him more as "Whining guy" then nice guy. He thinks everyone is out to get him. +5
Comments
- Oh man. I totally know what you mean about the "whining" thing. I know this guy who thinks he's a really nice guy, but he whines constantly as well.
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- lol. I hear you.
  
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  by Pecks bad boy on September 2nd, 2009
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by -Icy- on September 2nd, 2009
he thought he was a nice guy but he was filled with so much bitterness and hate he was not nice at all. +5
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by Mountain Momma on September 2nd, 2009
I actually dated a guy once who said this about himself and he was an alcoholic who had to drink every day and was sometimes violent.
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by Anonymous T on September 2nd, 2009
... (missed the text field... again... duh :|)
Comments
- Did you mean to post this as a comment?
  
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  by A on September 2nd, 2009
- Yeah. I'm starting to get
  pissed. It happens too often
  recently. :)
  .
  Re-posting.
  
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  by Anonymous T on September 3rd, 2009
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Question

Have you ever met a guy who calls himself a "nice guy" and complains that "nice guys finish last" who you don't actually find nice at all? Please explain!

Answers. 13 helpful answers below.

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How is it that guys who are total jerks manage to find several women to cheat with, yet if you're a nice guy women want nothing to do with you? This perplexes me continually.

If a nice guy Stays Nice and doesn't even conform to the "cooler" (sic!) and "more successful" (sic!) way by being an asshole to get women, will the nice guy ever get women? There are Nice Guys that stay that way. Do they remain single because of THAT?

So many women say that they want to find a "nice" guy/man.All the nice guys/men in the world,why is it so hard for some women to find you?I found one and I'm very happy, but it took a long time. Can the nice guys/men out there let women know where u are!

Ladies, do nice guys finish last?

If you met a really nice guy and found out he had ED do you think you could work with a lack of intercourse.

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Have you ever met a guy who calls himself a "nice guy" and complains that "nice guys finish last" who you don't actually find nice at all? Please explain!

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