The Codex Sinaiticus, the world's oldest known Bible manuscript, has gone online today. This will be a great boon to scholars. But what will those who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible as we know it today make of its differences?

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• Thanks very much for your comments! +

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  by xhepera on July 6th, 2009

• Thank you, very helpful.

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  by cancon on August 9th, 2009

• Thank you for your feedback.

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  by Texasescimo on August 9th, 2009

• You provide some very useful links Texas. Keep up the good work!

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  by no_one_special on August 13th, 2009

• Yes, Texasescimo. Thanks very much!

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  by xhepera on August 13th, 2009

• Thank you both. Have ya'll ever seen them snake handling Churches on TV? (Mark 16:17,18)

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  by Texasescimo on August 14th, 2009

• I've seen a documentary about them and read about them from time to time. Don't some of them drink poison as well?

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  by xhepera on August 14th, 2009

• I have never seen that. But I am sure that some have tried.

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  by no_one_special on August 14th, 2009

• By that also being added into that spurious verse, I would not be surprised, especially for those that believe that the translators of the King James or the Textus Receptus were inspired, as mentioned in inwit's comment. I saw them on documentaries also, but don't remember anything about drinking poison.

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  by Texasescimo on August 14th, 2009

• Kudos TexEsc.

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  by PonderAppreciatively on August 18th, 2009

• Tex: Who do you translate for? Are you independant or do you work for a particular publishing house or???

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  by Abbyguy on October 6th, 2009

• Hello again Abbyguy. May I ask why you question Tex in such a manner? What are you seeking? Did you agree with what Tex wrote or did you want to discuss something? How have you found the NWTs accuracy since last we talked? Remember? http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/5579512

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  by no_one_special on October 6th, 2009

• Hi, I understand your question very clearly. Firstly, I want to know where his biases lie, fair question don't you think?
  Secondly, I have more than enough evidence to support my argument but see that the info is falling on deaf ears so why should I continue the debate? I will never change my position and and it seems that you nor your counterparts will either so what's the point? Argue for arguments sake, I think not. One thing I have learned in my time around JW's is that they/you are very deeply indoctrinated and there is little hope of you seeing truth even if it hits you between the eyes.
  As a side note: regarding your post on the thread you have provided, the silence that you smugly insinuate is not because no-one can find answers to your questions, it is because the ones provided have fallen on deaf ears and scaled eyes. So again, why argue for arguments sake?

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  by Abbyguy on October 6th, 2009

• Let me ask you: why do you do it (argue)/ Is it to prove yourself worthy in Gods eyes or does it make you feel good, or do you "feel" superior? Just what is your motivation?

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  by Abbyguy on October 6th, 2009

• Abby, I am glad you are feeling better since you had to leave our last discussion do to health problems. I never said I translate. Translating would be like deciding if Sheol should be translated as Hell or Grave as many of the ones that you admire so much who are paid to translate seem to disagree on if it should be hell or grave. http://bible.cc/psalms/16-10.htm Also, the link posted by noonespecial is about translation. What I am posting here is changes and additions to later manuscripts such as 1John 5:7 known as the Johannine Comma and Mark 16:9-20 and a few other alterations that were not in older manuscripts. I know that some prefer to handle snakes to prove that they believe, but some others prefer to do a little research and find out that it was another late addition. Your post are all over AB talking against JW's and the NWT. Is your basis for that research that you have done, following what others have said, or are you translating for someone? Why do you argue so much?
  .
  What translation do you consider to be the best and what is that based on?

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  by Texasescimo on October 6th, 2009

• Quote, "Hi, I understand your question very clearly. Firstly, I want to know where his biases lie, fair question don't you think?"
   
  I rather let evidence lead me then a bias I may see in others.
   
  Quote, "Secondly, I have more than enough evidence to support my argument"
   
  Excellent! I am happy you have continued to search for answers. Why don't produce your evidence in this thread since in the other you had none. I am eager to see the new evidence.
   
  Quote, " Argue for arguments sake, I think not."
   
  Not at all Abby. Lets just let the evidence lead us where it may.
   
  Quote, "As a side note: regarding your post on the thread you have provided, the silence that you smugly insinuate is not because no-one can find answers to your questions,"
   
  Was I not fair? Did I not look at the links you provided? Did I not consider your arguments? What questions did you answer with evidence?

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  by no_one_special on October 6th, 2009

• Tex: Thanks for your kind consideration and words, I'm feeling better at this point, we'll see for how long this time.
  My mistake, I thought you were "a translator" for some publishing house or perhaps even the NWT, sorry, I mis-read.
  I agree that there are alot of people who do things to try and "prove" this and that, handling snakes is one of the more bizarre ones as I see it.
  No, I am not translating for anyone, I don't have the educational background for that so I have to rely on common knowledge and info from reliable sources.
  Over the years I have spent a lot of time and effort arguing/debating points of scripture and otherwise, but I find I am particularly compelled to debate all things JW, because of having such a close relationship with so many and having studied myself for quite a long time, years in fact. I consider the NASB the one to turn to for accuracy, although I often cross-ref with other versions to clarify certain points.

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  by Abbyguy on October 6th, 2009

• Quote, "Let me ask you: why do you do it (argue)/ Is it to prove yourself worthy in Gods eyes or does it make you feel good, or do you "feel" superior? Just what is your motivation?"
   
  Love for God. He allowed me to come into existence and bought us back with the blood of his son. He expect exclusive devotion and although I may the a sinner, I love my God and must try my best to please him.

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  by no_one_special on October 6th, 2009

• Noone: There you go with your attitude agian. It's really difficult to resond calmly when you are being such an arrogant jerk.
  No need to quote all the time, I can read you know.
  perhaps you would like to answer me and tell e what your motivations are and why you act the way you do?
  As I said: I am comfortable with the evidense I have, would posting it make you feel better in some way? Would yoiu feel like you have controlled me in some way by provoking me into doing sometig that you want and not what I want?
  Check your ego at the door buddy.

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  by Abbyguy on October 6th, 2009

• I see that you love God as much as I do, or should we argue that point as well?

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  by Abbyguy on October 6th, 2009

• I really do not understand why you feel I am being arrogant. I have not used Ad Hom or anything like that.
   
  Despite what you may think I never have meant anything harsh towards you. I have been truly rude to four people since I have been on AB.
   
  You have not been one of them. The first was around when I recently came on AB the last three were within a month if I remember. I have apologized to them and some accepted.
   
  I do not make it a habit to being rude. Perhaps my style is coming off wrong.
   
  Please tell me how I have offended you. The request is sincere I assure you.

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  by no_one_special on October 6th, 2009

• Think of how you feel when you answer a question. If you are agitated, it comes through, if you are angry, it comes through and if you are feeling superior, it too comes through. I know I see it in myself all the time when I answer question, sometimes I catch it most times I don't and end up feeling badly for the way I answered and unable to edit my answer(s).
  You are obviously passionate about your beliefs, as am I, and that passion can come through as noted above. So, please accept my apologies for my "tones" in the past and I will forgive you for yours, and so we can stay with what matters, how to please God and have hope for our salvation. Would you agree that those are the most important things in life, not forgetting the greatest commandment; treating your brother as yourself? ;)

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  by Abbyguy on October 6th, 2009

• Tex and Ponder you are welcome to critique me as well.
   
  You know, I had been wanting to ask Brucey and Hasn't Been what they thought of me since many, many times others feel I am being rude.
   
  It truly has become a concern. I even posted a question of "who is the most annoying on AB" to see what others thought and perhaps get some insight as to how i come off. Instead I got DR with only one response.

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  by no_one_special on October 6th, 2009

• Quote, " So, please accept my applogies for my "tones" in the past and I will forgive you for yours"
   
  Of course Abby. But what tones?
   
  You know there is a member who I won't mention by name. But this member is great at debating. I really dig the counters. However this person comes off like he/she is yelling at everyone. At times I feel like telling that person to relax and notice how he/she is coming off.
   
  But after reading post after post of this individual I see its more of the style than anything else that is being misinterpreted. I too had a similar style at one point and have switched it. But the problem persists.
   
  I am truly at a loss. I have looked at bruceys style and love it. He has a way of putting things and sounds so articulate. I don't have that gift. I just think, check for fallacies and type. Its very dry.
   
  I am passionate but its not like I am falling apart over here. I just look and if it is illogical, I merely counter. Thats it really.

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  by no_one_special on October 6th, 2009

• I want you to be brutal Abby. Please tell me what I am doing wrong. I am asking this as a favor not as a challenge. Tex you and Ponder as well. Help me communicate better.

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  by no_one_special on October 6th, 2009

• Noone: You are not doing anything wrong, you are just a passionate person. As I have said I have the same problem, for me it's all about how I feel when I answer a question and I suggest it may be yours as well. You communicate well all that is needed is calmness and clarity of thought before you respond, and don't hit "post answer" before you review what you say and the way you say it.
  I am working on this constantly and fail more often than not, but I believe the it is as they say a journey not a destination.
  Kudos for you humility, I'm sure God will help you in your.
  I think we are more similar than not, so perhaps we can learn from each other.

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  by Abbyguy on October 6th, 2009

• noonespecial,
  It's obvious that you feel strongly about what you're writing,...and that's a good thing.
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  My mind runs 'a mile a minute',...and if I'm not careful so does my mouth.
  : )
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  So, when speaking to others face to face I make a real effort to slow down my pace and provide plenty of pausing.
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  (In my personal opinion, the biggest difference between an experienced speaker and an inexperienced one, is the ability to slow down,...and use appropriate pausing.)
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  It allows those of us listening to relax,...and focus on what's being said.

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  by PonderAppreciatively on October 7th, 2009

• When composing a written response for AB,...I try to give the SENSE of pausing.
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  I use just a phrase or two,...
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  ,..and then abundant spacing. : )
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  I also make use of "dashes" and "dots of ellipses",...because I'd like the reader to go through the answer,...slowly.
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  by PonderAppreciatively on October 7th, 2009

• There's a comic whom I enjoy very much.
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  ,...and I would say that his GREATEST gift lies in his comedic 'timing'.
  He knows how to pause juuuuuuuuuuuuust long enough before his punch line.
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  I tried reading one of his books,...it was awful.
  I didn't enjoy it a bit,...because there was no pausing conveyed in the printed material.

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  by PonderAppreciatively on October 7th, 2009

• Aside from that,...
  I'll say that it's always a good idea to read over your comment before you post and check the "tone".
  That is,...the overall "feeling" that it conveys.
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  Is it hostile?,...sarcastic?,...arrogant?
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  I'm confident that we've all posted comments and then wished we could revise them later.
  (I know I have)
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  It may be helpful to use phrasing that accords honor to your reader,...
  (like "respectfully,...", "with respect",..."no offense intended,...")
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  ,...and be quick to apologize if you fear someone's dignity has been affronted.

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  by PonderAppreciatively on October 7th, 2009

• I once read a scripture to a gentleman,...
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  ,...and then asked, "would you like to read that from 'your bible'"?
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  Those were the words I used,..."your bible".
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  Wow,...
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  He said "MY bible? What do you mean,....MY bible?"
  He was really upset.
  He thought I was implying that he had his own version of the bible.
  (Which,...of course,...I had not meant to imply at all.)
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  I apologized profusely,...
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  Now, I say "would you like to read that from your personal copy of the bible?",...
  So far,...no one's mistaken my meaning.
  : )
  I enjoy your post's Noonespecial,...and I hope this was helpful.

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  by PonderAppreciatively on October 7th, 2009

• Abby, thank you for your response. To be honest I felt relief to hear your response. I was very worried and confused about how you are taking my comments. I think what Ponder has said hit the nail on the head. I need to pause more frequently and check my overall tone.
   
  I hope we can exchange thoughts again. I recognize your zeal and have watched some of your post and can see you love the Lord as well.
   
  Thank you and please forgive me for offending you.

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  by no_one_special on October 7th, 2009

• Ponder, this is not the only time you have helped me. I thank you so much. I will definitely book marks this thread and refer to it often.
   
  Perhaps it is difficult for you to see how much I appreciate your feed back but I assure you, you have earned a little spot on the heart of "no one special."
   
  Well I am no one special so maybe that not a big deal..LOL! :D

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  by no_one_special on October 7th, 2009

• Noone: Nothing to forgive, but if that is what you want, of course I do. Are we not commnded to so? Yes.
  Ponder: Great advice, I to will try incorprate what I can into my posts aswell, thanks. :-D

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  by Abbyguy on October 7th, 2009

• The NWT (New World Translation) has a few problems in it. Most notably while Jehovah Witnesses claim that Christ was not God in the flesh a few verses disprove that. Two that I know of:
  John 8:58 (New King James Version) NWT Version follows after.
  Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (Proof that Jesus was the one talking to Moses. He is the great "I AM")
  Revelation 1:18
  I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
  Revelation 1:17-19 (Only Christ was ever dead.)
  NWT (New World Translation) John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
  Revelation 1:17,18 And when I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet.
  And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des.

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  by laaayla on October 14th, 2009

• Hello laaayla.
   
  In John 8:57 the Jews are attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to have seen Abraham when he was not yet fifty years old. The context helps us to see that he was pointing to his pre-human existence like Proverbs *8:22,23,30; Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14 not the I am at Exodus 3:14. Remember context, context, context. :D
   
  As for Revelation 1:18 does it say anywhere he is the Almighty? No it does not. How do you arrive at your conclusion that this refers to the Almighty?
   
  Revelation 1:17,18 doesn't support they are the same either. Not in the NWT nor in anyone you are quoting from.

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  by no_one_special on October 19th, 2009

• Here is proof from the scriptures that Jesus is not God Almighty.
   
  John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"
   
  Notice he is going away to his God. So even after his death his calls the Father his God.
   
  1Corinthians 11:3 "But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God."
   
  Notice here, Jesus has already ascended to heaven. Paul is writing to the Corinthians so this is long after Jesus resurrection.

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  by no_one_special on October 19th, 2009

• Notice here Paul clarifies something for us at
  1 Corinthians 15:27,28,
  "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all."
   
  So it is clear from the scriptures that from before Jesus was not Almighty, nor while on earth nor immediately after his resurrection nor a while after his resurrection nor way, way, way after his resurrection.
   
  Thank you for you comment though. :D

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  by no_one_special on October 19th, 2009

• I never noticed the addition at Col 2:2 before.
  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col2:2&version=NIV;HCSB;NKJV;NLT;NASB
  
  Colossians 2:2 (KJV) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
  
  Notice how the KJV says: "..the mystery of God, and of the Father..". The Bible often talks about God and Jesus but I have never seen a verse before that talks about the Father as separate from God before.

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  by Texasescimo on August 15th, 2011

• Thats a new one to me as well. Here are the NASB and KJV
  
  Col 2:2 NASB
  that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth [fn]that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself,
  
  Col 2:2 KJV
  That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
  
  Kinda makes you wonder how hard they were trying to get Trinity proof texts in the bible.

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  by no_one_special on August 15th, 2011