Hobbes' was influenced, just as you and I are, by what were some in-themes of his own day. The ways that philosophers think and articulate their thoughts, in any era, including ours, are as much influenced by what other thinkers are saying as the way you and I dress is influenced by what others think is proper attire. (We do not want to draw attention to ourselves by wearing clothes that are not "in.") In Hobbes' time (likewise in Jean Jaques Rousseaus's time) one of the in-themes was preoccupation with what might be the "natural state of man" (mankind, actually). But this takes nothing away from Hobbes' contribution to the evolution of ideas. One of the most important contributions Hobbes made to all who would follow him lies in his recognition of what is "power." He went to great lengths to make his point that money is power, intelligence quotient is power, property is power, the ability to sway people's thinking is power, an elected position is power, even a knife in one's pocket is power. What other philosophers (and influencial non-philosophers) did with Hobbes' recognition of all the sources and kinds of power varies. Just as a knife in one's pocket does not determine whether we would use it to cut someone's throat, or to peel an apple, or to cut a noose from around the neck of an innocent accused..., power is not good or evil in and of itself. It is how each philosopher would turn it and for you and me how we would use it, in its many forms, to make the world a worse place or a better one. What a number of philosophers did, around the time that Hobbes lived and thought and wrote, was try to figure out what was natural for humans to think and do. We see strains of the same kind even in today's thinking. The book "Emotional Intelligence" goes into the current physiology of the human brain, and SPECULATES as to how, over thousands of years, our brains might have been shaped by survival of those capable of responding most quickly to predators and enemies. So, it is speculated that the brain became physiologically "wired" as it is to allow virtually instantaneous fight or flight, without resort to hesitation for reasoning out the best response. To wonder, and make educated guesses, about such things is conducive to further research and analysis. To draw conclusions about it however, and about oneself and about society, on basis of such speculation, is to close one's thinking, become entrenched, and stop looking for other answers. There has never been a "natural state" of man (humans). The history of mankind and society has never been in a steady state, but always has played out within a dynamic characterized by change and motion and variation -- even though, by hindsight, some discernable patterns can be discerned. Consequently, one way we might look upon the "natural state" of humanity, in Hobbes' day, or in our own, is to take all the many different conditions many humans have found themselves in, examine that in respect to the varieties of ways individuals and groups have acted differently even within similar circumstances, and then average it all out. (:>)

Rickster, I am not formally a student of professor of philosophy. I was introduced to the philosophers who most impacted today's most poignant political ideas as a student of political science. (Not just philosophers but, also, persons and scientific developments and incidents that influenced philosophical thinking from outside academic and intellectual circles, as well.) Since writing the tome above (:>) I have learned much more about Hobbes than I had been exposed to then and am more inclined to think of his contributions as valuable to the "flow" of ideas along more than one stream of thought (both supporting and contradicting some of his main tenets). One of the courses I have taken (not for credit) is Daniel Robinson's course , The Great Ideas of Philosophy, sold by The Teaching Company, from which I learned that each and every philosopher and school of philosophical thought has its own set of definitions and presumptions from which it logically (or otherwise) flows, which cannot be proved nor disproved by empirical means, but the presumptions seem right to some thinkers, and not others. Also, for every philosopher or school of philosophical thought there are "at least two," every bit as logical and reasonable which contradict or conflict with it. And, from these two realizations I have been led to a realization, for me at least, that the benefit of philosophy is NOT in providing pat answers to questions that cannot be answered empirically but in providing us increased sophistication and alternative approaches for examining our own experience and intuition, and finding our own individual rationales for why we are here, and what is right for us to do with and in our own lives. And, also, the more questions we ask and attempt to answer logically, the more aware of, and skilled in, are we to the task of examining things that CAN be empirically tested. Cross-disciplinary studies, even of such things as paleontological specimens are more qualitatively evaluated when the "team" includes a philosopher, as well as a biologist, a physicist, and more. And as NASA fetches data from outer space, we are faced with dilemmas about what questions to ask ourselves about what we learn, and how we might deem ourselves needing to think about our "invasion" of other planets and, some day, solar systems... if, indeed, we should. Hence, I see philosophy now not as some destination, which lies at the end of a cul de sac off the main thoroughfare of philosophical inquiry, but as a tool, or vehicle, as it were, wherewith to travel most effectively in our thinking. Physics, pure mathematics, chemistry, warfare, political science, law, the arts... all are tools that enrich our capacity to make sense of, and profit from, what we learn. Right now I am listening to a downloaded set of lectures (also from The Teaching Co.,) titled "Science Wars." This course is the most densely packed course on the flow of recurring themes and progressive changes in thinking in our time. It is so packed with history and ideas, and the links and streams of change in those ideas impacting today's life, our religious beliefs, our political convictions, economic ideas, technology... that I am in the fourth time listening and still gaining more insight with each repitition. Caution: This course could expand and alter your thinking on many subjects and issues, and change your thinking for life. Sorry. Did not mean to soapbox, but this is the best course I have taken in all my 73-so-far years. Life is wonderful when you're learning things you never even suspected were here in this life to learn. Makes me wish I had another lifetime to devote to learning. (:>) g