by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009

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I know Madonna has "borrowed" the Jewish faith and now she wants to be a "Gypsy" (link included). How many cultures, ethnicities and religions, total, has she done this with? To Jewish ABers, what do you think of her borrowing your faith?

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Answers. 8 helpful answers below.

by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
I just wanted to say that I am not happy about this from my end.

Quote from Madonna in that article: "I love the idea of traveling round and playing music and letting life unfold in a spontaneous way."

Dear Madonna:

You have NO clue what it is like to be a "Gypsy." Go learn about our culture, our past, what we have been through present and past. Go learn what it is REALLY like to be a Gypsy.

You did a gig with Gogol Bordello and you are touring with the Kolpakov Trio. That is a concert, not a life. If you want to learn what it is like to REALLY be a Gypsy, go live amongst us in Eastern Europe without your bodyguards, fame, or money. Or do it the easy way, one which you would physically survive (you would not survive long in EU), and come to America as a Gypsy... without your bodyguards, fame, or money. Try to get a job here as a Gypsy, grow a thick skin, and learning to fight would be a good idea.

You would hand back being a "Gypsy" so fast your head would spin. It is not "traveling round and playing music and letting life unfold in a spontaneous way."

After you had your *ss kicked a few times and faced discrimination, you would be happy to give it back.

If miraculously you became a Gypsy you also have our history behind you and there would be a good chance that you would look at archival Holocaust footage and wonder if you are looking at your actual family being tortured and murdered. That is a bit of a head trip.

I happen to like being Romani ("Gypsy") and I am used to everything I describe. I have a sneaky creepy feeling that if you were plunked into the middle of it, right now, you would run screaming.

You may have "causes" but they are not YOU. You are privileged and white and you go home to a privileged life. You are not stuck in it. You, Madonna, are not tough enough to face daily persecution of yourself. You need a sense of self to do it... you do not have one.
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- Yes, I can absolutely see where you would find this insulting. As it was when she borrowed the Jewish faith. But I generally find that people are able to see her and her shallow antics for what they are and put her into perspective as just another shallow entertainer looking to put meaning into their meaningless existence with whatever strikes their fancy at the moment. It's unfortunate that she doesn't see how her ill informed statements could be offensive to those that actually take their faith and heritage seriously.
  
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  by gtravels loves her life penguin on January 10th, 2009
- I was thinking about real Jewish people when I watched the video. I cannot remember what the sacred text was called that she had strapped to her arm but I know that it is NOT for non-Jewish people and it is for guys only. I cannot imagine that it is proper to strut it around half dressed while half dressed making a music video.
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  If I remember correctly she changed her name to reflect being "Jewish" and mixed Judaism with Catholicism. From what I know, that is a huge no-no.
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  I wish she would look a bit deeper than her intentions, be them flippant or worthy. I am certain that some of her actions are in good heart, however, she is stomping on cultures and faiths when she does it.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Like asking a fish to roller skate my friend;)
  
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  by gtravels loves her life penguin on January 10th, 2009
- Yep yep. :)
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  Killdrphill said that she realizes how shallow her career has been. I tend to concur.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Say, when she returned the Jewish faith, did she have it cleaned and give it some shots of penicillin?
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Chicken soup of course;)
  
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  by gtravels loves her life penguin on January 10th, 2009
- To put a humorous twist to this, I was reminded of Steve Martin's opening line in the movie "The Jerk":
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  "I was born a poor, black child."
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  I would hardly call her intentions, much less her announced reasons, as in any way flattering.
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  In my opinion, if she seriously wanted to convert, this is a personal and private matter that is nobody else's business and she should have treated it as such.
  
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  by The Chief on January 10th, 2009
- Good one! I had not thought of that and I admit that had me laughing out loud. *points your comment*
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  From what I understand of Judaism, indeed, this would have been a private thing and not one she announced to the media. From what I understand of Judaism announcing it to the media would actually cheapen the conversion.
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  I am expecting her to dig up some long lost Roma "ancestor." UGH.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Oh, Lord...I hope not!
  
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  by The Chief on January 10th, 2009
- It happens ALL the time... then they prance around like an uber-Gypsy. They out "Gypsy" us. Of course, they do not get it right. :P
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  Most of them, however, if they announce it to the world and face hell for it, suddenly un-Gypsify themselves. Or they stay on message boards and bug the crap out of the rest of us.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- I know one guy who said he was Gadje (not-Roma), flat out, but loved our culture and music. Then he thought he had a distant Roma ancestor but very distant and untraceable. It progressed. Last time I heard he has discovered direct lineage to THREE CLANS. Buuuuuuuuuut... only on message boards. He does not announce his new Gypsification in real life.
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  *head/desk*... repeat.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Heh!
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  I probably have some gypsum in me. Does that count?
  
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  by The Chief on January 10th, 2009
- No, 'fraid not. How did you get gypsum in you?
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Dust from working with drywall...I'm sure I've inhaled some along the way!
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  That's about as close as I can claim!
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  :):):):)
  
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  by The Chief on January 10th, 2009
- Well it is as good a claim as these folks like the one I described have. :D
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  Oh there is the occasional "what mineral are you" question on here. Guess what I answer. :P
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- HAH! I knew there was a reason I liked you!
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  We both have gypsum in our blood!
  
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  by The Chief on January 10th, 2009
- Yep yep. :)
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
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by killdrphil - reasonable for a madman on January 10th, 2009
She pretends she is a lot of things. She probably realizes how shallow her whole career has been and is now trying to become things that she isn't.
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- I concur. I think that she needs something to grasp onto. I do not remember what she has "been" over the years. I think she also "was" Native American for a time.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Yeah. She seems like someone still trying to find herself.
  
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  by killdrphil - reasonable for a madman on January 10th, 2009
- The thing she did not figure out is that she HAS her own identity. She is, if I remember correctly, of Italian Roman Catholic heritage (she trashed her faith, by the way).
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  She did not need to find herself. Well, she does... she needs to find HER OWN self, not someone else's self.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- I think she'll use whatever she can, whatever fits her at the time. That's probably a big reason why she became famous in the first place. And, yeah, she doesn't seem to have much respect for very many things.
  
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  by killdrphil - reasonable for a madman on January 10th, 2009
- No she does not. Respect would be learning about things and not desecrating them like she did the Jewish faith. Learning about them would not be going on about the stereotype of my people, rather learning about us (and she is touring with Russian Roma... she has that chance).
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  She does seem to go with the flavor of the moment.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- killdrphil, the reason she became famous was because when she moved to New York & told the cab driver to drop her off in the center of everything, she started going to dancing auditions & kept taking dance classes , & she danced at clubs, took a cd (demo) of hers to a local dj at a club he played it, it was a dancing hit, and he took her to see his friend who was in the hospital at the time ( I forget his name) but he was one of the people who worked at a major music company. She played her music for him & he loved it, & signed her on the spot. That is how she became famous in the first place.
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- All I was saying by that in particular is that she is/was opportunistic. I'm sure she would admit to that.
  
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  by killdrphil - reasonable for a madman on January 12th, 2009
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by Rinky Dinky Do on January 10th, 2009
Madonna is a whack job of sorts and an attention getter at whatever the price. If she hadn't been wrongly 'blessed' with a talent that allowed her to become filthy rich and had to work like the rest of us (with her kind of behavior patterns and what she's shown to date, she'll probably be a cashier at Dunkin Donuts), I'm quite sure that she would think quite differently and wouldn't have as much time to waste on stupid things
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- I think that with the Jewish thing, insulting her own original faith, and the like, she is going for whatever gets the press. Maybe she is trying to challenge people to think but I do not think she would do this if it did not bring in the $$$.
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  (copied from another comment thread):
  I think in our case she saw the "fun," romantic stereotype of being Roma and decided it was for her. She obviously did not talk to the guys from Gogol Bordello or the Kolpakov Trio. They have NOT had it easy.
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  It seems that she wants fantasy in our case and controversy in others.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Something tells me that her 'original faith' equals mine. She believes in nothing but her own self-righteous self and sense of entitlement. She's not doing anything to challenge anybody or anything but to get attention, apparently, the divorce thing didn't quite do the job. She's a whack job of sort with a talent and lots of issues and she just doesn't go away...man!
  
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  by Rinky Dinky Do on January 10th, 2009
- I kind of agree with that. I do not think she had any faith.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- She does whatever it takes to get her attention and derive money from it in the process
  
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  by Rinky Dinky Do on January 10th, 2009
- That has been the story of her life.
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  Now she is going on about Malawi which, indeed, does need help. However, she is prominent in the shoots. It looks, to me, like she is mugging for the camera.
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  I have a cause I am fighting for: the deathcamps the United Nations set up for my people on toxic dumps. We have an activist there who lives with the people. He and his crew have to be evacuated out of there for their health when their lead levels raise to the point where their lives are threatened. When they get treatment, they go right back into it. They have been at it for 9 years. They have had to be treated for lead poisoning repeatedly in their fight to help. They are STILL at it.
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  I doubt that Madonna would lay HER health and safety on the line for ANY cause so her Malawi thing, to me, is suspect.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- I hear you. I just can't wait for her to go away, been waiting for almost 20 years now but she always seem to come up with some new PR gimmick to remind us that she's still around
  
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  by Rinky Dinky Do on January 10th, 2009
- I usually just pay her no heed. But then it is easy for me because I have not had my television hooked up since 2003 or 2004... I forgot.
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  I also do not listen to any radio stations other than classic rock or country.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
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by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
What.

If I learned anything from your page, you can't just BE a Gypsy. I guess you can always travel around, but that doesn't make anyone a Gypsy, and I'm pretty sure that this Gypsy trait of old isn't categorizing Gypsies of its own.

But whatever, she's an idiot if you ask me, and her perception of said change, from wanting to be Jewish to becoming a Gypsy, I believe is attributed to further glamorize her reputation in stardom.

Choosing a religion is something serious, and while I guess you can do it for the fun of it, and everyone is allowed to try whatever, I'm pretty sure her intent goes as deep as the superficiality of physical looks, from being a Goth to some sorta gangster girl to a fine arts and wine lady and then humping televisions while singing about a lifeless Hollywood. Lulz hypocrite.

But I could be wrong, I don't know, maybe she is a deep person and her thoughts go beyond her career, but by her wanting to "be" a Gypsy isn't something that convinces me that she isn't anything more than shallow.

So is she aware that both Jews and Gypsies were victims of the Holocaust at all? If she is, that's a bit of a freaky string she's weaving. >_>

But whatever she does, someone will buy it, and Gypsy will be further defined away from what one actually is.

I'm just surprised she even knows what one is.

I take that back, she obviously doesn't, ha ha.
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- I doubt she even KNOWS we were victims in the Holocaust. I doubt she "knows" any more than the section I quoted.
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  I think she only is thinking about the romantic mystique of my people. If she actually WAS one she would not be blathering on about it as she is.
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  We have an unflattering word for people like that: puyuria. That means "Gypsy groupie." I forget the original meaning of that. I only know the slang.
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  The good thing about all of this is that she is going to get bored with us and find something else. Her flavors of the day change quickly.
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  No, traveling around or any other activity does not make someone Romani. It is written in our DNA. We have even isolated a specific marker on the Y chromosome that is unique to us. We are on the way to isolating a marker on mitochondrial DNA specific to us.
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  At least people know that she does this and at least she is not portraying a negative stereotype. I would rather this than some others.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Maybe, just maybe, someone shall decide to learn more about us. I know that she is traveling with a very well-respected Russian Romani band and I suspect that maybe some people shall want to hear more of them and, in the process, develop an interest in us.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- "At least people know that she does this and at least she is not portraying a negative stereotype. I would rather this than some others."
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  Gotta agree with that one. Could be worse I suppose, however the hopes will lie with this Gypsy Russian dude she's traveling with in order to dispel whatever fallacy she'll make outta Roma. You know like, you guys so totally need some more bs spread about you. (Sarcasm.) Also I'm wondering, is that certificate in your profile for real?
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- I know about the band and, although I have not heard anything FROM them, I know that they are activists and are not silent. I know enough about them to know that they are doing it to teach and spread positive images of us. I am glad that Madonna is allowing them to actually show some of OUR culture in it:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ghXbVRr8n8
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  I am baffled that Madonna managed to have such a view of us considering that she did a gig with Gogol and is touring with the Kolpakov Trio. These people have had it rough. I am certain they have told her stories of their lives.
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  Nope, the certificate is not real. Notice the names in the signatures. ;) Keysha made that for me because in Pennsylvania and more States it was illegal to state that you were a Gypsy without paying for a license. If you did not buy your license, you risked having your assets seized, a heavy fine, and/or jailtime.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Actually after seeing the video, I'm glad that it features authentic Gypsy music, rather than a Madonna version OF Gypsy music. Guess it can't be that bad, and like you said, might drive some people to want to learn more about them.
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  Ha ha I thought it was a real license, and that you just Photoshoped the I am a Bigot name on there. After those anti Gypsy signs you said you saw, that wouldn't surprise me.
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- So was I. I am glad that she did a decent job and let them play. She even did a decent job and did not overshadow them. I object to not giving Vadim Kolpakov a guitar mic because he is one of the greatest 7 string Russian Roma guitarists. I suspect that this video might draw Gadje to want to listen more. If they listen more, they shall maybe want to learn about us.
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  I am also glad that Vadim Kolpakov was allowed to dance and was pleased that Madonna obviously had him teach some rudimentary Roma dancing to her dancers. I am also pleased that she did not sl*t it up herself or with her dancers. That shows some respect to my culture.
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  Ah no, I actually have never seen one of the original licenses. I think they stopped being required in 2003, if I remember correctly.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- On CBC not so long ago, they featured a Gypsy who's putting together, or has put together, a CD with different Gypsy songs on them from different places. He lives in Canada. But damnit I forgot the name of the CD, it was interesting anyway. Maybe you know about it? It's one word, like "Umderground" or "Uncensored" or something all rebel like that. I would look it up, but his name was really weird and I don't remember this either.
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- Nope, never heard of it. His name being weird covers a LOT of us. :P
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  I am going to see if I can find it. :) Translation: I am asking the Google Goddess to look. That would be Keysha.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- I know it's online somewhere, but searching something without remembering any name does not work well. :/ Still, it was pretty cool.
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- She is finding a few possibilities... still digging. I am listening to Lubo & Kaba Horo right now. It is a band so not the CD you are interested in. I am trying to find a way to purchase the single for this song. It really is good.
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  There is also one of more modern music called "Electric Gypsyland." I am too old school to like those CDs though.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Hmm...if we find this one, you might not be so interested then, but it seemed pretty good to me though. Seemed pretty old school, but the guy specializes in putting styles in the songs like Jazz and Blues, so it sounds really different. I don't know a whole lot about Gypsy music though, so I can't say how authentic it is, but being that the guy is a Gypsy, has to be pretty close, and he called other Gypsy artists to help him out.
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- I would love to hear it! I am still looking.
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  I do not know if you have been by my IMVU yet but I have some 80 tracks on there of the real deal. I am, though, very traditional in my tastes. There are a lot of fusions and other out there. That is not my preference. I do have some modern-ish tracks on there but not that many.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- I can't find it either, all I get is Gypsy concerts and music lesson places lol. Yeah I've heard some from your page, but it's hard to say...the vocals and beats from the more uppity songs in your profile are a lot like what I heard on the radio, (Especially the singers.) and the instruments used sound alike, only what I had they added drums, saxophones and so forth. Sounded a little more modern than what was on your page. It's good music though, I only wish I could understand what they're saying lol.
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- I only get a word here and there. I grew up speaking Kalderashi and that is just one of a kazillion dialects. I have lost almost all of that and, even if I still spoke it, that does not mean I would speak the rest of the dialects. I have music on those players from ALL over the world.
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  I do not like brassy music, which is the preponderance of today's modern Romani music. I like a few but not many. We are also responsible for a horrid form of modern music called "Menele." *cringe* In our defense, Gadje play it too but we started it. *hangs head*
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  I have a lot of new music by very traditional bands. I also have some of more modern style but with a heavy grounding in tradition.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Oh I think I found it but now I'm confused. It's "Contrabanda" but I don't think that's the name of the disc, but rather a genre of Gypsy music. is that possible? Anyways the guy's name is Lubo and he's from Bulgaria. I think it was called Fusion III, have to find details. :/
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- Here is an example of a brass Roma band that I like (they are very well known) though this is not my favorite of their tracks (I shall fileden it if you want to hear it):
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MsWl7eCs_E
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  I have not heard of a genre called that but, again, I am very old fashioned. I am finding a group with that name:
  http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=167846238
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  ... however they do not have any of the Roma bands on their friend's list. There is a HUGE network of Roma bands on Myspace. The music does not sound Roma either (they are a pipe band) but the fusions confuse me. So this must not be it.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Nope, that wasn't it...damnit I don't know lol, but I liked that first track you Youtubed. Okay so I'm pretty sure it was "brass Roma" then, because that video totally sounds like one of the songs that I heard. Well if I ever find it I'll let you know, but if I ever want to get some Gypsy music, I have a slightly good idea what to look for, as far as the genres go.
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- If you ever want to collect some, I can probably direct you pretty well. I have rather an amazing collection. Part of it was a collaborative effort of a Gadje man and Romica Pucaneau to smuggle a collection out of Communist Romania. Had they been caught, both would have been imprisoned possibly for life. The Gadje fellow converted all of the LPs into MP3's and posted them for free to all.
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  I got all of the ones that were not corrupt files.
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  What the heck I thought I would show you my favorite song from the band I youtubed you to and my all time favorite brass song. It is odd, very.
  http://premium.fileden.com/premium/2006/6/7/54285/07%20Duj%20Duj.mp3
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  It is almost impossible for me to listen to that without dancing.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- That is fusion rooted deeply in tradition.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Damnit I can't even hear it. My Windows is er...pirates would be proud of me, but I can't validate my Media Player because of it. >_> is that one on Youtube somewhere?
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  And that's some damn risky business, smuggling stuff outta there. Is that what it takes these days to introduce people to new music? *Frown.*
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- Awwwwwwww... too bad. It is an excellent song. :(
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  I cannot find that version of it on youtube. :(
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  They smuggled it out in the 70's... Romania is no longer communist. Romica and her Gadje friend wanted to save this music before it was destroyed. Most likely the stuff that was smuggled out would have never been heard had they not done it. It includes some recordings on cassette tapes from the fireside of Roma camps.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Wait what, they were going to destroy it? Wtf. Not that it should surprise me by now but still, that's retarded.
  Well if someone ever DOES make a Youtube variation, let me know? (Or until I get a new computer. >_>)
  
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  by Symbeline on January 10th, 2009
- There is no knowing if it would have been destroyed... that is my supposition because most of the music from that era never made it out of Romania even after the fall of communism. I have no clue why.
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  It might just have been a preservation.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
- Symbeline-Rated R: You said "you were suprised she even knows what one is" Of course she would know what one is when she has a recorded IQ of 140 which does in fact equal to Very Superior Intelligence. If you would stop judging her by her past or her music & actually listen to her talk in speech's or in interviews you would find that she is actually very spiritually deep & very smart.
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- Lulz, IQ ratings. Leave me alone with that, IQ does NOT measure knowledge or wisdom. Whatsoever.
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  And, judging from what she says, all she knows about Gypsies is the stereotypical allure, the light side of the fantasy Gypsy running around in a caravan and being all happy. Sure that's nice, the good intent is there I'm sure, but, I don't think that's a Gypsy. Nobody woulda said a damned thing if she said she wanted to imitate the musical art of the Gypsy, (Which she did quite well might I add.) but BEING a Gypsy? Come on. The only thing I know about em is what Arisztid told me, but it's enough to know that Roma is an ethnicity, not a "genre", a religion or a style.
  
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  by Symbeline on January 12th, 2009
- How do you know she's using it as a style?
  Have you asked her face to face? She that's what makes me so mad.
  People just make generalizations about celebs based off of what they see on television, hear on the radio, watch at concerts, hear from someone else. But no really knows what is going on inside that particular celebs head, so how does anyone know that she isn't truly sincere about it?
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- I have NO clue how she managed to have that image of us. I know Gogol's and Kolpakov's stories. They have NOT had good lives. The Kolpakov Trio are Russian Roma and have lived VERY hard lives. Eugene Hutz of Gogol is a refugee from, I think it was, the Ukraine and, actually, he is Gadje. He escaped as a child from the Ukraine and was adopted by us. He traveled nation to nation with us, chased, kicked out from place to place.
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  How being with these two groups of people did she manage to have this lah-lah fru-fru view of us? I am certain they told stories.
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  The Kolpakov Trio are actual activists not just musicians and Eugene is also an activist for us.
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  How did Madonna get such a stereotypical, unrealistic image of us?
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  If she was one of us, even in the USA, she would hand it back so fast she would get whiplash.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- I thank her greatly for doing what she is doing regarding giving us positive airtime but I DO wish she had learned, herself, what it really means to be Roma.
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  She loves the stereotypical romantic image of us, wants to be that, but why did she not learn the truth from people who teach and have lived the hard life?
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- Did you read my entire post? I said I thought she was an idiot, but I also admitted in said post that she may also be a very deep person. But what have I got to go other than the media? Even if it doesn't represent her more serious self, it still has a damn significant impact on folks, and that's what is important, especially when involving a race of people.
  And what do you know about it more than me? Have YOU talked to Madonna face to face? How do you know she IS serious about it? Oh, as a matter of fact, I didn't say she was using it as a style, I was mentioning that this is something she said herself. There's a difference. So, your argument about me not knowing the person in real life is, indeed, very valid; however I can huck it right back in your face, because you don't know her anymore than me. Unless you're her manager, a friend or Madonna herself.
  
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  by Symbeline on January 12th, 2009
- How do you honestly know that they are her views though.
  Do you not get what Im saying? Like seriously, you have what 3, 4, paragraphs of words she said? What does that prove besides very litte? I just think your very quick to point the finger in the wrong direction at someone who just likes experiencing all different types of things & is very lucky that she has done that in her lifetime & I would reward her for that instead of bringing her down for it.
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- You have a point, I will admit, I have not met Madonna more than seeing her on stage, standing behind a rope screaming Madonna!! & getting an autograph. I am not her manager, nor her friend. But my uncle Bradley from my fathers side im not sure if he just knows, or is friends with but anyhow, he knows Madonna's publicist Liz Rosenberg even though I do not like Liz, she is a complete & total liar. But I just have a feeling that I have known how Madonna is for a long time, watched enough biography, read enough books on her, been to enough concerts, heard enough songs, watched enough interviews, & heard enough speech's to know that she is more spiritually deep then not.
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- How did she manage to have this completely unrealistic view of us after being exposed to the people I describe? I know Eugene's story better than the Kolpakov's (they are a family like most Roma bands) but I know that the Kolpakov's story has been a VERY hard one.
  .
  I do not understand. How can she be with these people and just plain not get it?
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- How do you know that she does not get it?
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- She said:
  .
  "She said: "I think, secretly, I want to be a gypsy."
  
  "I love the idea of traveling round and playing music and letting life unfold in a spontaneous way."
  .
  She has NO clue. She would not last a couple of months in America as one of us without her money, bodyguards, and fame before she handed it back in a hurry. First few times she was turned down for jobs for being Roma, alone, would do it much less the rest. She would not survive a week, literally, in EU without it as one of us. Literally.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- OMG! 27 words! That explains nothing. How do you know that she doesn't know more than that? Maybe that's just the tip of the iceberg of her words & that she does know more & just didn't feel like stating it all. Maybe she just made a quick little insight?
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- OMG! 27 words! is all I have to go on because that is ALL SHE SAID WHERE I CAN SEE IT.
  
  .
  OMG!
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- And if that is her idea of "insight" she has NOT a friggin' clue.
  .
  In case you missed my edit:
  She has NO clue. She would not last a couple of months in America as one of us without her money, bodyguards, and fame before she handed it back in a hurry. First few times she was turned down for jobs for being Roma, alone, would do it much less the rest. She would not survive a week, literally, in EU without it as one of us. Literally.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- Just because she has all of those things does not mean she couldn't live without them.
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- How come, all of a sudden you start posting questions starting drama with Madonna? She's already a huge topic being questioned for a million things. She's just a person. & now im going to get a bit Britney style. "Leave Madonna Alone"
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- I am not picking on her. I am asking how she managed to miss the truth about us.
  .
  I have stated repeatedly that I really appreciate what she is doing with regards to showcasing us. She is taking a huge risk.
  .
  And as far as living without fame, there is a difference between living without fame as a Gadje and living with or without fame as a Roma.
  .
  In EU it is a fight for their lives and genocide. In America we face job discrimination to the point where we are turned down for jobs more often than not, tailed in stores, we have to see, in some places, signs at cash registers reminding them to mind their drawers, Gypsies are in town, we have to learn to fight or else, the police ignore us, and more. We have to put up with the after effects of actual anti-Gypsy laws and EXTREME racial profiling, vandalism with no consequence of our property, vile ethnic slurs. And more.
  .
  I do not think she could take it.
  .
  I can back up everything I say if you say I am lying.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- I posted this ONE question about Madonna when I found the article I linked to. I was expecting her to turn puyuria and, yes, I looked. And, yes, I have been interested in the Jewish reaction to her "borrowing." So, I combined them.
  .
  Just one.
  .
  Go look up my questions if you do not believe me.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- No one said they dont believe you. & also, why point out Madonna, im sure there are other celebs doing much much more horrible things, but simply because she is (Madonna) things tend to get more over exaggerated.
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- Ok, thankyou.
  .
  I asked because Keysha had just sent me the link I posted.
  .
  I had been interested because I have seen Madonna "borrow" the Jewish faith, had heard that she had some kind of thing with Native Americans, and was wondering if there were any others she had done this with. I also wanted to know Jewish reaction to this.
  .
  It is something I have wondered since I first saw her with the Jewish thing and the article finally prompted the question.
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  I would have asked if any celebrity had done the same. Madonna just is the one who DID do it.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- "How come, all of a sudden you start posting questions starting drama with Madonna? She's already a huge topic being questioned for a million things. She's just a person. & now im going to get a bit Britney style. "Leave Madonna Alone""
  .
  I found the quote from her while looking for something on the net with 'Gypsy' as one of the tags. I showed him, and he had to ask this question. Singular. Not plural. And as far as raising drama about her, that is what she lives for. I'm sure this single question would not even be a blip on her radar, even if she saw it.
  .
  Oh, and it is not 'Britney style,' it is Chris Crocker style. And I can't believe ANYONE would want to associate themselves with him.
  
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  by Keysha on January 12th, 2009
- Okay "Chris Crocker" He said it about Britney. That's why I said "Britney Style" & I know she wouldn't care about this question because it could go 2 ways she would either just use her classic words of "F*ck Off" & be done with it, or she would use her intelligence & tell you off in a very smart way with clever words & then be done with it.
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- I would rather, if she came here, have her talk to me and learn what it REALLY means to be Roma.
  .
  I would hope that reading this question would inspire her to do that. I would hope that she would go talk to the Roma she is traveling with, learn their tales, be inspired to learn.
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  I would like to think she cared enough.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- Well If you want to talk to her then just e-mail Liz?
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- I was just talking about if she came here. I would not seek her out. I am way to busy with my real life situations and my fight for my people in Kosovo to seek out such a communication.
  .
  I would like her to have a realistic view of us but other than being a bit annoyed by this one thing, I do not care. And, as far as her "thing" for us, as I said, I am pleased that she is showcasing us well and I like the song I have seen her do with us. Oh if you have not seen it yet, you might like it.
  .
  My question here was curiosity.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- Well my fight for my people in Kosovo AND Italy because I have been in the fight for Italy since the beginning. Kosovo I just found out about.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
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by Galeanda on January 10th, 2009
She does whatever will get her attention. I"m just amazed that people seem to care so much and that she takes such delight in sharing her ' deepest' desires with the public. Maybe it's to make herself seem like a caring HUMAN instead of an empty vessel, ready to try filling up with anything nearby.

She has trashed just about every ethnicity or beliefs she's associated with including her own.

I love this quote from wiki:
"The use of religious symbols such as the crucifix and Crown of Thorns in the performance of "Live to Tell" caused controversy. The Russian Orthodox Church and the Federation of Jewish Communities of Russia urged all members to boycott her concert. Prosecutors in Düsseldorf threatened to sue her and a Protestant bishop said, "the only way an aging superstar can attract attention is to offend people's religious sentiments." Vatican officials claimed her mock crucifixion was an open attack on Catholicism, to which Madonna responded: "My performance is neither anti-Christian, sacrilegious or blasphemous. Rather, it is my plea to the audience to encourage mankind to help one another and to see the world as a unified whole." In December 2006, PETA criticized Madonna for wearing a chinchilla fur coat in a London restaurant."

She is just using whatever will garner her attention. She is like a starving person, oblivious of who else is hungry and who may own the food she's stealing.
Comments
- Wow!
  .
  That is a bit tacky.
  .
  I think in our case she saw the "fun," romantic stereotype of being Roma and decided it was for her. She obviously did not talk to the guys from Gogol Bordello or the Kolpakov Trio. They have NOT had it easy.
  .
  It seems that she wants fantasy in our case and controversy in others.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 10th, 2009
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by Carmella on January 12th, 2009
Madonna strikes me as an unfortunate and pathetic being who is looking for The Answer To Life. She seems to revamp herself every few years in the vain attempt to find whatever she's looking for -- her body, her religion and even her husband!

So it doesn't really bother me, to be honest. Loads of celebrities jump on and off various religious bandwagons, Dr. Laura is another one who changes religion more often than she changes her socks.

So they can carry on, they're not interfering with my relationship with religion. I think most people just roll their eyes when they see Madonna with a new red bangle or crucifix or whatever she's wearing now.
Comments
- I am not bothered other than being slightly annoyed by this. She is not really trashing us like she did the Jewish faith. I think that if she trashed us I would be a bit more annoyed.
  .
  I do not like that she, despite close contact with us, has refused to learn about us... the real us... instead clinging to a fru-fru lah de dah stereotype of us.
  .
  It could be worse though. Instead of the romanticized version she could be sl*tting us up or the thieving version. She IS showing us some respect in how she performs with the Roma band she is touring with.
  .
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ghXbVRr8n8 (if you are interested)
  .
  She IS showcasing our music and dance well unlike what she did to your faith with that sacred text strapped to her arm. I am actually pleased for a number of reasons with that: she is not sl*tting herself up or sl*tting her dancers up (by our culture being sl*tted up is actually "unclean"), she had Vadim Kolpakov teach some of her dancers some of our moves, and Vadim Kolpakov did full traditional dancing. She could have given Vadim a friggin' guitar mic though. He is one of the foremost Roma 7 string guitarists in the world.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- "I am actually pleased for a number of reasons with that VIDEO" I meant.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
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by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
Hmm. Well next subject, since ya know im just waiting for it. Go bag on me for my answer on Keysha's question, because I knew it was coming for me after I read the answer I posted.
Comments
- What?? I have no clue what you are talking about.
  .
  If you answered one of Keysha's questions it did not take. She said that she has no new answers.
  
  Report
  
  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
- My bad. It was a question that we both answered About a trillion dollars & what you would do with it.
  
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  by Beautiful Stranger Is Back on January 12th, 2009
- Oh ok, no problem.
  
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  by Arisztid on January 12th, 2009
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by Snowman on April 26th, 2012
Seriously, who cares what Madonna does? You may be taking her too seriously. You may even be taking the various cultures she dabbles in too seriously. Whether she gets involved very little or very deeply, I can't see the harm that you seem to see. If she joined the Aborigines and trekked naked across the desert with them, why should it bother the rest of us?

I read a biography of a white woman who did just that. Afterward, she returned to her own niche in Western civilization with a greater understanding and tolerance for other cultures. Isn't that a good thing?
Comments
- I actually do not have much of an issue with her. She came to my attention briefly and, until now, has faded from it.
  
  At one point I had a huge problem with her, along with a good chunk of my people. We spent a few days in a great deal of concern. In our case, she was pretty dumb about jumping on our bandwagon. With very little research she could have learned that she could have caused violence. Yes, her sentiment was very noble but her actions were dangerous. Luckily violence did not result from what I heard.
  
  http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/27/madonna-gypsies-romania-bucharest-boos/#.T5kvrNXl294
  http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15369673
  http://www.norocel.eu/?p=279
  
  There are reasons that her appropriation of my culture somewhat bothers me which I am not going to go into. Many others do it too and, if I was going to get my knickers in a twist, I would have to do it about all of them.
  
  My question was mainly to Jews because she used symbols of Jewish faith in one of her acts. If I remember correctly, women are not even supposed to have these religious articles on them and nobody is supposed to display them publically. I would think that this would have been a HUGE thing. Her playing "Gypsy" just got me thinking about it.
  
  My secondary question was simply "how many cultures/ religions/ etc. has she flitted to and from?
  
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  by Arisztid on April 26th, 2012
- It appears that Madonna, and anyone else who follows in her tracks, would do well to confer with a representative(s) of a country before scheduling a glittery celebrity visit. But how should she select such a representative? A political leader? A few years ago that would have required Nicolae Ceaușescu's approval. An opposition leader? Bad idea LOL
  
  Next, how would we screen those who wished to visit Romania? An ordinary visitor might be a tourist, or archaeologist, or someone planning to look up long-lost family members. Such a person might carry a "celebrity status" of zero.
  
  There is a vast range between a tourist and Madonna. How would we determine if a given individual carried sufficient celebrity status (aka, notoriety) that we would want him/her to confer with the locals before visiting?
  
  I would not want to screen the visitors. LOL
  
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  by Snowman on April 26th, 2012
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Question

I know Madonna has "borrowed" the Jewish faith and now she wants to be a "Gypsy" (link included). How many cultures, ethnicities and religions, total, has she done this with? To Jewish ABers, what do you think of her borrowing your faith?

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Question

I know Madonna has "borrowed" the Jewish faith and now she wants to be a "Gypsy" (link included). How many cultures, ethnicities and religions, total, has she done this with? To Jewish ABers, what do you think of her borrowing your faith?

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