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Some think if you believe in Jesus you will never loose your salvation.
by Texasescimo on December 11th, 2011
Is hard cover or leather best for a bible?
by Answerbag Staff on April 8th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
Is there an earlier public version on another site that is still around of that Christian/garage quote than this one? See description.
by A on April 22nd, 2012
| 1 person likes this
How did Jesus pay for people's sins? Did he use a credit card, a check, or did he pull out his Holy Wallet?
by mrinsane7066 on April 28th, 2012
| 3 people like this
My soul mate and I were reunited on Good Friday; after almost 5 years being kept apart. Do you consider it to be a miracle? Why/why not?
by katy2 on April 28th, 2012
| 1 person likes this
Why am i losing my faith in god? I had a strong faith but now it is going away and i am realizing that god seems outrageous.
by DaveyRay on April 23rd, 2012
| 3 people like this
You're reading Eternal security or a bunch of hooey?
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Comments
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by hong kong phooey on December 11th, 2011
Hi Tex, going to your post, does that mean that 'Once Saved Always Saved' is not a biblical teaching according the Bible Verses you added?
Hmm, I'm curious to know because hong kong phooey wrote in his answer with capital letters: "SALVATION CANNOT BE LOST" - so either he's lost or the Watchtower has informed you wrong since it has to be one of the two.
by Liz on December 12th, 2011
read the book of judges it is all about israel sinning and repenting , israel sinned over and over but each time they sinned they repented after and god heard there cries of repentance and forgave
moses killed a man after knowing the truth and god still used him to lead all them jews out of egypt
king david commited adultery and had a man killed so he could marry that mans wife and god still used david after he repented, i mean jesus came out of his blood line
all this forgiveness from god even before jesus was born
when as a christian we give our hearts to jesus and accept him as our saviour we are under gods grace and no longer under the law ( this does not mean we can habitualy sin but even then salvation cannot be lost but habitual sin has it`s price )
we are all born with a sinful nature a result of the original sin that adam and eve commited but we have jesus as our intercessor praying allways on our behalf
no one not even satan or any angels can take gods love away from us and no one can take gods children out of his hands amen
:)
by hong kong phooey on December 12th, 2011
Liz, those scriptures I gave are from the Bible, not the Watchtower.
HKP, the key to that is "repentance".
by Texasescimo on December 12th, 2011
exactly :)
so you see now salvation cannot be lost
when we sin we repent ,we are acknowledging our sins and we ask jesus to be our strength in our weakness
we are incapable of doing anything under our own understanding or strength that pleases god so this is why jesus is our strength in our weakness and understanding
:)
by hong kong phooey on December 12th, 2011
I know what the popular Church's teach but I get the feeling that you did not prayerfully look up the scriptures in my answer.
(2 Timothy 4:2-4) preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.
by Texasescimo on December 12th, 2011
who do you say jesus is ?
by hong kong phooey on December 12th, 2011
In the first century, the disciples thought that Jesus was the son of God. They also thought that the God and Father of Jesus was the only true God. I agree with them.
(John 20:31) But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name.
(Matthew 16:15-17) He said to them: “YOU, though, who do YOU say I am?” 16 In answer Simon Peter said: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Jo′nah, because flesh and blood did not reveal [it] to you, but my Father who is in the heavens did.
(John 10:36) do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?
(Luke 1:35) In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. For that reason also what is born will be called holy, God’s Son.
(1 John 4:15) Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God.
(Acts 9:20) and immediately in the synagogues he began to preach Jesus, that this One is the Son of God.
(2 Corinthians 1:19) For the Son of God, Christ Jesus, who was preached among YOU through us, that is, through me and Sil‧va′nus and Timothy, did not become Yes and yet No, but Yes has become Yes in his case.
(Hebrews 4:14) Seeing, therefore, that we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold onto [our] confessing of [him].
(John 11:27) She said to him: “Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ the Son of God, the One coming into the world.”
(Matthew 26:63-64) But Jesus kept silent. So the high priest said to him: “By the living God I put you under oath to tell us whether you are the Christ the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him: “You yourself said [it]. ..."
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 8:5-6) For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.
(John 14:28) YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
(1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.
(2 Corinthians 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort,
(Ephesians 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,
(1 Peter 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(Romans 15:6) that with one accord YOU may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Continued...
by Texasescimo on December 12th, 2011
He is also our Lord and Savior.
(Acts 13:23) From the offspring of this [man] according to his promise God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus,
(1 Timothy 1:15) Faithful and deserving of full acceptance is the saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.
(1 John 4:14) In addition, we ourselves have beheld and are bearing witness that the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world.
(Acts 4:12) Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
(Acts 10:43) To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name.”
(John 14:6) Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(1 Timothy 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,
Jesus is also the firstborn of all creation, by means of whom God created all things other that himself and God.
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/11578964
by Texasescimo on December 12th, 2011
Hi Tex, I didn't say that the Bible passages were from the Watchtower. Here is what I wrote: "so either he's lost or the Watchtower has informed you wrong since it has to be one of the two."
Meaning, the Watchtower has gave you the wrong biblical passages in concerns to Eternal Salvation since hong kong phooey does not agree that Salvation can be lost. I read some of hong kong phooey's answers in other subjects, and I'll have to say that he has given great answers.
But where either him or you are wrong is that he brought up the book of Judges, Moses and David from the Old Testament which don't have anything to with God's grace in the New Testament.
2 Corinthians 12:9 "And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me."
by Liz on December 12th, 2011
Tex, 2 Timothy 4:2-4, John 20:31, Matthew 16:15-17, John 10:36, Luke 1:35, 1 John 4:15, Acts 9:20, 2 Corinthians 1:19, Hebrews 4:14, John 11:27, Matthew 26:63-64, John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, John 14:28, 1 Corinthians 11:3, 2 Corinthians 1:3, Ephesians 1:3, 1 Peter 1:3, Romans 15:6, Acts 13:23, 1 Timothy 1:15, 1 John 4:14, Acts 4:12, Acts 10:43, John 14:6 and 1 Timothy 2:5 are irrelevant in this subject...
"Eternal security or a bunch of hooey?
Some think if you believe in Jesus you will never loose your salvation."
hong kong phooey wrote on his recent comment: "so you see now salvation cannot be lost"
I know you probably heard what most Baptists teach that there is no way the sheep can be snatched away from the Lord's hand.
John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."
So how is it that Christians can lose their Salvation according to John 10:28?
by Liz on December 12th, 2011
Often one subject tends to lead into another. If it bothers you that I answered HKP's question, perhaps you should have flagged his question:
"who do you say jesus is ?"
(John 10:28) And I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever be destroyed, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
No one can snatch them out of his hand but they can turn away of their own choosing hence all the warnings.
Do you agree with this reasoning?
Partakers of holy spirit can fall. Heb 6:4, 6; 1Co 9:27
Many Israelites destroyed though saved from Egypt. Jude 5
Salvation is not instantaneous. Php 2:12; 3:12-14; Mt 10:22
Those turning back are worse off than before. 2Pe 2:20, 21
by Texasescimo on December 12th, 2011
Great job Texas! When are you going to turn Catholic?
by jay on December 12th, 2011
Hit Tex, I'll let you know about your reasoning, but first I would like to read hong kong phooey's response to see what he has to say.
by Liz on December 12th, 2011
Tex, to your remarks, in no ways am I bothered, but I thought this site was filled with some helpful advice when it comes to understanding a subject. Incase you didn't know, there are a lot questions in this site that ask about Jesus, I just didn't see how the passages you added were relevant to hong kong phooey's remarks of believing that Salvation cannot be lost.
Here you wrote: "No one can snatch them out of his hand but they can turn away of their own choosing hence all the warnings." And - Hebrews 6:4-6, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Jude Chapter 5, Philippians 2:12, 3:12-14, Matthew 10:22 and 2 Peter 2:20-21 when Baptists say that Christians are "sealed" in Eternal Salvation.
2 Corinthians 1:21-23 "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, 22 who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."
How can the seal be broken???
by Liz on December 12th, 2011
texasescimo
i did ask "who do you say jesus is ?"
you gave great scriptural answers but i did say who do YOU say jesus is ?
i see you say he is the son of god but i say he is so much more than that
as for turning away of our own choosing this is only true in the sence that we can walk out from under his umbrella of protection and does not mean we can walk away from salvation(who would choose to do that)
god says he will never leave us or forsake us and that means NEVER!
but we can walk away from under his shadow of protection but he will never leave us because we have been chosen as his own children and have been given the holy spirit to dwell inside us and the spirit of god never dies so neither will we because "i am united to the lord and am one spirit with him "(1 corinthians 6:17)
tell me your personal experiences encountering jesus, holy spirit :)
by hong kong phooey on December 13th, 2011
JAY
could you please keep your mocking remarks to your self this is a conversation on beliefs
texasescimo is a friend of mine on my friends list and will not tolerate you or any body mocking him with them stupid remarks
if you have anything to add to this conversation that is of any real help then do so but please no mockery thank you
by hong kong phooey on December 13th, 2011
I was not mocking. I respect Texas and I agree with his beliefs on Salvation. I admire him in many ways even though I don't agree with many of his beliefs. Those scriptures he posted can be reasoned with only one way truth and light when taken in its context. I don't agree with people who pull scripture out of the context and post it to defend their beliefs. This is done a lot and always makes me wonder if people are really being true to themselves and study the scriptures in context before they post. I will always side with pure truth.
by jay on December 13th, 2011
HKF, thank you for standing up for me but I don't think that Jay was trying to mock me. That is nice to stand up for ones that you disagree with.
Thank you Jay, I was afraid I had lost your respect as I know that I have offended you before. Religion is a touchy subject with a lot of emotions involved. I know that I get overly defensive sometimes and I actually left AB for a couple of months at the end of last year through the beginning of this year as I noticed that I was moving from overly defensive to offensive in some threads.
Liz, these are the scriptures from you last post:
(Hebrews 6:4-6) For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, 6 but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.
(1 Corinthians 9:27) but I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, that, after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.
(Philippians 2:12) Consequently, my beloved ones, in the way that YOU have always obeyed, not during my presence only, but now much more readily during my absence, keep working out YOUR own salvation with fear and trembling;
(Philippians 3:12-14) Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pursuing to see if I may also lay hold on that for which I have also been laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having laid hold on [it]; but there is one thing about it: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.
(Matthew 10:22) And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.
(2 Peter 2:20-21) Certainly if, after having escaped from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, the final conditions have become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it accurately to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them.
(2 Corinthians 1:21-23) But he who guarantees that YOU and we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God. 22 He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts. 23 Now I call upon God as a witness against my own soul that it is to spare YOU that I have not yet come to Corinth.
In relation to 2 Cor 1, my next comment will be from part of an article from 2007:
What is the sealing referred to at Revelation 7:3?
“…Paul compared holy spirit to a seal when he stated: “He who guarantees that you and we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God. He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.” (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22) Hence, Jehovah anoints these Christians with his holy spirit to indicate that they are his possession.
Continued..
by Texasescimo on December 13th, 2011
However, there are two phases in the sealing of anointed ones. The initial sealing differs from the final sealing (1) in purpose and (2) in time. The sealing in an initial sense serves to select a new member who is added to the number of anointed Christians. The sealing in a final sense serves to confirm that this chosen and sealed individual has fully demonstrated his loyalty. Only then, at the final sealing, will the seal be permanently placed ‘in the forehead’ of the anointed one, identifying him conclusively as a tried and faithful ‘slave of our God.’ The sealing mentioned in Revelation chapter 7 refers to this final phase of the sealing.—Revelation 7:3.
Concerning the timing of the initial sealing, the apostle Paul wrote to anointed Christians: “You also hoped in him after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. By means of him also, after you believed, you were sealed with the promised holy spirit.” (Ephesians 1:13, 14) In many cases, the Bible record shows that first-century Christians were indeed sealed shortly after they heard the good news and became believers in Christ. (Acts 8:15-17; 10:44) Such sealing demonstrated God’s approval of them. However, it did not show God’s final approval. Why not?
Paul stated that anointed Christians are “sealed for a day of releasing.” (Ephesians 4:30) This indicates that the passing of time, usually many years, is involved after that initial sealing. Anointed ones need to remain faithful from the day they are sealed with holy spirit until the ‘day they are released’ from their fleshly bodies—that is, until their death. (Romans 8:23; Philippians 1:23; 2 Peter 1:10) Therefore, only at the very end of Paul’s life could he say: “I have run the course to the finish, I have observed the faith. From this time on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness.” (2 Timothy 4:6-8) Moreover, Jesus said to a congregation of anointed Christians: “Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.”—Revelation 2:10; 17:14.
The word “crown” gives further evidence that time passes between the initial sealing and the final one. Why? In ancient times, it was the custom to give a crown to the runner who won a race. To receive the crown, he had to do more than merely enter the race. He had to run all the way to the finish. Similarly, only if anointed Christians persevere all the way to the end of their course—from the initial sealing to the final one—will they be crowned with immortal life in heaven.—Matthew 10:22; James 1:12…”
These are a few of the scriptures from the article above:
(2 Peter 1:10) For this reason, brothers, all the more do YOUR utmost to make the calling and choosing of YOU sure for yourselves; for if YOU keep on doing these things YOU will by no means ever fail.
(Revelation 2:10) Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.
(Revelation 17:14) These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].”
(Matthew 10:22) And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.
(James 1:12) Happy is the man that keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving him.
by Texasescimo on December 13th, 2011
jay
ok sorry my mistake :)
by hong kong phooey on December 13th, 2011
Not sure how often Jay comes on AB but I am pretty sure that he feels that there is no harm done. Just an innocent well meaning misunderstanding.
(James 3:2) For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man, able to bridle also [his] whole body.
by Texasescimo on December 13th, 2011
Hi hong kong phooey, Tex came up with a lot of passages, so I'm thinking that all you have is an opinion to back up your views. You made a lot of statements in this subject...
"Eternal security or a bunch of hooey?
Some think if you believe in Jesus you will never loose your salvation."
To your replies, the one I'm highly concerned is when you wrote in capital letters...
"SALVATION CANNOT BE LOST"
Why are you yelling??? Please don't get me wrong, but I prefer Scripture over man-made traditions. Do you have any biblical reference that supports 'Once Saved Always Saved'???
by Liz on December 13th, 2011
Hi Tex, I'm sure what hong knong phooey is asking you is Jesus a Savior. We all know He is. What he should do is come up with some Scripture to support his claims because 1 Corinthians 6:17 that says: "the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him." - When how do they know in the first place if they are really joined if they continue to sin. See what I mean? :)
by Liz on December 13th, 2011
Tex, you wrote: "“…Paul compared holy spirit to a seal when he stated: “He who guarantees that you and we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God. He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.” (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22) Hence, Jehovah anoints these Christians with his holy spirit to indicate that they are his possession."
Christians being in God's possesion, then how are they going to be snatched away from the Lord's hand??? I understand that Christians can wonder away to lose their Salvation as you said, but what do you think about the wondering sheep, will the Good Shepherd not go out and seek His sheep???
by Liz on December 13th, 2011
Tex, here you wrote: "The sealing in a final sense serves to confirm that this chosen and sealed individual has fully demonstrated his loyalty. Only then, at the final sealing, will the seal be permanently placed ‘in the forehead’ of the anointed one, identifying him conclusively as a tried and faithful ‘slave of our God.’
Hebrews 6:4-6, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Philippians 2:12, Philippians 3:12-14, Matthew 10:22 and 2 Peter 2:20-21 are good passages. But the Bible says in 2 Timothy 3:16 that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for teaching, reproof, correction and for training in righteousness.
2 Corinthians 1:21-23 says that Christians are sealed according to John 3:16-18 in Eternal Salvation...
John 3:16-18 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
I'm sure hong kong phooey is a believer for you to say that he can lose his Salvation. This is what a Baptist told me that the seal is eternal by believing in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
by Liz on December 13th, 2011
Look at the different answers and comments under this question:
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/11470479
The link is to nick bachelor's answer as paragraph 24 in his quote helps to put it into perspective, but look at the other answers as well.
by Texasescimo on December 13th, 2011
Tex, I just looked at the question and some answers, especially what you suggested from the link you provided. I would like to add a comment on some answers that are not biblically inspired, but
I do remember that the questioner told me to stay from his questions.
Anyways, what does Revelation 20:7-9 have to do with a Christian losing his/her Salvation? I asked you some questions in my other replies, are you going to answer them?
by Liz on December 13th, 2011
for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." -Hebrews13:5
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," -Ephesians1:13
Many people will say if they do not live a good Christian life, God will take away their Eternal Security (Salvation). Whereas, the person that has "fallen" away from the Lord will go to hell for not keeping and maintaining a good Christian life. On the contrary, John 3:16 reads that once a believer is saved, they are always saved. The plain truth is, ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED! Some people will comment that they were once a Christian, but quit being one. Then they weren't Christians to begin with!
"...I say then, Hath God cast away his people?..." -Romans 11:1
The moment you call upon Jesus Christ to take you to heaven when you die, you are SAVED. Did you have to do anything to obtain such a wonderful blessing from The Lord? (Besides call upon Him.) No! So, is their any difference to say that you can lose your Eternal Security if you do something wrong? No! You can commit some horrible sins as a Christian, and still hold on to your Salvation! That doesn't mean, though, a Christian can get away with sinning.
"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" -John 11:26
Would Satan do such a thing as this nonsense? Satan knows he's going to burn in Hell for ever. So what does he concur? He tries his hardest to deceive BILLIONS of people in going to Hell with him! He'll do ANYTHING to make a lost soul stay lost from Jesus Christ! When you were once lost and going to hell, Satan was your father! But when you received God's wonderful gift for Salvation, you became a child of God! Did Satan give up? No! He still tried to lure your new soul into temptation away from your Heavenly Father! Satan doesn't GIVE UP! So why would God GIVE UP on His OWN CHILDREN?! He won't! God made a promise to NEVER leave his children whether they be good or bad NO MATTER WHAT!
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." -John10:28
So many people refuse to accept the fact, in order to get saved, all they have to do is put their faith in Jesus Christ. Why? People generally have a hard time to believe in something they can't use their five senses on. So these pseudo cults come up with man made traditions telling people if they follow this religion they'll be guaranteed Eternal Security! Such as, getting baptized, living a sinless life, going to Purgatory, speaking in tongues to prove your saved, being slain in the spirit, and all whole bunch of other gimmicks! This is works! Not Faith! This way is Hell's way! Faith lead to the path of God's way! You DON'T have to do works to KEEP your salvation! It's by FAITH your saved into God's kingdom!
"Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works. This is completely antithetical to salvation by grace. We are saved because of Christ's merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God's Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is equal to saying that Jesus' death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. Jesus' death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins - past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21)."
Resource
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" -Titus 3:5
When your born into the world, that was your physical birth. When you obtained Salvation through Jesus Christ, (Got saved) that was your SPIRITUAL birth. I ask you this simple question, "How can you unborn yourself?" You can't! It's IMPOSSIBLE to do such a thing! To think G
by hong kong phooey on December 14th, 2011
You can't! It's IMPOSSIBLE to do such a thing! To think God will unborn your spirit and send you to hell after you've accepted Christ as your own personal Savior, is complete LIES and HERESY! So why do so many Christian's think they can lose their Salvation? They are doctrinally mislead to believing Satan's LIES! Once you've accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior to take you to Heaven when you die, you are 110 percent, with out a doubt--SAVED! It was your spiritual birth and no man can take that birth (Salvation) away from you!
"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" -John 11:26
If anyone tells you that you can lose your salvation, they are teaching HERESY! No one wants to admit the plain truth that once your saved, your always saved! If your a Christian that believes you must work for the assurance of your Salvation, YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED! May God speak in your hearts with this message on Salvation, Amen.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." -Romans 11:25
"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." -John 10:9
by hong kong phooey on December 14th, 2011
Sorry Liz.
“Christians being in God's possesion, then how are they going to be snatched away from the Lord's hand???”
On December 12 I said “No one can snatch them out of his hand but they can turn away of their own choosing hence all the warnings.” They are not going to be snatched away.
“ I understand that Christians can wonder away to lose their Salvation as you said, but what do you think about the wondering sheep, will the Good Shepherd not go out and seek His sheep???”
You’re comment kinda reminds me of Luke 15:1-10. If that is what you are referring to, I think that the lost sheep that strayed mentioned in that illustration were potential sheep that never were in the fold rather than ones that were already Christians. They still had to repent of their own free will. The same principle would apply to those in the fold that strayed as well though. If they don’t want to repent or be found then they will not repent or be found. Jesus does try to help them but he does not make them come back.
(Galatians 6:1-2) Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, YOU who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness, as you each keep an eye on yourself, for fear you also may be tempted. 2 Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.
(Ephesians 4:8) Wherefore he says: “When he ascended on high he carried away captives; he gave gifts [in] men.”
(Psalm 68:18) You have ascended on high; You have carried away captives; You have taken gifts in the form of men, Yes, even the stubborn ones, to reside [among them], O Jah God.
Also see Matthew 18:12-14.
Rather than once saved always saved, Christians are actually more accountable than those that never knew right from wrong.
(1 Corinthians 5:9-13) In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
(2 Peter 2:20-22) Certainly if, after having escaped from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, the final conditions have become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it accurately to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 The saying of the true proverb has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”
(James 4:17) Therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.
(John 9:41) Jesus said to them: “If YOU were blind, YOU would have no sin. But now YOU say, ‘We see.’ YOUR sin remains.”
(John 15:22) If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
by Texasescimo on December 14th, 2011
"Anyways, what does Revelation 20:7-9 have to do with a Christian losing his/her Salvation?"
Rev 20:7-9 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them
It is my understanding that the thousand year reign of Christ is after Armageddon and that most “Christian” religions believe that as well. With that in mind I want to kind of address it in the sense of those that believe in the rapture. I’ve heard some say that after the rapture that at some point they will be put back on earth for a thousand years. (I’ve also heard some say that heaven is going to be on earth.) If the wicked had destroyed each other and/or been destroyed by God during or shortly after the rapture and then only the saved come back to earth or are on the heavenly earth, then it would be assumed that the ones that get misled by Satan at this time had been saved at one time.
by Texasescimo on December 14th, 2011
Sorry HKP, we must have been typing at the same time. Have you read the scriptures in my post?
Have you read the context of Romans 11?
(Romans 11:17-26) However, if some of the branches were broken off but you, although being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became a sharer of the olive’s root of fatness, 18 do not be exulting over the branches. If, though, you are exulting over them, it is not you that bear the root, but the root [bears] you. 19 You will say, then: “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 All right! For [their] lack of faith they were broken off, but you are standing by faith. Quit having lofty ideas, but be in fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See, therefore, God’s kindness and severity. Toward those who fell there is severity, but toward you there is God’s kindness, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise, you also will be lopped off. 23 They also, if they do not remain in their lack of faith, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree that is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into the garden olive tree, how much rather will these who are natural be grafted into their own olive tree! 25 For I do not want YOU, brothers, to be ignorant of this sacred secret, in order for YOU not to be discreet in your own eyes: that a dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, 26 and IN THIS MANNER all Israel will be saved. Just as it is written: “The deliverer will come out of Zion and turn away ungodly practices from Jacob.
by Texasescimo on December 14th, 2011
Hi honk kong phooey, in Titus 3:5 and Romans 11:25, the whole intention was never to be saved by works. If you read Ephesians 2:10, the good works were already given by God for Christians to carry on with God's will of righteousness, and not an unrighteous life...
Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."
Notice that "God prepared beforehand." The words here are "prepared," not "unprepared."
by Liz on December 14th, 2011
hong kong phooey, you also brought up John 10:29, Hebrews 13:5 and Romans 11:1 that says that God will never forsake His children by going into the gate of the Good Shepherd. But rather, don't you think that Christians are forsaking Jesus if their not doing His will which is to become Christ-like???
1 John 2:28 "Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming."
How are Christians saved by continuing to live a sinful life??? 1 2:28 says that Christians should not shrink away because then they will be put to shame. Do a research on the word "shame" in the Greek to know that the word means "disgrace."
Let's look in Webster's dictionary to see how the word "disgrace" is defined...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disgrace
1archaic : to humiliate by a superior showing
2: to be a source of shame to
3: to cause to lose favor or standing
by Liz on December 14th, 2011
hong kong phooey, you wrote: "On the contrary, John 3:16 reads that once a believer is saved, they are always saved. The plain truth is, ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED! Some people will comment that they were once a Christian, but quit being one. Then they weren't Christians to begin with!"
But how do you know when a Christian is really a Christian if they continue to sin??? According to Scripture, if Christians can't stop sinning, then they have never repented in the first place.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,"
In Ephesians 1:13, John 11:26, is it just about believing in Jesus that will get people saved??? That's what I was asking Tex according to John 3:16-18.
Here you wrote: "We are saved because of Christ's merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God's Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is equal to saying that Jesus' death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins." And - "Jesus' death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins - past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).""
You better take a look at Hebrews 6:4-6...
Hebrews 6:4-6 "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame."
If Christians remain in sin and have not repented when they first received Christ as their Lord & Savior, they are just putting Him to shame, and we know how Christ will reward each and everyone according to what they have done. - Revelation 22:12
by Liz on December 14th, 2011
Hi Tex, I actually do believe in the Rapture, but Revelation 20:7-9 does not have anything to do with Christians losing their Salvation compared to the Bible passages that you posted in your original response which I do agree that those Bible passages do dismantle a man-made concept of accepting that it's okay to live an unrighteous life and still be saved. :)
I'm just calling it how it is according to Scripture, rather than using an opinion because we all know what it means to be Christ-like.
Here you wrote: "On December 12 I said “No one can snatch them out of his hand but they can turn away of their own choosing hence all the warnings.” They are not going to be snatched away."
Scripture tells us that the sheep cannot be snatched away and this what hong kong phooey believes since he thinks it's just about believing in Christ, that's why I had brought up John 3:16-18 that whoever believes in Jesus has eternal life.
I also asked going to Christians being in God's possesion about the wondering sheep, Scripture says that the Good Shepherd will go out and seek for His sheep, that's how much He cares for them if they wander away, rather than saying as you said: "Jesus does not make them come back." - When the Good Shepherd is "seeking" to begin with.
Galatians 6:1-2, Ephesians 4:8, Matthew 18:12-14, 1 Corinthians 5:9-13, 2 Peter 2:20-22, James 4:17, John 9:41, John 15:22 and especially 68:18 from the Old Testament do not have any resemblance with being saved by grace, as the 100 sheep were in the herd of the Good Shepherd, so I'm sure in the Parable of the lost sheep, symbolically the 100 sheep were believers.
Most Baptists that support 'Once Saved Always Saved will say that there is no condemnation to all those who believe.
Romans 16:27-33 "When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” 29 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household."
Here in Romans 16:27-33, the guardsmen are asking what must they do to be saved, as Paul and Silas gave them the answer in Verse 31. That's why I'm asking you if it's only about believing in Jesus that will get Christians saved when John 3:16-18 is mentioned.
by Liz on December 14th, 2011
Hi Tex, just checking back in this thread. When I wrote 68:18, I meant to write Psalm 68:18, excuse my writing, but sometimes I'm in a hurry that I forget to edit my comments. :)
by Liz on December 15th, 2011