Who's your favorite Super Hero & Super Villian?

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• WOOO Batman!!

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  by Darkling on August 1st, 2007

• Batman is awesome! But I was just thinking the other day about how people say "batman" doesn't need superpowers"...but when you really think about it compared to what is really plausible..he is a superhero. No one could develop their mind, body, skills and be so perfect and knowledgeable in so many areas, take the beatings he takes and do and have all he has. Of course it's a comic, but I was just thinking that and figured I would ramble on about it.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on July 27th, 2009

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• iron man a villain? Well in some situations like in Civil War he might be considered a villian by some but his overall moral position in the marvel universe is still a good guy..nuts to bolts, I would say wolverine is actually more of a villain than hero when you look at both characters comparitively over the length of their existence.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on July 27th, 2009

• dude, any one on the other side from Captain America is the villain
  look at the things he's done, the armor wars, civil war, how he screwed over war machine, his participation in the Illuminati (super villainy if ever there was any [the prof manipulated minds, sub mariner was a villain once, black bolt is a dictator, dr. strange has done deals with demons and mr fantastic is a soulless scientist])
  as for wolverine, most of the things he's done have been purely reactionary, don't start none, there won't be none. and i hate this retconish stunt where they say he was bad before getting the adamantium, all through his run as an x-man he has exhibited a nobleness of spirit rarely seen in the modern world, to say that he was completely different before the bonding process makes no sense and seems more like some stupid stunt by a hack writer to lazy to come up with something better.

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  by zwatcher on July 29th, 2009

• I'm familiar with both characters as well and all I'm saying is, the stories vary by writer, but all Iconic heroes and villains have a default setting. The stories of characters have spanned so many years, so many social, political and economical decades that you'd probably be hard pressed in this day and age to find a Hero character that hasn't at least once strayed from the good path at least once. Heroes have become more gritty and different as comics have matured and the sensibilities of cultures and society itself have changed since the golden years of comics.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on July 31st, 2009

• And yeah to those familiar with the comics such a debate could accur such as now as to whether a Hero is really a good guy based on the cumulative weight of his actions throughout the many thousands of stories he/she were in, BUT to the general populace Superman will always be a good guy and the Green Goblin will always be a bad guy and so on and so on. Sure any character may fall off the horse and some villains may turn a new leaf but every iconic hero or villain has a standard default good or bad guy role.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on July 31st, 2009

• Especially those older than the 70's in their creation. Both woverine and iron man are by default Heroes not villains. Sure when comparing wolverine to iron man as to who might be more bad iron man might be more bad than wolverine, that's a matter of opinion I think but to compare wolverine as a hero against Iron Man being a villain? I don't see it...Iron Man will always be considered a Hero as far as Marvel character rosters go

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  by Occams Electric Razor on July 31st, 2009

• but I do have to say, if you are really as versed in x-men as you seem to be, you would be familiar with Barry Windsor Smith's Weapon X storyline and get a glimpse of wolverine indeed not being a very upstanding guy and his reasons for getting the bonding done...by his own choosing partly. To discard that means you can choose to ignore any part of a characters history and then I might as well argue that as wolverine the character became more and more popular Marvel decided to goody him up a bit making him more of a victim of circumstance than a man who really didnt care about anything or anyone in a good guy/hero sense until he joined the x-men

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  by Occams Electric Razor on July 31st, 2009

• I think the whole James Howlett and that business as far as his origins wiped out many years of a chracter who was much more interesting when he didn't know his past. I though part of the charm of wolverine was that he was not a very good man, was a villain in many ways but because of his mind wipe he was finding his way to redemption with a clean start of sorts. His past was bad and the one thing he sought (his memeories) were the very thing that would destroy him.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on July 31st, 2009

• i always saw wolvie as a "Rough edged" good guy like dirty harry or detective john McClain (die hard)
  dispite his "loner/ push others away" act he has always been the one you could depend on, the mentor, the old warrior.
  while Iron man has always been the guy you can't trust, the guy keeping secrets, lying to his friends, using people to get what he wants. remember when he tricked james rhodes into believing he died, how about the time he nearly killed several heroes because they wore armor based on his tech, including one he built for them.
  as far back as i remember i have never trusted tony stark, Charles xavier or reed richards, i always felt something sinister about them and look, i was right.

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  by zwatcher on August 1st, 2009

• reading wolverines early books, especially weapon x and the first runs of the wolverine book you will see wolverine is NOT a very good guy at all. Many times the xmen used him as a way to get things done outside of the boundaries of goodness that the xmen were restricted to. But again xavier, richards, stark have all done scrupulous things but if you asked marvel comics to make 2 posters, one with bad guys and one with good guys, iron man, reed richards, charles xavier and wolverine would all be on the good guy poster.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on August 2nd, 2009

• as I said before, writers take liberties with characters...there's only so many stories you can write without blurring the lines and throwing some twists etc. but in the end marvel has set in stone what characters are ultimately good and bad and nothing will change that.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on August 2nd, 2009

• and if you ask a satan worshiper to make a poster of who they look up to, guess who's going to star in it.
  as for early wolverine, i'm talking x-men all the way back to the second (really third) teams creation. as well as "pryde of the x-men"
  as for set in stone good vs evil, what about warpath, who started out as a hellion, or the executioner, who gave his life for thor, or Gamora who was once a minion of thanos

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  by zwatcher on August 2nd, 2009

• whats satan got to do with comic books? MArvel creted characters they decide ultimately who is good or evil but though good and bad characters might switch cides for awhile they always go back to their default good or bad in the end. There may be the occasional exception, in my opinion warpath too will always be considered a goodguy by marvel's standards.
  Look at the silver surfer...is he ultimately a good guy or bad guy? HE too had a badguy origin in a sense.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on August 3rd, 2009

• definately a bad guy, just ask the survivors of the millions of worlds he fed to galactus.

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  by zwatcher on August 3rd, 2009

• but my point about ironman is that dispite the occasional pouts of goodness, he has consistently been a bad person, wether it's alcoholisms, lying to his friends, betraying those who trust him and attempted world domination he has always been a classic "Business man" first hero second

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  by zwatcher on August 3rd, 2009

• as for the Satan analogy, i meant it's all in prospective of of the people asked, sure marvel believes their heroes are heroes, that doesn't make it so.
  there are those who believe all police are flawless paragons of virtue and service, but they still commit crimes of their own

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  by zwatcher on August 3rd, 2009

• well i can see your point of view as far as how one might see certain heroes as villains based on their actions, but you and I don't run marvel and marvel decides who's good and bad, so yeah I can see where you are coming from and you are right to an extent...there's many a hero that has done bad stuff more than once...my point was there's the fan's opinions and then there's marvel's. Thanks for the debate though, it was an interesting pov.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on August 3rd, 2009

• your welcome, it's fun to hear other peoples pov on issues like this.
  so, what do you think of the black ultimate nick fury?

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  by zwatcher on August 3rd, 2009

• Well it's known he's modeled after Samuel Jackson so they can lead into the movie storylines as they gear up for the Avengers Movie with more crossovers and cameos in upcoming superhero fliks. Myself, I could care less about Nick Fury. Unfortunately he's always seemed like a filler character outside of his own books..so to keep up now he gets some superpowers too! You have to admit though, as far as the movies go samuel L. Jackson is a hell of a lot cooler than David Hasselhoff.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on August 3rd, 2009

• o.k. you have a VERY GOOD POINT there (and i am just going to pretend that movie never happened)
  but i want to see an avengers movie, not ultimate avengers
  thats like wining tickets to an eagles concert and finding out when you get there that it's a backstreet boys concert instead.
  as for nick, he should be played by someone like Daniel Craig (quantum of solace) or matt damon (jason bourne)

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  by zwatcher on August 4th, 2009

• Yeah I agree they should definitely do an Avengers, not Ultimate Avengers movie but you know how hollywood is, cash in on the characters who have already done successful films, keep the formula kind of crap.
  I could name quite a few good options for Fury, Daniel Craig being a personal pick as well...I like Damon but he just never struck me as an action much less superhero character even after doing Bourne. But like I said, Fury is so insignificant to me I could care less who plays him really.

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  by Occams Electric Razor on August 4th, 2009

• i have a lot of respect for classic fury because here is a guy who doesn't have any super powers, who is just his job as well as he can while dealing with government red tape, double agents, superhumans and almost weekly alien invasions. i see him as part dirty harry part John McClain and part 007.
  admittedly he is a side character to me as well, seen mostly as he interacts with spider man, the Fan' four or iron traitor. but you got to have the side characters or it's a lonely, empty story line.

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  by zwatcher on August 5th, 2009

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