They have first-hand sensory evidence of dreams. And, if I'm not mistaken, dreams CAN be proven through brainwave scans.

We believe in dreams as we actually see them. There is ZERO evidence for god. ZERO!!!

Dreams are not "fake". They are tangible chemical-sensory experiences, extremely similar to memories during the conscious state. Lady Alathia is exactly correct, and the physiology behind dreams is based on empirical biochemical information.

This is a stupid argument. This is just nonsense and a desperate attempt to try to prove something. I can observe a dream but can't observe God. You believe that God makes your dreams and I do not. I see no need to prove that I dream and know I have them because we have all agreed on what dreams are.. Since God nor dreams can be proved. What is your point?

To answer your last question, atheists and theists believe that dreams exist so it doesn't matter who you ask regarding the existence of dreams. I can only wonder what percent of the world's population believes in the existence of dreams. A modest estimate would probably be very close to 100% among sane humans, would that be about right? "Thank you for participating in this brief survey. Do you believe that you or others have had dreams at some point in life? Yes? Okay, now be serious. Are you absolutely certain? Yes? Would you put your life on the line with your certainty that someone somewhere actually had a dream before? Yes? Uhhh, well hey thanks for your time." Sound a little ridiculous?

The difficulty for most of us in the modern world is that the old-fashioned idea of God has become incredible or implausible. When we look through our telescopes and microscopes, or when we just look at nature, we have a problem. Somehow the idea of God we get from the holy scriptures doesn't seem to fit the world around us, just as you wouldn't ascribe a composition by the Beatles to The Stones. The style of God venerated in the church, mosque, or synagogue seems completely different from the style of the natural universe. It's hard to conceive of the author of one as the author of the other.

I'm an atheist and I disagree with your assumptions. I believe that underneath my superficial self, which pays attention to this and that, there is another self more really us than I. And the more you become aware of the unknown self -- if you become aware of it -- the more you realize that it is inseparably connected with everything else that is. You are a function of this total galaxy, bounded by the Milky Way, and this galaxy is a function of all other galaxies. You are that vast thing that you see far, far off with great telescopes. You look and look, and one day you are going to wake up and say, "Why, that's me!" And in knowing that, you know that you never die. You are the eternal thing that comes and goes that appears -- now as Denis Tower, now as Mary Smith, now as Betty Brown -- and so it goes, forever and ever and ever.

What's the evidence for god? From reading the above, you say "our concious intelligence" is evidence enough. Okay - but for which god? Allah? Ahura Mazda? The Greek Pantheon? Roman Pantheon? Odin? Loki? Dianna? Hern? Sol? Ra? Shiva? Kali? Mithra? Krishna? The list runs into several hundred thousand. However can you tell, apart from "I believe it is THIS one?" You need a LOT more than that, since different believers will give the same answer as evidence for a completely different god. Dreams can be detected using various instruments measuring brain activity. God, gods, goddesses can't be detected or measured in any objective way.

Where in God's Left testicle did you come up with this load? In what way are atheists supposed to believe in dreams? But PLEASE, I BEG of you... learn some English. Atheism is a disbelief in god. Nothing else. Theoretically an atheist can still believe in the tooth fairy is he wants - so long as he doesn't believe in the tooth fairy as a god. Got that? It simple really. Atheist - doesn't believe in god but can believe in anything else he wants. He might be stupid and inconsistent just like theists - but still and atheist.

The real question is what's your problem with atheists and atheism, and why do you ask so many questions about it? If you're so curious, why don't you read a book about it? Maybe you're afraid it might appeal to you...

But I *don't* believe dreams are real! I experience them, but that doesn't mean that I believe they are physical reality. I wasn't really chasing purple butterflies all night last night. It was just a vision I was having while I was asleep. Similarly I don't think angels, demons, or gods are real, even though people claim to have seen or experienced them (or aliens, ghosts, etc). These are individual perceptions, and perceptions can be fooled. Like when you're dreaming, in fact. Entirely consistent.

Except... dreams can be proven... because they scientifically occur...

dreams can be proven, esp through measuring brain activity during REM(random eye movement) sleep. God cannot be proven by logical, or realiztic means.

dreams are as real as your imagination.

Just to open, whoever said Atheists believe in dreams? For all you know, there could be tons of Atheists out there who believe in dreams, and loads of other "Illogical" things too, for that matter. The only thing you can safely presume by knowing that they're an Atheist is that they don't believe in God. Now, to begin addressing the other bit of your question... You're making (at least) one huge leap here that turns your whole argument into so much nonsense: Namely, you're disregarding the issue of what Atheists believe dreams to be, as opposed to what Theists believe God to be. Speaking as an "Atheist" (or more specifically, an Agnostic who SO FAR believes there is no God), I believe dreams to be a neurological phenomenon, which occurs while I sleep, and results in me waking up with the memory that I've seen or done something. And in the context of what I believe them to be, dreams are %100 provable: An EEG scan can prove that my brain showed a specific type of activity during my R.E.M. sleep cycle, and my own memory serves as evidence that I remember seeing or doing something. I myself make no presumptions that there is a %100 certainty of anyone else besides me having ever had a dream in their life. For all I know, they could be lying, and I could be the only one who actually has dreams. But their testimony, coupled with the fact that the same brain activity can be seen on their EEG scans, indicates (doesn't prove, *Indicates*) to me that they have dreams the same way as I do. I'm sure some Atheists believe differently than I do on the matter, but that's what I believe. Atheists, or at least this particular "Atheist", believes dreams (or just about anything, for that matter) to be "Real" only in as much as my own experience indicates them to be. On the other hand, the vast majority of Theists believe God to be an omnipotent entity presiding over the creation, destruction, and function of existence, and will ultimately judge mankind and sort us each into "Heaven" or "Hell" (or the equivalent) based on whether we've been "Good" or "Bad". Theism makes a drastically larger "Leap of Faith" in its thinking, justifying much more elaborate and detailed beliefs on a basis of much less evidence. The difference between Theistic belief in God and my "Atheistic" belief in dreams is this: - I (The "Atheist") start out with a question; "Do I believe that dreams real, and if so, can I see enough proof in what I know already to justify that belief. And if I can't, I adapt my belief on dreams accordingly. - While you (The Theist) start out with a statement: "God is real. Now I'm going to prove it". And if you can't... You just keep on denying it.

TAO, Oneirology, look it up.

My thoughts are that Atheists only exist because of people like you. Hear me out, anon. Theism inspires people to totally disregard the views of others. To kill those who refuse to convert. To engage in all sorts of bad behavior, all justified by invoking His name. That sort of thing will naturally create a group who not only doesn't play along (Agnostics like me) but who actively oppose you. Atheists refuse to believe because you believe enough for at least two people. Atheists refuse to believe because Theists have a bad history. Atheists refuse to believe because Theists (at least the outspoken ones like you) are intolerant, pushy, loud-mouthed people who use unsound logic and false information that you call 'facts'.

Ouch, you got docked a lot of points for this sucker! Gave two back, but it's all I can do. You probably should have thought this one out a little more; dreams can be scientifically proven, plus we all have and remember them.

Atheist do not believe in gods for many reasons not just scientific reasons, we are individuals. And don't twist words, as an Atheist I have dreams, I don't believe I have dreams, I know I have dreams. Just as I know they are not real, hence why they are called dreams. Its a bit like god speaking in your head, you know you have them, but they are not real, hence why they are just in your head.

And, of course, this you know because you are the self-appointed spokesperson for all the Atheists, right? What a pompous ass!

What an excellent analogy! Dreams are fantasies that exist solely in the mind, just like god.

you're entering a murky field of epistomology here... . first you'll have to clarify what you mean. when you say "believe in dreams", do you mean the belief that you actually had a dream, but not that the dream was real (which is a different quagmire altogether). . or are you referring to WHAT you dreamed rather than IF you dreamed...

Okay, this is a stupid question for man reasons, the first of which is that dreams don't need to be proven because (a) we experience them, and (b) because they are fake, if they were real, then it would be reality, not dreams. Second... dreams have been studied for a long time and science has so far concluded that it has to do with REM... so, um, technically there already is some scientific explanation for dreams love.