He represented all humanity, that is why he was cast out of the garden of Eden, but if you refer with punishment that God allowed death and hunger, it was not a punishment, it is in human nature and God with is infinite love had given Adam and Eve immortality, Immunity and other gifts. But they were that, gifts not in human nature.

I agreed with Servorum Dei, but adding to what was said, I think that these "punishments" arebrought on by us. He shows his love by giving us free will. If he wanted to be a dicator he could have struck us all down dead for one mistake or forced us to follow him (or depending on any relgion you are, its the same situation). Free will is a gift, he allows us to make our own choices and to fail (as well as deal with the neagative and positive effects that come) and will, if you ask him, save you from them. Bad things are going to happen regardless, its just one of those things.

It wasn't. It was a punishment for Adam and Eve and we just got caught in the crossfire. He wasn't very good at punishing and He still isn't if you ask me.

To begin with, you've got a very basic fact wrong. God did not give man free will for the act of sinning (or "missing the mark"). God created man with free will. God asked man to choose to obey, using his free will. When man used his free will and chose not to obey, the consequences of eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, was just that, innocence lost and an awareness of good and evil gained. It says that Adam became ashamed and hid himself from God. Prior to eating of the fruit, Adam had been a pretty carefree fellow. Now that man had the awareness of good and evil, the whole situation changed from mans perspective, and there was simply no going back. This awareness was passed on to all descendants of those first two because of an act of choice, of free will, and the only thing man received from eating of that fruit he had been forewarned about.

Trying not to plagiarize Gmeades, temptation/free will is there not that they were to sin, but that they would lean on Him, who actually walked and talked with Adam and Eve, for the same knowledge that Adam and Eve gained from that original sin would have been gained the right way had Adam and Eve stayed faithful to Jehovah. Herein lies the difference between wordly wisdom and that of the divine. He wants to tell us everything, but we have to be patient, for godliness with contentment is great gain. The ideal scenario is to humble yourself to Him, and He will give you peace, joy, and plenty of wisdom, in time. As to the adamic sin nature, that awareness is passed on, as said before, though all of us have the same sin nature and free will, and we would not have lasted as long as adam or eve, for they had perfect minds, initially devoid of even the smallest bit of corruption, while ours in wrought with filth, from generations of the progressive sin nature.

1st of all, God isn't punishing us, Satan is. 2nd, all the things God opened up for us, birth pains ect, are not punishments for us, they were for Adam and Eve, so when they looked at the pain their heirs had they lived with the knowledge that THEY caused this, it was their curse.

Keysha, I have read most of the responses to your question. I envy their caring and their upstanding in their said beliefs. I must in the nicest way disagree with them. If I may, I would like to shed some light upon the reason why you are asking such a question. You have asked a very good question based upon what you beleive is true. So I hope you dont take anything I am about to write to you the wrong way. The problem of why you would ask such a question is that you believe that you have a "free will". When in fact you do not, nor did Adam and Eve. Most, if not all, Christiandom believes this and it is why most people take if for granted that it is true without studying to see if it actually is. The answers you have been receiving have no scriptural basis. They have given small amounts of scriptural proof of man even having free will, because they too have taken for granted that they even have free will in the first place. I hope that I can provide you sufficient scriptural proof to explain that it is impossible for man to have free will if God is indeed Sovereign. And hopefully it will show you just how "in control" God really is. But first of all let me ask a few questions before we delve into the scriptures for an eye opening experience. Is God perfect? If God is perfect would everything he created be perfect also? If His creation is perfect, then wouldnt Adam and Eve be created perfect also? I, myself, would answer "yes" to all of these questions. Probably not to your suprise either. But my 'yes' to the last question is most likely a totally different 'yes' then yours. Adam and Eve were indeed created perfect, but not in the way you think. I will move forward and paste a copy of a letter I had wrote a certain man so I can save some time and scripture search. (Quote) Dear Sir, My name is Joe. I have read your paper entitled “Does God know who is going to be saved and who isn’t”. It was very interesting, but I do have a few comments on it. First I would like to say that I applaud that you say God is All-Knowing. This is true. I believe this also. In fact, I believe that He is All-Everything. One of these “ALL’s” is Sovereignty. Do you believe God is All-Sovereign? If God is All Sovereign, then he controls (has power over) all things. I think you have approached the said question in your article with a preconceived idea. I say preconceived because most all of Christiandom believes this idea and you have adopted it without sufficient study of the scriptures. In your paper you state: God grants every person on earth the freedom of choice. We call it free will. We can choose to obey God or to rebel against him. This freedom is never revoked. It is always, always, left up to the individual. If you indeed believe that God has total Sovereignty, than it is impossible for man to have “free will”. Upon reading scripture, I conceive that “no one” can thwart God’s control or plan. I used to believe that I had free will. But then I asked myself a simple question. “Is my individual will, whether it be free or not, greater than God’s will”. The answer is NO. And if the answer is no, than my supposed “free will” is not free at all. The answer to my question brought my “free will” down to just a “will”. Believe me dear sir, this was a hard pill to swallow. I am in no way saying that man does not have a choice, or even that he uses his choice. But the very choice we make is according to God’s own Will. To take this even further you say…. The Book of Life is simply the results of that judgment, known only by God, recorded only by God, and seen only by God. And this all happened long before any life ever existed.[embolding Mine] If God knew all this from the beginning (which I agree with) and knows also what pertains to the end (again which I agree with), then He MUST control all that is in between also. There is a story in scripture that conveys what I am talking about. Hopefully this might tickle your spiritual senses. Remember the dreams that Joseph had? Gen 37:6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed: Gen 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf. Gen 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words. Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? These dreams enraged his brothers and even his own father questioned him on it. I am aware that the story of Joseph goes much much deeper in a spiritual light, but it explains what I am saying very well. Now who gave Joseph these dreams? God did. Now if God gave him the dream, then its consummation MUST come to pass. Did Joseph brothers have a free will choice not to sell him to the Ishmaelites. You may think they did, but they didn’t. God is not a liar. He does nothing in vain (even His given dreams). God must bring Joseph’s brothers and even his own father to bow to him and cause Joseph to have dominion over them. After all their supposed “free will” choices they could make or free thoughts that they may have thought they had, nonetheless this is the end of what happened and Joseph shows them and us who is actually in control…. Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. What is the “it” that God meant unto good? The “it” is the “ye thought evil against me”. God had complete control over what happened. He causes everything (even their evil thoughts ) to happen according to his own will, not anybody’s supposed “free will”. The idea of “free will” is not in the scriptures, nor do the scriptures even teach such a thing. Free will is an invention of Christiandom to explain why some people go to heaven and and some, albeit MOST, of humanity goes to hell. Christiandom’s answer to it all is because they “freely” chose to go to heaven or hell. Man is not free to choose anything. Here is another example that hits close to home, for its proof spans just a few hours rather than years as the story of Joseph. I will try my best put mans free choice in it. Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall (freely choose to) be offended because of me this night: ( I know what you are going to choose) for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall (freely choose to be offended and) be scattered abroad. Mat 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. Mat 26:33 Peter answered (with his totally in control "free will") and said unto him , Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I (freely choose to) never be offended. Well it doesn’t work because later he chose exactly what "God's will" wanted him choose. God had to bring it about because he inspired it to be “written” years earlier. Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. Once again God has control over everything. Too many people think that what happened from creation until now goes something like this. God set forth a perfect plan. Man chose with his “free will” to go against God’s perfect plan. So God creates “another” plan to fix the first one because man had messed it up. And who ever believes in this plan will be saved. (or something to that effect) God is perfect, His plan is perfect, and everything that has ever happened from creation till now has been exactly the way He planned it. Yes everything! God’s creation did NOT malfunction. He has control over all of it. Even man’s supposed “free will”. We read that the Pharaoh would not let the Israelites go? Exo 7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go. I am guessing he didn’t let them go because his heart was hardened. Well who hardened his heart? Exo 7:3 And I (God) will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. Exo 7:13 And he (God) hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. Some people think that God just singled the Pharaoh out for this one instance, but this is not the case. He does it to others also. Isa 63:17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Most of Christiandom has taken credit away from God himself by saying that humanity has control of something. God is the cause of everything. And everything is going just the way He wants it to go. People blame other people or satan for the bad things that are happening in the world and take the responsibility away from the one who put the whole thing in motion in the first place. Don’t get me wrong. You are Accountable for your sins but God is Responsible for your sins. Here are a few things that scripture show that God is responsible for and has control over. EARTHQUAKES “You shall be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake…” (Isa. 29:6). “And, behold, there was a great earthquake for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven…” (Matt. 28:2). Etcetera, FLOODS : “And with the blast of Thy [God’s] nostrils the waters were gathered together [Heb: ‘piled up’], the floods stood upright as an heap [Heb: ‘mound, a wave’ as in the tsunami quake which caused a huge wave!], and the depths [Heb: ‘an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water-supply), Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary] were congealed in the heart of the sea” (Exodus 15:8). Sounds pretty much like what God did in the Indian Ocean to destroy the coastal regions of Indonesia, doesn’t it? Theologians refuse to believe that God would purposefully CAUSE the Christmas tsunami, yet it was God who destroyed not just a few hundred thousand with a flood in Indonesia, but destroyed the whole human race (save eight souls) in a worldwide flood: “And, Behold! I [GOD] even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, where in is the breath of life, from under heaven; and everything that is in the earth shall die” (Gen. 6:17). Do people believe that this too was just a “subduction of one of the tectonic plates in the ocean?” Was it really just “a natural release of heat in the atmosphere?” Or was it a work of God to “…destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth…”? (Gen. 6:7). PLAGUES AND DISEASE : “Moreover He will bring upon you all the diseases of Egypt, which you were afraid of and they shall cleave unto you. Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of the law, them will the Lord bring upon you, until you be destroyed” (Deut. 28:60-61) “The LORD shall smite you with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue you until you perish” (Deut. 28:22). POVERTY : “The LORD makes poor…” (I Sam. 2:7). “The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of all” (Prov. 22:2). FAMINE : “Moreover He [God] called for a famine upon the land: He broke the whole staff of bread” (Psalm 105:16). “And I [God] will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from the land…” (Jer. 24:10). AFFLICTIONS : “…the Lord has testified against me, and the Almighty has afflicted [Heb: ‘to make good for nothing’] me” (Ruth 1:21). “And the Lord rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them [Heb: ‘hurt and weakened’]” (II Kings 17:20). THE SWORD : “I [God] will consume them by the sword…” (Jer. 14:12). “I [God] will scatter them also among the heathen, whom neither they nor their father have known: and I will send a sword after them, till I have consumed them” (Jer. 9:16). WAR : “The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is His name” (Ex. 15:3). “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and He that sat upon Him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war” (Rev. 19:11). DESTRUCTION : “Howl! Ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty” (Isa. 13:6). “Alas for the day! For the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come” (Joel 1:15). “PESTILENCE: “And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall DIE of a great pestilence” (Jer. 21:6). “If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people…” (II Chron. 7:13). HAIL : “Behold, tomorrow about this time I will CAUSE it to rain a very grievous hail, such as has not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now” (Ex. 9:18). “I smote you with blasting and with mildew and with hail in all the labors of your hands, yet ye turned not to me, saith the Lord” (Haggai 2:17). ICE, COLD AND FROST : “He casts forth His ice like morsels: who can stand before His cold?” (Psalm 147:17). “He DESTROYED their vines with hail, and their sycamore trees with frost” (Psalm 78:47). KILLING : "And My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless” (Ex. 22:24). “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven… a time to kill…” (Ecc. 3:1 & 3). SLAUGHTER : “And the Lord discomfited them before Israel; and slew them with a great slaughter…” (Joshua 10:10). “For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He has utterly destroyed them, he has delivered them to the slaughter” ( Isa. 34:2). CALAMITY : “I will scatter them as with an east wind before the enemy; I will show them the back, and not the face, in the day of their calamity” (Jer. 18:17). “…and I will bring their calamity from all sides thereof, says the Lord” (Jer. 49:32). WIND : “You break the ships of Tarshish with an east wind…” (Psalm 48:7). “Thus says the Lord; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon… a destroying wind” (Jer. 51:1). GRIEF : “You did say, Woe is me now! For the Lord has added grief to my sorrow; I fainted in my sighing, and I find no rest” (Jer. 45:3). “But though He [God] cause grief, yet will He have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies” (Lam. 3:32). FIRE : “Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven” (Gen. 19:24). “And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them” (Rev. 20:9). FOREST FIRES : “…I will kindle a fire in the forest thereof, and it shall devour all things round about it” (Jer. 21:14). “And say to the forest… I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee…” (Ezek. 20:47). WILD BEASTS : “I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate” (Lev. 26:22). “They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust” (Deut. 32:24). EVIL : “And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow… the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Gen. 2:9). “Out of the mouth of the most High proceeds not evil and good?” (Lam. 3:38). “I will raise up evil against you out of your own house…” (II Sam. 12:11). “…I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction” (Jer. 4:6). “…Hear, O earth; behold, I will bring evil upon this people…” (Jer. 6:19). “…Thus says the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you…” (Jer. 18:11). “…so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until He have destroyed you from off this good land…” (Josh. 23:15) “What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil?” (Job 2:10). “…shall thee be evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it?” (Amos 3:6). Here is another scripture that has been translated in such a way that it is mostly indistinguishable to the reader. Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. After further study of the Hebrew words in this scripture, this is the best translation that I have found. “It is an experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Ecc. 1:13). Most people just read over all the scripture I have stated above and never realize that God indeed causes these things. He brings all these things about for his own purpose and plan, he even predestines his own people. Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him (God) who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Man does NOT choose God. It is God who chooses man. God raises the wicked and the righteous alike. Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Even from birth. Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) [talking of Jacob and Esau] Rom 9:17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Man’s “free will” or “free moral agency” has nothing to do with it. It is all of God. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him (man) that willeth (chooses or uses free will choice), nor of him that runneth (or his works), but of God that showeth mercy. God can control everything because he created everything, he even created evil. Isa. 45:7 “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil” You stated this in your article. Without free will we would be just like a rock or a tree. Well I guess you and I can choose whether to be the rock or the tree now, but it doesn’t matter what we choose sir. Scripture clearly tells us that we are way below even a tree or a rock. We are dust…. Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: We are clay…. Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again? Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. And God can make us (His clay) however He sees fit, whether it be honorable or dishonorable. Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? Man cannot “free will” himself to be either honorable or dishonorable. I have spoken to many who have emailed me or have come to my door and have stated that man has free will. To date no one has given any scriptures to defend such a position. They can certainly give scriptures defending the fact that man has a “choice” or a “will”, but not one show that man’s choice is “free” from God’s own manipulation (thereby it not being “free” at all). So in a sense you are correct in your thinking that God knows the beginnings and endings of man. But for God to raise a man like Pharaoh (from birth to death) to do the things he did, then punish him for eternity, would be a bit unfair for God to do wouldn’t you think? But that question is a whole other topic that the whole of Christiandom is blind to. If there are indeed scriptures that show that man has free will or for that matter that man chooses Christ rather than Christ choosing them, please show me. I do hope that I have shed some truth on this myth that is parroted about so much that people just take it for granted as fact instead of studying to see if it is true or not. There are many other myths within the teachings of Christiandom, but I am not here to waist you time. I do hope you ponder on what I have stated, because it may lead you to other ponderings of Gods perfect plan. May Christ be with you Joe (End Quote) I hope this allows you to see man's will in a different light Keysha. There are so many confessing Christians out there that havent even read the Bible and it is sad. Most of these Christians believe whoever is speaking over the pulpit and dont give anything a second thought. All truth must be studied. Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so. For instance, most Christians will say that if Adam and Eve didnt eat the fruit we would all be in paradise. But none ever studied what they actually ate. They ate from the Tree of Knoledge of GOOD and evil. So if they didnt eat of it they wouldnt even know what GOOD was. Paradise wouldnt be worth much unless we knew how good paradise is. God set forth a perfect plan and it is going forth perfectly without a glitch. Most Christians think that God and Satan are in some great struggle. The truth is that God controls every aspect of satan. I can give many scriptures stating that satan can NOT do anything without permission from God first. In fact there are many many truths in scripture that God has purposely HIDDEN from man. I could say much much more but I do not want to waist too much of your time. Take care and keep studying. God Bless Joe

Actually, God is not punishing anyone. In the beginning God created everything according to Principles. Just like we have the principles of mathematics. One of the principles was karma. Karma says that good and evil both create a result. Science says that for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Basically, same law. That being said, we have karma to pay from several directions. First, yes, the sin of Adam and Eve (Christians call it the original sin that everyone is born with.) Then, there is the sin of our ancestry. We have to pay the karma for our ancestors. It's just inherited debt the same as if your parent dies owing money you are expected to pay it off. Next is the sins of the world, especially our generation. If we allow evil to rule without standing up to it, we have to pay for it. The holocaust was a prime example of this. We should have stopped that monster in the beginning but we chose to put our heads in the sand. Neville Chamberlain was a perfect example. And, then, there are our own sins. Gotta pay for what you do. Like it or not. He did give us guidelines. And, a conscience.

because we deserve it....we r also doing the same sin (am not cosidering it s a sin!!!)

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

I guess that's really the key, isn't it: "If God is so just and loving." . It's a big if.

The Big G can hold a grudge like no one else can

God, as I believe does not continue to punish us for the sins of Adam and Eve. In Islam a child is not responsible for the sins of their father. Ibrahim.. ( Abraham ) was not punished for the fact that his father made idols, and worshiped them. There is a story of Ibrahim going into the temple with the idols and destroying all but the biggest one. When asked who had done it, he pointed at the largest and said.. it was he.... We do not pay for the sins of our fathers nor our mothers. If your mother murders someone, should you too then go to jail? My faith is one of logic... and I do not believe that I pay for the sins of my ancestors.