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Is Muhhamed's claim to be a descendant of Abraham through son Ishamael able to be traced , lineage? what is KNOWN of Muhammed....?and if he could not write, who did? just asking..

By thatsJustme Asked Apr 27 2008 8:57PM
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Top Answer out of 6

by singwell-is off researching a lot on May 6, 2008 at 6:11 am Permalink

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The general belief of genealogists (who are the experts in this field, and have taken many many descents back as far as they can go) is this:
Ancestry of the Prophet Muhammad
The Prophet Muhammad's ancestry is traced back to Adnan around 100 BC. This is probably myth.
Beyond that, this attempt to link Adnan to the Biblical Abraham is obvious mythology. Apart from anything else, even if Abraham existed, he would have lived something like 2300 BC.

http://humphrysfamilytree.com/Islam/index.html
The amount of written literature around in the ARabian peninsula at the time of Muhammad was negligible (one of the major reasons why the Quran is held by Muslims to be so special- it comes from a time when the Arabs had not a lot of written material), so, at best you would only have a verbal genealogy. That is not to say that verbal genealogies cannot be accurate- on the contrary, many of the Welsh and Irish oral genealogies from a similar period are held to be accurate for many generations before they descend into political statements (everyone goes back to Noah, or Adam or to a prominent person in history).

The descent below for Mohammad from Adam is in this vein. It may be accurate for a number of generations, and, like all human genealogies, will end up at Adam, but proof for the descent is lacking, and there are clearly many generations missing)


Muhammad's pure descent from Adam
Sirat p. 3
Muhammad was the son of Abdallah, b. Abdul-Muttalib, b. Hisham, b. Abdu Manaf, b. Qusayy, b. Kilab, b. Murra, b. Kab, b. Luayy, b. Ghalib, b. Fihr, b. Malik, b. al-Nadr, b. Kinana, b. Khuzayma, b. Mudrika, b. Ilyas, b. Mudar, b. Nizar, b. Maadd, b. Adnan, b. Udd, b. Muqawwam, b. Hanur, b. Tayrah, b. Yarub, b. Yashjub, b. Nabit, b. Ismail, b. Ibrahim, b. Tarih, b. Nahur, b. Sarugh, b. Rau, b. Falikh, b. Aybar, b. Shalikh, b. Arfakhshadh, b. Sam, b. Nuh, b. Lamk, b. Mattushalakh, b. Akhnukh (prophet Idris?), b. Yard, b. Mahlil, b. Qaynan, b. Yanish, b. Shith, b. Adam.

Note that this descent does not go through Abraham, however.

The Quran does not list a genealogy of Muhammad to show how he is descended from Abraham, although it more than implies that the Arabs are descended from Abraham through Ishmael. This seems to have been something that came from the teachings of Muhammad alone, as it seems not to have been an Arabic belief before his time. I found this on one site:


According to at least one Muslim writer, in pre-Islamic times Ishmael was never mentioned as the father of the Arabs. In his rebuttal to Dr. Robert A. Morey's book Islamic Invasion, W. Aliyyuddin Shareef, is honest enough to admit:

"In pre-Islamic times Ishmael was never mentioned as the Father of the Arabs." (Shareef, In response to Robert Morey's Islamic Invasion, pp.3-4)

Is Muhammad's belief that the Arabs are descendants of Abraham justified? they are definitely Semites by language and culture, but is there proof of descent from Ishmael?
No.
The same site records:
There is also debate over whether Ishmael ever migrated to Mecca, seeing that the Holy Bible clearly denies that Ishmael ever settled in Arabia. The Holy Bible states that Ishmael and his mother settled in Paran near southern Palestine in northeastern Sinai. The proof that Paran is located in the region of Sinai, and not in Mecca, comes from the Holy Bible:

"And the children of Israel took their journeys out of the wilderness of Sinai; and the cloud (of God) rested in the wilderness of Paran." Numbers 10:12

"And afterward the people (Israelites) removed from Hazeroth, and pitched in the wilderness of Paran." Numbers 12:16

"And Moses by the commandment of the Lord sent them from the wilderness of Paran... And they went and came to Moses, and to Aaron, and to all the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the wilderness of Paran, to Kadesh..." Numbers 13:3, 26

"These be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side of Jordan in the wilderness, in the plain over against the Red sea, between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Dizahab." Deuteronomy 1:1

The preceding verses clearly demonstrate that Paran could not possibly be Mecca but a locale near Sinai, since Moses and the Israelites never settled in that part of Arabia.
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If Ishmael was never in Mecca, but around the Sinai peninsula, then....
Moreover, we can know for sure that Abraham was never in Mecca because his story is recorded accurately in the Old Testament, up to 1000 years before the Quran existed, and his journey can be traced by the mention of the wells and other sites within the Old Testament text. He came from Mesopotamia, settled in Canaan (modern Israel) and there he stayed (with a small excursion along known trade routes, to Egypt, and back again). He died and was buried in Machpelah in Israel, alongside his wife, Sara, and his heir, Isaac. Isaac's heir, Jacob is also buried in the same tomb.Muslims know this because they have built a mosque over the top of the tomb (to stop the Jews from being able to worship at their ancestor's grave).
Had Abraham gone with Ishmael to Mecca (which is right off the known trade routes from Israel anyway. It might seem close on a map, but trade routes were fixed and followed wells. There were no wells through the almost impenatrable Arabian desert to Mecca), why, then, would he have buried his wife in Israel, and then returned (as an extremely old man) to be buried beside Sara by Isaac, who then joined his parents in the grave when his time came.
Where is Ishmael's burial place? No where to be found. WHen he was made to leave with his mother, the slave girl Hagar, they went and did not return. Ishmael was no doubt loved by his father and was not abandoned by God, but Ishmael was not the heir. (see Genesis 17: "As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her." Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, "W ill a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?" And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!" Then God said, "YES, BUT YOUR WIFE SARAH WILL BEAR YOU A SON, AND YOU WILL CALL HIM ISAAC. I WILL ESTABLISH MY COVENANT WITH HIM AS AN EVERLASTING COVENANT FOR HIS DESCENDANTS AFTER HIM. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. BUT MY COVENANT I WILL ESTABLISH WITH ISAAC, WHOM SARAH WILL BEAR TO YOU BY THIS TIME NEXT YEAR." When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him. Genesis 17:1-22 )
The heir, Isaac, was buried beside the father.
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What is known of Muhammad? Outside of what information is given in the Quran, nothing. No outside references from the time refer to him. We can deduce his approximate birth year c 570 AD, in Mecca, from the Quran and the Hadith, and we can know his death date, June 8, 632 Medina.
We know who he married, and what his life was like from the Quran and the Hadith narratives.

He did not know how to write, that is true, but that has never been a great problem. Many famous leaders in the past did not know how to read or write, or were not good at it. They employed emanuenses (writers) to do the work.

The various Sura (or revelations) of Muhammad were recorded by various writers who were close to him, and eventually collected into one volume, after his death. This became important in the time of Caliph Uthman, who heard that variant readings of some of the suras were causing disputes, and also,because after the wars of apostasy and the Battle of Yamamah in particular a large number of those who had committed the Quran to memory perished. .

He asked Zayd ibn Thabit, who had known Muhammad personally,had been one of Muhammad's emanuenses, and was well versed in the suras, to put together an official version of the Quran, based on his memory of what was correct. All variant manuscripts were then burnt, much to the horror of their holders.
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Avatar Happy-Dance Oct, 29 2008 at 02:24 PM
when i was reading the list of muhammeds decendants i was i was singing that rugras song in my head (forgive me I am a mom)..and was wondering why they left off..rama da a ding dong..
Avatar singwell-is off researching a lot Oct, 29 2008 at 03:06 PM
hahahaha. watch out. the Muslim clique on AB might target you for comments like that. :-)
Avatar Happy-Dance Oct, 30 2008 at 11:47 AM
thats because thee funny bones are removed at birth

Answer 2 out of 6

by Friend on May 6, 2008 at 5:31 am Permalink

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I cant find historical evidence of abraham adam or eve, so sorry i cant answer it
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Avatar thatsJustme May, 06 2008 at 07:23 AM
i did not really need historical facts...was his lineage preserved in the koran?...was he traced or all endocrination?...no need of adam either,all man is traced back to Adam.. just Abraham, can he be traced to Abraham through Ishamael.....and it does not matter to me, period, I already know of the PROMISE through Sarah and Abraham...I know about Ishamael...
thanks.

Answer 3 out of 6

by Cs01kh on May 6, 2008 at 5:28 am Permalink

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I'll try to get back to you on this (though I am not the best person to answer this). Just a question, what do you mean when you ask "What is KNOWN of Muhammed"? do you mean his reputation? Accepted history? known of him before he became a prophet or after he became a prophet? etc... can you clarify that part of the question?
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Avatar Cs01kh May, 06 2008 at 07:51 AM
If your bible claims no future prophets, then you should not be waiting for the return of Jesus(PBUH) ;)
Though I dont remember which book. if I remember right, one of your books (though I dont remember if it is in Old Testament) your book(s) told of 1 more prophet called Ahmed!
That is the one of the major differences between Islam and your religion: Islam says God would not allow one of his prophets to be killed by evil people and that he would intervene your religion seems to imply that he doesnt care ;)
Anyway, since you were trying to create a trick question and wasnt seriously wanting to know Mohammed's lineage, looks like I wont need to look it up for you (because I should have relevant book)!
Avatar Cs01kh May, 06 2008 at 08:39 AM
Forgot to say: ragarding your comment that muslims say "we have the same God", that depends on which Christianity? Christianity that believes that Jesus is God? Christianity that believes that Jesus is the son of God? Christianity that believes that Jesus is a messenger of God? Obviously: Muslims cannot say, 'we believe in the same god as you' because different Christians believe in different god(s).
Avatar Happy-Dance Oct, 29 2008 at 10:04 AM
JESUS DID WARN OF FALSE PROPHETS AFTER HIM A/K/A MUHAMMED....AND WHAT DOES WAITING FOR PROPHETS HAVE TO DO WITH WAITING FOR JESUS..JESUS WS NOT A PROPHET..HE WAS THE EARTHLY MANIFESTATION OF GOD...AMEN..AND YOUR IDEA OF JESUS IS WARPED..THERE IS ONLY ONE JESUS..MUSLIMS LIKE TO PLAY WITH SCRIPTURE...BUT THE BIBLE WARNED US OF YOU AND YOUR FALSE PROPHET...REPENT

Answer 4 out of 6

by thatsJustme on Feb 18, 2009 at 6:47 pm Permalink

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Ishmael was not of the 12 Tribes in the the Covenant Promise of Abraham and Sarah..the Savior came down through Judah, the only Jews of the tribes..the only tribe that lasted till Jesus was born, HE was a Jew of Judah...as Prophecy said...
Hagars child was not in the Covenant Promise, only Sarah's....Sarah lost FAITH in God when she grew impatient with HIM(took 10 yrs. before God sent she and Abraham the Promised son, Isaac)and told Abraham to take Hagar...I guess Abraham's faith wavered too or he would have said no..but even so, God kept the Promise with Abraham and Sarah, and Jacob too...this had to be to bring the Savior in ..through Judah..
we are all descendants of Abraham through Noah and his 3 sons, Shem, Ham and Japeth....Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah,Perez,Esrom,Aram, Naasom, Salmon,Boaz, Obed,Jesse, King David,on to Mary and Joseph who were both of Davidic line..Joseph by adoption and Mary by blood ..the seed of woman.Genesis 3..
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Answer 5 out of 6

by JESUS-IS-MUSLIM on Feb 18, 2009 at 4:42 pm Permalink

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According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, about KEDAR:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp

Kedar:
"One of the sons of Ishmael (Gen. xxv. 13; I Chron. i. 29). The name is also applied in Scripture to the tribe that sprang from him, and is likewise used for the Bedouins generally, whose characteristic traits are ascribed to Kedar (Cant. i. 5; Isa. xxi. 16, xlii. 11, lx. 7; Jer. ii. 10, xlix. 28; Ezek. xxvii. 21). While very little is known of Kedar, the head of the tribe, his posterity, called also the "Bene Kedar" (Isa. xxi. 17), are described as barbarous tribes in connection with Mesech. "Woe is me," says the Psalmist (Ps. cxx. 5), "that I sojourn in Mesech, that I dwell in the tents of Kedar!" According to other passages, they appear to have been rich in flocks of sheep and goats, in which they traded with the Syrians (Ezek. xxvii. 21; Jer. xlix. 49). They dwelt in tents of black hair (Cant. i. 5) in the midst of the wilderness of Arabia, and were known as skilful archers (Isa. xxi. 17). But they also settled in villages or towns (Isa. xlii. 11). According to Mohammedan tradition, Kedar ("Ḳaidhar" ) was the ancestor of Mohammed; and it is through him that Mohammed's descent is traced to Ishmael (Caussin de Perceval, "Essai," i. 175).E. G"
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Answer 6 out of 6

by Anonymous on Oct 29, 2008 at 12:18 am Permalink

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no there is no direct lineage mentioned in the Quran. muhammad himself admitted he knew his ancestors only upto 17 generations & anyone adding more names to the list of ancestors was lying... muhammad could not write & one of the people who wrote his genealogy was Ibn Ishaq
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Is Muhhamed's claim to be a descendant of Abraham through son Ishamael able to be traced , lineage? what is KNOWN of Muhammed....?and if he could not write, who did? just asking..

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