- NEW!
by The Chief on August 31st, 2009
"undeniable proof of your existence" as God.
Now THERE is a challenge for you!
Let's look at this from a totally DIFFERENT perspective, shall we?
Let us say, for the sake of argument, that God does exist and that he created the entire universe.
Science is in the business of observing the universe around us and trying to figure out how it works. To that end, many theories exist, and more are unfolding, about the nature of existence itself.
One of those theories postulates, for example, that in order for the universe to exist as we know it, eleven dimensions are required.
This implies, under the assumption above, that God must be at least an eleven dimensional being in order to have created a universe requiring eleven dimensions to exist.
So, let's think about that for a moment, shall we?
We, human beings, are three dimensional creatures living in a four dimensional continuum, within an eleven dimensional framework.
Edwin Abott wrote a book called "Flatland", which described a race of beings who lived in a two dimensional universe. As two dimensional creatures, they are incapable of seeing three dimensional objects any other way than in two dimensions, those by which their plane of existence is defined.
Consider, for example, a circular column three feet in diameter and 10 feet tall. If the two dimensional plane of existence occupied by these beings is perpendicular to the column, then all they would see would be a line three feet long. The could not perceive that the column was ten feet tall, nor that it was round.
But if the plane of existence occupied by these creatures were vertical with respect to the column, they would see a line ten feet long. Again, they would not be able to perceive it had width or depth.
And again, if the plane of existence were parallel to the column, they would not be able to perceive it at all.
However, if they were able to shift their perception around as they observed the column, they MIGHT be able to divine an explanation. This is because as they shift their point of view from, say, the horizontal to the vertical perspectives, they would see a line that shifts from three feet long to ten feet long (slightly longer from edge to edge, in fact).
And, interestingly enough, since two dimensional creatures can still walk AROUND an object, if they were to walk around the column on a plane perpendicular to the column, they would see a line of constant length.
Now, jump up one dimension to us: three dimensional creatures traveling through time. We are just beginning to be able to visualize for ourselves what a five dimensional hyper-cube would look like. And, of necessity, we must understand and explain it in terms which we understand: length, width, depth, and time. Because we have no other way to do so, being creatures defined by our three dimensional existence.
Take a look at this site, for a hint of this visualization process:
http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/kenny/papers/4dplots.html
So, it's POSSIBLE for beings of sufficient intelligence in lower order dimensions to postulate the existence of higher order dimensions. Mainly because they can come up with mathematical theorems which have solutions requiring higher order dimensions to resolve. But CONCEPTUALLY understanding them and VISUALLIZING them is something else.
Now, flash forward again. Not to five dimensions, or even six or seven. But ELEVEN dimensions. The number of dimensions current scientific theories say MUST exist in order to explain the universe.
We have a problem here, don't we?
If, hypothetically speaking, God were an eleven dimensional being, then there is NO WAY for us to perceive him or to describe him outside our three and four dimensional senses. Like the beings living in a two dimensional universe viewing a three dimensional object: what that three dimensional object looks like CHANGES depending on how the two planes of existence intersect.
If they were observing a human being, for example, and they saw the human on a plane perpendicular to the human at belly button level, who is standing with their arms down, they would see three straight lines in a row. A short one, representing the left arm, a long one representing the torso, and another short one representing the right arm.
Now, the human lifts his right arm to pick his nose. The two lines for the torso and left arm are unchanged. But the line for the right arm shifts in length as the arm bends, finally disappearing as the arm lifts completely OUT of the two dimensional universe on it's way to picking the nose of it's owner.
If the two dimensional creatures were observing the same human from a vertical orientation, there would be absolutely NO changes at all in their perspective because nothing would have changed in the view for them while the human picked his nose.
And yet, for the human, he DID pick his nose! The 2D people just can't perceive it! (Probably just as well...I have to suffer watching my 10 year old son pick his nose all the time.)
Likewise an eleven dimensional being would continually shift appearances as our perspective of him changed. We could NEVER view it in its entire eleven dimensional glory as long as we are bound to our limited lower level dimensions.
Which, in a way, is an utterly FASCINATING way of looking at God, if he does exist. How we EACH perceive God changes depending on our perspective, because he exists as an eleven dimensional creature which we can ONLY fractionally perceive in three dimensions. And yet, within the scope of an eleven dimensional universe, it is the SAME God that everyone sees. Even if what YOU see is TOTALLY different than what I see.
But we humans have this propensity to argue that since something LOOKS different, it MUST BE different. Therefore “MY God is not the same as YOUR God” and we will wage endless wars over something which may, ultimately, boil down to fighting over one group of people who are seeing God’s glory from the three dimensional point of view of a pimple on his eleven dimensional ass and another group of people who are seeing God’s glory from the three dimensional view of him picking his eleven dimensional nose.
So, back to the question: “If I were God, would I choose to give undeniable proof of my existence, or would I prefer to stay physically hidden from man”?
If I WERE God, as an eleven dimensional being, then I COULDN’T provide direct, undeniable proof of my existence to three dimensional creatures living in a four dimensional continuum. There would be seven dimensions of my existence forever beyond the direct perceptions of human beings which could ONLY be perceived through indirect means.
Unless, or until, human beings transcend the limitations of their existence and extend themselves into higher dimensions of existence, there could be no direct observation or proof that I, as God, would exist.
Bring onthe DR's! I can handle it!
by RFlagg on August 23rd, 2006
As a minor deitie myself, I deal with this problem all the time. Sure, if you provide proof then you are free to have more an influence on the everyday lives of mortals, but haveing corporeal evidence, form and presence will ultimatly cheapen and undermine you're desiples faith in you so no.
No definative proof.
by Perryman on August 23rd, 2006
If I were God, I would do it just like he chose to do it.
Some folks can’t ever get enough proof.
We are agents of free will. We can deny, or we can believe.
It is like it says at Romans 1:20 :
"For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable".
by Mr. McClister on August 12th, 2006
I would give proof....I wouldnt just depend on people who never recieved any legitimate proof of my existense to figure it out and even if I didn't give proof I would throw them in a firey pit for not figuring out I was real....
by Nulinvoid on September 2nd, 2006
Have you taken a good look at history? Based on our track record I wouldn't want to have much to do with us either. Not until I decide that we've had enough time mucking around trying to figure it out on our own. Then I'd step in and make it right.
by thinkin on August 23rd, 2006
I agree with perryman. If god just gave proof they we wouldn't have "beleivers" ppl choose to be athiests or morman or what ever but the fact remains they all beleive in something one way or another. God sends me proof all the time it might not be standing right in front of me and sometimes it takes hind sight to see it but i know he is there.
by lady fuschia on August 23rd, 2006
I'd go for proof- I can't think quite how I'd go about it though. I could talk to people or appear before them, but I'm not sure how I'd make sure they didn't just think they were hallucinating. I suppose the best thing to do would be to take up permanent residence on earth. But even then some people would claim I wasn't really god, and I was lying- and I'd probably have to deal with several other people claiming THEY were God.
Tricky see. I'm glad I'm not God.
by anonymous on August 21st, 2006
Proof! woo yeah, then people can't deny I'm here! Then people like me (Athiests) can shove all their doubting of me where the sun don't shine! woo!
by jesspants on October 8th, 2009
one of the best reads I have had in a while.
From my own experience I believe this "eleventh dimension" is a plane where there no longer is such a thing as separateness as we know it because when I meditate at times I feel that I don't even have a body anymore and I feel the most indescribable feeling of peace that this 4 dimensional universe we inhabit does not have enough words to define and in this eleventh dimension only feelings hold the answers because when words are removed, those feelings have so much more meaning and power. They are not restricted and put in a box by definitions that even in their most complex and beautiful form still would not do them justice but in fact can at times play their part in distracting us from letting go and really feeling the magnitude of the truth without any boundaries.
Thanks for a unique perspective Cheif :)
by RubyReds on September 22nd, 2009
No need for him to 'give' proof, just look around and you will find all the proof. Everything you see is proof. And then, He gave proof by dying on the cross.... and rise after again!
by --- on August 31st, 2009
God claims that there is already undeniable proof.
"The heavens declare the glory of God. The firmament showeth His handiwork."
"I will praise Thee for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; marvellous are thy works and that my soul knoweth right well."
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are CLEARLY [emphasis added] seen being understood by the things that are made so that they are without excuse."
The problem is that man believes what he prefers to be true and the idea of being accountable to a holy God is not something that sinful man appreciates. Not believing what God has already revealed of Himself is as absurd as not believing in the architect of a building or the painter of painting. The "handiwork" of the individual obviously proves his existence.
by krsnaknows on August 31st, 2009
Why should I give proof of my own existence to my own self?Know your Self and that is enough!
by brian646 on August 31st, 2009
GOD allowed his only son to be crucified and suffer under Pontious Pilate.....to suffer, die and be buried.......i think that was to prove the grace of the lord....i have been Catholic since i was a child........even jesus stated to his father when he was dying on the cross and looked up to the heaven's, "why have you forsaken me"????? i think that we will not know all of these answer's until we die......take care....Brian
by Perryman on August 28th, 2009
Here is your undeniable proof:
http://space.about.com/od/pictures/ig/Earth-Pictures-Gallery/SMART-1-Looks-Back.htm
http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/photography/photogalleries/landscapes
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20070215/article_01.htm
I am not God, I am just one of His witnesses.
by Anonymous on January 27th, 2008
I would send balloons from heaven tied up with giftcards. That should prove of my existence.
by tjatherton on September 2nd, 2006
He doesn't have to do either... He doesn't have to prove anything to anybody.. he is God!
Either you believe or you don't, no high school games of "how high you can piss on the wall"
by ZiggyStardust on October 8th, 2009
If I were God, infinately powerful and all knowing. I sure as hell wouldn't pay any attention to the inhabitants of a single, small, insignificant, blue planet, when there were absolutely BILLIONS of other plantets out there.
Kinda makes sense that he has never answered a single prayer, when you think about how much time he must spend paying no attention whatsoever to earth.
by Tom 47 is back in his bear COAT on October 8th, 2009
Only if I were very insecure and egocentric and into terrifying lesser beings,..which God is not.
by MadMike on August 28th, 2009
I am the single prophet for the Quantum Mechanical theory of God and his revelations and why they have discrepancies both large and small. God created beings with free will because at each choice that they make, the demise of God enlarges by 2, because Schrodinger's cat, is both, Alive AND Dead. Not OR. It is gods will that we make choices and he has gone to a lot trouble to see that there are many schools of thought. It suits Gods purpose that the "God Given Key To The Right Way Of life" is not singular but plural and discordant. For it makes people make choices, and every forced choice serves him. But when you come down to the similarities "Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you" is the most common and greatest. But even that becomes "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" or "do unto him BEFORE he does unto you"(in a bad way)
by HaPpY_1 on August 31st, 2009
i'd stop bein a Bitch and come out already.... "Prove me wrong!"
by Normal guy on August 28th, 2009
Can you imagine the chaos that would be created if undeniable proof of Gods existence were delivered.
by guirion on August 28th, 2009
Neither.
I'd wipe all of you little bastards out and get some freakin' peace and quiet! "God can you make me rich?", "God can you smite my enemy?", God are you really there?"
SHEESH!
Enough already!
;-)
by DiSTurBiA on January 27th, 2008
I would, I'd prefer for my people to know me :)
by roller_fox on August 28th, 2009
I've always found it funny that people who believe this one creature created everything in the entire universe also believe he would give half a dried out turd about this one species on one planet in one system...We're not even that interesting, so I think it's not a case that God chose not to give us proof, it's just that we're not noteworthy enough to bother with. So no proof, but not hiding either :)
by MrJosh on August 31st, 2009
If I were a god, I would give undeniable proof of my existence. I value a skeptical, reasoning mind over faith any time. I wouldn't expect anyone to believe in me if I haven't given them ample reason to do so.
by -O-uknow on August 31st, 2009
Is the air you breath hidden or merely not detected by your sight?
by Mr_Natural Abstractor of the Quintessence on September 22nd, 2009
Of all the silly and bizarre things humans have dreamed up over the ages, a giant, omniscient, immortal, omnipotent, invisible spirit that controls everything is probably the silliest.
The entire concept of invisible spirit(s) flitting around the universe, spying on us to see who is having sex with whom, is more than silly. It's more than bizarre. It's pathological.
by borasalama on September 22nd, 2009
The vast majority of things in our life we accept on trust. Not only do we NOT keep rushing to the lab to personally verify every little bit of information we come across, we do not even ask for proof on some rather important aspects of our own lives. Even regarding our identity, we are happy to accept, without question, purely on trust, that those we call ‘mum’ and ‘dad’ are our biological parents.
Our decision to believe in the existence of God has elements of trust, reason and the exercise of our free will. HQ 18:29 acknowledges that we have free will in the matter “Say, ‘The truth is from your Lord’ So let him who wills so believe, and let him who wills so, reject (it)”
If God were to give us UNDENIABLE proof of his existence then, unless we were mad or suicidal, we would have to believe in His existence. That in one stroke would make our free will meaningless.
So I expect the answer is No UNDENIABLE proof of existence because it would make a mockery of free will on this issue.
by Kayleigh on September 21st, 2009
If I were God I would stay hidden and let the people have their freedom of choice. Wether they believe in me or not, I do not think I would care. If I were the God that the Bible speaks of I would have made everything on earth anyway. They do not have to convert to me I do not like to be the center of attention anyway.
by Nutsy_Rail on September 21st, 2009
I would not give any evidence of my existence. do you know how many wars were started because different groups of people believed that their different gods communicated with them?
by Daryl on August 31st, 2009
If God cared at all, he would see all the problems caused on this planet by the mysteries surrounding him, and all the different stories, all claiming to be true.
But if God were a jerk, he'd demand (through codefied whispers) that everybody bow down to him and praise him constantly (like a Don in an Italian neighborhood), instead of focusing on the real problems of feeding and protecting everybody -- which is our collective job, like it or not.
But I don't think that an all-powerful being would be so uncaring, or such a jerk. So I prefer to believe purely in science and then just get on with my life. We have developed the capacity for establishing norms of ethics and morals, so we don't need a list of rules from God -- other than F=Ma, E-mC2, and stuff like that (which we didn't find in a book; we figured it out on our own).
If there IS a God, I think he would be just fine with this sort of conclusion from a thinking man. Jesus said that God loves sheep, but I don't think he meant that we should immitate them.
by Robertd903 on September 21st, 2009
If I were God, I don't think it would matter if I gave undeniable proof of my existence--or NOT! Man, in his infinite wisdom and VANITY, will always "find" ways to prove HIS superiority and "divine being" and "intelligence"--over TRUTH.
It's really strange to me, how there's SO much controversy over the existance of GOD--but very little, if any, over the existance of satan!!! Any hot debates going on over whether or not satan exists?
Hmmm...
by Adeptone on April 21st, 2010
God is not "hiding" - humanity is hiding from God.
God DESIRES for mankind to COME AND MEET HIM, but the world's religions (including Christianity) PREVENT humanity from doing so by teaching them that either they must die first (having believed in Jesus), or reincarnate until they become enlightened.
NEITHER is correct! THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET GOD IS NOW. DURING LIFE.
Undeniable proof is available via Direct Personal Experience.
"Be Still and Know that I AM God."
I wonder - how would you respond when it is proven that God does exist? That there is undisputed, factual evidence of his existence?
by Odyssee on August 14th, 2011
| 5 people like this
Do you think Ovechkin and Crosby had to sell their souls to Miroslav Satan to get their talent?
by Have A Nice Day on September 14th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
What do Americans worship more - money or God? Does faith guide the country? Or greed? Evidence?
by GibsonGuy on September 22nd, 2011
| 1 person likes this
Will Christian extremists who believe in Dominionism and Recnstructionism, dominate the American political atmosphere in 2012?
by GibsonGuy on August 30th, 2011
| 1 person likes this
When you ask a "god" question in this PUBLIC forum, does it annoy you when an Athiest responds?
by carman727 on November 24th, 2011
| 3 people like this
You're reading If you were God, would you choose to give undeniable proof of your existence, or would you prefer to stay physically hidden from man?
Your favorite Q&A site is on Facebook! Become a fan to connect with the ever-growing community of Answerbaggers, share your thoughts and find out what Answerbag's up to next!
Comments
Wow!!
.
How about an uprate instead?
by Arisztid on August 31st, 2009
NOW, you've done it. You're going to get different religions arguing that THEY are the ones who "are seeing God’s glory from the three dimensional view of him picking his eleven dimensional nose" and all other religions "are seeing God’s glory from the three dimensional point of view of a pimple on his eleven dimensional ass". And... Where does that leave the Atheists who can't see ANY God? Way to go! Dude! LOL +6
by BigDaddyBS on August 31st, 2009
It probably leaves Atheists fighting over where those eleven dimensional boogers came from!
.
:):):)
.
Thanks, guys!
by The Chief on September 1st, 2009
OMG .. that's great Chief ... take +++6
by Over and Out on September 1st, 2009
Heh! Thank you, Barb!
by The Chief on September 1st, 2009
I can barely wrap my single dimensional brain around this, but what I'm able to grasp, it sure does sound about right to me. <salutes Chief> +6
by Phillis - Zacks little sister on September 1st, 2009
Heh! I DO think a little 'differently' than most, don't I?
.
:):):)
by The Chief on September 1st, 2009
I think you did a splendid job :)
by Phillis - Zacks little sister on September 1st, 2009
+6 :)
by Evil Pregnant Master on September 1st, 2009
:):)
by The Chief on September 1st, 2009
its good to not all be the same and see things different, cause you can see things in a way you would have never thought. as i think.
by Evil Pregnant Master on September 1st, 2009
And there you have it! The secret to growing and learning!
.
:):):)
by The Chief on September 1st, 2009
why you always come back for more? LOL
by Evil Pregnant Master on September 1st, 2009
This is becoming painful to watch. I'm outta here. Have a great day, everyone!
by Phillis - Zacks little sister on September 1st, 2009
Sorry, Lynn! I'm a little too wordy, sometimes! Ya havta grin and bear it!
.
:):)
by The Chief on September 1st, 2009
well keep comen back for more :) lol but i must say you have a good brain on you for shure.
by Evil Pregnant Master on September 1st, 2009
:):)
by The Chief on September 1st, 2009
Are you going to build a church in/near Seattle any time soon? If so, I may give up my heathen ways.
I take back all... well, MOST of the bad things I ever said about Khakis.
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on September 1st, 2009
Seriously, I have always maintained that the divine is beyond the abilities of us mere mortals to comprehend, but have done so in an unstructured manner.
For you to lay it out so plainly makes you the type of clergyman I would turn to when the rest of the world makes no sense and I need comfort.
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on September 1st, 2009
HAHAHAHA!
.
No church...but I'll certainly look for another beer if I get out that way again!
by The Chief on September 1st, 2009
Huh. A DR. With no comment. Wah.
.
Here...have some 11 dimensional boogers.
.
:):):)
by The Chief on September 22nd, 2009
Bazza, is that you?
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on September 22nd, 2009
points for a good illustration of our limitations Chief, we are indeed stuck in our 3D space. Let alone things that are higher than 3D, even things less than 3D are a problem for us to handle. We can only draw them. Not only can they not exist in our reality, even in our imagination we cannot conjure up anything that's less than 3D.
.
As for God, if we are to have one, He must be our Creator. And if He is our creator, He must know what information we are capable of receiving and understanding, that being so He will only feed us information that is within our capacity of understanding.
by borasalama on September 22nd, 2009
Precisely, borasalama.
.
And if we are created, and the intent is for us to be able to move on eventually (to ultimately reside with Him in His existence), then it will NOT happen to us as we exist now. We must, therefore, change and transcend this mortal existence as we know it.
.
I do not know if my illustration is accurate, and I don't portray it as being "reality". It is only my way of explaining why there is not "undeniable proof" of God's existence.
.
:):):)
by The Chief on September 22nd, 2009
that's where faith, trust, reason and choice come in.
.
Use reason, make what you trust to be the right choice, have faith and you will ascend.
by borasalama on September 22nd, 2009
And now for some semi-related humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmHN3JtyUXg&feature=player_embedded
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on September 22nd, 2009
You know, things like that are what make me feel the we are all a lot closer to each other than most people would have us believe, despite our differing philosophies and personal beliefs!
by The Chief on September 22nd, 2009
Heh! I've got to leave work now so I can view that video, jerv! Youtube is blocked here.
.
See ya in an hour or two!
by The Chief on September 22nd, 2009
HAHAHAHA!
.
I LOVE the way she hammers him! That's on my youtube favorites, now...
by The Chief on September 22nd, 2009
I knew you'd love it :)
Right after I put it up, I figure why not and ....
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1711331
Tell us how you REALLY feel!
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on September 22nd, 2009
There might be a fecal storm on the horizon for that question...
.
:):):)
by The Chief on September 22nd, 2009
Apparently not; you are the first (and thus far, only) answer.
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on September 22nd, 2009
Ah, well. Give it time and somebody will come along and take those points aay for us!
.
Ya gotta have faith in the trolls!
by The Chief on September 22nd, 2009
So God has in front of him the proverbial "rock so big that even he can't lift it," in the form of a mystery so complex that even he cannot explain it to us lowly humans (which he created). Well, I don't buy it.
by Daryl on October 5th, 2009
I never asked you to buy it, Daryl. I'm not selling anything for you to buy. My beliefs and my reasoning are my own.
.
The question asked "If YOU were God, would YOU choose to give undeniable proof of your existance..." (Caps mine for emphasis.)
.
So the question asks ME to answer from MY perspective. Not yours or anybody elses.
.
So my answer has no right or wrong; it has no other perspective than my own; it does not ask for nor expect anyone else to believe it.
.
My answer also does not allude to any hypothetical postulation such as "If God is so powerful, can He create a rock so big even He couldn't lift it?" This was because the question didn't even hint at such a consideration and my answer didn't require one either.
.
My answer also does not use, nor require, any religious tenets to make my case. I spoke of no angels, referenced no scriptures, and cited no religious dogma.
.
You don't like it? Fine with me.
.
Oh...and you are free to offer up your own answer, if you wish. That's the beauty of these questions. I'd be interested in seeing yours.
.
:):):)
by The Chief on October 5th, 2009
Daryl, I'm not sure I understand what the "rock so big that even he can't lift it," is trying to say, but the "mystery so complex that even he cannot explain" very vividly highlights a huge deficiency in God. A deficiency that is even more damning because it's a failure to explain to His own creation, the human, about whom there is NOTHING He shouldn't know.
.
Is it difficult to square up this deficiency in God with all the other superlatives associated with Him? Perhaps not, especially if you are accustomed to the idea of a God who at some point in His existence had to have his diapers (nappies) changed. If one can live with that, then I suppose a God unable to explain Himself to his audience is very easy to accommodate.
by borasalama on October 5th, 2009
Heh!
by The Chief on October 5th, 2009
If we could see God, then what is the guarantee that we will believe? And I guess then there would not have been the free will stuff. To me, only if one thinks a bit deeper about nature, he can see the Hand of God.
by Spaitray on October 5th, 2009
this is getn interesting!
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 5th, 2009
If He didn't kept His self invisible and let us just see Him then how would a blind see Him. Believing is something greater than seeing, we can achieve that by thinking about the creations of God. Just think about the investigator looking for proof of a something, he looks for signs.
by Spaitray on October 5th, 2009
Otherwise, God would have just programmed our minds to believe Him, follow his rules (i.e. Rules of nature) and let us be like other animals. Then we would have been observing another creature with a free will of choice. :)
by Spaitray on October 5th, 2009
I missed angels (thank you for your profile. Lynn) God could have made us angels who are like machines without fun, while animals can also have fun. But it is His graces that He made us humans and gave us a chance for paradise for ultimate fun. :)
by Spaitray on October 5th, 2009
:)
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 5th, 2009
You have some good points, Spaitray.
.
Thank you.
by The Chief on October 5th, 2009
Who said the blind wouldn't be able to see God if he allowed us to see his 11th dimension self? Do you (does ANYONE) actually KNOW what that 11th dimension is? ;-)
by BigDaddyBS on October 5th, 2009
The Chief: I can say about myself that I might be the only one who is completely open about his self atleast on AB I never hide anything about myself, :) anyone can try to harm me but they won't because I never harm anyone. That is what I work too. May I add you as a friend?
by Spaitray on October 5th, 2009
Bigdaddybs: I'm not telling to believe me. But I know how dimensions and planes actually work :). How to travel from one to another. During the study I actually lost for some time but at the moment I'm a bit afraid to think about that. I can also teach other too but when I fully recover.
by Spaitray on October 5th, 2009
You may indeed, Spaitray. I look forward to your invitation!
by The Chief on October 5th, 2009
Working nights this week, Chief?
by BigDaddyBS on October 5th, 2009
Yep!
by The Chief on October 5th, 2009
wow that must be tiren
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 5th, 2009
It can be. But it does have it's advantages! It leaves me free to do some things during the day that I normally wouldn't have the opportunity for.
by The Chief on October 5th, 2009
well what would you do with a free day?
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 6th, 2009
Hopefully something better than what I did.
I learned that arcwelding with starter motor of an S-10 is a bad idea, that certain parts of their front brake fittings are not fireproof, and that some people have a very casual attitude towards open flames under the hood of their vehicle.
I guess there's no need to rush when the fireball is still smaller than your head...
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
Laundry?
.
:):)
.
Seriously, there are any number of things, from cleaning to projects to whatever.
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
Jerv, you never cease to amaze me!
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
Go into your garage and finish building your airship ;)
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
lol jerv!
hmm laundry? what kind of airship?
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 6th, 2009
Hey, I wasn't even within arms reach of the vehicle!
At least is wasn't my caaarrggh. That thing is running better every day, though it's still an underpowered little box. The only flames there are from my lighter.
Besides, just ask my wife: I was *long* overdue for having something burst into flames. And this time, it wasn't my hands!
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 6th, 2009
Spaitray your points and reasoning sound as though they've come straight from the HQ.
-If we could see God, what is the guarantee that we will believe?
-If we could see God, there would not have been [have been less of] the free will stuff.
-If He let us see Him [with the naked eye] how would a blind see Him.
-Believing is something greater than seeing, we can achieve that by thinking a bit deeper about nature, about the creations of God, we can then see the Hand of God. Just think about the investigator looking for proof of a something, he looks for signs.
-God could have just programmed our minds to believe Him, follow his rules (i.e. Rules of nature) and let us be like other animals. Then we would have been observing another creature with a free will of choice. :)
-angels are like machines without fun, while animals can also have fun.
-But it is His graces that He made us humans and gave us a chance for paradise for ultimate fun
by borasalama on October 6th, 2009
More fine points.
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
Lynn, the reference to 'airship' likely refers to my love of sea shanties and things having to do with pirates...and a song called "Airship Pirates" by Abney Park, that jerv and I saw in concert.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WrPWFn7e2c
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
oh kool :) love the song
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 6th, 2009
:):)
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
You got the airship, I got the pirate car :P
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
Heh!
.
You need to go here:
.
http://www.cafepress.com/pyrate/653252
.
My favorite so far is "Guns don't kill people. PIRATES kill people!"
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
LOL
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 6th, 2009
I prefer, "Remember, pillage THEN burn!"
I've been thinking about mounting cannons on my car since before I even moved to Seattle. Now I have an excuse!
Then again, you've been on I-5 so you know that we don't need an excuse for any sort of hostility on the road.
Okay, the drivers here are more inept than actually hostile, but I still think that firing a broadside attack might make people hang up their cellphones and concentrate on driving. And given how light the "armor" on an '85 Corolla is, I need whatever edge I can get!
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
Oh, man...I just had a picture of you pulling alongside someone on the interstate and your wife shoving a plank out the window while screaming "AVAST YE SCURVY DOGS! STAND DOWN AND PREPARE TO BE BOARDED!"
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
I actually thought about putting that on my front bumper in mirror-script :P
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
Heh!
.
I thought about putting "WARNING: CRAZY IVAN!" on my car.
.
But I doubt many would understand, even if I had Submarine Dolphins on my car.
.
"Crazy Ivan" is a maneuver soviet submarines used to make to see if they were being followed. A submarine has a huge blind spot in it's baffles...the area right behind it where the ship's sonar cannot listen due to the shape of the ship and the interference caused by the rudder, stern planes, and screw.
.
So periodically, submarines execute maneuvers to port or starboard to turn the ship so they can listen behind them to see what's there.
.
Soviet subs used to make HARD port or starboard turns with absolutely NO warning...which made following too closely VERY dangerous, as you could not only be discovered, you could accidentally ram the Soviet sub. The maneuver was called "Crazy Ivan".
.
I suppose only dedicated submariners would understand this to mean "BACK OFF" if they were tailgating me!
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
cute!!
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 6th, 2009
You would think that, with a skull and crossbones avatar, Lynn!
.
:):):)
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
LOL :)
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 6th, 2009
Chief - Isn't that why they have hydrophones mounted astern on a LONG cable: to cover that blind-spot?
Then again, the Russians still use vacuum-tube radios to avoid EMP so maybe they are more ingenious than we give them credit for.
An ex-bubblehead MS friend of mine used to tell me about "angles and dabgles". Apparently one if his former COs thought of a fast-attack sub as the aquatic equivalent of an F/A-18. 30 degrees bow-up and 40 to to side! He (the MS) only filled the bug juice to 1/3 as a result.
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
Then again, I suppose "crazy" and "bubblehead" are pretty much synonymous.
I set my hands on fire fairly regularly, but you submariners freak me out!
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
That's called a towed array. And even then, those are sensitive to sounds which are laterally oriented to the array.
.
They are towed behind the sub for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which is that it separates the hydrophones from the hull of the ship and thus isolates them from the background noise of the ship...so they can pick up and identify more noises which don't come from your own sub.
.
Turning the sub reorients the towed array and changes the directions you can listen.
.
Crazy Ivan is a DELIBERATE maneuver, intentionally made during unexpected times to make it difficult for trailing submarines to both hide and to get close enough to gather accurate accoustic information on the soviet sub. The rapid maneuver meant that a trailing submarine would be more likely to have to take a drastic maneuver to avoid a collision, and thus give himself away. Once a submarine has been counter-detected, the game strategies change.
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
Angles and Dangles are a routine maneuver when a submarine first submerges. It, too, serves a purpose.
.
The primary purposes are to take the ship through extreem up and down angles, which will remove any air trapped between the ship's pressure hull and the superstructure. Also, the extremem maneuvers will help the ship identify any sound shorts caused by loose plating or equipment, and also verifies the rig-for-sea.
.
Rig for sea, meaning the Sailors have properly stowed everything, like books, tools, personal belongings, and (of course) the f*cking dishes the cooks never seem to have put away correctly the first time we dive.
.
Noise is the submariner's worst enemy...and "transient" noises the worst of all. This is because the slightest noise transmitted to the surrounding waters will tell the enemy we are there...and maybe even where we are.
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
hmmm WOW
by Evil Pregnant Master on October 6th, 2009
I was under the impression that the towed array was more like a rear-view mirror. I mean, the stern of a sub is rather "noisy" in that respect. As for blind-spots in the non-rearward direction, I din't think there really were any unless the STs were asleep, and if they can't do what they were trained for then EVERYONE is screwed!
Rig-for sea.... you know, it seems almost like Engineering department were the only ones that never had a problem there. AIMD would get hit on the head by books flying off the shelves, OPS would get sideswiped by rolling chairs, Civvies would toss their cookies, and Supply (aside from S-2 and S-5) just never got it, but Engineering would just shrug and say "Meh" and go on with our fine, fine Navy day.
If you ever were on board the USS Tripoli at any speed above 5 knots, you would know that "transient noise" was not an issue. Ever try to hide 18,000+ tons of skimmer with a bent driveshaft? So long as they didn't hit *another* mine, they couldn't care less about stealth.
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
Is is a bad sign when the stern bounces over a foot at UNREP speeds (15-18 knots)?
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
It would certainly be cause for alarm to be the recipient of that much of a jump!
.
As for the towed array...it's nothing more than a series of hydrophones along several feed of cable, which is in turn towed behind the ship where it is away from the noise of the ship itself.
.
Hold up a pencil and imagine that representing the towed array. Everything off to the side of the pencil is in the area of maximum sensitivity. But if you look at the pencil end-on, like you would if it were a towed array and you were directly behind it, you can see that only a very small area is presented to the ocean. Even with a hydrophone mounted at the very tip, it's sensitivity would be FAR lower in this orientation.
.
Submarines on patrol are constantly making course corrections and sweeps. They rarely travel in a straight line for any distance unless they are transiting from one place to another. Even then they sweep.
by The Chief on October 6th, 2009
Skimmers rarely do straight lines either.
A few of my old Deck department buddies were members of the 360-club.
You can usually only get away with it on the mid-watch, though a few did it on the 0400-0800, and regardless, you *cannot* do it in-transit since the whole point of transit is to get from point A to point B.
Basically, you give it a little rudder (1 degree or less) and wait for the compass to do a full 360, and hope that nobody important notices. The average time for a 360 of this nature is about 3 hours; you have to be subtle about it and hope that someone is drowsilly inattentive.
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 6th, 2009
:) this discussion is interesting, I guess I found someone to have discussion with instead of just quick question and answer stuff. So there is also some flesh and bones hiding in AB, poor me, that I can't spent much time over here, due to my line of work.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
The chief: You got a pretty heavy kind of stuff in your profile, sort of my kind. I guess :) I should envy you, thanks for the quality stuff. Pardon me for my short comments, its so cuz being in computer stuff, I hate to sit with a bulky pc other than plain work.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
So I instead use PDA, but recently my piece prevented to be a submarine and submerged in more deeper water than it could handle. I tried to give it a first aid but it was more broken than that so it is having its medication with an engineer. :)
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
And left me struggling with an old sluggish nokia n90, which got too much limitations esp when it comes to texting in a web page and again, especially with AB.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
So tell me, who would like to learn about something about a whole different kind of knowledge, I named it scieart (coined this name myself) some people call it mystic arts but I don't call it mystic because anyone who possesses knowledge of science,
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
And this art plus a bit of common sense, could link it with sciences. How about a deeper dip in that 11 dimension stuff. :)
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
You might have not knew about this because it is a pure eastern knowledge, it deals with practical stuff more than theories. And we easterns really owe an apology to west as this knowledge is kept hidden for more than a century.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
Through this knowledge one can understand, how peoples in the past erected those mighty architecture without modern machinery.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
Someone can raise a question that why am I sharing this, when no one else opened their mouth about this, 1. Because this is getting extinct. 2. Because west let me learn the knowledge they possessed and now I should also provide them something in return.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
May be I should give a hint so that you might not take me as a bluffer. You (the chief) described very nicely the theory about dimensions, about those two dimension creatures, Now I tell you about a possibility to travel between dimensions, but one at a time,
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
One at a time means to keep the other dimensions intact while changing one dimension. There are dimensions where empty space becomes sort of liquid. (apology if you feel difficulty while understanding me, this is because I am not raised with English)
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
But the language problem could be eliminated through patience. One more thing, I never counted the number of dimensions because there is always the possibility of being getting hurt when you divide concentration.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
Spaitray - First off, I do a lot of my browsing with a netbook with an actual keyboard, fair-sized screen, wireless, and under three pounds. I don't like being tethered or weighted down, but I would go nuts with a PDA or Blackberry. You might want to look into them if you have a little extra money; they are relatively inexpensive too.
The language barrier isn't that big between us. There are American teens who speak/write English worse than you so don't be too hard on yourself. Besides, like many others here (and unlike you), I never learned a second language so I am pretty much stuck with English :P
I can't speak for Chief, but I am rather interested. I've always felt that the Universe operates in odd ways that cannot really be explained by our conventional (Western) thinking.
We do all this medical research on extending the human lifespan while there are peasants in the East living well past 110 still able to think and walk, so you must be doing *something* right over there!
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 7th, 2009
:) I will come to that (lifespan) part in the near future, because you might not understand that at the moment. It would be like telling a baby of things too complicated. The knowledge I talk about, at first seems to be very different from applied science,
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
But when you'll learn it with patience, it becomes very logical, somehow more than the applied science. Yes :) it is dangerous too, if you'll try to take a mouth full. It is interesting because you'll feel the nature while I tell you about it. Just think of growing a tree. :)
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
Sorry but I should also ask you, tell me how would you like to learn. 1. Do you want to learn the powers. You could easily learn to manipulate time, only slowing down of time for your own self, you cant go backward. 2. Or let me slowly take you to the real cream.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
When I'll teach you my way, I'll teach you randomly about its different fields, I'll try first to prepare your mind so that you could easily be able to digest and process it, and this will take lesser time than the first way.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
Honestly, I'm not too interested in this as a personal commitment, Spaitray. HOWEVER, I DO like to learn about such things.
.
As jerv says, there is more to this world than meets the eye, and one cannot simply discount other philosophies, beliefs, or customs simply because they are outside their own worldview. This precludes the possibility of learning.
.
You might think about this carefully and consider posting your own question, designed to evoke thoughtful exchange. Then other people would be able to more easily find this topic.
by The Chief on October 7th, 2009
True.
As it stands, this thread has been largely abandoned except by me, Chief, and now you. If you keep posting *here* then odds are that Chief and I will be the only two to see it.
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 7th, 2009
Yeppers.
by The Chief on October 7th, 2009
Thats the main reason why I'm posting here. :) I cannot handle too many people alone, so in the start I choose, those who are lovers of knowledge, because they get interested in the knowledge and not the powers beyond the knowledge.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
Because once one get interested to take advantages of the powers, he looses the whole idea. Its like, once one finds to built a modem, starts building it in bulk and forgets about learning to make the whole computer, or more instead.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
And in fact, I want to use this knowledge for a bigger goal, that is evolution of mind. Its not my goal just to make some people learn about something new but to convince people that they can use this knowledge to achieve the impossible.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
The world peace. You know why am I a staunch believes of God, because I started struggle for the goal of peace alone. I felt very strongly that some invisible power is helping me. Now I have access even to very big names in Pakistan's country runners, in media.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
I know I'm nothing, still I found ways to achieve global peace. How did I achieved that? :) I'm surprised my self, I only made an intention, an intention that whatever happens, even if I have to work alone, I'll do it. Peace through peace, not a single bit of anything else.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
I started by my own self, of course I took help, here and there but always took the most difficult and tiring task myself. You will not believe, I've access even to Dr. A.Q. Khan. You might be wondering, that either, I'm insane, because people esp muslim should not share this kind of info in public,
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
But I'm not afraid as my conscious is clear, I mean peace not just for us but for enemies too. Someone must have to do what I'm doing. I'm using the same courage of muslims for peace as those muslim Terrorists are using for war.
by Spaitray on October 7th, 2009
I'm gonna flashback to Star Trek, an episode called "A Taste of Armageddon".
.
In this episode, Captain Kirk and crew come across a pair of planets warring against each other, wherein the war is fought hypothetically by computer and the calculated casualties are then herded off to disintegration chambers.
.
It's a "clean" war. No real bombs, no diseases, no physically destroyed cities. But Kirk destroys the computers used to run the "war". So now war becomes REAL. REAL bombs may fall on the cities, bringing all the horrors of war to life.
.
Then Kirk tells them the secret of peace:
.
"[War] is instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands! But we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers...but we're not going to kill...today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill...today!
.
Ultimately, that's all it takes: people saying "We're NOT going to kill TODAY."
by The Chief on October 7th, 2009
I don't recall that episode, not being much of a Trekkie.
I wonder what Spock thought given the history of the Vulcans though....
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 7th, 2009
I remember it... At least the part the Chief described.
.
I seem to remember a very good-looking girl being sent to the disintigration chambers - one that Kirk had come to know and ... love .... Wasn't she the daughter of the head of one of those planets? (You sure it was planets and not countries on the same planet?) Kirk kept her from going, and screwed up the whole "clean" war.
by BigDaddyBS on October 7th, 2009
Yes you are right, Chief. But there is a problem with those who are actually killing, that could be called madness, that each one thinks that the other one is evil and that the opposite should stop killing before I stops. No one is sacrificing by taking blame. Let me mention my side, the muslims, they think if they are completely right about what they are doing without even acknowledging that they are not using their minds, that there are ways for both parties to survive. We all have to live on this earth till a specified time. No one here is from outta space.
by Spaitray on October 8th, 2009
And as I researched, it is not that difficult to make peace, we got to eliminate selfishness. How is the question. This How is not that difficult if someone as us, use our brains and discuss then persue our big ones. Let me tell you what I'm doing in my own country and community. I'm doing multiple jobs at a time.1. I observe the needs and psyche of those groups which are actually participating in this war of today, call it terrorism. 2. I observed the needs of real public, their psyche, that why are they, as they are. 3. Then I think how to get rid of the problems and evil thoughts. 4. At the same time I meet or communicate and discuss with the people who are really caring about what is happening and those who are also doing what they could do. 5. I am trying to bring those people in communication with each other, because they could do great things once they unite. It is like creating a network of peoples with brains and balls.
by Spaitray on October 8th, 2009
And at last, I'm trying to learn about the needs and psyche of the other side, and think about ways how to find a middle way other than to solve the problem by hate, destruction and elimination of life. At the same time, I'm trying to find people within you, who are intellectuals and who could be given hope, who thinks before they act and not just follow, who have the power to tolerate discussion without fighting. And who could not tolerate to follow someone by blind faith. Who could help to get peace for their own people. Peace of not just outside but inside too. Who could give me advice.
by Spaitray on October 8th, 2009
In the journey, I'm going to teach my people the power of peace and of tolerance. I've done all of my home work and now started from my own town and I'm getting surprising results. And during all that work when I get some free time I'm also working on a shortest, straightest and easiest shortcut way to peace. A plan, where if every thing fails, I could use that by myself alone. And I've already passed big barriers in that one too. The only barrier is that I'm looking for some contacts in our own government and the right time. I'm studying the characters of different big names in our politics and of those who are working social work, not through media but through their family resources. Yes, it is a very tiring job but a man got to do what a man got to do.
by Spaitray on October 8th, 2009
I've tried American government too but they are, I guess too much afraid of muslims especially those with a beard. :) as I got. But I'm not hopeless, I will try again and again because if I get their attention then the job will become exponentially easy.
by Spaitray on October 8th, 2009
Oh, one more thing, I don't mind being called insane because the job what I do is not for sane people, every team member of mine is insane and abnormal in a sense that they do not believe upon the word impossible. ;)
by Spaitray on October 8th, 2009
The problem is, though, that what motivates one to behave a certain way is not the same thing that causes another to act a certain way.
.
Certainly selfishness is a root cause, perhaps even the biggest of them. But then so is fear, so is the hunger for power (which can be seen as selfish), so is unadulterated hatred, so are mundane aspects like land, food, better living, and so forth.
by The Chief on October 8th, 2009
As for insane or not:
.
One's definition of sanity depends entirely upon which side of the line one is standing on.
by The Chief on October 8th, 2009
Spaitray, you have made some great statements. In that they were honest ones, I wish you much success. I also know that it is not just about "religion" or even nationalism. The very mundane realities you mention are very important as well. There is tremendous wealth in the Middle East, but the people, for the most part, have been unable to share in it. This is not the fault of the West, the "customers", but the people seem to perceive that it is. Until they look honestly at their situation, they will probably always see the West as the "enemy", rather than looking at their own "leaders". And, as long as these elite can point to someone else as the source of any disatisfaction of the people with their lives, they can divert attention away from themselves. This is a very old and classic ploy of all dictatorships and oligarchies.
by Tom 47 is back in his bear COAT on October 8th, 2009
Imagine that! A minus five DR with no comment!
.
Tsk, tsk, tsk!
by The Chief on October 8th, 2009
I believe that that is that why we Americans haven't had another Civil War yet.
Blame Communism, Rock music, role-playing games, Iraq, Democrats....
Bread and circuses, pal, bread and circuses.
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 8th, 2009
And society. Don't forget to blame society!
by The Chief on October 8th, 2009
one of the beat reads I have had in a while.
From my own experience I believe this "eleventh dimension" is a plane where there no longer is such a thing as separateness as we know it because when I meditate at times I feel that I don't even have a body anymore and I feel the most indescribable feeling of peace that this 4 dimensional universe we inhabit does not have enough words to define and in this eleventh dimension only feelings hold the answers because when words are removed, those feelings have so much more meaning and power. They are not restricted and put in a box by definitions that even in their most complex and beautiful form still would not do them justice but in fact can at times play their part in distracting us from letting go and really feeling the magnitude of the truth without any boundaries.
Thanks for a unique perspective Cheif :)
by jesspants on October 8th, 2009
Personally, I feel that if you're counting dimensions enough to know you've hit 11 then you still have a ways to go before you achieve Enlightenment.
Spaitray - Nikola Tesla and Isaac Newton were both batshit-crazy too but that didn't keep them from achieving greatness.
Some people suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 8th, 2009
As far as being afraid of Muslims, here is a little perspective:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/08/muslim-population-islam-survey
Nearly 1.6 billion...
by 8 Jan 2004-10 Dec 2009 on October 8th, 2009
lol Jerv I am not counting dimensions that would indeed be silly. I just close my eyes and I don't think, only feel. I just think Chiefs theory is an interesting way of looking at things. My fave saying that sums this up is "the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon"
by jesspants on October 8th, 2009
Thank you, jesspants!
by The Chief on October 8th, 2009