I'm inclined to agree with you about the "dangers" of power that is heaped upon our CL's. But I feel like the place (AB) would be a madhouse if SOMEBODY wasn't monitoring the site. It appears that staff have all they can handle so I'm guessing CLs help the staff more than Baggers. Whether or not we should have CL or not, I would be afraid to say definitely one way or the other for reasons stated.

I like the CL's, Kev..I think they provide great help to AB staff who have a monumental amount of work to do 24/7. I think those who are here now in that capacity are doing a great job! I think we already have some members who do go on "troll patrols"..and we have some who do "positrolling" to offset the harm done by trolls. The CL's are okey-dokey in my book! Happy Wednesday, m'dear! :) ((hugs))

Fine with me. It would be nice if AB were spam and troll free. It would be great if people wouldn't get into fights that bring the whole bag down. Extreme power without checks and balances? I beg to differ. Rich reviews everything we submit and he has even disagreed with some of our calls and reversed decisions made by CLs. We can be penalty boxed like everyone else too. The thing that riles people is flagging. Flagging can be done by anybody, so it's a bit unfair to blame CLs for all of the flagged material here. We do not review the flags, that is done by staff moderators. We do not make decisions based on whims as asserted. We make decisions based on guidelines provided to us by Rich. We also make decisions based on feedback we receive from other users. If I get a ton of e-mail about a specific issue, I look into it and handle the situation as appropriate based on the guidelines. The only thing that is NOT checked by Rich is deletion of comments. Not a huge amount of power there IMHO. Most of what is removed is just vitriolic tantrum throwing and severely offensive content. One would think that adults could argue without resorting to calling each other nasty names, but that isn't the case. EDIT: I wanted to address some of the concerns about comment removal and a few other things that have come up here. When comments are deleted it is for a VERY good reason. It is also very rare that this is done. I have removed comments that were racial/sexual orientation slurs, threatening (one person expressed a desire to rape somebody's daughter for example), or extremely offensive or graphic in detail. Usually, the person the comments were directed at is hurt and does not feel comfortable with all of AB seeing such nasty things and a CL or the staff is contacted. A lot of people feel like it's censorship, but the reality is that the site has Terms of Use and certain expectations for appropriate behavior. If that rubs anyone the wrong way, they can always ask the staff to relax those standards. I have seen some very ugly and hurtful stuff and think it is good that we have the ability to delete those comments. I also agree that it might not be a bad idea for there to be some accountability for comment removal. All other CL activity is closely monitored by AB-Staff and this should be no exception. However, it is rare and the staff has enough to review as it is (flags, feedback, etc.). Having the ability to recategorized instantly is necessary because a lot of content that is appropriate for AB4Adults, but not for AB, ends up in the wrong place. It needs to be moved ASAP. I'm not exaggerating when I say that my in-box gets flooded when this happens. There is nothing wrong with Adult content as long as it is in the right place. If you feel that the role of CLs should be amended to only patrol for trolls and spammers, feel free to suggest it. That is 90% of what we do anyway.

I think it may be for the best to have the patrolling of the site be more a neighborhood watch project than a CL situation. I was unaware until you posted this question, or more particularly till some of the comments were made that CL's could erase comments. I thought the ability to do that was limited to staff. That explains some things. I don't agree with comment removing abilities being in the hands of fellow users who may, in all likelihood, be involved in or friends with someone involved in the comment thread. Perception is formed on ALL the comments not just those that have been allowed to remain.

Hi Kevin, I agree strongly in doing away with Community Leaders all together. In fact, Shopping Sheryl and I were emailing today and she said that she has PROOF in emails from some CL's that they do not treat all users fairly across the board. This was very disappointing news to me :(

Since I was recently a victim of a vicious troll who claimed I had died, I vote no. We need CLs. I wish we had more of them.

First people are complaining that there aren't enough of them whenever trolls and such happen when there aren't many of us here and then others want them all gone? I'm confused. I have never been afraid of any power rush or it going to my head, like I don't have any self-control or that all my fairness and past reputation will be overcome one day because I've been chosen as a "room monitor/janitor" for this site by the Staff. If anything I am very conscience of the 'power' and try hard NOT to use it if possible. But if the need arises, I don't hold back from keeping this site a troll free spam free site as well as I can do. We are answerable to AB-Rich who we all, I hope, are in contact with for a good part of the each day here. When we are uncertain about things we can ask fro help from each other and from Rich. He has given us guidelines and recommendations to go by. I for one use them and abide by them. It's hard sometimes to try to keep everyone happy, especially sometimes when friends are hurting or feeling like you should do more but if it isn't something I can or should do, I try to just do what I can and ask fro forgiveness for not being able to do more. I like to give people ample warning before I do something drastic, if there is time. But if they are running rampant all over and I can't keep up with them, I will either PB box them for a short time or ask for help from Rich who has other ways of dealing with things. And then Rich gets notified and can choose to lengthen or shorten the fine. If we have certain recommendations because of things we have seen, he listens and uses all the info to do what he does. I think most of the CLs I've seen work do a good fair job and try very hard to be equal to everyone.

I don't have any problems with our CL's , every time they have been there to fix up things and help sort out trolls and spammers and out and out fools who come on AB to drag a fellow ABers names through the mud, while I think that having the power to wipe out comments is a little extreme and don't agree with that ...its part of their job and I applaud them for having the guts to do such a hard and time consuming job

Kev, in some respects I agree. I only removed a comment one time, on the request of a person who accidentally revealed private information about another member. I don't believe in interfering with the freedom of speech. I try to go by the terms of use, and I interpret that in favor of the site members. Would it surprise you to know that CLs frequently consult each other and AB-Rich about p-box decisions? It's not something we do lightly, even though my email is stuffed with requests to p-box this or that person. I don't want to have power over anyone but me. I wouldn't mind handing in my CL badge one bit. I don't think it makes me more important or "better" than anyone else.

I think Community Leaders are needed. There can never be enough staff to deal with inappropriate conduct 24/7 and so people who have shown themselves to be mature and trustworthy are asked to help out. Having been a moderator at other communities, usually moderators are held to a slightly higher standard of behavior and normally when a moderator abuses the privilege of power they are removed from that position fairly quickly. As for worries that a moderator can be biased, that is true, but staff can be biased too, after all they are human and also form opinions about users. If I felt a CL or staff member was being biased, my way of dealing with it would be to make my case to another staff member or CL for resolution. I appreciate that AB is moderated well, it makes for a pleasant and enjoyable site. Being a moderator can be an under-appreciated role because you can't please all the people all the time. Kudos to the AB CL team!!

Ok, well as recently becoming a CL I can tell you that it's really not all that much power. Yes, we can PB but Rich can always overturn that. Basically, we just folllow the guidelines that Rich has set for us and try and rock the boat as little as possible. I can tell you from this evening alone there were 7 spammers and one VERY nasty troll....luckily they were dealt with before too much trouble was started. If there were no CLs this problem would most likely be snowballing until staff became available at some reasonable hour.

Not only should we keep them, we need more of them. I'm a Y/A "refugee" like a lot of ABers are. If they had more CLs....or any customer service at all, the trolls wouldn't run rampant and decent, legit users would never get suspended for all the false abuse reports the trolls send. No matter what site like this (or chat room) there is, with no customer service, the "bad apples" will ruin it for everyone.

Do away with the DR's and you you do away with the trolls too. If the administration at Answer Bag would do their jobs they wouldn't need CL's. It's not like they don't make enough money to hire a monitor. It's greed. Pure and simple.

Youre a clown.

I think we should have more CL's and the troll patrol seems like a good idea.