Why does Islam accept Jesus as a good prophet when it is recorded that Jesus claimed to be God?

Comments

• that is rediculous he does so throughout the New Testament. His reference to himself as the Son of Man comes from Daniel 7 and is a blatant claim to be the Messiah. John 17 "Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by comleting the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Only God was present before the world began.

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  by smsedmc on November 22nd, 2006

• If everyone believed the new testament to be a true unaltered account of the facts, then I would say you are correct...however, there have many revisions, additions and deletions. Islam exists partially because of this.

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  by mysticdeliria on November 23rd, 2006

• You can also look at John 20:28-29, where Jesus confirms the disciple Thomas' claim of Jesus being God.

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  by smsedmc on November 29th, 2006

• Again, not convincing to someone who doesn't believe in those books. Try quoting a book that is not linked to the Judeo-Christian Religion...If everyone agreed with the Bible, we'd all be christians.

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  by mysticdeliria on November 29th, 2006

• okay, from that perspective how can you believe anything from historical accounts. How do we know that Plato or Aristotle taught what we hold them to; they didn't write this, their followers did. There are more manuscripts for the Bible than any other historical text, by several thousand, and every single one of them makes the same claims of the deity of Christ. Yes there are scribal errors in these text, but no error ever found in any of the text has one iota to do with any theological teaching of Jesus. The Bible was written by people that followed Jesus for 3 1/2 years, listened to his teachings and recorded them, their is no better source for what he believed than that, and if you don't believe that then you shouldn't have enough faith to trust anything that your world history teachers have taught you at school because the evidence is overwhelming in support of the faithfulness of the Bible; whether or not you believe in it or not. What you believe about the Bible makes no difference on whether it is true, all we can base that on is historical evidence, which says it is faithful to Jesus' teaching.

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  by smsedmc on December 1st, 2006

• Then why aren't more people in the world Christians? Why are people converting to Islam in droves? It's the fasting growing religion in the world, and the two very basic differences between Christianity and Islam are 1. Muslims don't believe Jesus to be the son of God. and 2. Mohammed was a prophet. The question was, why do muslims accept Jesus as a prophet when he claimed to be the son of God. My answer, muslims don't believe he claimed to be the son of the God, that's why. You can quote as much scripture as you want, but to convince a Muslim you'll have to quote the Qur'an.

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  by mysticdeliria on December 2nd, 2006

• the Quran was compiled by people that did not know Jesus, and wasn't even written until over 600 years after Jesus died, the Bible was written by the people that followed Jesus, and actually talked to him. Logic would hold that it would be the more reliable source. I can compare the Qur'an and show you the differences and show you how it contradicts the Bible in numerous areas (not just on Jesus). To follow your logic, if someone were to say that the world was flat, I would have to prove them wrong on their own logic, and ignore all external evidence that contradicts them. The Qur'an contradicts itself several times, just not on it's belief of Jesus being a prophet, but that does not mean it is correct, especially since a more reliable source (written by his own disciples) says he is God.

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  by smsedmc on December 11th, 2006

• WOW! You really don't seem to understand the question, do you? If you simply paused for a second and stopped trying to prove how superior your religion is, you might actually notice that you are debating something that is ENTIRELY off topic! The question has nothing to do with the differences between the bible and the Qur'an, it has to do with one belief of a religion that you seem intent to prove is somehow invalid. I am not even a muslim, and I am offended by the way you seem to attack and attempt to demean the muslim people and way of life all over this site. You are exactly what's wrong with this world, you spread ethnocentrism and intolerance to make yourself feel superior. Why don't you take a look at the similarities between the religions rather than the differences? Why don't you try to see that essentially all religions preach the same thing, peace, tolerance, the pursuit of knowledge, and devotion to God through kindness to his people?

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  by mysticdeliria on December 11th, 2006

• well actually I am on topic because the religions have differing views of Jesus, they are conflicting and both cannot be right. They draw their views from their respective scriptures, so to show that one view is right over the other you have to prove which book is more reliable. It is not a matter of bigotry, it is simply that people don't look at the issue, and try to intermingle everything to paint a pretty picture, it just can't be done. I know full well the similarities of the religions, as well as the differences, and although their are similarities, they are at a very basic level. It is not an issue of intolerance, but I just want people to actually think about what they believe.

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  by smsedmc on December 11th, 2006

• You really think that you, smsedc, on answerbag, is going to somehow "prove which book is more reliable"? Well, if you were able to do that, you'd have accomplished something that God himself has not yet done! Good Luck with that endeavour. Why do you need to prove anything, the question doesn't ask "is the Christian view or Muslim view of Jesus more reliable"? The question asks specifically about what Muslims believe about Jesus, not what the Christians, Hindus, Mormons or anyone else believes. It is no one's place to prove the validity of any other religion's books, that will be sorted out in the end. For now, just concentrate on those basic similarities and understand that the muslim people have a right to their book and opinion as you are yours, and whether Jesus is God or Prophet we will all find out for sure when he returns.

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  by mysticdeliria on December 11th, 2006

• calm down. Nobody is being attacked here. I know I won't prove anything, but maybe I might get one person to step outside of the box and think about why they believe what they do. If a Muslim reads what I say and does some research to find a valid answer for them, great, at least they have a reason for what they believe. It is the responsibility of everyone to prove to themselves the validity of any religion, or else we would just follow what the next person says. If you don't have a reason for believing what you believe then why believe it. I never said the Muslims don't have a reason to believe what they believe, I just want them to see both sides of the coin. Every religion is mutually exclusive, if one is right then all of the others are wrong, that cannot be denied. Any attempt to combine religions doesn't understand the premise for either one of them.

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  by smsedmc on December 11th, 2006

• Regarding all the bible quoting for answers to questions not pertaining to Christianity, I will quote ChrisDG in his response to bow2thelord's postings "...but you have to understand that for the majority of people, the Bible is less important than a London Underground train timetable." Particularly to those who believe Jesus to be a good prophet.

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  by mysticdeliria on December 14th, 2006

• And since this conversation is falling on deaf ears (both of ours), I say that we agree to disagree on this issue and move on. I don't agree that any one religion has to proven right (I think that there is validity in all religions and I believe that one day we will see that the truth is actually a grand mixture of everyone getting it a little right, but no one religion will emerge as champion) and you seem to believe that only you are right. Fine. Let's leave it at that, good luck to you. If you'd like to continue this conversation further, please email me.

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  by mysticdeliria on December 14th, 2006

• I'm sorry to say, but Jesus was no God, nor the son of. He was simply a man inspired by a god's lessons, who could teach moral lessons of life. It is time, and religious zealots who made him into the son of God. Quote your Bible all you want. I don't see how anyone can trust that damn thing after its been altered so much by humanity over the centuries. And before you get started--no, I'm not Muslim, not am I taking a Muslim stance on the issue. Its called common sense.

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  by Ahnighito on December 27th, 2006

• Have you read the Bible, Jesus did not claim to be GOD. But claimed to be the Son of GOD John 10.36

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  by Alfred Brown on January 3rd, 2007

• Alfred: As a seminary student and missionary, I have read the Bible several times over, and he does make the claim of being God. He refers to himself as the Son of Man, which is a reference Daniel 7 and to being the Messiah (which is also affirmed by John 6:29); which according to Isaiah 7:14 is Immanuel literally 'God with us', meaning God in human form. This is confirmed by John 6:33 & 38 where Jesus makes the claim of coming down from Heaven to give life to the world.
  
  John 20:27-28 Jesus affirms Thomas for calling Jesus God, and blesses others to come that make the same claim. John 8:58 most scholars believe Jesus' claim of being 'I Am' is the greek translation of YHWH, a very blatant claim of being God. If this is not the case he is at least making the claim of being over 4,000 years old. This combined with John 6:39 where he says he will come back to raise up those who believe in him shows that he believed he was eternal in existence.
  
  Yes, Jesus does claim to be God.

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  by smsedmc on January 3rd, 2007

• mysticdeliria: "Jesus never claimed to be God, or his son for that matter." ... on WHAT grounds can you make this claim?! The Gospels of the New Testament were written down as little as 20 YEARS after the death/resurrection of Christ Jesus ... the Qur'an was written down 700 YEARS after the death/resurrection of Christ Jesus! ... How can Muslims know (assuming that Muslims reject the Gospels of Christ Jesus) what Christ Jesus did or did not say?! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 4th, 2007

• I merely stated the muslim belief (as the question asked). Why do they accept him as a good prophet, because they do not believe he claimed to be the son of God. Very simple. Thank you.

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  by mysticdeliria on February 5th, 2007

• mysticdeliria: "... because they do not believe he claimed to be the son of God." ... well, I disputed your answer because you said "Jesus never claimed to be God" rather than "THEY SAY THAT Jesus never claimed to be God" ... so it was more of a PERSONAL opinion/argument ... rather than a stating of the facts. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• No problem, I just assumed that since it was a question on the muslim position the answer would be taken in such a context. It is not a personal opinion.

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  by mysticdeliria on February 6th, 2007

• That's bull, read all the gospels, i know he mentions it in there somewhere.

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  by needhelpbadly on February 7th, 2007

• needhelpbadly, since this is a question about MUSLIM beliefs, the gospels will not help with the answer. You have to read the book that the muslims believe, not what the christians believe.

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  by mysticdeliria on February 7th, 2007

• i agree mystic. why is there so much bible quoting for a question that asked about moslems?

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  by tututut on February 7th, 2007

• If Jesus did not claim that He was The Son of God who came to redeem us by becoming the ultimate Paschal Lamb, then what exactly did He teach? If you don't trust The New Testament accounts of all this, then why do you believe He even existed at all? And why were there so many willing to die to spread this message, if it wasn't true? Peter was an eyewitness to all these things and was willing to get crucified upside down to propagate this message. Paul who was a great persecutor of Christians before he was converted was beheaded.What was their motivation? They weren't promised 72 virgins, I know that!

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  by Tahoe45 on February 18th, 2010

• I think the issue is as Christians we follow the New & Old Testiments and the new Testiment is where we gain our Faith that Jesus is God or part of the God Head.
  
  Muslims follow the Qur'an, which does not follow the New Testiment it has its own doctrine that the Muslims follow. I would say from what is being said in there Jesus is probably looked at as a prophet rather than what the Christians as myself believe.
  
  http://christianfindings.blogspot.com/

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  by wanelad on February 19th, 2010

Comments

• Thank you.

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  by Ahnighito on December 27th, 2006

• muslim2: "How is he God when he says: 'I can of mine own self do NOTHING ...' - JOHN 5:30" ... you really know how to take a verse out of context ... don't you?! ... "'My [Jesus] sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; AND NO ONE WILL SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY [Jesus] HAND. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; AND NO ONE IS ABLE TO SNATCH THEM OUT OF THE FATHER'S HAND. I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.'" - John 10:27-30 ... "HE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE HEREAFTER: ..." ... "Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." - Philippians 2:5-8 ... so ... Although being equal with God, Christ Jesus HUMBLED himself ... and took on the form of a bond-servant ... and thus, took on the limitations of humanity ... WHILE AT THE SAME TIME BEING COMPLETELY ETERNAL AND EQUAL TO GOD IN NATURE! ... this is why we say: "100% man, 100% God" ... Also, consider John 4 ... when Christ Jesus was talking to the Samaritan woman at the well ... and he KNEW that she had "five husbands" ... and she was astonished that he knew of her secrets ... and she said "Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; ..." ... Therefore, Christ Jesus was limited in his foreknowledge ... out of humility and obedience to the Father ... which has to do with POSITIONAL equality/inequality ... but Christ Jesus is equal with God in every way! ... which has to do with NATURE equality/inequality. These are two VERY different things! ... "IMAGINE A "GOD" BEING TEMPTED by THE DEVIL" ... Christ Jesus was tempted in his HUMAN FLESH ... but ... remember ... Christ Jesus NEVER SINNED! ... "You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin." - 1 John 3:5 ... THEREFORE, Christ Jesus NEVER SINNED ... and was NEVER GOING TO SIN ... but rather was TEMPTED ... or TESTED ... by Satan in the desert ... to demonstrate, to us and for us, the superiority of God's word ... and the demonstration of using it to triumph over Evil. Therefore, Christ Jesus REMAINS the Lord of Lords ... AMEN! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• Thank you, Muslim2. Salaam Alaikom.

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  by Theby on July 29th, 2008

Comments

• Disregard this one, it was supposed to be comment to a previous answer, not a new answer entirely.

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  by mysticdeliria on December 11th, 2006

Comments

• Alatea: "Jesus never said the exact words "I Am God."" ... "Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."" - John 8:58 ... please take a look at the following chart: http://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/deityofJesus.shtml ... "Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified." ... Yes, but Muslims ... or rather Islam ... are/is separated from Christ Jesus by 700 YEARS or so ... so what qualifications do Muslims, or rather Islam, have for judging whether or not Christ Jesus was crucified?! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 4th, 2007

• Because Allah told Gabriel who recited to Mohammed (PBUH). And Allah is all-knowing.

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  by Theby on July 29th, 2008

Comments

• Jesus is the Son, because he was filled with the Spirit. All who receive him and beleive that GOD resurrected him can receive the Spirit and become Sons of GOD.

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  by Alfred Brown on January 3rd, 2007

• Sons or children of God. Well I will be His daughter then.

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  by FineBalance . on January 3rd, 2007

• FineBalance: "Jesus Himself never claimed to be God." ... really?! What about when Christ Jesus said "I AM" in John 8:58? What about when Christ Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." in Revelation 1:17? What about when Thomas calls Christ Jesus "ho the-os", or THE GOD, in John 20:28 and Christ Jesus COMMENDS HIM FOR SAYING IT?! ... these are just a FEW examples of how Christ Jesus claims his divinity ... Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 4th, 2007

• Your "thank yous" are so snippy and horrifying. Are you not able to discuss this topic without resorting to that?

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  by debsmooth on February 12th, 2007

• The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1-14, Hebrews 1:8).

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  by ...trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. on July 1st, 2007

Comments

• I believe the passage you are referring to is when Jesus is approached by the rich young man in Matthew 19:16-17 which reads, "What good thing must I do to get eternal life?' 'Why do you ask me about what is good?' Jesus replied. 'There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.'" . The young man realized he wasn't willing to give up his riches for God, so he walked away. He didn't have the faith to follow Christ; which is the requirement for heaven as we see in verses 28-30; as well as his repeated claims throughout the New Testament.

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  by smsedmc on November 22nd, 2006

• No, I know what I was talking about.
  
  Mark 10:18 (New King James Version)
  Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
  
  18 So Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
  
  If he was God he woukd have said that? Lol. Of course not.

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  by muslim2 on November 26th, 2006

• sorry I was looking at the account in Matthew which is of the same story. The general response from Jesus when asked a question, was to ask another to get the response from them. This question was a way to make the man realize that he was saying Jesus is God, which Jesus makes explicit throughout the Gospels. You can't just look at one sentence and base your whole theology off that, you have to look at it in context of the rest of his teachings.

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  by smsedmc on November 28th, 2006

• Jesus never made it clear he was God my brother. He got down on his knees and prayed and cried and prayed to God when he said why have u forsaken me. if he was God he would pray to himself like that? when asked about judgment day he said that that he does not know of, only God, the father, the metaphorical father of him.

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  by muslim2 on November 28th, 2006

• The prayer you reference ('God, my God, why have you forsaken me') is from Matthew 27:46 and was while he was on the cross (not on his knees as you say), and is a reference to the prophetic passage of Psalm 22, which describes the torture that the Messiah would have to endure. And the statement Jesus makes about the last day is reported in Matt. 24 begining in 36, where Jesus makes it explicit that it is the Son of Man (a name he refers to himself as, and a fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel 7) as the one to come to take the believers to Heaven, a heavy claim of immortality for a mere human.

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  by smsedmc on November 29th, 2006

• for another claim that Jesus makes for being immortal look at John 8:54-59, where Jesus point blank says, in his own words, that he was in existence before Abraham was born, and that he actually met Abraham (by the way, this is written in the Greek, which doesn't carry the same meaning the word would have in its original Hebrew that he was speaking (since he was speaking to Jews), so we have no proof, but going by the reaction of those trying to stone him, and the fact that it was said at the same point he was claiming to be immortal (or at least prior to Abraham who was alive 4,000 years before him), it is believed that when he says 'I Am', in verse 58, he actually says the tetragrammaton, so is a claim of being YHWH).

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  by smsedmc on November 29th, 2006

• muslim2: "Its also in the bible that Jesus was told "you are good" and he said "why do you say I am good? Only God is good!" This proves the Islamic claim." Christ Jesus made this statement because he knew that the man who had spoken to him was not intending on attributing his words to God ... but rather to someone who he had perceived as being a mere man ... Christ Jesus was NOT denying his divinity ... but rather, through his knowledge of the mans heart and his intentions, corrects him. The Holy Scriptures do NOT contradict themselves ... so when Christ Jesus says "I AM" in John 8:58 ... he is using the SAME NAME that Jehovah God used for Himself when speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai ... thus CALLING HIMSELF GOD! When Thomas calls Christ Jesus "My Lord and my God!" (or "ho the-os" ... which means THE GOD) in John 20:28 ... Christ Jesus COMMENDS HIM [Thomas] for saying/believing in him in that way. When the apostle John writes about Christ Jesus in John 1:1 ... he says "and the Word was God." ... meaning he [the Word, or Christ Jesus] existed in the SAME QUALITY AND ESSENCE as God. When the apostle Paul writes about Christ Jesus in Hebrew 1:3 ... he says "And He [Christ Jesus] is the radiance of His [God] glory and the exact representation of His [God]nature, ..." ... If Christ Jesus were to deny his deity (specifically in the verse that you have provided above), then why would he have AFFIRMED his deity in so many other places?! So, you see, you have based your beliefs upon a misunderstanding of the words of Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus was and is and ALWAYS will be the King of Kings ... the Lord of Lords ... "ho the-os"! AMEN! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 4th, 2007

• Muslim2, Well said.

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  by Theby on July 29th, 2008

Comments

• The Bible does not say Jesus is GOD. This is False teaching.

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  by Alfred Brown on January 3rd, 2007

• dathoodchik: "Muslims don't believe that the Bible is in it's original form. They believe that Jesus was a prophet but the Bible was changed to say he was God." ... even though there are over 5,000 ancient Greek New Testament manuscripts, ranging in dates ... from as early as 125 A.D. (fragment of the Gospel of John) to as late as 1098 A.D. (Codex Alexandrinus) ... ALL of which AGREE with one another! In other words ... ALL 5,000 ANCIENT GREEK NEW TESTAMENT MANUSCRIPTS ARE CONFLICT FREE! ... and therefore, it would be ridiculous to suggest that a 7th Century Arab, i.e. Muhammad, would know more about the true nature of Christ Jesus than the disciples and apostles THEMSELVES (who WALKED the Earth with Christ Jesus) ... and whose words are carefully recorded in the WELL PRESERVED and WELL DOCUMENTED Gospels that we have today! Therefore, the Qur'an is WRONG! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• Alfred Brown: "The Bible does not say Jesus is GOD. This is False teaching." ... please take a look at the following chart ... which carefully outlines the evidences for the deity of Christ Jesus ... http://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/deityofJesus.shtml ... Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• Amen, brian_griffith! Jesus Christ is JEHOVAH.

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  by ...trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. on July 1st, 2007

• dathoodchik, You have very good information.

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  by Theby on July 29th, 2008

Comments

Comments

• Alfred Brown: "Jesus never calls himself GOD." ... Really?! How about "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'" - John 8:58 ... or when Thomas says to Jesus "My Lord and my God!" ("ho the-os" ... or THE GOD) - John 20:28 ... and then Jesus AFFIRMS HIM FOR SAYING/BELIEVING IT! ... there are PLENTY MORE! Sorry. The deity of Christ Jesus is taught in the Holy Scriptures. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• Brian_Griffth the verse you quote John 8:58 Jesus did not state that he was god, in fact 8:54 Jesus states: If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God he refers to GOD as father again. In 8:58 you are assuming something that is not stated or implied, in this verse Jesus is indicating that GOD predestined him before Abraham was born and that GOD allowed Abraham to see his day. GOD the creator and source of all life has a plan and purpose for all of us. In John 20.28 you misquote when you say that Jesus affirms Thomas s statement. Jesus did not respond to Thomas s statement my Lord my God he responded to the fact that Thomas when told of the resurrection he did not believe without seeing and touching Jesus( 20:27). to this Jesus responded Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. . About Thomas s statement, anyone can say anything about anybody that does not make it true. Thomas did not believe that Jesus was resurrected with out seeing and touching him. After seeing and touching Jesus he called him his God. Thomas did not say that Jesus was God, he said Jesus was his God. I believe that Thomas s faith continued to grow but at this point his belief was incorrect just as his failure to believe in the resurrection. There is no higher authority than GOD stating that Jesus is his son (Mark 3:16), and Jesus stating that he is the Son (John 10:36).
  
  I pray that your eyes be open to this deception and that you only speak what is written not false interpretations, in the name of Christ.
  In closing if Jesus was GOD then you believe that GOD died on the cross. This is inconceivable. The Creator is not a man that can die, he is more than life since he is the creator of life. Men die, Jesus the man died on the cross. In the garden of Gethsemane , Jesus told the disciples ( Mathew26:38): My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death . He then prayed to the father (Mathew 26:39) O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. . Jesus the man submitted his will to GOD ready to complete the plan. Jesus cried out on the cross (Mark 15:34) my GOD, my GOD , why has thou forsaken me . This is a man that could no longer find GOD. GOD removed his spirit from him such that he could take on the sins of the world and die. On the third day GOD reached down and returned him to life. He ascended to sit on the right hand of the father, waiting for us to come to the unity of the faith.
  

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  by Alfred Brown on February 6th, 2007

• Alfred Brown: "Jesus did not respond to Thomas' statement "my Lord and my God", he responded to the fact that Thomas, when told of the resurrection, did not believe without seeing and touching Jesus." ... You are only HALF correct! Thomas called Christ Jesus "ho the-os" ... or THE God ... and Christ Jesus DID NOT rebuke him ... if Christ Jesus WAS NOT God ... then he would have rebuked him. When John bowed down to the angel in Revelation 22:9, then angel said "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God." ... so ... when Thomas said "My Lord and my God!" ... Christ Jesus AFFIRMS his statement by saying "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." ... or in other words ... YES, I am your Lord and your God ... and YES I am resurrected. ... "Thomas did not say that Jesus was God, he said Jesus was his God." ... WHAT?! NO! You are VERY wrong! ... Thomas said "ho the-os" ... which means THE God ... there is only ONE God ... not many! ... so when Thomas said "... my God" ... he is attributing the title of THE God to Christ Jesus. ... "In closing if Jesus was GOD then you believe that GOD died on the cross. This is inconceivable." ... Christ Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God. Christ Jesus' body, or his HUMANITY, died on the cross as a sin offering for us ... but Christ Jesus' spirit NEVER became unequal with God (consider John 1:1 which says "and the Word was God." ... which is lacking the article "ho" ... which communicates the QUALITY and ESSENCE of what it is describing ... rather than attributing a title. i.e. THE God ... so Christ Jesus is BOTH in quality and essence God ("the-os") ... and THE God ("ho the-os")) ... because that would be impossible. ... on another note ... if Christ Jesus isn't God ... and thus having a beginning ... then how could he be ETERNAL?! ... Micah 5:2 and Isaiah 9:6 CLEARLY define the soon and coming Messiah as being ETERNAL ... or BEGINNINGLESS . ... "Jesus, the man, submitted his will to GOD ready to complete the plan ..." ... YES! You are correct! ... Christ Jesus "who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." - Phillipians 2:6-7 ... Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 7th, 2007

• Brian_Griffith: I will respond to any scripture you quote, and attempt to remove any deceptions. Would you please address if you believe GOD when he states in (Mark:3:17) lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased Do you believe Jesus when he states .( John 10:36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemies; because I said, I am the Son of God? Simply stated, without assumption, directly stated from GOD identifying Jesus as his son. Jesus states that GOD sanctified and sent him into the world as the Son of GOD. This is affirmation clearly stated. This is what you should repeat, not false assumptions in attempt to deduce from scripture what is not clearly stated and actually contradicts what is clearly stated. I will go further and state that doctrine written or spoken contradicting these scriptures is false. The letters of John speak in detail about false doctrine. Believe me there many more verses, which support this. It comes down to if you believe what is clearly stated in the Word from the mouth of GOD and his son Jesus.
  In addition, if you go through the context of John 10:36., They accused Jesus as blasphemies because he said he was the son of GOD, them being unknowledgeable of the Son, They believed he was calling himself GOD violating the first commandment( (Deuteronomy 5:7) He clarified that he was not GOD but the Son of GOD. To say he is GOD is to blaspheme, this is why Jesus quickly clarified his identity.
  
  I also want to present Mathew 16:15
  He (Jesus) said unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
  16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
  17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
  As you can see it is clearly stated, Jesus had no problem affirming Peter when he called him the Christ , the Son of God. This is an affirmation.
  
  Now Concerning Thomas. I assume you can agree that Jesus did not affirm Thomas statement.about Jesus being his God. But actually Jesus did not respond to the statement. You assume that his lack of response was an affirmation. Oh contraire, this is not correct. Once again a false assumption. What is clearly stated that Thomas did not believe without seeing that Jesus was resurrected, and would not believe unless he saw and touched him. Jesus response was: Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. .
  Jesus rebuked Thomas; he just did it with encouragement, and spoke to all who should read this scripture through time. To paraphrase Jesus is saying the only reason you believe is because you see me. To be blessed you must believe without seeing. Jesus rebuked him; clearly to be called not blessed because of unbelief is a rebuke.
  
  Actually putting Thomas in perspective, Jesus was his teacher, Thomas, a student very young in faith, standing before the only Son of GOD at that time. Thomas s only connection to GOD was through Jesus. Jesus clearly told the disciples that he was the Son of God (Mathew 16:15.) Thomas, not filled with the Spirit, Pentecost had not yet occurred, not believing in the resurrection, as those in the Temple( John 10:36) did not know the difference between the Son and the Father. His Statement that Jesus is his GOD is, incorrect just as the statement of his unbelief.. I take the word of Jesus the teacher, The Son of GOD, over the word of the confused student, as you should. Therefore you should assume that Jesus did not repeat at that time that he is the Son but addressed the most important problem, Thomas s unbelief.. It is the most important problem because it is impossible to please GOD without faith (Hebrews 11:6). Faith being (Hebrews:11:1): the substance of things hoped for, the evidence(belief) of things not se

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  by Alfred Brown on February 12th, 2007

• Brian_Griffith You are making statements which are not stated in scripture.and therefore incorrect ... Christ Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God. Christ Jesus' body, or his HUMANITY, died on the cross as a sin offering for us ... but Christ Jesus' spirit NEVER became unequal with God (consider John 1:1 which says "and the Word was God."
  
  Lets go to the scripture John1:1. If you read the scripture it will clearly states the meaning, there is no need to deduce or assume. If you make an assumption if must validate scrpture wich is clearly stated. Jesus states that he is the Son of GOD, not GOD (John 10.36). GOD states that Jesus is his Son (Mark 3.16).
  
  John1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  The deception and false doctrine taught here and I assume you are referring that Jesus is the Word. Thus Jesus must be GOD. True the Word is GOD. The misconception is that Jesus is the Word.. Jesus is not the Word. If you notice that statement John 1:1: does not mention Jesus or Christ.
  
  John 1:14 and John 1:17 clarifies the deference between the WORD and Jesus
  
  John1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
  
  John1:17: For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
  18: No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
  
  1:14 states the Word made flesh is the begotten of the father or the Son of GOD. 1:17 further clarifies that the spirit of Jesus was in the spirit body (bosom) of GOD. When GOD spoke the WORD concerning Jesus (declared the Son of GOD) and Jesus was born(made flesh). The WORD is the spoken words of GOD. When GOD speaks things happen. If you read genesis GOD spoke the WORD to create all things with the statement and God said . (Geneses 1:3,1:6,1:9,1:11,1:19 etc) also Hebrews 11:3 describes this process. For those who think that the WORD/GOD became flesh you are mistaken. John clearly states that Jesus came in the flesh (1 John 4:2), Thus the WORD/GOD made Jesus a man called the Son of GOD. GOD is the source of all life. Our spirits were present with GOD and he called us forth (James 1:18)
  
  If you continue Once again John the Baptist bares witness to the Son of God (John1:32-1:34)
  :32: And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
  33: And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
  34: And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
  
  Concerning Philippians 2:6-8
  2:6: Who (Jesus), being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
  7: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
  8: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
  
  This scripture is describing how GOD sent Jesus his Son into the world as a man.
  This scripture is describing Jesus s spirit as being present with GOD or in the Spirit body of GOD (Form). Once again GOD is the source of all life. Our spirits were present with GOD. You are confusing a spirit being present with GOD as GOD. Further more Jesus did not consider stealing equality with GOD, or competing with GOD, but became a man and obedient to GOD s plan.
  
  

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  by Alfred Brown on February 12th, 2007

• Alfred Brown: "True the Word is GOD. The misconception is that Jesus is the Word. Jesus is not the Word." ... Sir, you are BADLY mistaken! I am glad that you recognize that the word is God! ... but you must understand that the Holy Scriptures CLEARLY teach that the Logos, or the Word, is Christ Jesus PRE-incarnate. "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14 ... now WHO "became flesh, and dwelt among us"? WHO was "begotten from the Father"? Christ Jesus did/was. Therefore, Christ Jesus, ... or the Word, was/is God. The TITLE of "Son of God" does not denote QUALITY ... but rather POSITION. Christ Jesus is at "the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Hebrews 1:3), ... meaning that he is the heir to his Fathers throne (Hebrews 1:2 ) ... while still remaining EQUAL to the Father in every way (John 1:1). For example, Christ Jesus (or the Messiah) is ETERNAL (Isaiah 9:6, Micah 5:2), he is BEFORE ALL THINGS and ALL THINGS have been created BY him, THROUGH him and FOR him (Colossians 1:16-17), he is the Word who was/is in quality and essence God (John 1:1) ... ("And the Word became flesh ..." ... the Word being ETERNAL God ... became flesh. Christ Jesus REMAINED God before, during and after his incarnation as a human being.), he is THE GOD (John 20:28), he is the EXACT representation of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3) ... etc. Therefore, Christ Jesus is IN QUALITY God, but IN POSITION the Son of God. Get it?! ... "The WORD is the spoken words of GOD. When GOD speaks things happen." ... I agree! Christ Jesus, the Logos ... or the Word, is the spoken Word of God! "For by Him all things were created" - Colossians 1:16 ... so Christ Jesus, the Logos ... or the Word, SPOKE ... and "all things were created". ... "Concerning Philippians 2:6-8 2:6: Who (Jesus), being in the form of God ... This scripture is describing how GOD sent Jesus his Son into the world as a man." ... YES! I agree with you. "although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." - Philippians 2:6-7... so ... although Christ Jesus existed in the form of God ... he did not consider his equality with God something that he would not set aside (NOT give up!) ... so that he could come into the world as a SERVANT ... obeying his Father, whom he is EQUAL TO in every way, in order that he may be a "ransom for many." ... "This scripture is describing Jesus' spirit as being present with GOD or in the Spirit body of GOD (Form). Once again GOD is the source of all life. Our spirits were present with GOD. You are confusing a spirit being present with GOD as GOD." ... No sir, unfortunately you are confusing "our spirits" being "PRESENT with God" ... and being "EQUAL with God" confused. We (humans) are NOT equal with God ... but Christ Jesus, according to the Holy Scriptures, IS equal with God ... in every way. Therefore, Christ Jesus was and is God. "Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

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  by brian_griffith on February 12th, 2007

• Brian_Griffith apparently you have not considered a thing I have said. You still do not see that the scriptures you quote do not support your interpretation. No mater what explanation I give you, you quote the same false interpretation, Jesus is God .
  
  I am going to simplify the discussion. You have not responded to my earlier questions: Do you believe the WORD as stated in Mark 3:17 lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased ??
  Do you believe the WORD when Jesus responding to questions about being GOD (John 10:33) states in John 10:36: Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemies; because I said, I am the Son of GOD ??.
  Do you believe the WORD when John states in 1 John4:3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
  
  Clearly stated by GOD and Jesus that Jesus is the Son of GOD, not GOD. Any one stating that Jesus did not come in the flesh is of the Anti-Christ.
  You need to pray on these verses, to GOD, not Jesus because your belief that Jesus is GOD contradicts the WORD of GOD.
  Peace
  

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  by Alfred Brown on February 12th, 2007

• The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are all Three the One True God (I John 5:7 KJV). The Bible supports praying to Jesus as well (Acts 7:59, I Corinthians 1:2 KJV). Saying Jesus is not God contradicts the Word of God.

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  by ...trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. on July 1st, 2007

Comments

• muslim2: "... (this was God speaking. Can u imagine God calling himself a worm?!)" ... how about when God speaks about Christ Jesus in Hebrews 1:8-12 - "But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS." And, "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT, AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END." ... Therefore, ... in light of the OTHER scriptures regarding this subject ... you MUST be misinterpreting the verse that you have provided above! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• no bro brian. Hebrews was written by Paul who was the greatest persecuter to Christians and later claimed 2 be a prophet. He contracits jesus in every single things. So plz dont quote something written by Paul. There is nothing Jesus said which proves hes God. There is stuff which ppl said about him, not what he said. Muslims worship the God of Jesus Christ alone. Muslims believe God has no partners or equals. They accept Jesus as the Christ but not God neither the son of God.

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  by muslim2 on February 5th, 2007

• muslim2: "Hebrews was written by Paul who was the greatest persecutor to Christians and later claimed 2 be a prophet." ... You are correct! Hebrews WAS written by the apostle Paul (formerly Saul of Tarsus, a Jewish Pharisee) ... Christ Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus ... it was then that Saul then CONVERTED from Christian persecutor ... to Christian FOUNDING FATHER and LEADER! Paul is subsequently beheaded in Rome, Italy for the sake of the Gospel ... and for his love for Christ Jesus. ... "He contracts Jesus in every single things." ... This is NOT true! Please demonstrate this claim with evidence! ... "There is nothing Jesus said which proves he's God. There is stuff which people said about him, not what he said." ... Really?! How about when Christ Jesus says "I AM" in John 8:58?! (thus using the same name that Jehovah God used for Himself when speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai.) ... how about when Christ Jesus says "I and the Father are one." in John 10:30?! (thus claiming to be ONE with God.) ... What about when Thomas says to Christ Jesus "My Lord and my God!" ... and then Christ Jesus says "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." in John 20:28?! (thus affirming, and NOT rejecting, his deity.) ... how about when Christ Jesus says "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." in Revelation 22:12-13 (thus using the same name that Jehovah God used for Himself when speaking through the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 41:4) ... so you see ... Christ Jesus DID in fact SAY that he was equal with God, one with God, ETERNAL with God ... etc. THEREFORE, Christ Jesus is God. The only differences that you will find are when Christ Jesus demonstrates that he is EQUAL IN QUALITY with God the Father ... but not EQUAL IN POSITION with God the Father. THUS, ONE GOD (Monotheism), revealed in THREE PERSONS (Holy Trinity). Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• As for Paul. You read his story and how he supposedly saw Jesus and how he contradicts himself. One time he says he fell one time he says everyone else fell and so on. Paul says Gods stupidity is smarter than all of us! This is a way a man talks! As for when Jesus said before Abraham I am, in Greek this is in present frm i.e in the future he was talking about the day of ressurection. Jesus saying I and the father are one? Jesus also said while talking to God that they may know (the disciples) that we are one. I in them and thou in me. So are they all together in the trinity? No this is unity in purpose. As for Thomas he wasnt adressing Jesus he was adressing God! As for the alpha and omaiga this is in revelation and revelation was no more then a dream John had. In the book it speaks of creatures with eyes on the inside and eyes on the outside. Sometimes u have a little too much to eat and this happens. So plz stop interpreting the Bible as u wish where it fits what you want it to be.

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  by muslim2 on February 5th, 2007

• Do urself a favour and just read the Quran man u have nothing to lose. and watch this:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmLw1qPovrU

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  by muslim2 on February 5th, 2007

• "Where he (Jesus) stayed forty days, being tempted by Satan" MARK 1:13
  
  God being tempted by Satan? please no. Come to Islam and to ur sences.
  
  James. 13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God CANNOT BE TEMPTED BI EVIL , nor does he tempt anyone;.
  JESUS WAS TEMPTED BY SATAN. SATAN IS EVIL. End of discussion.
  

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  by muslim2 on February 5th, 2007

• Jesus Christ is talking to the disciples and says to God:
  that they may be one, even as we are one:
  I in them, and thou in me
  John 17:23
  So are they all part of the trinity now? No. Its unity in purpose the same with Jesus Christ and God. In Islam we accept jesus as the Christ. We just worship God not what He created. Again, you have nothing which shows Jesus was God. Dont give me an argument that he said he was the son of God the OT has hundreds of sons of God are they literal, no they are metaphorical. In the OT God supposedly told Davil THIS DAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN THEE! So david is also part of the trinity? Nooo this is metaphorical
  

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  by muslim2 on February 5th, 2007

• muslim2: You are very amusing! ... "One time he says he fell one time he says everyone else fell and so on." ... there is NO contradiction here! "... and I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, `Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?'" - Acts 22:7 ... "And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew dialect, `Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'" - Acts 26:14 ... in the first verse Paul is talking ONLY ABOUT HIMSELF falling to the ground (WHILE the others were falling as well!) ... and in the second verse Paul is talking about EVERYONE falling to the ground (including himself!) ... there is NO contradiction here! For example: imagine a mound of Apples ... and imagine that I point out ONE of the apples (out of the entire mound of Apples) and then I say "THIS Apple" ... at the same time ... would it not be true to point at the entire mound of Apples, AMONGST the Apple that had been singled out, and say "THESE Apples"?! YES! Both are true ... you can have many ... AND also a singular at the same time! WHY? Because "MANY" is made up of singulars! Get it?! ... "Paul says Gods stupidity is smarter than all of us!" ... the verse that you are referring to is "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." - 1 Corinthians 1:25 ... which is a comparison of the VASTNESS to God's INFINITE GLORY compared to DEPRAVITY of the nature of man. Paul is saying, NOT actually ... but rather metaphorically, that EVEN GOD's WEAKNESSES (which there are none!) are stronger that mans STRENGTHS ... in other words ... WE ARE NOTHING compared to God. He is GREATER than EVERYTHING! Get it?! ... "As for when Jesus said before Abraham I am, in Greek this is in present form i.e in the future he was talking about the day of resurrection." ... "So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple." - John 8:57-59 ... Christ Jesus was claiming ETERNALITY ... which was ONLY to be attributed to Jehovah God ... if Christ Jesus was/is eternal ... then he had NO beginning ... and was therefore NOT created ... and therefore he SHARED the eternal nature of God. Why else would the Jews pick up stones to throw at Him?! ... "Jesus saying I and the father are one? ..." ... Here is a list of the TYPE of ONENESS that Christ Jesus shared with His Father: ""But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity." - Micah 5:2; "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." - Isaiah 9:6; "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, ..." - Hebrews 1:3; "... and the Word was God." - John 1:1 (there is NO article in in the Greek in reference to "the Word", which in Greek communicates the QUALITY and ESSENCE of what it is describing ... therefore, "the Word", or Christ Jesus, existed in the same QUALITY and ESSENCE as God) ... etc. Therefore, the ONENESS that Christ Jesus is claiming, in reference to the Father, is both in QUALITY (John 1:1) and PURPOSE (John 10:27-30). ... "As for Thomas he wasn't addressing Jesus he was addressing God!" ... "Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you." ...

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" [ho the-os, ... or THE GOD] Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."" ... NOTE: Thomas SAID TO HIM [Christ Jesus] ... "ho the-os" ... or THE GOD. Thomas is speaking TO JESUS! There is no indication, other than the relentless twisting of the Holy Scriptures, that Thomas was speaking to Christ Jesus when saying "My Lord" ... but then switching to the Father when saying "My God". Thomas is speaking TO Christ Jesus ... and Christ Jesus AFFIRMS his deity by NOT rebuking him. Therefore, Christ Jesus IS God. "Do yourself a favor and just read the Qur'an man u have nothing to lose." ... NOTHING TO LOOSE?! I have my soul to loose! I have my salvation to loose! ...

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• I have my eternal destiny to loose! I have EVERYTHING to loose! I will never believe in the manufactured lies about my glorious Lord and King Christ Jesus from a 7th century Arab ... Mohamed was/is a deceiver ... and you have all been fooled. Christ Jesus said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." - John 14:6 ... therefore, salvation is in Christ Jesus ALONE ... "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:14. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 5th, 2007

• brian, muslim2 has proven that he has studied your book very well. The least you could do is read his before debating him. If you are worried about losing your destiny over reading one book, your faith can't really be that strong. This borders disrespectful. So much for following Jesus' example and loving all people.

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  by criticalmass on February 7th, 2007

• "...how can he be pure who is born of a woman? " This is why I think Theism is misogynistic.

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  by Halskiisaklink on July 29th, 2007

• criticalmass: "So much for following Jesus' example and loving all people." This is true ... the only thing is that sometimes the perception of how this is carried out is highly subjective ... as is the case with your outlook ... you may believe that sitting on the street and watching people burn alive inside of their apartment complex is a form of love ... others would call it a form of cowardice. I believe that sitting by and being passive in response to the false messages and religions in this world that Satan has inspired in opposition to God's true word, as is revealed through the words and teachings of Christ Jesus his son, is a form of cowardice ... and being proactive in winning peoples minds back for Christ is a form of love. You say tomato ... and then ... I correct your pronunciation! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on August 13th, 2007

• "you may believe that sitting on the street and watching people burn alive inside of their apartment complex is a form of love... others would call it a form of cowardice" says the guy with the torch in his hands.

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  by criticalmass on August 15th, 2007

Comments

Comments

• This does not answer the question AT ALL!!!

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  by tututut on February 7th, 2007

• Comment.

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  by Halskiisaklink on February 12th, 2007

• tututut: "This does not answer the question AT ALL!" ... REALLY?! The question was "Why does Islam accept Jesus as a good prophet when it is recorded that Jesus claimed to be God?" ... and I have argued that there are NO GOOD REASONS for Islam to accept Christ Jesus as a "good prophet" ... while denying his divinity. Islam came 700 years or so AFTER Christ Jesus ... and categorically denies the validity of the Gospel accounts ... which were written down merely 50 years or so AFTER the death/resurrection of Christ Jesus. The disciples and apostles, most of whom KNEW CHRIST JESUS PERSONALLY, teach us in their New Testament book writings that Christ Jesus claimed to be divine ... and ONE with God ... and THEY THEMSELVES teach that Christ is equal in EVERY way to God ... therefore being God. ... The Qur'an DENIES Christ Jesus ... for who he REALLY IS! ... and therefore, considering that amount of time that Muhammad and the book that HE WROTE, The Qur'an, I have concluded ... in my answer ... that Islam has NOT good reason to claim what is does. It is a manufactured lie ... and is the product of our Enemy Satan. Turn away from the lie that is the Qur'an ... and repent of your sins ... and embrace Christ Jesus as your personal savior. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 15th, 2007

• The Qur'an isn't a lie, O'Reilly. It tells the truth as only a holy text can. The only lie is in the vain gospels that comprise the New Testament - the Torah and the Qur'an contain the truth.

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  by Halskiisaklink on February 15th, 2007

• The Trotskyist Pantaloons: Give your explanation ... or rather ... your defense for the claim that you have made regarding the "the vain gospels". I have outlined my defense ... so should you. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 15th, 2007

• You and your views (and your desire to propagate them) are my 'defence' in themselves.

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  by Halskiisaklink on February 15th, 2007

• The Trotskyist Pantaloons: Sooo ... basically NO! ... you DON'T have any defense! If you are unable to provide REASONS and/or EVIDENCE to support your claims/beliefs ... then it will be assumed that you are ignorant in your claims/beliefs. I have provided my reasons ... and until you do the same ... we will NOT be able to debate this issue. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 15th, 2007

• That's not very substantial evidence. It's more or less just heated conjecture and personal belief.

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  by Halskiisaklink on February 15th, 2007

• Brian griffith, regardless of what you argue, Islam does accept Jesus even if you don't believe it should. The question is not 'give reasons that Islam should not accept Jesus' The question is why DOES Islam accept Jesus. You have not even come close to explaining this. I suggest you stay in your own back yard, and answer questions on Christian belief. AND The Trotskyist Pantaloons is (are?) right in not bothering to debate with you, because you do spew a lot of unintelligible biggotted crap!

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  by tututut on February 22nd, 2007

• Is, you got it. Thanks. My pantaloons are singular.

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  by Halskiisaklink on February 22nd, 2007

• tututut: "I suggest you stay in your own back yard, and answer questions on Christian belief." ... and WHAT exactly are you going to do about it if I choose NOT to take your "suggestion"?! NOTHING! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 22nd, 2007

• You're avatar is a crappy ripoff of Nevets's. What's more, the sun rays look like the backdrop to the Japanese flag.

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  by Halskiisaklink on February 22nd, 2007

• Brian, you need a dictionary. Of course tututu will do nothing if you don't take the suggestion. It was not a demand, it was a suggestion...Thank you.

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  by mysticdeliria on February 24th, 2007

• The Trotskyist Pantaloons: "You're avatar is a crappy rip-off of Nevets'" ... GEEE ... what was your first clue to figuring that one out Sherlock?! I challenge you to make a better avatar animation before you critique mine! mysticdeliria: I don't need a dictionary! I know what "suggestion" means ... but she stated her "suggestion" in the form of a sarcastic demand. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 24th, 2007

• I didn't read it that way, you read too much into things. Maybe this is why you pervert the bible so much. Of course it's entirely possible that it was meant sarcastically...maybe they can explain.

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  by mysticdeliria on February 24th, 2007

• mysticdeliria: Why do you get upset with me when I accuse others of "perverting the Holy Bible" ... but then turn around, quite hypocritically, and accuse me of "perverting the Holy Bible" ... isn't that a double standard that you are creating for yourself?! YES! I think so. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 24th, 2007

• NO, I don't think so, because I never once took issue with you accusing others of perverting the Bible. I take issue with you turning the Bible into a hardline doctrine that pits Christians against the rest of the world, the same way I take issue with Muslims who abuse the Quran in the same way. Please, try not to preach hatred and use the Bible to justify it. That's wrong not only to the people you're preaching against, but also to all the Christians who you are inadvertently speaking for.

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  by mysticdeliria on February 24th, 2007

• mysticdeliria: "Please, try not to preach hatred and use the Bible to justify it." When have I EVER "preached hatred"?! Who is it that I hate ... according to you?! I do NOT hate ANYONE! ... I do, however, hate evil ... and the false prophecies that share their foundation with evil. "You who love the LORD, hate evil!" - Psalms 97:10 ... "The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil; ..." - Proverbs 8:13 ... "Hate evil, love good; ..." - Amos 5:15 ... please provide an example how I have "preached hatred". Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 24th, 2007

• mysticdeliria: Please be careful to NOT accuse people of things that they have NOT done! Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 24th, 2007

• That's exactly what I mean, and that's what I'm accusing you of. You are so blind you cannot see it, even as you profess that you have NOT been hateful, you accuse other religions and their followers of being evil. Please continue on the other thread, I will no longer respond here, I'm tired of going back and forth...Thankyou!

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  by mysticdeliria on February 25th, 2007

• mysticdeliria: "I will no longer respond here, I'm tired of going back and forth." ... suit yourself! ... I will continue to respond where I please! ... "you accuse other religions and their followers of being evil." ... I consider false prophecies to be evil ... because they are inspired by the deceiver, or Satan, whose ONLY purpose is to create as much opposition to the truth as possible ... and to lead as many people into error as possible ... therefore, I will righteously fight against it. Christ Jesus said "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." - Matthew 24:24. The Apostle Paul wrote "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience." in Ephesians 5:6. Therefore, we, as Christians, should be on the watch for evil deceivers and evil false prophets who scheme against the truth of God. Islam DENIES the Son of God ... and therefore are marked as EVIL (according to the standard that has been set by the Holy Bible). "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; ..." - 1 John 2:23. Thank you.

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  by brian_griffith on February 25th, 2007

• brian_griffith: Good answer.

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  by ...trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. on July 1st, 2007

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