by WildCoastAmbler on September 3rd, 2007

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When the Bible refers to a man and woman having intimate relations it speaks of the man having 'knowledge' of the woman. Is it possible then that original sin (fruit of the tree of knowledge) was actually when Eve tempted Adam into having sex with her?

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by Glenn Blaylock on July 27th, 2008
First of all, as Otter pointed out, the Bible clearly refers to Adam and Eve as being man and wife. As such there is no sin in their having sex. Second of all, the first commandment that God gave them was to multiply and replenish the earth. How could they multiply without having sex? So, their sin was not having sex with each other.
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- Ah! My slip in thought is showing. Nice answer, thanks.
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  by WildCoastAmbler on July 28th, 2008
- Nice answer!
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  by PonderAppreciatively on January 7th, 2009
- um, in the time Before Sin (B.S.) women could give virgin birth?
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  by purplecows on May 25th, 2009
- Where does it say anything like that in the Bible?
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  by Glenn Blaylock on May 26th, 2009
- a simple near-syllogism:
  Mary was sinless
  because Mary was sinless, she could give virgin birth
  before the Fall, Eve was sinless
  -
  tell me why the Catholics insist so strenuously that Mary was a virgin (and tell me whether the Protestants feel strongly)
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  by purplecows on May 26th, 2009
- Where in the Bible does it say that Mary was sinless? I have never read that. This is one of many places where I disagree with Catholic doctrine.
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  by Glenn Blaylock on May 26th, 2009
- ooooooooo.............Mary was a sinner!
  .
  Make a sign and picket a Catholic church!
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  by purplecows on May 26th, 2009
- Catholics are free to believe as they wish. I respect their right to do so. As such I don't go out of my way to criticize their beliefs (nor do I do this for any faith). However, this does not mean that I agree with them. When I do express a disagreement with another faith, I try to be respectful of them and their right to believe as they wish. Picketing outside of another's church telling them that they are wrong is not would I would call respectful.
  -
  As for the earlier point. We are all sinners. There has only been one truly perfect person who has walked this Earth and that is our Lord and Savior, Jesus of Nazareth. All the rest of us have fallen short of the mark. This includes Mary. However, the Catholics are free to believe differently.
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  by Glenn Blaylock on May 26th, 2009
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by Emma is sick of ignorant bullies on September 3rd, 2007
Women eh? Because men need tempting.
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- Not sure of what you mean. I am trying to find out if anyone knows what the 'tree of knowledge' was.
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  by WildCoastAmbler on September 4th, 2007
- sorry-maybe I misunderstood. Tree of knowledge. Well, some say the whole garden of Eden thing is literal, some say it is allegorical. Some say it is just a weird story. Personally I think it means that God wanted us to follow orders. He said-don't touch! And we did, and got into trouble. God doesn't want us to have knowledge. He wants us to be stupid and just do what he says. Knowledge is dangerous. Knowledge is power. When we have knowledge we actually realise that God doesn't actually exist.
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  by Emma is sick of ignorant bullies on September 4th, 2007
- lol:) Yeah...also always wondered why He put the tree there in the first place if He did'nt want us to touch it. If He does exist I think He has a weird sense of humour.
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  by WildCoastAmbler on September 4th, 2007
- I suppose if I were God, and do things like that to keep myself amused. Maybe he was up there with another God, or his brother or someone, and they had a bet. "Hey if I put a tree there and tell them not to touch it, $50 dollars says the woman tells him to, and because he wants to get into her pants (fig leaf) he will"
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  by Emma is sick of ignorant bullies on September 4th, 2007
- Actually, the important of the story is kind of lost in most modern translations. In short, God never said “Don’t touch!” What He said was:
  
     “Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, [b]ut of the tree of the knowledge of good and
      evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee;
      but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die”
      (Moses 3:16-17, http://tinyurl.com/moses3-16).
  
  That’s why “Adam was not deceived” (see 1 Timothy 2:13-14, http://tinyurl.com/1tim2-14); the serpent *did* manage to deceive Eve, but once Eve had already partaken and had become mortal anyway, Adam saw the writing on the wall and, knowing the consequences, made his choice accordingly.
  
  Make sense?
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  by the Otter on July 27th, 2008
- Much more sense, thank you...except for why on earth(or Heaven) God made all those silly rules beats me. e.g. why put something in the garden that has the potential to kill me in the first place..? If I ever meet God, have I got a lot of questions for Him!
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  by WildCoastAmbler on July 28th, 2008
- Hey, Ambler. I really like this discussion we’re having, because I’ve been right where you are, and it really is amazing how simple it all is, once you’ve learned how it all when down.
  
  God is immortal; thus, His children (Adam and Eve) were also immortal—that’s just the laws of nature. Sure, Adam and Eve *could* have lived in the Garden forever, but without the knowledge of good and evil afforded by the fruit of the tree, they also couldn’t have any joy nor misery. Furthermore, since their immortal bodies were incapable of reproduction, the other several billion of us would be stuck in the premortal life—no bodies, no opportunity for progression, no nothing!
  
  In short, Father put that tree in the Garden to *bless* them, not to hurt them. It was all part of the Plan, which is why it’s so sad that so many people mistakenly view them as evil. They sacrificed their own immortality for the joy of all mankind. How could that possibly be an inherently evil choice?
  
  HTH!
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  by the Otter on July 28th, 2008
- Then the serpent has served the will of God by tempting Eve? Mankind needed original sin or there would have been no need for Jesus to save us? Without Lucifer, God could not have formed a plan for us? Good therefore depends upon it's existence on evil (whatever either of those concepts mean)? Sounds like a Yin and Yand thing and I feel like a dog chasing his tail right now. If nothing else, this is the mystery of life and thank goodness it's mysterious or it would be terminally boring!
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  by WildCoastAmbler on July 29th, 2008
- Ambler, that’s exactly correct. When Satan tempted Adam and Eve, he was *trying* to foil God’s Plan, but he actually wound up doing exactly the opposite. Nice, huh? :-)
  
  This is not, of course, to say that evil wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for Satan; evil is the antithesis of good and will exist even if nobody is actively promoting it. However, your Yin and Yang comparison is very apropos: if there were no evil, there couldn’t be any good. Everything has its opposite, and the lack of those opposing forces is exactly what life in the Garden of Eden was like.
  
  In short, no adversity = no ability to overcome adversity = no progression. That’s why it was so important for Adam and Eve to “fall”: as the saying goes, “Adam and Eve fell, but they fell *forward*.”
  
  For a more robust treatment of this, see the prophet Lehi’s instructions to his son Jacob in 2 Nephi 2. I’ve highlighted a few verses for you at http://tinyurl.com/5aldct , but whole chapter is really good.
  
  Again, HTH!
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  by the Otter on July 29th, 2008
- Thank you.
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  by WildCoastAmbler on July 30th, 2008
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by thatsJustme on July 27th, 2008
I feel this was a natural "human" instinct...not a temptation of Eve....
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by the Otter on July 27th, 2008
Actually, there’s nothing to indicate that Adam and Eve *didn’t* have sex while in the Garden of Eden—and why shouldn’t they have? They were married. The only difference is that their bodies were immortal and, for reasons we don’t quite understand, unable to produce offspring (which is good, since their immortality meant a lack of physical death).

The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was apparently a literal tree—one of many in the Garden of Eden—and something about its fruit was sufficient to change the immortal Adam and Eve into mortal beings that were capable of reproducing. Thus, by eating of the Tree of Knowledge, Adam and Eve made it possible for each of us to come to Earth and receive the opportunity to become more like our Heavenly Parents.

One thing that’s interesting to note is that while the serpent did deceive Eve, Adam was *not* deceived (see 1 Timothy 2:14, http://tinyurl.com/1tim2-14). Once he realized that Eve was going to be cast out for following Satan’s suggestion, he willingly partook of the fruit so that he could remain with her and thus bring about Father’s Plan. (Could it have happened without Adam also transgressing? Sure; once Eve partook of the fruit, Father could have commanded Adam to do the same. However, this is completely conjectural and, since Adam did what he did, ultimately moot).

It’s also interesting to note that the Tree of Life was *not* forbidden to Adam and Eve until after they became mortal, since eating its fruit at that point would render them immortal without perfecting them. That’s why the Savior is so important: His sacrifice allows us to have both immortality *and* Eternal Life.

HTH! :-)
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- Frankly, none of this makes ay rational sense to me and I feel it's all symbolic of a deeper meaning that escapes us, e.g. why did we have to "come to earth" to become more like the father? Why were we not originally created good enough for our Heavenly Father? Why did the Father devise such an elaborate and complicated plan? Anyway, thanks for the interesting response!
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  by WildCoastAmbler on July 27th, 2008
- Ambler, I guess you’ve never really heard about Father’s Plan. That’s not meant to be judgmental; a lot of people haven’t, and I was a decent way into my life before I did. We just each have different opportunities, and even those of us that have similar opportunities will receive them at different times.
  
  Anyway, the Plan is actually pretty simple:
  
  • Our Heavenly Parents have physical bodies, we didn’t; thus, we needed to be born into the physical realm to become like them physically.
  
  • Our Heavenly Parents have overcome any sinful desires they may once have had; we haven’t. Thus, we needed the be separated from their presence to learn to independently choose the right.
  
  • Our Heavenly Parents knew we would fail in both ways: being mortal, we would die a physical death; and being imperfect, we would die a spiritual death (through our own sins and transgressions). Thus, They sent a Savior to overcome both types of death. Through accepting Christ as our personal Savior, we can avail ourselves of His atonement and thus return spotless into our Parents’ presence—having also learned those things that each of us personally needed to learn, in order to truly become like Them.
  
  Make sense?
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  by the Otter on July 27th, 2008
- You are right about not fully knowing about the plan. I confess I rely on a limited schooldays knowledge of the bible, but irrespective of knowledge of the plan - I just feel we could have been created so that we would not fail - assuming our Heavenly Parents had the power to do this, and therefore would have had no need for this elaborate and painful learning experience we call life. But this is outside the realm of my question which was well answered by Glen Blaylock.
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  by WildCoastAmbler on July 28th, 2008
- Actually, Ambler, it’s interesting that you should mention that, because you’re right: it *was* possible for us to have been created so that would not fail. There were at least two Plans submitted at the premortal Council in Heaven: Father’s was the one I mentioned earlier, but there was also one other that we know of, presented by an angel named Lucifer.
  
  Lucifer’s Plan was exactly as you suggest: we all come to Earth, but without agency. Since we can’t choose the wrong, we all make it back! It wasn’t a bad plan per se—it did, after all, include the benefit of absolutely everyone making it back—but Father rejected it because while we would all return to His presence, we wouldn’t have learned to choose the right and would basically be no better off than when we left. In short, the trip would be worthless.
  
  Well, you probably know what came after this. Father’s Plan was accepted; Lucifer threw a fit and ran away from home, taking about a third of our brothers and sisters with him. Lucifer became known as Satan, and his followers became known as devils.
  
  That leaves the other two thirds of us—the ones that *did* accept Father’s Plan. Each of us among this remaining two thirds either has had, now has, or will someday have the opportunity to come to Earth and learn to choose the right—with Christ’s atoning sacrifice available, for when we inevitably fail. As long as we do our level best and allow Christ’s atonement to make up the difference, we’ll return to our Parents in the end, after all.
  
  Sorry so much info here, but I hope you’re getting something out of it. I know I am! :-)
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  by the Otter on July 28th, 2008
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by sirdrae on December 9th, 2008
sorry, adam and EVE were NOT immortal if they were immortal, they wouldnt be DEAD.

they were HOLY beings... but not IMMORTAL. the only immortal being is GOD. not even angels are immortal.

now that - THAT is cleared up...

to answer the question asked i have to say... people... the tree was a LITERAL TREE with FRUIT. i have to agree with another comment, adam and eve were married, it cannot be a sin to have sex with your spouse while married.

what eve tempted adam with was a LITERAL FRUIT from the TREE of knowledge of good and evil. thats what the bible says.

how can adam and eve, EAT sex?

the bible says, ADAM took of the fruit and ate, and so did eve..
bible says, eve ate the fruit before adam, so, if we are to assume SEX was the fruit, who DID EVE HAVE/EAT SEX WITH? adam was the only man around people!
com'on... that whole line above is hard to process let alone accept.

the first sin was disobedience to GOD by eating from the tree he told them NOT TO.. the fruit wasnt poisonous... but the DISOBEDIENCE towards GOD is the consequence of eating from the tree God told them NOT TO.
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- Makes sense. Thanks.
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  by WildCoastAmbler on December 10th, 2008
- immortal |i(m)ˈmôrtl| adjective: Not subject to death (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language and WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.)
  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immortal
  -
  So, seeing as Adam and Eve were not subject to death before they partook of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, how were they not immortal? Obviously, they were neither divine nor perfect, but they were immortal. The same applies to angels.
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  by Glenn Blaylock on January 7th, 2009
- glenn, i typed an answer to the question you asked. check it out and give me a feed back. thanks.
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  by sirdrae on January 12th, 2009
- "if we are to assume SEX was the fruit, who DID EVE HAVE/EAT SEX WITH?"
  
  with the serpent, of course!
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  by purplecows on May 25th, 2009
- or, maybe she masturbated with it ... maybe it was a banana
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  by purplecows on May 25th, 2009
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by thatsJustme on January 7th, 2009
they were sinless, innocent, until they ate of the tree of knowledge(knowledge-knowing right from wrong)Eve did not tempt Adam into having sex...God told them to be fruitful & multiply!
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by thatsJustme on January 12th, 2009
adam & eve were not immortal , their mortality was "in the air", til tested..God did not render their immortal destiny til they disobeyed..but they were innocent of right and wrong til they ate the forbidden fruit of Tree of Knowledge....if they were immortal, why have the Tree of Life in the 1st place. which was why God sent them from Eden and put a guard around it so they could not live forever being DISOBEDIANT.....
i will read, but as far as sex, they was not mentioned until banned from Eden & told to multiply & tend the earth and animals....
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- i thought the sin brought death into the world
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  by purplecows on May 25th, 2009
- dis obediance brought sin into the world, the punishment was death , not intercourse with each other...Eve did not TEMPT Adam into sex with her...and its not a sin with husband and wife...once they knew EVIL...defiance ,disobediance,...does not mean that the "expression" of oneness and love for each other and to multiply , WAS A SIN!!!. if they had not disobeyed..God would have never sent them out...they would probably have never known intercourse...or had children....would of been satisfied with the perfectness of their life...each other and tending the garden and animals...just reasoning....but it just does not say sex was a temptation, it was a COMMAND...that they both became aware of after eating of Knowledge..
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  by thatsJustme on May 26th, 2009
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by Bob on February 11th, 2011
No. If was fruit from a tree that God had forbidden Adam and Eve to eat from. It had nothing to do with sex. Reading from Geneses 3:3 in the Holy Bible NIV. Eve talking to Satan.."but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden…" Gen. 3:17 God said: To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.
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by sirdrae on January 12th, 2009
Glenn, based off what the bible says, there is only one who is immortal, and thats God.

Angels arent immortal, neither was adam and eve.

i will paste what the bible says on this issue below.

First of all Glenn, God warned adam and eve that if they eat of the tree, they would DIE:

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

so, from that statement we can see, God showed them they were NOT immortal.

Now, there was ANOTHER tree that if they should eat of it they would live forever. thats the tree of life. BUT God prevented adam and eve from eating of that tree so that they wouldnt be IMMORTAL SINNERS. here it is in the bible:

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

so, as you can see. they were never MADE immortal, they never got the chance to eat of the tree that would make them IMMORTAL... and thats why they are dead even up to today.

as it relates to angels being immortal... that again is NOT biblical.

1 Timothy 6:15-17 shows that God alone is immortal. the gift of immortality is not given to any other.

thats why God is, Omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. NO OTHER BEING (not even satan) is that powerful. thats why God will destroy satan and his demons and all sinners who arent obedient to God.

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

did that help anyone understand this issue better?
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- He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
  .
  so the ejection from the garden WASN'T punishment? Purely a preventative measure?
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Question

When the Bible refers to a man and woman having intimate relations it speaks of the man having 'knowledge' of the woman. Is it possible then that original sin (fruit of the tree of knowledge) was actually when Eve tempted Adam into having sex with her?

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I heard that Eve was tempted by Satan to eat the fruit first from the tree of knowledge but since she was tempted by a God. God himself wasnt going to punish her. But when Adam ate from it he was tempted by Eve and not a God. So was it his fault?

Mormons: Just how and why were the "wonderful blessing" of mortality and a sinful world introduced, if it was not actually sin that Adam & Eve committed by partaking of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil?

Mormons: If death is the wages of sin (Romans 6:23), and Adam's and Eve's disobedience in eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was not actually sin, then why did it introduce death into the world (Romans 5:12)?

Were Adam and Eve created to be sin free? If so, why did God create the Tree of Knowledge and then forbid them to eat of the fruit?

In the book of Genesis there’s a story tree of knowledge. God forbade Adam and Eve from eating of it but they did anyway; thus they were cast out of Eden. My question is: Could knowledge be considered a sin?

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Question

When the Bible refers to a man and woman having intimate relations it speaks of the man having 'knowledge' of the woman. Is it possible then that original sin (fruit of the tree of knowledge) was actually when Eve tempted Adam into having sex with her?

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