But does math exist out there, or is it that math exists in our minds and we use it as a tool to navigate the world? Take for example the colour blue, it doesn't exist, but it is how we see it as a wave length, and yet another species may be blind to this, but may be able to navigate the world using a completely different method. And in that sense does math really exist in of itself?

Mathematics is a set of rules that govern everything tangible and intangible in the universe. That makes mathematics itself intangible, just as the laws of government, religion, or one's own moral values. The colour blue, I would argue, is something in between tangible and intangible, because it describes a thing that can be touches and seen (a photon with wavelength 440 nm), but that cannot be trapped in a bottle and has no mass. We ourselves may be blind to 960 nm light, but it is just as real, since without it, you would have to get up to change the channels on your television. All of these, though are examples of "reality." Intangibility does not affect reality. There are two parts to the real world: that with which we interact directly and that with which we interact indirectly, and intangible things are merely things that have indirect effects on us. And if you really think about it philosophically, nothing truly has only a direct or indirect effect on us, so rather than a binary tangible/intangible universe, we live in a universe where things all sit on a spectrum ranging from tangible to intangible. Like the colour blue and the colour of nearinfrared, both sitting somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, and the words I impart to you now in this comment being more intangible than either of those things, even you and I ourselves are a mixture of the tangible and intangible.

But isn't it only tangible as to how you experience the world? Take for example a baby, they see everything in the world as part of themselves up until the age of 2 when they develop a sense of self, so they wouldn't see things as separate, the same as those mystics who reach enlightenment, they experience the world as an extension of themselves not separate, and in order to calculate one must be able to consider Two, and to consider two, you have to have separateness. A government again is not tangible, since man once lived as a hunter gather, and certainly had no concept of the paper world that man has made for himself in order to control the masses, government means to control the mind, hence a small number of people control the greater number as to how they should think. Finally, with morality, a few years back it was acceptable for people to torture and fight in a ring as entertainment for the masses, even today you will have the death penalty in some countries and yet not in others.

Well, no. Reality, to you, may be what you observe directly, but, in a general sense, there is always more to it. We cannot perceive everything at once, but that doesn't mean that what we do not perceive is not there.

Very true

In quantum mechanics 2 + 2 never = 4 with any certainty.

Maybe, but if I have two tacos and you give me 2 more, I will, in reality, have 4 tacos.

I'm not giving you my tacos

I'm telling mom you won't share.

Just to steer this back on course, (ha), fractal geometry governs the growth of living things, such as the shape of a seashell or the petals of a flower. I do landscape paintings, and if the geometry of a tree limb is incorrect, like if it tapers too much for the length, it is very evident. Also the curve of a limb has to be relative to the thickness. I think that explains the beauty of nature.