ANSWERS: 1
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  • If you mean do I fear the sexual prowess of other men to attract my gf? I am a little unclear on the antecedent. However, if that is what you meant, I would say that "fear" is too strong a word, but I would say that I am a little wary. I trust my gf and I know we love each other very deeply, but I want her to want me more than any other man. (Yes, yes, a primitive male instinct. Guilty as charged.) If I see her give a look to another guy - even one made in all innocence - or if, in some of the wilder things we did in the bedroom, I see her especially turned on, I invariably compare her reaction to her reaction to me. I get a little "twinge" of jealousy maybe, and I try a little harder. (That may be the Darwinian bright side in all of this. My competitive male instincts keep me striving to be a better partner to my gf and father to my children.) So, as you phrased the question, do I "at all" fear the sexual prowess of other men? I guess the answer is "Yup, darn tootin". Nobody is taking that beautiful girl I love away from me - ever.
    • we are dough
      Boring......
    • officegirl
      Once again a very honest and candid answer. Perhaps because it accords with what I have discerned about many men - but which a lot fewer are willing to admit. I did not mean "attract" but rather "affect". Your gf loves you and is happy with you and is mother of your (collectively) children and is not going anywhere. But she is capable of, and perhaps might, enjoy others a lot. Which brings out your natural feelings of jealousy. And makes you situationally, or at other times, try harder with her. A situation which we quite benefit by not just in terms of our pleasure but in terms of being wanted and appreciated. I do think there is such a thing as technique, whether general or in being able to read us from our actions and responses, and some men are what we call "good with women" either naturally or because they have learned to be through experience. And there is another level which I call "chemistry" which - I guess that is too general - but what I mean is we as individuals just naturally respond more to certain qualities in other individuals, So it is very individual but could be just to looks, presence, rhythm, motion, smell, or on a chemical level. We respond more easily and even without trying it happens, Our bodies just seem so "obey". Which is not as universal as being just "good in bed" but it is Good in bed with just us in particular and who knows with however many others? Maybe just us. And sometimes we have relationships with or marry them. Other times we would not even think to no matter how great sex is with them. I am speaking from my own point of view, but I'm sure men might feel this with some women too. I have seen a lot of jealousy naturally result from this once a couple decides to see other partners or swing. So can cause jealousy and protectiveness and fighting but very rarely I think does it lead to broken relationships simply because a good relationship is so much more than just on a who-do-we-respond-to-more-in-bed sexual level. So I think it is impractical and in a sense vain for anyone to want to be the "best" with their spouse or s/o because on that level there is always going to be someone else out there who is "better" and for us as I am sure for most men as well it is not a matter of who is "best" but who we have decided to commit to and who we see that we belong to. And who we naturally revert to after our temporary visit to someone else who we especially feel good with because of whatever of the above qualities he might have.
    • officegirl
      Doesn't seem I expressed myself so well in the above comment. One of the facts of life of multiple partner activity at least for me is that it does cause me to think about men I have felt good with and look forward to seeing again. Even though I would not under any circumstances choose to have a continuing close relationship with them as I want with my husband. Which is a source of guilt because when I am not with them I think I should be devoting all my thought energy to my husband. But then I start thinking about them for a little. Which I suppose is reason enough for sexual fidelity even with care and discretion. Most of us choose someone to be "best" for us for a variety of reasons that cause us to want a stable long-term relationship with him. If we are less mature we can be more open to being impressed just on a sexual level which I think can be, and is, tragic.
    • officegirl
      Oh you are not boring at all.
    • dorat
      You were quite clear, and what you say has merit. Certainly I agree that while we may have - if I can summarize you - a better sexual chemistry with some people than others, that does not necessarily mean that we would rather spend our lives with them. We are very sexually driven creatures, but we need other things. I've had great sex with different women - and my one gay experience brought its own emotional connections that I never expected - but it was and is my gf alone who showed me love and compassion when I needed it at a low point in my life. She is understanding and patient with me - which gosh knows, as you have mentioned, ain't always easy. There are so many things I admire about my gf, that I love her for, that I am grateful to her for and can never hope to repay her in the love and tenderness she has shown me, that in the end, the sex I have with her is better than any other. Not because of the technique or chemistry or whatever...but because it is her. My jealousy is very real - and rooted in my most basic animal instincts. I know when I say that it sort of drives you to distraction, but here is what you miss in that. At one level, it makes me want my gf more and to view any threat to my relationship to her with a wary eye. However, the thing is, I also have to be better than my animal instincts. I have to know that she has sexual needs too - different in their manifestation, but similar in their origin - and because I love her, I have to be better than my instincts. I say that I am jealous - and I am sometimes - but I love her and have to make her happy. So I am always striking that balance. You once wrote, "I am mostly glad...to make myself available as well if they (men) want to just "take advantage" because I believe I have been created for that and that can be very satisfying to me on an even more primal, I guess reproductive, level. " My gf feels that way, too, and she believes that men have sexual needs that should be met so that they can be healthy and happy. (The science bears her out on this.) The thing is, though, she has given her body - and so much more - to me out of love. So I may at one level be jealous, but at another level I have to appreciate the love and kindness of her motives. All of this, though,is to come the long way around to agreeing with you. As my gf and I matured, the sex mattered less per se, and the sex between us mattered more because we mattered more to each other. We still have our moments because of those sexual instincts evolution has implanted in us - I told you about my birthday that year - but above all we want that long term stable relationship and we know each other's emotional red lines and therefore we won't do anything that endangers that relationship. As always, a great pleasure chatting.
    • dorat
      Thanks, by the way. "We are dough" is an odd duck. I made the mistake of answering a few of "dough's" questions. A waste of time. Never has a man or women - whatever "dough" is - written so little and managed to somehow say less than what he/she has written. That said, any person who thinks that being "dough" is the defining attribute of excitement probably would not have much to say anyhow.
    • dorat
      Sorry, I had one other thought. You had mentioned that you thought it was vain to try to be the "best" in bed because there will always be better or worse. As a practical matter, you are right. However, this isn't, at least from the guy's perspective, about practicality. To a man, sex and pleasing a woman is proof of both their manhood and a demonstration of love. To the male mind, sex and love are, for all intents and purposes, the same thing. My male ego, therefore, is at work here. I may know, as an intellectual matter that there is nothing to "being the best in bed." However, I need my gf to tell me that I am. I need her to show me in the most elemental way that I am all she needs for protection, security, intimacy and physical pleasure. To convince myself - because she says so and her actions tell me so - that I give her these things, that to me is proof that I am doing what a man, at the most animalistic level, should be doing. To a male, that is huge. In nature, we protect our mates and take care of them, and yes, have sex to impregnate them. . That's what we were "made to do," as you put it. Grant that we are no longer in nature, but that basic primal need remains (- albeit that the male urge to impregnate a female and the intellectual desire to make a baby is often two different things in "civilized" men. We are not just primal beings after all.) I guess that was my point. I don't know if I was clear, but I hope that explains my perspective better. P.S. Sorry to be hopping around so much. I know it is a bother, but not being able to write in paragraphs makes it hard, for me at least, to be able to respond to your excellent points, point-by-point. Sorry, but I hope you understand,
    • officegirl
      Well I would dispute some of what you have written. Being "civil" is simply getting along with others if only for the good it gets you. Many men don't understand deeply satisfying simply being desired, entered, and enjoyed is for us. On a very primal level, very deep level. Because through it we are fulfilling a very important part of being female - of what we were created for. Of course it is "evolutionary". Which is what makes it primal. Even having dozens of orgasms and letting ourselves go like that is not really as deeply primal for us though of course wonderful on all other levels. From an evolutionary point of view they are what keep us going and wanting what we want as often as possible. I have read about men who do learn to orgasm without ejaculating though I have never really known or been with any. Because for most men ejaculation is the physiological finish and though of course not all have to or do it seems that is what they look to and consider as being complete in the act. Whereas for us our orgasms can be our goal but we are not really "finished" by them until you finish or, ultimately, we become pregnant. So in that sense pregnancy and childbearing, child raising (nurture) are our "finish". Which I know many people might disagree with but that seems so obviously true to me. Again that whole family-relationship dynamic drives us. On another matter - I'm sure your gf has no doubts but if she could read how much you gush on here over her in most all of your posts she would feel the luckiest woman alive. I know I would. Most men of course like and appreciate us but usually play their hands closer to their chest (to use what I imagine is a card game metaphor- hope I am using it correctly) but you are so upfront about it! Does she know how often she is praised on here?
    • dorat
      First off, sorry about the gushing. I do go on. However, I promise you this - my gf gets to hear it. I make it a point every day to tell her how much I love her. So, yup, she knows. Beyond that, she really has not looked at this site too much because she is starting a freelance work project, but we sometimes talk about things I have written, or even though the site offers the benefits of anonymity, if I think she might think something is too personal, I will make a point of asking her before I mention it. (She was reluctant, to say no more, for me to tell the story of her getting me a prostitute for my birthday. She wondered what women in particular might think of her since they do not know her.) Still, I could not have been given a gift so beautiful, a friend so intimate, a lover so sexy, that I could not be grateful and thank her every day.
    • dorat
      Next point - we really do agree here, actually. First, a quick note: I have a background in political philosophy so I tend to use common terms somewhat differently. I did not mean to suggest "civil" as simply polite. In a philosophical context, "civil" is somewhat more expansive. It includes empathy and fellow feeling and connectedness. Obviously, in a sexual context, that is something different again, but that is what I meant to say. On the rest, though, I fully agree. That desire to get pregnant, have babies, everything you mentioned is very much primal. I don't know if all men get that, but I do. Interestingly, though, I am not sure if you fully get what sex means to a man. Yes, for a man, an orgasm is the end of it in a way. However, sex means more to a man, too. It is how we express love. When we orgasm and we think we have pleased a woman we feel a closeness and intimacy that you - quite rightly - say we are not good at expressing verbally. The act is, in that sense for us, also the start and not the finish. By the way, probably one of the most deeply intimate sexual experiences I have ever had was when my gf was pregnant and we were having sex. Feeling myself inside her and looking at her belly and just thinking that I wanted her so much and that she loved me so much that she was carrying my baby, this little life that I had help to make, was just overwhelming. Obviously, pregnancy is different for a man, but that sense of sharing and making a little life that we can love and nurture and protect means much to a man, too. Anyhow, this is a hard one for both of us. We both speak English and write well, but what we are talking about is, in so many ways, elusive for each of us. However, I do think that we are more in agreement than meets the eye.
    • dorat
      Okay, one last thought, then I will stop. Promise. You wrote: "Because for most men ejaculation is the physiological finish and though of course not all have to or do it seems that is what they look to and consider as being complete in the act. Whereas for us our orgasms can be our goal but we are not really "finished" by them until you finish or, ultimately, we become pregnant. So in that sense pregnancy and childbearing, child raising (nurture) are our "finish"" That is absolutely bang on - not at a social level, but at an evolutionary "primal" level as you say. When my gf got pregnant the first time - actually the first two times, but this is about the first time -we had not planned on it. We were living together and talked about having kids maybe once. However, since we did not want to be married, we were not quite sure about raising kids with two unmarried parents. Anyhow, I came home one night and my gf was in tears. I thought someone had died it was so bad, So I held her and asked her what was wrong and eventually she composed herself and said, "Honey, please don't be mad. I'm pregnant." Then I started to cry. I was so happy that I got choked up and my eyes welled up. (I'm not THAT bad.) What a pair we must have made. She had thought I would be angry, and she later told me that she was so happy and so relieved when I was excited and happy. What you wrote brought back what she said to me at the time and I will never forget it - "Honey, I was so happy. I love you so much and it was so important for me to give you a baby." Exactly your point - and why I know what you mean. Well said.
    • ladyEmma
      I think that's totally understandable to fear the sexual prowess of other men. I know my husband certainly has some fears about that. Particularly if we run into someone I've had sex with in the past. The logical part of him knows that I married him for a reason. He is a great partner for me in so many ways, including sexually. But the jealousy can't help but sneak in too and he wonders how good the sex was with this other guy and that can lead to some fear of how good was the sex between me and these other men, and how does he compare to them.
    • dorat
      Yup. Been there, done that. It is a bit of male competitiveness mixed with maybe a touch of insecurity and - frankly - a very male sense of "she's mine." That male instinct is very primal and still very real. Works well for you ladies, though. You know we would fight like demons to keep you, and if you like to feel protected, that's the way to bring that possessive and protective instinct out of us.
    • ladyEmma
      Male competitiveness mixed with insecurity and a sense of "she's mine." I think my hubby can definitely relate to those feelings. And I've been with a lot of men, so these unexpected interactions with my past lovers ten to happen quite a bit. He's gotten used to it but there is always that feeling like he must fight for me like you mentioned. It does work well for us ladies because any time this happens hubby tends to be a little more protective of me in public and then dominant in the bedroom when we get home. The sex tends to be a little more passionate after we run into a past lover of mine or if another man seems to flirt or pay attention to me.
    • dorat
      True story, my gf and I ran into an ex of her's at a military reception on Capitol Hill. The guy was a former F-14 pilot and Gulf War Veteran. Impossibly good looking - the total stereotype of the dashing Naval officer. We met - and I was very courteous - but the whole time I kept putting my arm around my gf. Then I'd give her a peck on the cheek or hold her hand. I wouldn't let her get out of my sight the whole evening. After the reception I told her, "We're going home and having sex right now!!!" We did, ultimately, but she did what she usually does when I get on my high horse. She rolled her eyes and kissed me on the cheek and told me she loved me. I was happy then - but the sex was definitely very animalistic that night.
    • ladyEmma
      I think my husband would have had the same reaction as you. Whenever we run into someone I've slept with in the past, it's pretty much a done deal that we're going to have some very passionate sex when we get home. Even if your girlfriend rolled her eyes, I'm sure deep down she loves that you are protective of her and are passionate about the love you feel for her. I know that's how I feel when hubby and I are around my past lovers.
    • dorat
      Yes, she rolled her eyes, but only because she knows me and thinks I am being sweet. (Aside to gf: "Isn't that right, honey?") Actually, she has told me in the past that although I have nothing to worry about with other men, she loves feeling that I would fight so hard to keep her and be so protective of her. That makes me feel good - 'cause I'm not lettin' go of that lady!!
    • officegirl
      So much interesting here to talk about and think about. How can I ever hope to cover it all? Thank you Emma for getting involved with your comments and I can relate to every thing you have mentioned - that "competitiveness" has been there and possibly still is with my husband as well. We talked a lot about sex early in our relationship but eventually it became something we did not discuss but knowing I had just been with someone I think he would try to guess or imagine what we had done and based upon what he imagined I think he felt he had to "reclaim" me for himself by action. Which of course I never considered would have been necessary but yes I enjoyed his interest and passion that came from that. And I will admit there were times when before I got home I put my hair or clothing a little askew so I would appear more "used" to him. And sometimes did not completely clean up so he would feel something of the person I had been with. Like possibly last Wednesday he might have sensed it or felt it but we didn't talk about it. I would never "compare" any man to another to them because seems that would be like sexual suicide! The way I feel - really I have always been boy-crazy and most men are pretty wonderful to me. Except those who would seek to hurt me. But I think we did so much early on that was so absolutely new to him , even though I put him in control of our activities, that he had to pull back and think whether this was something he wanted or did not want. I would guess he was more bothered by it than he had promised to be but that his guilt prevented him from saying how he felt except for just being protective of me.
    • officegirl
      Years ago, and I may have told Emma about this, I went west with two older guys in their van and eventually they both started being with me and at a certain point they fought over who properly had "rights" to me. Which made me feel angry and defensive just like I have been sometimes with you dorat. Because neither of them had "rights" to me. So I cut them both off, even though I was liking being with both of them, until the end of the trip.
    • officegirl
      Dorat re your escort story which you have told a couple of times - I don't know but seems to me that your gf must have sort of liked the idea of you being with her upstairs for whatever reason. My husband would not have been interested in that kind of paid thing at all but goodness I have found some women for him and suggested others mostly from my own guilt that I was getting interest and action with others but he was not. Because I think if I am allowed to enjoy others then he should have that same freedom. Whether or not he wants it. And I know he has I would say most of the time esp when he gets the chance to know them and feel closer to them. But dorat sometimes they have become possessive and it ended by their wanting him to leave me! In both cases when that happened it was because they saw Gerry as being a successful but kinder more pleasant man than their husband. One of them was in love with him and the other I thought was my friend - we had met in jazzercise class. In our first year of marriage Gerry allowed a man I had been seeing in swinging situations stay with us weeks while he was doing electrical work on out new home. They got on and for two months I had the attention of both of them which was pretty overwhelming but I guess over-inflated my sense of myself so when t finally all blew up I was hurt though I had no one but myself to blame. So a couple of years later when Gerry's "mistress" was kicked out by her husband I couldn't very well refuse her request to stay with us. That blew up eventually too and turned into a drama though for other reasons.
    • officegirl
      I did want to add that whatever I have had with other men, and yes in my head I do think of certain sexual things with fondness, That since my marriage it is my husband I have most been with and who has taken care of me not just sexually but in other ways too like being my friend and companion - and there is such a feeling that we are in this together sometimes even vs. the whole rest of the world. So the way no matter how much I do like men, and I like them a lot, how can I not love my husband - at the very least - for giving me what have been the best years of my life?
    • dorat
      Hmmm, Lots here, but I'll keep it short. The guys fought over their rights to you? Where might that have come from? The gals saw your husband as kinder and more successful? Why would they prefer that? You can trace a lot of the behavior you mentioned to evolutionary psychology. Our female ancestors, in evolutionary terms, needed a male who would be nurturing and protective to forage for food and ward off rivals while she nursed. So what do you see here? The women like the guy who seems "nicer." See the connection? The guys fought over you? Hmmmm. Men, in evolutionary terms, instinctively desired to impregnate as many females as possible and to ward off rivals. Sound familiar? In my case, my gf mistakenly assumed that I was feeling old and she wanted to do something that would make me feel more virile. The irony was that it caused something of a disagreement between us. She wanted me to accept a gift, and I - horrified that she thought that in some way that she was not good enough for me - didn't want to. I relented because it seemed to hurt her so much that I was rejecting something that she had so painstakingly and lovingly arranged for me. I never did it again and I told her later that night that she should always know that she means more to me than anything and that sex with her was the best sex I would ever have. At any rate, I am pleased for you that your relationship with your husband makes you happy. Nothing in what we know about human evolution and sexual psychology demeans that. As I have said before, we are MORE than merely instinctive creatures. However, that does not mean that we are not instinctive creatures at all.

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