ANSWERS: 9
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Absolutely nothing!! Paul was a Hebrew of the Hebrews who believe in the One Monotheistic God manifested in Jesus Christ. Per his writing: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory." (I Timothy 3:16) If by chance you would ask, "Well then, where did the trinity doctrine come from?", the remaining information addresses that. Feel free to read no further if you are not interested. I hope this answer helps. The trinity doctrine did not exist in the early church. It was later developed by some of the church leaders after the death of all of the apostles, the last being the Apostle John, who died around 100 A.D. Around 150 A.D. Origin wrote a philosophical treatise where he claimed that the Logos (Greek for "Word") used in John 1:1 was a 2nd person. This began to be popular among some at the school in Alexandria, Egypt, and Tertullian boosted this philosophy greatly after 200 A.D. (Tertullian is called "the father of the trinity"). The philosophical church leaders of 150-300 A.D. replaced being spiritually lead by being intellectually lead. You will find an increasing agenda for control throughout this period. They wrote articles condemning those who held to the old early church's stance on the One Monotheistic God manifested as Jesus Christ. By 325 A.D. after the so-called "conversion" of Constantine, the emperor of Rome, they held a council at Nicaea which solidified and enforced the Nicaean Creed, the classic trinitarian creed that is the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church. Thus began a campaign to actively seek and destroy all those who held to the old apostolic truths of One God In Christ, fueled by the power of the Roman Empire behind the newly formed Nicaean clergy. What made the trinitarian doctrine so acceptable to Rome was its incorporation of the pagan religion of Mithraism, which Rome had embraced a few hundred years earlier (among its many accepted pagan religions). Some antagonists have falsely tried to equate Mithraism to all of Christianity, which was more an attack than accurate. However, Mithraism's core precepts of a multi-person god and a "mother of god" definitely influenced the Roman adaptation of Christianity. With the charter of the Nicaean Creed, the resulting Roman Catholic Empire stole the name "Christianity", but they are anything BUT Christian.
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I acknowledge many who do not interpret the following to allow a trinitarian God, but these passages, attributed to Paul, are used by theologians to support the concept of the Trinity (quotes from NIV): Romans 9:5 "the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised!" While not the only possible interpretation of this grammar, can be understood this way. Diety dwells in Jesus Col 2:9. Titus 2:13 "the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" Philippians 2:10 "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth." In light of "worship God only" why else would heavenly beings bow to Jesus? Also Hebrews 1 "Let all God's angels worship" the Son. Jesus is credited with creation (and we know "God created" from Genesis 1) in 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17 Spirit is eternal (one of the attributes of God) Heb 9:14 The Spirit is not the Father. Rom 8:26,27 "the Spirit himself [note: pronoun indicates person] intercedes for us [presume to the Father] with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts [either the Father or the Son] knows the mind of the Spirit [note: only a "person" has a "mind"], because the Spirit intercedes for the saints" The Father is not the Son - they are listed separately in Paul's writings see: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; Phm. 3. Galatians 4:4 "God sent his Son..." The subject/object relationship indicates the Father (who sent) is not the Son. I acknowledge that this position requires that the word "God" must be allowed to refer sometimes to the divine being and at other times to the person "Father" which can be confusing. There is only one divine being - one God: asserted or implied in Rom. 3:30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6. Despite misrepresentations from detractors, the Trinity allows only one divine being, but allows that being to "contain" the Father, Son and Spirit. Much much more could be said. See http://www.equip.org/free/DT160.htm for additional references. _________ Once again, despite stating only true things and starting with acknowledgement of those who disagree, I see detractors preaching against my obviously correct answer. To clarify: theologians do use these passages to defend the Trinity whether you like or accept it or not. There are no "scriptures which prove trinity wrong." If there were, the many brilliant Christian language scholars and the majority of Christian theologians through the millenia would not defend it. Since I show the courtesy to recognize that not everybody interprets the Bible this way, why can you not show similar intelligence? re. the 1 Cor. passage noted in the feedback: obviously neither the Father or the divine Being is "under Christ," the Son is subject to the Father, the Father or the divine Being puts thing in subjection to Christ... etc. I do not see any irreconcilable problem for trinitarians in these verses.
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There is no specific writing from Paul regarding the trinity. HOWEVER, JW's beware. This is not a license to jump up and down and say 'we told you so'. Your doctrine of Jesus being 'a' God could be wrong too. Deuteronomy 4:35: "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:39: "Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other. " Isaiah 44:8: "Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 45:5a "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. " Isaiah 45:14b "Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:21b: "And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:22: "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other." Do I need to keep going? Jesus may or may not be God: that is something we are all seeking the truth of, but I can tell you 100% that he's not 'a' God, because apart from God, there are no other deities. The truth of it is that nobody knows whether the trinity is for real or not, and both TulsaDavid and Thom64 are correct. The trinity doctrine was not part of 'the Way' (original Christianity). It did indeed come from the Nicean creed. Many verses in the bible CAN be translated to support or disprove the trinity, but nobody has absolute proof that their truth it THE truth. So until then, all we have is opinion and belief.
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There are writings by Paul regarding the trinity doctrine, not the word "trinity", but the concept of the identity of Jesus and his relationship and position relative to God, information which can tell us what the apostles were taught by Jesus regarding him and "his God", whether Jesus claimed to be God, a part of God or some kind of Trinity. The writings of Paul are very extensive, including the following books of the New Testament; Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thesselonians, 2 Thesselonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews and James. (1 Corinthians 8:4-6) 4 Now concerning the eating of foods offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are those who are called �gods,� whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many �gods� and many �lords,� 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him. . . Here it is clear that the apostle Paul believes there are many who are called "gods", and the term need not pertain only to the one true God. Notice also the phrasing of the last part of that verse. It says all things are "out of" God, while they are made "through" Jesus. That one word is very important, because it indicates the source of creation was actually Jehovah, God, but he used Jesus as an instrument to make them. Jesus always does the will of his Father, doing nothing of his own initiative. For example, at the garden in Gethsemane he prays, "not my will, but your own". If he were a part of God then his Gods will would be his own, it is a contradiction for him to say do not do my will, but yours, and redundant. In this verse, found in Ephesians 1:16-17, Paul writes that Jesus Christ is not God, but that he has a superior authority, one that he worships and respect as God . . .. "I continue mentioning YOU in my prayers, 17 that THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, the Father of glory, may give YOU a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him..." And the final nail in the coffin; Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 "Next, the end, when he (Jesus) hands over the kingdom to his God and Father..." Again Paul says "his God", clearly implying that Jesus is not God, but a subject under the authority of the true God, although he is the highest ranking, the first born of all creation, he was created by someone else, God. "when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet." So God subjects all things to Jesus, Jesus does not have authority of his own to place under subjectio all things on the earth. If he could, would Satan try to tempt him by offering all the kingdoms of the earth? 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] �subjected all things under his feet.� But when he says that �all things have been subjected,� it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." Again it says someone else subjected all things underJesus rule, that Jesus did not do so out of his own power or authority, and it clearly states "with the exception of the one subjecting all things to him", so it is clear the order of the chain of command, Jehovah, God, is the one and only true God, Jesus is His second in command, given authority over all the earth BY GOD, and not as part of God. He was created by God, as the first born of all creation, a master worker through which all other things were made. (Colossians 1:15-16) "15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth." Note in this verse it says God is invisible, and other writers, who had also seen Jesus, say that "no man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him." (John 1:18) These are some of the writings of Paul which explain the trinity.
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Wow i cannot believe that people will be decieved by the trickery of men by believe in the trinity, the bible never taught about the trinity and many people try to find scripture to support that theory. Jesus was oblivious of a trinity. he never taught it, paul never taught it, many scripture on the OT and NT point to Jesus as being God but man try to change scripture and make new bibles to fit this trinitarian doctrine, Woe unto you, Research History and you will see that their is only One God which is Jesus, In 1 Timothy 3:16 the bible didnt say that " God the Son came down in flesh" it said "God was manifested in flesh" which means the fullness of the Godhead " Their is on God, the Father(1 Cor 8: 6) the bible says that all the fullness of the deity if in Jesus Christ. He is God not God the Son
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1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Psalms 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth. http://geocities.com/understand_the_trinity
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Most christian churches, whether belonging to a large denomination, or a small/large non-denominational church believe in the Trinity. Although the word "trinity" is not used in the New Testament, the concept is definitely there. eg Matthew 28: 19 Jesus says to baptise "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", one name, three Persons. Many other verses, particularly in the writings of Paul, back up the claim that there are three Persons in the One God. That is how a doctrine is established, by discussion and the putting together of many passages that say the same thing. It is a common fallacy that the doctrine was introduced in the fourth century, with the Council of Nicea being named frequently, but, in fact, the Trinity was firmly adhered to by second century Christians(such as Ireneus and Polycarp), many of whom knew the Apostles personally, and would have been in a great position to either deny that this was apostolic teaching had it been a problem. By the time of the Council of Nicea in 325, the Trinity was a done deal, and it was not debated. The main discussion of Nicea was whether or not Jesus was a created being or co-existent with the Father. Arius, who had put forward the theory, had some support initially, especially from members of the Imperial family, but his teachings were eventually rejected by an almost unanimous vote, after extensive discussions. Still, Arius never denied the Trinity outright, just Jesus' place in it. Likewise, Nestorius, whose beliefs were discussed at the Council of Ephesus in 431, did not deny the Trinity, though, for a while, he wondered about the nature of Christ. A copy of a book written by him towards the end of his life, found in 1895, affirms that he believed in the Trinity and the twofold nature of Christ. The Eastern Church, which followed his teachings, and took the Gospel as far as China, Korea and Japan by the middle ages, was Trinitarian. The great western reformers, Luther, Melancthon, Calvin, and so on, weer critical of many Roman Catholic teachings, but never questioned the Trinity. The denominational and non-denominational churches who adhere to the teachings of these reformers, are trinitarian. There are very few churches, in fact, who deny the trinity. Those which do, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Christadelphians, are so divergent from traditional Christian teaching that they are rightly labelled sects, not denominations.
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Paul does not teach about the trinity nor does Jesus, they didnt know about it, they would have made it specific, jesus in many cases pointed out that the Father is in HIM, jesus said " When you see me, You see my Father, If you deny that i am he then you will dye in your sins" we need to study the word more
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If you really want an answer to your question about the trinity involving the divinity of Jesus, then here goes. Christianity during Jesus time did not teach that he was god. Matter of fact Jesus even said that after he was gone, many of his teachings would be corrupted. Notice: "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." - ACTS 20:29,30 "However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances..." - 1 Timothy 4:1 The Trinity Trinity (definition) – That the Father, the Son (Jesus), and holy ghost are all together god, each eternal, each almighty, and none greater of less than the other. The belief that Jesus Christ is god, is based on the idea of the trinity. But if you take a look at the history of this teaching: First the word trinity or the teaching is never found in the bible. Also the Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the belief of the trinity or that Jesus was god or was part of god did not even exist until two to three hundred years after the death of Jesus. The Encyclopedia Americana says - “Fourth century Trinitarianism was a deviation from early Christian teaching.” This teaching was adopted into “Christianity” from pagan religions from Egypt, Babylon, from Hinduism, and even from the philosopher Plato that taught the trinity belief 400 years before Jesus. Finally the trinity became the central teaching of the church not because of the bible but because of the order of the Roman Emperor Constantine who was pagan himself. He really couldn’t care less about bible teachings but only wanted to end the debate between church leaders to keep unity in his kingdom. After he made that decision in the year 381, anyone that openly disagreed with the trinity were violently persecuted or killed with the permission of the church. Back to the Scriptures After that history lesson In reading the bibles record of Jesus, Jesus never claimed to be God or any part of God. Everything he said about himself indicated that he did not consider himself equal to God in any way – not in power, not in knowledge, or age. The bible calls Jesus “the only-begotten Son” of God (John 1:14; 1 John 4:9) - First off, John 1:18 – “No man has seen God at any time…” (The bible says no man has ever seen god but thousands saw and interacted with Jesus during his earthly life.) - God has no beginning and no end. Psalms 90:2 – “…even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.” But the bible says that Jesus was “the firstborn of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15) Also see (Revelation 3:14) Unlike God, Jesus was created and had a beginning. - Notice another scripture. When a man came to fall at Jesus’ feet and then called him “Good Teacher”, Jesus said to him at Mark 10:17, 18 “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.” (If Jesus himself was god would that statement make any sense? Jesus always directed any praise to god, not to himself.) - John 14:28 – “The Father is greater than I.” (Jesus talking) - 1 Corinthians 11:3 - “…the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (The bible always talks of God of being superior in power to Jesus.) - Philippians 2:6 – “…Jesus Christ, who, although he was existing in God’s form (as a spirit in heaven) gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” - Also 1 Timothy 2:5 Says that the disciples viewed Jesus as the “one mediator between God and men,” not as God himself. A mediator is obviously someone separate from those who need mediation, not part of one of the two parties that need mediation. ---That’s just a short list of the many accounts since I did want to make this to long--- But the bible is clear and consistent about the relationship of God to Jesus. Jesus Christ always distinguishes himself from God and showed that he never desired to be seen or worshipped as god. That he only wished to do the will of his father. Consider Psalms 83:18 – “That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the most high over all the earth.” Isaiah 12:2 – “Look! God is my salvation. I shall trust and be in no dread; for Jah Jehovah is my strength and my might, and he came to be the salvation of me.” Jesus stressed the importance of his father’s name at John 17:26 – “I have made your name known to them and will make it known.” Even in Jesus model prayer: - Matthew 6:9 – “YOU must pray, then, this way: “Our Father in the heavens let your name be sanctified…” Another thing Many people don’t know that when they say Hallelujah, it means “praise Jah” short for Jehovah. Even Jesus’ name itself means “Jehovah is Salvation” The mother of the prophet Moses was named Jochebed, which means “Jehovah Is Glory” The prophet Joel in the bible, his name means, “Jehovah is God” The prophet Elijah in the bible name means “My God Is Jehovah” Isaiah’s name means “Salvation of Jehovah” Hezekiah, Josiah, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Zechariah and Zephaniah all are well-known Bible names whose meanings involve Jehovah, or Jah, the shorter poetic form of Jehovah’s name. Even many people’s names today have Jehovah in their meaning: Johnson means “Jehovah has favored” The name Jonathan means, “Jehovah has given” Joshua means, “Jehovah is salvation” or “Jehovah rescues” Jacqueline, Jackie, Jacquelyn, John and Jack means, “Jehovah has been gracious” Chanya means “The Grace of Jehovah” Kayla means “Jehovah has given” Joey means "Jehovah increases" Jesse means “Jehovah exists” Jeremiah and Jeremy means “appointed by Jehovah” Josiah means “Jehovah supports” Joe or Joesph means “May Jehovah give increase” Jane, Jan, Janelle, Janet, Janice, Janie, Janine, Joan, Joanne, Jodie, Joni, Jonie, Joanna, Johannah all are variations that mean “Jehovah is gracious” One last thing: Also remember that “god” is not a name, it’s a title. Just like “boy” or “king”, “God” and “Lord” are titles, “God” is anything you choose to worship. Your money can be your “God”, your possessions can be a “God”, but the only God the bible points to is Jehovah, God’s name. ---Explanation of pictures--- -The "Christian" Trinity was just a pagan befief that was incorporated into the church hundreds of years after Christ. The pictures are of the Hundu trinity, then the ancient Egyptian trinity, and finally the "Christian" trinity. -An ancient painting of the scene in Nicaea when Emperor Constantine made his decision-
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