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by Anon on October 22nd, 2005
From a scientific standpoint, it depends whether you consider sound to be the actual sound waves or only the perception of those waves by an ear. For the first, a definite yes. For the second, no (unless forest critters don't count as someone).
Philosophically, there are many ways to answer. Personally, I see it as a metaphor for karma. Whatever someone or something does, it has results - even if no one observes it. Sound would be symbolic of the karmic results.
It goes back to the moral question - "If I don't get caught, is it still wrong to do ______?" Well, if someone is asking themselves that question, the answer is likely to be "yes."
Another parallel can be seen in a commonly used example from Chaos Theory - the "Butterfly Effect" - whereby the actions of a simple butterfly can (hypothetically) effect global weather patterns.
Of course, this question is a Zen koan, and as such it is important not to take it too literally. The main purpose of such koans is not that we must figure out the "right" answer, but rather that we open our minds in the process.
by Poseidon on September 19th, 2006
yes. physics has proven it. A tree has massive potential energy, and it's fall converts it into kinetic energy. When the tree comes into contact with anything, say, the ground, that item is forced to absorb the energy of the impact, releasing heat and sound from friction and impact.
by Highlander is semi-retired from AB on July 25th, 2007
No. Only if there are ears to hear the sound. The fall creates vibrations not sound. The tymphanic membrane transfers these vibrations to the middle ear which registers what we know as sound. Without the ear, there is no sound.
by Anonymous on October 31st, 2006
No it doesn't make a sound....it makes pressure waves in the air sure, but until those waves hit an ear and is converted into sound by the brain they will merely remain pressure waves. When someone sneeks up on you, you say, man you didn't even make a sound!! Well of course they didn't make a sound because the pressure waves never made it to your ear.
by - retroglide - on April 13th, 2007
I've been told that technically it doesn't. My understanding is that the sound waves must bounce off the ear drum to truly produce a sound.
by Gracin the Strange on March 13th, 2007
Sound, by definition, needs a receptor, or someone/something to hear it. So there is no sound.
by Midgardsormr on January 12th, 2008
A sound is defined as physical vibrations transmitted through a medium. Under that definition, anything that causes such vibrations makes a sound, whether or not someone is present to perceive it.
A "noise," on the other hand, is a subjective concept that requires someone to perceive it in order to judge it as noise or something else (such as music).
That's the way I view this particular conundrum. However, I hold that there is an objective reality that exists whether or not we accede to it. That is by no means a universal belief.
by Thom64 on October 28th, 2005
Practical answer: yes, of course it does.
Real answer:
To assert without any reservation that it must requires absolute faith in pure naturalism and the current understanding of physics and related subjects.
Could some peculiar circumstance arise that would negate or prevent the generation of sound through natural, technological or supernatural factors? Yes. To assert otherwise would be dogmatism, not objectivism.
The fact is we can't prove something makes a sound unless there is some verifiable record or observation that it happened (and I suppose even that could be faked, mistaken or misread).
Back to the practical: it is entirely reasonable to assume that it does make a sound. We live our lives every day assuming the operation of certain natural "laws" which dictate that it would.
by Geronimo on November 15th, 2009
yes...
Sound is created by the breaking of molecules in the air thus it would make a sound whether we were there or not but of course annoying people will say "yeh, but how do you know?"..
by TAPriceCTR s son is wearing his COAT on October 7th, 2009
yes. the universe does not give a crap about our existence. the laws are followed regardless of our approval or observation. before man discovered that the world was round... it was still round.
by Keysha on October 7th, 2009
Does changing the words around in a sentence, even though it says the same thing, make it no longer a duplicate?
by Factotum on October 7th, 2009
If sound is propagated waves of mechanical vibrations moving through air then yes, it does.
by justsomeone on October 7th, 2009
does it? do the birds chirp if men are not there to listen? does the wolf howl at the moon just to scare people? what would be the difference if humans are there or not? this riddle is actually meant to ask, would the world care if humans were gone or not? the truth. no if we disappeared the world would keep revolving. so to answer your question, yes the tree makes a sound but it makes no difference if we hear it or not.
by overeducated on August 15th, 2009
I don't think it is a sound till it hits an eardrum (or recording device). Sound is nothing more than an air disturbance; can't exist in a vacuum. SOME air disturbances are interpreted by SOME living creatures as "sound", but otherwise "sound" is an arbitrary truncating of a larger range of phenomena.
by Who Is She on July 28th, 2009
It sure does, just as a dead cat is a dead cat .... but you're up on Schroedinger already and may beg to differ right?
by Patti jo on January 24th, 2009
You bet it does , the animals here it and I think I might hear them as well -- lol ---- + up
by Brian I on September 8th, 2008
I wonder if anybody has already asked this. Oh, yes:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/34517
by xXxsnnyDaythryxXx Rain is fighting back on July 10th, 2008
ya...the soundwaves are created whether we are there or not...so it would have to make a sound...right?
by The Dean on January 3rd, 2008
Sure it does. The creation of sound has no dependance on anything perceiving that sound.
by daisymae19 on April 13th, 2007
well it makes noise..but is noise the same as sound? Does sound only exist if someone or something hears it?
Since there would be birds or animals or insects, etc in the forest when the tree falls I would say that it makes both noise and sound because it is heard, even if what hears it isn't a human being.
by branciforte3241 on December 5th, 2006
This question has no answer, because it was explicitely designed to have no answer. This is a Zen koan. Zen Buddhists attempt to achieve a state of perfect awareness in the present moment. Through Zen (literally meaning "meditation") they seek through mental discipline to quell the brain's egoistic desire to catagorize and analyze. They do no seek to live their lives in this state, they merely use it as an exercise to gain greater control over their thinking process in everyday life. The use of a koan, a question with no answer, has been an effective technique for them to achieve this goal.
by tt010101 on November 29th, 2006
If a tree falls, the fall would induce vibrations in the air as waves of sound. Yes, phyically there is sound! But no one can hear it. There's still sound though.
by BAM@Cyberscrewed.tk on October 19th, 2006
Here's a real question, if a fat girl falls in the woods, do the trees laugh?
by Woodii on April 3rd, 2006
If there is no ear to receive the sound waves,then there is no sound. A sound must be heard.
by Kiku on October 27th, 2011
No.
A falling tree doesn't make a sound even when there is someone or something to hear it. A falling tree creates air pressure waves. Our ears respond to them and convert the variations in pressure into electrical signals. Those signals are interpreted as sound by our brain. The only place sound itself exists in inside our heads.
by Count Orlok on October 27th, 2011
If no one's there, how do you know it fell? — Ernie Pantusso
by Nerd Thuggery awakens. on October 12th, 2009
Of course it makes a sound.
The better question is, was anybody listening?
by anonymous on October 7th, 2009
Is Schrodinger's cat dead or alive?
by InTune on August 15th, 2009
yes it is still a sound. just because someone doesn't hear it doesn't disqualify it as being a sound. If no one is looking at a picture, does it cease to be a picture? Of course not. The dictionary describes sound as something that can be heard, not something that must be heard in order to be sound.
by Self Consuming Cannibal on August 15th, 2009
I believe it does. You could test this by putting a tape recorder into the forest. I have a question for you.
If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it still scream and yell when it breaks a limb?
by Nancy on June 28th, 2009
Yes.
by CaRbOnPrOdUcK is Baccuss on June 28th, 2009
Nobody will ever know. But somebody that happens to walk by will. Then nobody can find out from them.
by Kravenhead on June 28th, 2009
To the other hearing creatures yes, but if there is no ear to hear it then no. Sound is just the motion of gas molecules interacting with your body. Your brain turns it into "sound". The same is true of light. The energy is there "radiation" but your body and brain turn it into something visible. There are wavelengths that your senses and brain don't transform into visible light. If that were true of all wavelengths, there would be no "light" as you know it, only invisible radiation. If there is no eye or ear, then all is dark and silent energy.
by RosieGHM Jetpacker on January 24th, 2009
In order for "sound" to be meaningful, there has to be a receiver...someone or something that can respond. Human beings or other animals...animate objects..must be present. If there is no such receiver there, and the tree is surrounded by other trees, "sound" as we know it, doesn't exist. In the human being sound occurs when vibration from "noise" moves the stapes of the ear..that reverberation we call "sound". If the stapes is immobilized, one is deaf and cannot hear anything. So while sound is a theoretical possibility, in practice it means nothing. Happy Saturday! :)
by NotAnonymous on November 5th, 2008
depends on whether you were there to hear it.
by Chingles on November 5th, 2008
It makes a mess.
by Mastodon on November 5th, 2008
Yes
by Stargater on October 22nd, 2008
Yes because even if you and i not there
there are the birds, and the sqirrels, and the hedgehogs, foxes, and all the insects
if you think about it deep enough NOTHING is ever alone so anything will always make a noise
by mikemega on October 22nd, 2008
No, in fact, there was no tree at all.
Added later:
I think the real point of this question is to get you to realize a couple things.
One, that a "tree" is not a "tree" unless you are there experiencing it as what you think a tree is. Without you calling it a tree, naming it and seeing it, etc., it is it's own thing there. The same goes for the sound.
Two - If you weren't experiencing ANYTHING, would you exist to yourself? It is the tree (aka experience) that lets you define yourself and know that you're there. The same way YOU give the TREE it's definition.
The question's a trap, really. The real answer is mu, meaning not yes and not no.
by The Chief on August 8th, 2008
Some better questions:
"If a tree falls in forest, and it hits a mime, does anyone care?" (Far Side)
"If a man speaks in the forest and there is no woman there to hear it, is he still wrong? (George Carlin)
"If a tree falls and there is no one to see it fall, what color is the tree?" (Monkey Island II)
"If a tree falls in a forest, and we've already sold the tree, does it still have quality?" (Dilbert)
by Account Closed on July 29th, 2008
I asked a deaf man this question and he educated me in sound waves and vibrations. He said he could not hear but could feel the vibrations of a tree falling there for that which sends vibration waves sends sound. So the answer is yes it does.
by Not Here Anymore on May 20th, 2008
Of course it makes a sound. Some animal, some creature, some being is always around to 'hear' it. We as humans are not so almighty important that sound itself depends on our existence or presence.
by Talimze on April 1st, 2008
Yes.
by shady on April 1st, 2008
hmmm yes
by gone on January 12th, 2008
I read your other question about the flower blooming, too. Nature is not dependent on human beings, human beings are dependent on Nature. It reminds me of the Shakespeare quote, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies." So yes, Nature carries on, blooming and dying, in silence and sound, whether we wee humans witness it or not.
by Amorphous Blob on January 5th, 2008
It causes vibrations in the air waves, but if there's no ear apparatus connected to a brain to interpret it, you could argue that there's no "sound".
by Chaysgirl24 on January 3rd, 2008
Yeah why wouldn't it make a noise just because someone isn't there to hear it?
by Kacky on January 3rd, 2008
Yes. The sound waves still travel through the air, whether there is anyone to hear it or not.
by Stillme FBB on August 17th, 2007
Not that I hear.
by anonymous on August 17th, 2007
Timberrrrrrrrrrrrr
Letting go of desires ? Many are into eating junk food,obsess with sex,endless sensual pleasures. Yet those are known to cause suffering.
by shunyata on October 30th, 2010
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Lets hear opinions on why death exists at all.
by C_Anglin on January 12th, 2011
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ARE YOU negligent?
by shunyata on October 30th, 2010
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If you define your own morality, then what compels you to be constant in what you currently deem to be "evil" (or "good")?
by PhileoTruth on December 8th, 2010
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Which is the better existential novel, Camus' The Outsider, or Sartre's Nausea?
by nest on November 26th, 2010
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You're reading If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?
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Comments
From the point of view of the butterfly effect, a tree falling could lead to a hurricane, and they're loud
by jdoggiedogg on July 13th, 2006
Perfect answer.
by Jodie44 on December 9th, 2006
Yes yes, perfect answer.
by EverVigil on October 9th, 2008
You said, "The main purpose of such koans is not that we must figure out the 'right' answer, but rather that we open our minds in the process." This is an exceptionally insightful answer and one I'll remember. Some questions are, indeed, posed specifically to challenge our ability to think, to reason -- the very attributes of humans that make us different from other species.
by shsh38 on February 27th, 2010
was just thinking about the Old Question; "IF A TREE FALLS in the forest,and there's no one there to hear it,does it MAKE A SOUND?"
So can I ask I this question?
If Tree tree falls in the forest,and there's no one there to see it,did a tree fall? - (light waves/sound waves,etc).
According to science everything is made of Wave Motion.And if there is no one there with vocabulary to name everything?
We need sensors to experience everything in time and space.[the 5 senses].If we had different sensors to pick up different wave motion the world we create would appear very different.[example:if we had senses that picked up X-Rays,Gamma Ray's from outer space,Radio waves,etc].
"When you have been caught in the world of perception you are caught in a dream" - ACIM
Great book to recommend),Illusions:The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah. - by Richard Bach
by Kevin_C1062 on August 27th, 2010
Well @Kevin_, I suppose on one hand if you take the line that all trees will eventually fall at a random (or at least undetermined) point in the future, an unobserved tree in a forest starts to look like a big leafy version of Schrödinger's cat. On that basis, the tree has both fallen and not fallen at the same time until an observation collapses the wave function to one or other of those possibilities.
I agree with you that the same argument extends to "everything" - does unobserved reality exist at all other than as a set of probabilities? Niels Bohr (and others) would say it didn't. Uncle Albert would say that it did. Much as Einstein was great, good and much loved it's beginning to look like the Dane is having the last laugh (but only if there is someone there to hear him).
Overall I fully agree that many questions do not ultimately have concrete answers but the fun and wisdom comes from the debates about what those answers might be if they could be reached.
by Kiku on October 28th, 2011