- NEW!
by .avallach on May 11th, 2007
Nope. Next question?
We worship God through Christ.
I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me.
by Shabba on May 13th, 2007
Jesus never turned away worship. Not once. And there is no text in the bible saying "do not worship Jesus, worship God".
So no - Christianity does not go against the teachings of its messiah.
Since the fundamental theology of mainstream christians is that Jesus is God in the flesh, then there's no conflict here.
This seems to be a question more to Jesus' identity. As in "I'm not god, so don't worship me..."
The revelation quote has no relevance to this topic - all it is about is John explaining how the revelation was delivered to him.
As for "Jesus has a god, so Jesus isn't God" - go back and look at John chapter 1. You can change verse 1 any way you want and you still end up irrelevant because most people don't even read the verse. Instantly they associate this with Jesus, when Jesus isn't even mentioned. John is talking about the "logos", translated "Word". He's talking about the word of God. Jesus isn't mentioned until verse 17.
So John starts out talking about the Word of God. In verse 1 he talks about the Word of God BEING God. That makes sense. We are made in the image of God, so I believe we can look to ourselves for some clues. Look at yourself. Your word is part of you - part of who you are. As Jesus said, it comes from the heart, and goes out at your command. Jesus even said - "Out of the mouth comes the overflow of the heart".
Our word cannot exist without us - it is part of us and dependant upon us. If Neil Armstrong had never been born, his words of posterity would not exist either. So our word is not separate from us - it is a part of us. God's Word is the same - it is a part of him, that proceeds out from the overflow of his heart - love, truth, justice, righteousness.
Our word cannot contradict us. If I speak hateful words, are they going to contradict me and speak loving things instead? No. Our words are dependent upon us, and cannot do anything apart from us. So God's Word is the same - it is a part of him, dependent upon him, and unable to do anything apart from him. It cannot contradict him...
If you go to verse 14, you get the defining statement: "And the Word became flesh". Huh? What flesh? Who?... This is where Jesus comes in. He is the Word manifested in the flesh. He is God in the fact that he is the Word of God. He is not a separate being because the Word of God cannot exist without God - he is a part of God. He cannot do anything apart from God because he is a part of God.
As a human being, God was still his God, but as the Word manifested in the flesh, Jesus is God, just as my word is me. It can't be any other way. God denies the existence of any other deities - just go back and search the old testament and see how many times he denies it. He either has to be God or just a man. If he's just a man and he accepted worship from the people, that makes him an idolator and a sinner - and disqualifies him from being the messiah - the 'lamb without blemish (sin) that takes awayl the sin of the world'. Just one sin would have disqualified him from being the sacrificial lamb that bought our forgiveness with his blood.
If you look at all that is written about God and Jesus throughout the bible, it can't be any other way...
***
To answer the question of "How could God die?", you need to take a deeper look at the theology of Christianity. In the bible, there is actually no such thing as permanent death. The key thought to the way God created man is that we have an eternal spirit that cannot die. That's the power of heaven and hell - the concept of living for eternity in one place or the other. Nobody who has lived will 'cease to exist'. Some interpretations of the bible teach that the 'dead' are basically 'asleep' while they wait to be resurrected at judgement day. Others teach that the spirit/soul of a person is taken to paradise/punishment as soon as they die.
So... after all that: God is an eternal spirit. He always has been and always will be. As an eternal spirit he never has, nor ever will die. The Word of God (manifested as Jesus on earth) is also eternal. He has to be, unless God started out life as a mute... Yet if God is Jesus, and Jesus died - then God died. Isn't that how the logic works?
The answer to that is both yes and no. It all comes back to this eternal spirit thing. We are created in the image of God. We are an eternal spirit - living at this point in a temporal body. To the natural mind (i.e. without any 'spiritual' understanding), death is the end. Life is over... or is it? According to the bible, it's not. In fact, it's only the beginning for us.
If, as the bible suggests, we do have an eternal spirit, do WE really die? If this is true, then the answer to that would be no. Our physical body dies, but our spirit lives on. Now if Jesus is God in the body of a man, he could physically die, but his spirit would live on. So it is entirely possible for God (as a human being) to go through the experience of physical death - just as the rest of us do, but as a spirit it is impossible for him to 'die' in the sense of ceasing to exist at all - the same is true for us.
When Jesus died, his spirit - that is the Word of God - departed his body and (the bible teaches) descended into hell. There is some speculation on exactly what happened in the three days and nights Jesus was 'dead', but the bible seems to indicate that somewhere in that time, he descended into hell, took the keys to Death and Hades from the devil, and released all the captives.
Now the bible says that Jesus was without decay - the cause of death and decay in this world is sin. Jesus was sinless so there was no death or decay in him. It is entirely possible that his body lay in the tomb for several days without any form of decay taking hold. If a spirit is eternal and alive even after physical death, it is not impossible for a spirit to return to a body. If a spirit returned to a body and caused the body to live again, that would constitute resurrection.
The bible indicates that Jesus' resurrected body was 'glorified', which means his post-resurrection physiology may have been very different to normal humans. The truth to this question we'll never know this side of death, as there is nothing in the bible that gives us knowledge about it - apart from the fact that he still bore the wounds from his crucifixion.
Jesus' death on the cross is really only half of the equation. That death is pointless unless he did indeed raise from the dead, because he is the only one who can mediate the covenant he established. His death is the easy part... it's the resurrection, ascent into heaven, giving of the Holy Spirit, second coming, judgment and eternity that are the hard parts.
by Anonymous on May 13th, 2007
Considering the following quote, it would be wise to examine what's commonly taught, that Jesus is God, against what the Bible actually says.
John 20:17 (Today's New International Version)
Today's New International Version (TNIV)
© Copyright 2001, 2005 by International Bible Society
"17) Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "
If Jesus had a God then he could not BE God.
by iwnit on May 13th, 2007
I think Jesus did not say that, his Angel said that.
I use Revelation 21 / 22 in the "New International Version"
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=21&version=31
There are two different agents talking to John and they are not always easy to keep apart.
1) "He who was seated on the throne" (21:5)= Jesus
2) "One of the seven angels" (21:9)= the Angel
(The following is just what I understand, I am not absolutely certain of every guess)
Who says which verse:
Jesus: 21:5 to 21:8
Angel: 22:6
Jesus: 22:7
Angel: 22:9
Jesus: 22:10 to 22:16
The Spirit and the bride: 22:17
For me it is certain, that in 22:8 John "fell down to worship at the feet of the angel" and that in 22:9 the Angel says "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!"
So Jesus did not say that, only his Angel did said that!
by ashley on July 29th, 2007
god said there is only one god and you should worship no other. it is even a commandment.... so being a previous christian and knowing the eastern faith very well i do belive anyone who worships jesus is wrong. jesus is NOT god he is the son of god...just like you and me... daughters and sons of god. i think people now days really have to go and read the bible and study their religion if they are going to say they belive in god. As for others before me saying jesus did not say that... you are right, but god did! i find eastern christian religons very hypocritcal! if you disagree with me, please open your bible and read the first 3 commandment! jesus is not god therefore should not be worship as god. There is only ONE god worship him not his son!
by Thom64 on May 13th, 2007
Your hypothetical question is not useful. It is not "written in the Bible that Jesus said 'Do not worship me.'" So your qustion basically asks "if the Bible said things it doesn't say then..."
I acknowledge that there are people who read this idea into the Bible, but no reputable translation of the Bible says this.
If you disagree.. post the reference and the translation you are using.
by William on May 19th, 2008
If you really want an answer to your question about the divinity of Jesus, then here goes.
Christianity during Jesus time did not teach that he was god.
Matter of fact Jesus even said that after he was gone, many of his teachings would be corrupted.
Notice:
"I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." - ACTS 20:29,30
"However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances..." - 1 Timothy 4:1
The Trinity
Trinity (definition) – That the Father, the Son (Jesus), and holy ghost are all together god, each eternal, each almighty, and none greater of less than the other.
The belief that Jesus Christ is god, is based on the idea of the trinity.
But if you take a look at the history of this teaching:
First the word trinity or the teaching is never found in the bible.
Also the Encyclopaedia Britannica says that the belief of the trinity or that Jesus was god or was part of god did not even exist until two to three hundred years after the death of Jesus. The Encyclopedia Americana says - “Fourth century Trinitarianism was a deviation from early Christian teaching.”
This teaching was adopted into “Christianity” from pagan religions from Egypt, Babylon, from Hinduism, and even from the philosopher Plato that taught the trinity belief 400 years before Jesus.
Finally the trinity became the central teaching of the church not because of the bible but because of the order of the Roman Emperor Constantine who was pagan himself. He really couldn’t care less about bible teachings but only wanted to end the debate between church leaders to keep unity in his kingdom. After he made that decision in the year 381, anyone that openly disagreed with the trinity were violently persecuted or killed with the permission of the church.
Back to the Scriptures
After that history lesson
In reading the bibles record of Jesus, Jesus never claimed to be God or any part of God. Everything he said about himself indicated that he did not consider himself equal to God in any way – not in power, not in knowledge, or age. The bible calls Jesus
“the only-begotten Son” of God (John 1:14; 1 John 4:9)
- First off, John 1:18 – “No man has seen God at any time…”
(The bible says no man has ever seen god but thousands saw and interacted with Jesus during his earthly life.)
- God has no beginning and no end.
Psalms 90:2 – “…even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.”
But the bible says that Jesus was “the firstborn of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15)
Also see (Revelation 3:14)
Unlike God, Jesus was created and had a beginning.
- Notice another scripture.
When a man came to fall at Jesus’ feet and then called him “Good Teacher”, Jesus said to him at
Mark 10:17, 18 “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.”
(If Jesus himself was god would that statement make any sense?
Jesus always directed any praise to god, not to himself.)
- John 14:28 – “The Father is greater than I.” (Jesus talking)
- 1 Corinthians 11:3 - “…the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.”
(The bible always talks of God of being superior in power to Jesus.)
- Philippians 2:6 – “…Jesus Christ, who, although he was existing in God’s form (as a spirit in heaven) gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.”
- Also 1 Timothy 2:5 Says that the disciples viewed Jesus as the “one mediator between God and men,” not as God himself. A mediator is obviously someone separate from those who need mediation, not part of one of the two parties that need mediation.
---That’s just a short list of the many accounts since I did want to make this to long---
But the bible is clear and consistent about the relationship of God to Jesus. Jesus Christ always distinguishes himself from God and showed that he never desired to be seen or worshipped as god. That he only wished to do the will of his father.
Consider
Psalms 83:18 – “That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the most high over all the earth.”
Isaiah 12:2 – “Look! God is my salvation. I shall trust and be in no dread; for Jah Jehovah is my strength and my might, and he came to be the salvation of me.”
Jesus stressed the importance of his father’s name at John 17:26 – “I have made your name known to them and will make it known.”
Even in Jesus model prayer:
- Matthew 6:9 – “YOU must pray, then, this way:
“Our Father in the heavens let your name be sanctified…”
Another thing
Many people don’t know that when they say Hallelujah, it means “praise Jah” short for Jehovah.
Even Jesus’ name itself means “Jehovah is Salvation”
The mother of the prophet Moses was named Jochebed, which means “Jehovah Is Glory”
The prophet Joel in the bible, his name means, “Jehovah is God”
The prophet Elijah in the bible name means “My God Is Jehovah”
Isaiah’s name means “Salvation of Jehovah”
Hezekiah, Josiah, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Zechariah and Zephaniah all are well-known Bible names whose meanings involve Jehovah, or Jah, the shorter poetic form of Jehovah’s name.
Even many people’s names today have Jehovah in their meaning:
Johnson means “Jehovah has favored”
The name Jonathan means, “Jehovah has given”
Joshua means, “Jehovah is salvation” or “Jehovah rescues”
Jacqueline, Jackie, Jacquelyn, John and Jack means, “Jehovah has been gracious”
Chanya means “The Grace of Jehovah”
Kayla means “Jehovah has given”
Joey means "Jehovah increases"
Jesse means “Jehovah exists”
Jeremiah and Jeremy means “appointed by Jehovah”
Josiah means “Jehovah supports”
Joe or Joesph means “May Jehovah give increase”
Jane, Jan, Janelle, Janet, Janice, Janie, Janine,
Joan, Joanne, Jodie, Joni, Jonie, Joanna, Johannah all are variations that mean
“Jehovah is gracious”
One last thing:
Also remember that “god” is not a name, it’s a title.
Just like “boy” or “king”, “God” and “Lord” are titles,
“God” is anything you choose to worship. Your money can be your “God”, your possessions can be a “God”, but the only God the bible points to is Jehovah, God’s name.
---Explanation of pictures---
-The "Christian" Trinity was just a pagan befief that was incorporated into the church hundreds of years after Christ.
The pictures are of the Hundu trinity, then the ancient Egyptian trinity, and finally the "Christian" trinity.
-An ancient painting of the scene in Nicaea when Emperor Constantine made his decision-
by CaptainHarley adores his life penguin on October 25th, 2009
Where in the bible does it say that? I know that Jesus said, "Why do you call me 'good?' Only God is good." He also said many other things which would indicate that he intended us to worship God, such as the Lord's Prayer, which begins, "Our Father."
by tripwire on August 31st, 2008
Who cares? Go out and get laid!! I think Jesus would agree with me on this
by ...trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. on May 26th, 2007
Jesus never said for us not to worship Him. He is God Almighty. (see John 1:1, Hebrews Ch.1, I John 5:7.)
I hope that this is helpful.
-In the Master's service.
Thank you and God bless you!
by Ahmed_225 on October 25th, 2009
i wonder how the fundamental faith in chrestianity is not mentioned never in the bible !!!
quran 5:116-117 ((And when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and unseen. ...Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world)))
Wake up People!
by skittle300 on November 9th, 2009
Matt 4:10
For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.'NKJV This was Jesus talking. Nowhere in the Boble that we are told to worship Jesus, We are only to worship God the Father.
by Mary Maguire on October 25th, 2009
I don't believe that Jesus said that.........
by Simply Salsa... on October 25th, 2009
What about 'Thou shall not lie' .....
by Disciple on July 29th, 2007
Yeshuwa' HaMashiyach (Yeshuwa' the Messiah) did command that he should NOT be worshipped.
The "Messenger" or "Angel" in Revelation 1:1 is Yeshuwa'[Yeshua]. This is confirmed by the apostle John who writes that when he "turned to see the voice (Rev 1:12) he saw "one like a son of Man" (Rev 1:13) which refers to Yeshuwa'.
In Rev 22:8 we read that when the apostle John "fell down to worship before the feet of the Messenger (Yeshuwa') who showed him these things" (Rev 22:8) he was shaply rebuked by Yeshuwa' who told John "do not do that ...worship thou Elohiym" (Rev 22:9).
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/revelation.html
Patrick Geaney
by alwayslovegod on February 4th, 2012
I think that the problem is the misunderstanding of who God and Jesus are. The Bible never mentions the word trinity, yet a lot of Christians swear by the word. Jesus was Gods son and through Jesus is how we attain our relationship with the Father.
"Jesus had a mission to accomplish as God’s anointed one, and the entire theme of the Bible states that mission: “For I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent me... And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life...” (John 6:38, 40) Here we see that God is the author, and Jesus is the honored executor of the Father’s plans."
To continue this explanation please go http://www.biblestudents.com/htdbv5/htdb0086.htm
by Assa on December 19th, 2010
it goes like this: "And I John saw these things and heard them. And i fell down to WORSHIP before the feet of the Angel(Jesus.A.s) which had showed me these things. Then saith He(Jesus.A.s) unto me, "See thou do it not" for i am a fellow SERVENT, and of thy BRETHREN the Prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this Book: WORSHIP GOD. Revelation (22:8-9) so all these people who who said " Jesus said to worhip him Etc are all completely WRONG
by valis on May 14th, 2010
FORGET ALL THE ANSWERS EXCEPT THIS: Believe in (and love) Jesus and ask for the Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13 Matthew 7:11... and ask for a while and make sure God hears you.. you may have to yell violently if nothing happens.. and show passion.. three weeks of asking and a week of screaming at the sky and SOMETHING HAPPENED FOR ME. Took a while, GOD ain't a pushover.. and HE wants to see who wants it.. and who wants it BAD. Because once HE opens that door, it ain't closing.. EVER.. and THE seal on your forehead too.. feels really good.. like a halo or invisible love that is just everywhere in the head and heart.. like a new head .. and heart.. pushing out all thoughts and leaving LOVE everywhere ONLY... And you get connected to Christ and God and heaven is placed inside you! Then YOU will automatically be WORSHIPING GOD IN SPIRIT! A new Spirit that HE gives you ... HIS!
Matthew 11:12 - Jesus said:
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
peace
by jin jang on July 29th, 2007
Deleted
by Friendo on August 31st, 2008
If that's what YOUR bible says, then Yep.
by ScienceSwamy on October 25th, 2009
This happened to Buddha too!
The guy even said 'there is no god' to worship!
So 'Da DumBuddhists' made a god out of Buddha!
What a tragic failure!
by contend1 on October 25th, 2009
You seem to be on a fishing expo, the way that you ask you question would set up someone who's too lazy to read God's word, and render you the answer you desire. The jews attempted to kill Jesus many times for as they put it claiming to be God.
The Poster, or imposter have to be a JW....
who continues to ignor scripture. Who Johavah is can only be revealed to those who know him, and to those who he reveals himself to. Even satan knows scripture, as far as I am concerned it is plain... Jesus is God the Father, just because some can't understand it, and try to rationalize it with human logic means nothing, I want get tripped up by the socalled trinity, yet I see the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one.
Gen. 1.1" In the begining God created the heaves, and the earth, it did not say gods, who was with God in the beginining? Christ was... "let us make man in our own image". who was the us? The Father Son and the Holy Spirit... John 1 said every thing was created by Christ, who was God on earth. Isaih 9:6 calls Jesus the Father... When Thomas asked Jesus who is the Father this is what Jesus said "Thomas said to [Jesus], ‘Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?’ Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also, and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.’ Philip said to Him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, Show us the Father’?" (John 14:5-9 NKJV).
by itinary on July 23rd, 2009
When I went to one of the churches I saw them worshipping Jesus's idol. literally they were all touching the feet etc.
Isn't it idol worship?
by andthenitsgone on August 31st, 2008
Can you tell me where it says that in there? Please consult this one...
Matthew 22:43-46.
by dlo on April 11th, 2010
Share your answer...
Even the angels worshipped Jesus.
Hebrews 1:6 NIV
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
So if the angels are told to worship him, then so should we.
As for the Trinity, even Jesus verified that there is a Father, A Son and A Holy Spirit and we are to worship, teach, preach, baptized in these names.
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Sandy
Is there a study guide along with"Know the Bible in 30 Days"?
by Answerbag Staff on July 11th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
What year did ronald knox publish the new testament?
by Answerbag Staff on July 6th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
According to the bible.. has God always been honest?
by aldonoir on January 17th, 2012
| 3 people like this
Who publishes the new King James Bible?
by Answerbag Staff on June 14th, 2010
| 1 person likes this
Christians, does the Great Commission (Matt 28:18-20) still apply and still matter today? This is a follow up of my first question.
by Parepidemos on January 14th, 2012
| 2 people like this
You're reading If it is written in the bible that Jesus said "Do not worship me, worship God", then doesn't the basic concept of Christianity go expressly againts the teachings of it's own mesiah?
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Comments
Okay, then here's the next question: What's the difference between worhiping a person and worshiping "Through" them?
Could that not be seen as a form of holding false idols?
by Mr. Meaulnes on May 11th, 2007
That's actually an interesting question.
by Vashtar on May 11th, 2007
I agree with this post... and this IS an interesting question! +3!!
It may be easier to understand if you think of Jesus as an Ambassador. An Ambassador represents a country and speaks with the Ruler of that Country's authority but he is not the Ruler.
by Anonymous on May 14th, 2007
Correct! Jesus spoke just as the Father told him .John12:49,50. The Son is in Subjection to the Father 1Cor.15:28. The Father is Greater than i am.John14:28.
by Tomb Raider on November 10th, 2008
Like eating with a fork & knife, or
'drinking piss through a straw', I suppose...?
by ScienceSwamy on October 25th, 2009