by Ridiculous on April 29th, 2007

Ridiculous

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Is it true that Sicilians are dark haired/dark skined as compaired to Northern Italians because they were invaded by the Moors (arabs) that changed their bloodline?

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  • by Aphoristes on January 23rd, 2009

    Aphoristes

    It should be noted that (unfortunately) Sicilians are usually referrred to by mainland Italians by a word which means "Africans"...and they're not even accepted as actually BEING Italian by many of the narrower-minded. And while everyone from Carthegenians (north Africa) to Normans (Denmark by way of France) have passed through and left their genetic imprint on the locals, that hardly qualifies them as either Moor, Phoenecian or Norse. Truth be told, there are no "pure" ANYTHINGS among our species, as such cycles of contact and conquest have been going on for as long as people have had the urge to see or possess new places or been attracted to the opposite sex among what are to them "exotic" peoples. Or, as a Sicilian fellow with whom I work says (in a mock accent), "You calla me black and I breaka you face, goombah!"

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  • by Talimze on January 22nd, 2009

    Talimze

    Arabic Moors from Tunisia did invade and conquer Sicily in 965, and were ousted 130 years later. Also, Carthaginians from Tunisia controlled the western part of Sicily for 150 years. I would consider either one of those worthy explainations. Although, Greeks and Romans colonized and controlled Sicily for much longer, and that explains even better why most Sicilians look more like other Italians.

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  • by Chezter is going to save the Redheads on September 19th, 2008

    Chezter is going to save the Redheads

    Did you just watch "True Romance" by chance? Good scene :)

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  • by Anonymous on September 19th, 2008

    Anonymous

    I also just wanted to add that with respect to North Africans, I wasn't trying to imply that all North Africans have sub-Saharan admixture nowadays, but the reality is that a great many do. Also of note is that Tunisia, which is only 80-90 miles away from Sicily, seemed to have served as one of the main countries in North Africa which imported black African slaves during the Arab slave trade from roughly the 14th to 19th centuries (and still going on in parts of Sudan and Mauritania). The result is that most Tunisians, who account for most North African immigrants in Sicily, stick out like sore thumbs there. Tunisians and other North Africans may be said to be primarily Arab/Berber in ancestry but with visible sub-Saharan admixture many times.

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  • by Anonymous on September 18th, 2008

    Anonymous

    Being half Sicilian I can say that this idea is very much an urban legend. It is true that Sicilians are on average darker than northern Italians but as one post already mentioned, it has more to do with climate/indigenous populations.

    Actually what makes Sicilians and some other southern Italians distinct is the large amount of Greek ancestry that they have, dating from Greek colonists who settled both areas in large numbers during ancient and Byzantine times. Sicilians are indisputably closest to Greeks in terms of peoples with whom they share a common origin.

    The Moorish invasions of medieval times certainly had some impact on the gene pool, but it was much less so than commonly thought. During Muslim rule, many native Sicilians converted to Islam, and it's estimated that roughly half of the population was still Christian.

    Also don't forget about the Normans. The Normans were actually responsible for Latinizing Sicily and making it more like Italy by conquering it while still under Muslim Arab rule. These Normans (Scandinavian/French in origin) also settled in Sicily, bringing with them many settlers from mainland Italy and France, who displaced many of the Arabs who were either expelled or voluntarily left the island for Muslim lands in North Africa. Although some of the Arabs remained and converted to Christianity as the Normans were pretty tolerant of the diverse cultures found in Sicily, many others were expelled or left.

    Genetic studies place Sicilians as being closest with Greeks and other southern Italians, suggesting that the indigenous Sicilians and Greek settlers had the greatest impact on the Sicilian gene pool by far.

    So in essence, it's quite incorrect to state that Sicilians are predominantly Moorish in ancestry. Also of significance is the fact that the Moors who invaded Sicily were not sub-Saharan (black) African as is thought by some folks, but were instead overwhelmingly Caucasian Arabs and Berbers of Mediterranean appearance. To the peoples they conquered they must have seemed dark because they were darker than most Europeans, but judging from the fact that Sicilians have always been a Mediterranean people, they were probably only a little darker than the native Sicilians of the time.

    Sicilians with Arabic features are not the norm in Sicily. People with the typical S. European Greco-Roman look are, plus some even show signs of Norman/French ancestry with blond hair and/or blue eyes.

    Also, modern-day North Africans have also changed a bit from medieval times as they tend to have more sub-Saharan ancestry from the slave trade, making them appear noticeably darker and distinct-looking in a crowd of Sicilians.

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  • by Jimmyp on April 27th, 2008

    Jimmyp

    This is an urban legend. While southern Italians tend to be darker than northern Italians it has a lot more to do with climate and indigenous people than migration. People have been living in southern Europe for tens of thousands of years.

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  • by Kevisaurus is a Carnotaurus today on April 29th, 2007

    Kevisaurus is a Carnotaurus today

    Remember that Carthage way back in the Punic war era held Sicily as a colony, and that Carthage is modern day Tunisia, one can see this went way back in time, well before the year 800.

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  • by Firebrand on April 29th, 2007

    Firebrand

    People from the South of Italy and Sicily do tend to be darker than people from the north .

    The possibility is the Invasion of the Moors that is certainly they case in Spain.

    The Moors who were a part Arabic race invaded Southern Italy around 800 AD

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  • by Laura_L on September 9th, 2010

    Laura_L

    Here's an interesting discourse in the comments section to an interesting and controvertial article on the subject.
    There is a lot of detailed though slightly heated back and forth but lots of good information.
    http://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/sicilians-have-10-sub-saharan-african-dna/

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  • by LePoupon is a proper gander. on September 9th, 2010

    LePoupon is a proper gander.

    Its a fact, now tell me, am I lying? Because you're part egg plant.

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  • by Anonymous on September 24th, 2009

    Anonymous

    Ma cu di vuautri nascìu piddaveru in Sicilia? As a real Sicilian, I can tell you that Sicilians are a subrace of their own. This might not always be evident for every single Sicilian in terms of physical features, but it can proven through DNA. There have been many investigations undertaken in terms of Sicilian genetics and these can be found online. In the meantime, I'm going to offer you my own simplified version of the Sicilian population history that can also be verified by means of various websites and publications. The aboriginal Sicilian people were called the "Sicani" and are believed to be of non Indo-European origin! Later in western Sicily, the "Elimi" arrived from Asia Minor. In the east arrive the "Siculi" (who give Sicily its name), possibly a Latin people, who eventually overtook the entire island, absorbing the Sicani and Elimi into the new Siculi population. These three groups are referred to as the "original tribes" of Sicily, something that is unique to the island, and not shared with mainland Italy. It was not until 735 B.C. that the "Greeks" began to colonize eastern Sicily. Around the same time, the "Carthaginians" (Phoenicians who had already settled Carthage in North Africa) were colonizing western Sicily. After the Punic Wars, the entire island succumbed to the Romans in 227 B.C. Sicily was then part of the Roman Empire until 440 A.D. After the fall of Rome, Sicily was invaded by the "Vandals" and "Ostrogoths." In 533 A.D., Sicily was annexed by the "Byzantines" making Sicily more or less "Greek" once more. In 827 A.D., Sicily was invaded by tens of thousands of "Arabs" from Tunisia. From 965 until 1072, the island was an Islamic state known officially as the "Emirate of Sicily" during which time "Berber", "Persian", and "Egyptian" Muslims were sent to populate the island. To reiterate, this ethnic history is unique to Sicilians up to this point and is not shared with mainland Italians or southern Italians. Next, Sicily was invaded by the "Normans" (a Nordic-Norseman-Scandanavian people who founded Normandy in France). In 1130, the Normans created the first Kingdom of Sicily, which also (temporarily) included southern Italy and Malta. Due to intermarrying between European royal families, Sicily was ruled by Angevin (French), Swabian (German), and Aragonese (Spanish) monarchs. However, this had little effect on the actual population, with minor immigration from these areas. In 1442, the Kingdom of Sicily was joined with the Kingdom of Naples (comprising all of southern Italy) forming the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. During this phase, Sicily was ruled by Aragonese (Spanish), Savoyard (French), Hapsburg (Austrian), and Bourbons (Spanish). Again, this had little effect on the actual population, with little to no immigration from these areas. Sicily was briefly independent from 1848-1849 before being conquered by the Bourbons (Two Sicilies) once again. It was not until 1860 that Sicily was annexed to Italy. After World War II, while Italy was still under Fascist-Nazi control, Sicily was freed by the American Allied forces in 1944. Sicily almost became the 50th American state at this time (Hawaii wasn’t a state yet) due to the fact that Sicilians never quite felt "Italian" with their own Sicilian language, culture, and history, as well as the fact that there were very strong ties between Sicily and America fostered by the enormous Sicilian-American population at the time. However, it is believed that the "powers" to be did not want this and after a brief struggle for independence, Sicily accepted autonomy (semi-independence) within a future Italian state. Italy was finally freed and became a Republic in 1946. As you can see, Sicily has been more of its own nation and population/ethnic group than it has been so-called "Italian" throughout its history. This is why Sicilians retain a separate and unique bloodline from other Italians. As already mentioned this includes, but is not limited to, the Arabs.

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  • by Saint73 on December 23rd, 2009

    Saint73

    It's funny how everyone is saying, "No no no" and "It's just a myth!" And "Hey dont say that!"
    Who knew one line from a movie could make an old saying come back to life...The White slave masters screwed with the black slave women and girls...there's no denials, and re-assuring posts or "Myth" connotations associated with that piece of history. So I guess the lesson is....The white man can have sex with all the black women we want.....but if the "African" or Black man story gets out about them banging white women....all hell breaks loose....damage control, time is it? lol at this nonsense

  • by William_M9762 on January 28th, 2011

    William_M9762

    FIrst of all, even before the Moorish invasion, Sicilians would have looked nothing like Northern Italians. Sicily and southern Italy were originally part of Magna Graecia (Greater Greece). Many darker Sicilians are merely of Greek ancestry. This has been the main cultural factor that has seperated them from Northern Italy for centuries. There is no Greek heritage whatsoever among northern Italians (they are of Roman, Etruscan, and Latin origin). The Moorish invasion undoubtedley contributed to the diversity of Sicily but this is not the sole explanation for their darker appearance. To reiterate, Sicilians and other southern Italians never had the same "bloodline" as northern Italians to begin with.

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  • by Anonymous on March 26th, 2011

    Anonymous

    Moors were Caucasian featured with narrow noses, straight hair,blue/grey eyes and olive skin.No they did not conquer Sicily!

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