by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011

Question

Help answer this question below.

Should Virginia criminalize tobacco smoking, masturbation or some other victimless, private activity to boost its economy?

New Virginia prison sits empty, at a cost of more than $700,000 a year. 10 other prisons have been closed since 2009. This has cost thousands of high pay jobs in a state with 11% unemployment.

Criminalizing new private activities could compliment other already criminal choices such as prostitution, gambling and drug usage. Apart from wanking and cigs, they could also criminalize liquor, fatty foods, any behavior at all on the part of the mother that might threaten a fetus (sub-optimal diet and exercise, prenatal medical care, negligently poor avoidance of second hand smoke, etc).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-virginia-prison-sits-empty-at-a-cost-of-more-than-700000-a-year/2011/05/25/AGXZqwEH_story.html?hpid=z3

Like
Report

Share:: Facebook; Twitter; Other

Answers. 7 helpful answers below.

by truthWarrior on May 31st, 2011

Asker's Pick

Selected by the asker, 23Skidoo. (What's this?)

Asker's Pick

On Answerbag, the member who originally submits a question can identify the answers that he or she finds most valuable. "Asker's Pick" answers show you which answers best addressed the question on the original submitter's mind.
LOL. They really are looking for excuses these days.

The prison is expensive when it's empty, but it's even more expensive when it's full. A prison is a drain on the economy not a contribution. The public sector adds absolutely no value to the economy. It may provide a valuable service to society but it does so at the expense of the private sector and private sector workers who pay all the tax to pay for it. (Tax payed by public sector workers is just money going around in circles).

The only thing that helps an economy is the private sector producing goods and services. It would be less of a drain to pay social security to unemployed prison officers, than pay them more to do something pointless. America has one of the highest prison populations in the world. You should let all the drug addicts out. That would save a bundle. It's very expensive to jail people who aren't losers. People who would make tax contributions if not in jail effectively cost more to incarcerate.

Trying to create jobs in this way is like trying to give someone a blood transfusion by syphoning blood out of the right arm, spilling a little on floor, and injecting the rest into the left arm.

For every job created in the public sector by taxation, more than one equivalent job is lost in private sector since the tax system is not 100% efficient. (The civil servants at the tax office make no contribution to the economy but are drawing a salary, sending mail etc.)

Of course this analogy assumes that the public sector job does actual provide a service as valuable as the private sector job it destroys. Since most public sector jobs are bureaucratic bullshit this is very doubtful. It also assumes that we can at least balance the budget, which we can't.

If the public sector actually owned some profit making assets it wouldn't be such a parasite. In a perfect world the government would run a budget surplus and invest the money. Eventually the return on publicly held assets would be enough to run the public sector without needing taxes. Sadly we do the opposite. We run up bigger and bigger debts that consume more and more public money in interest payments.
Comments
- Damn you (free) thinkers!!!
  
  How dare you point out the obvious.
  
  It's why I've been suggesting legalizing, or at least decriminalizing all victimless crimes.
  
  The problem there is that many prisons are private - hence private sector jobs. The states have long term contracts with the companies. Also, there are powerful prison guard unions - so the companies and the unions create a powerful lobby.
  
  There's a reason America has the most people in jail - both as a percent of population and in hard numbers - of any country on Earth.
  
  BTW - I love your transfusion image. Perfect!
  
  :-)
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
- I think private prisons are unethical. The slave labour of inmates undercuts the labour of honest citizens, driving down everyones wages.
  
  By having public sector prisons we hopeful create a system that aspires to create good citizens that can be released. We want a system that sees unnecessary jail time as a waste of resources.
  
  No private company would do that. Who wants to lose business? They will lobby the government to throw away the keys for victimless offences, so they can keep their slave labour force forever.
  
  The worst of all is when the prison is a public private hybrid. When profits are privatised and losses are socialised you have a fascist economy.
  
  Report
  
  by truthWarrior on May 31st, 2011
- Again, I agree. But it is the system that is pervasive in the US.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
Add a comment...
- Like
- Report
3 comments | Post one | Permalink
by Hardcore Conservative on May 31st, 2011
Maybe they should take some of the prisoners that California is going to release. Or maybe they should put all the illegal aliens in there. After all, there is something inherently illegal about being an illegal alien.
Comments
- An excellent point. Maybe they could rent out prison space.
  
  As for illegals - I agree. After all - the rich don't need nanny's, migrant farm laborers are unnecessary (we all know they are taking jobs from honest, good Americans who are drooling for the chance at backbreaking work at $10/day) and hotels shouldn't need vacuuming.
  
  We are in 100% agreement. But will it be enough? After all - I bet many other states have similar problems.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
- If they don't like the $10/day, they can get naturalized and get a real job.
  Employers need to be punished for hiring illegals, from the rich nanny to the bean pickers.
  
  Report
  
  by Hardcore Conservative on May 31st, 2011
- It's not illegals who don't want the money. Obviously they risk a lot for it.
  
  And I'm sure they'd accept legal status if it were possible.
  
  But sine, as we all know, they are taking jobs away from Real Americans and there is so much political resistance to any amnesty or worker status - it's much better to throw them in jail at a cost of $50,000 per head per annum.
  
  I agree with you completely.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
- Keep them out of jail and send their asses back, whether it's back to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Spain, Japan, wherever.
  No amnesty. Worker status only if it's beneficial to us.
  
  Report
  
  by Hardcore Conservative on June 2nd, 2011
- The cost of sending can be high - unless you just mean push them off the beach.
  
  Beneficial? Like I said - how many Americans do you know just yearning for a hotel maid or migrant farm labor job? Many pay taxes but get no refunds or benefits.
  
  I don't like illegal status either. But the west needs people willing to work for tiny pages - usually from poor countries where even the pittance is a step up.
  
  There should simply be a worker status from which there is a path to green card and citizenship. Otherwise there will always be that necessary yet illegal class of people.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on June 2nd, 2011
- The cost will be high, initially (depending on how the beaucracy does it), but I believe it will save us in the long run.
  
  Those recieving jobless benefits will benefit from actually getting a job.
  
  And you're right, there will always be that class of illegals. Our job is to keep that class small and they should not be benefitting from our laws while they continue to break them.
  
  Report
  
  by Hardcore Conservative on June 3rd, 2011
Add a comment...
- Like
- Report
6 comments | Post one | Permalink
by Gliderman Chased Away By Moron2Be on May 31st, 2011
Tobacco smoking is not "victimless," in fact it victimizes literally everybody, not just the smoker but also those around him/her and everyone who has to pay for his/her health care.
Comments
- So that's even a better reason to throw smokers in jail for a long... long time!
  
  Of course, if we use that as a rationale then we'll have to throw drivers in jail as well. Think of the accident victims, the cell phone using drivers, the pollution from cars directly as well as that from the support industries like asphalt manufacture.
  
  yes, I like your thinking. If we criminalize driving then those prisons could be filled in a jiffy.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
- How dare you label your false analogy as "my thinking"!!!?? Driving has nothing to do with smoking. You can avoid the emissions with electric or more efficient cars, and you can avoid crashes by driving safely. Cigarettes are simply bad by definition and in ways that are largely unavoidable.
  
  So going by your thinking (equating two random concepts), your post promotes terrorism and should be reported to Homeland Security immediately.
  
  You are a troll and I am not willing to read any more from you about this.
  
  Report
  
  by Gliderman Chased Away By Moron2Be on May 31st, 2011
- More people are killed by second hand drivers than by second had smokers. Face facts.
  
  I was simply extrapolating your reasoning. If you don't like the end, rethink the beginning.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
- Gliderman... bullshit!, its a free choice if one wants to smoke.. you know what free choice is don't you?.. now for that free choice smokers and tobacco growers and ciggie manufactures pay millions and millions and millions of dollars in taxes every year and have done so for the last 100 years .. now care to add up how many BILLIONS AND BILLIONS that has added to the tax bucket .. the bucket that smokers get NOTHING back from. It all goes to other social programs that help EVERYONE .. where would these programs be without these taxes..up shit creek. As for everyone else having to pay for their health care..again bullshit, 85% of smokers have health insurance so they pay for their own care... or are you saying they should not be allowed to use that health care. Second hand smoke is almost bullshit as well its been blown totally out of all proportion and twisted for use by the non smoking groups to suit their own purposes..example, sitting outdoors having a coffee outside a coffee shop.. now non smokers whinge their guts out about being poisoned by a smoker puffing away and how secondhand smoke is killing them and yet they sit on plastic chairs at plastic tables( carcinogenic) next to a road full of cars and trucks pumping out fumes full of known carcinogenic substances which are driving on tar roads which put out carcinogens etc and yet they pick on a smoker!.. sorry but that just scream hypocrites. And by the way I am NOT a ciggie smoker.
  
  Report
  
  by buxtonite ..slowly losing my mind on May 31st, 2011
- The real point, in my opinion, is not that smoking should be criminalized, but rather that your question is loaded - it makes a false claim about tobacco smoking. Many human activities cause some harm to other people, and we as a society have to make the choice between what is acceptable harm (or risk of harm) and what is not.
  
  Report
  
  by RSman on June 2nd, 2011
- RS - obviously my question is loaded but not with anything regarding smoking.
  
  The US imprisons more people than any other country on Earth - both as a percent of population and in hard numbers. Approximately 3/4 of them are there for non-violent drug infractions. This trend to a sharp upswing under Reagan with the push for mandatory sentencing.
  
  There is an increasing trend to privatize prisons - which means that there is a strong profit motive to put ever greater numbers of people behind bars. There is also a very strong prison guard union.
  
  So - should the US keep so many people behind bars simply for the sake of the money involved? Of is "land of the free" just a bitter and ironic myth?
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on June 2nd, 2011
- I meant the point of his original comment, not the discussion at large. I agree that many non-violent offenses result in over-long prison sentences which do more to create individuals who are likely to re-offend than they do to reform society.
  
  A longer view will, I think, agree that there is more money to be made in creating productive law-abiding citizens than there is in imprisoning people for minor offenses in order to give prison guards something to do.
  
  Report
  
  by RSman on June 2nd, 2011
Add a comment...
- Like
- Report
7 comments | Post one | Permalink
by RSman on June 2nd, 2011
You've asked a loaded question, in that it carries a false inherent assumption which any reasonable answerer must accept before responding. Tobacco smoking is hardly a "victimless" activity, unless it is done in a private space where reasonable precautions have been taken to prevent exposing others to the toxins it releases.

I am a lifelong sufferer of asthma, which is aggravated by exposure to tobacco smoke. In the normal course of living my life, I am often presented with a choice between seriously inconveniencing myself (by going out of my way to avoid smokers, particularly in groups) or further endangering my health.

While not a serious offense, I'd say that's certainly more harmful than stealing candy bars from a store, which is already a crime. So in what way is smoking tobacco victimless?

If you're going to ask a serious question, try going here first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Comments
- My friend - this is a serious question. I don't need you or Wiki to tell me how and what to ask.
  
  Smoking is victimless. Just as much, if not more so than driving, hunting, boating or a host of other human activities that potentially have consequences for other people.
  
  People have all sorts of allergies, medical conditions, preferences etc which force them to make choices between convenience and health. For instance, an allergy to peanuts can be fatal - that doesn't mean people who use peanut oil are committing a crime even if that activity happens to kill someone (assuming it wasn't intentional). Also, may people are allergic to bee stings - that doesn't make beekeeping an offence - criminal or otherwise.
  
  I am truly sorry for your condition that sometimes inconveniences you but I have to say be glad that it's not worse. Try an allergy to wheat products - THAT is an inconvenience.
  
  No - second had drivers kill and maim many, MANY more people annually than smokers do. It's part of the price of modern life.
  
  Now, instead of linking to the fallacies - how about considering the actual question (remove the smoking bit if you can't handle the real question as is) rather than lecturing me about serious questions. No one who attempts such a ridiculous diversion has the slightest right to lecture on logic or to try and belittle anyone else. Answer the question or go back to the sandbox to play.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on June 2nd, 2011
- My friend - this is a serious question. I don't need you or Wiki to tell me how and what to ask.
  
  Smoking is victimless. Just as much, if not more so than driving, hunting, boating or a host of other human activities that potentially have consequences for other people.
  
  People have all sorts of allergies, medical conditions, preferences etc which force them to make choices between convenience and health. For instance, an allergy to peanuts can be fatal - that doesn't mean people who use peanut oil are committing a crime even if that activity happens to kill someone (assuming it wasn't intentional). Also, may people are allergic to bee stings - that doesn't make beekeeping an offence - criminal or otherwise.
  
  I am truly sorry for your condition that sometimes inconveniences you but I have to say be glad that it's not worse. Try an allergy to wheat products - THAT is an inconvenience.
  
  No - second had drivers kill and maim many, MANY more people annually than smokers do. It's part of the price of modern life.
  
  Now, instead of linking to the fallacies - how about considering the actual question (remove the smoking bit if you can't handle the real question as is) rather than lecturing me about serious questions. No one who attempts such a ridiculous diversion has the slightest right to lecture on logic or to try and belittle anyone else. Answer the question or go back to the sandbox to play.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on June 2nd, 2011
- I'm not saying that it should be criminalized, by any means, which maybe I didn't make clear.But most of those things you mentioned AREN'T victimless, which is the point I'm trying to make. Your question carries a false assumption, which colors the responses you will get.
  
  People die for all kinds of reasons, many of which could be avoided if we spent our lives in hiding. I'm not complaining about people smoking, although it is annoying - I have a great life in a rich country, and the free time to shoot the breeze online.
  
  Just because an activity harms some people (such as myself) doesn't mean it should necessarily be illegal, fined, or otherwise legally punished. It's hard to get through life without hurting someone in some way.
  
  But neither should those activities be called victimless. I'm sorry if my response was a bit emotional, but it bothers me to see someone disregard or simplify that.
  
  So, to answer your actual question, disregarding the part I don't like: No. They should probably work out a prisoner transfer deal with one of the dozens of states that suffers from massive prisoner over-population.
  
  Report
  
  by RSman on June 2nd, 2011
Add a comment...
- Like
- Report
3 comments | Post one | Permalink
by Stepper on May 31st, 2011
Sounds to me like this would do far more to help the economies of neighboring states.

Nothing stings the face of a near-sighted Virginia lawmaker more than a smack from the hand of free market competition on the inter-state level.
Comments
- Ya lost me there. Care to elaborate a bit please?
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
- Sure.
  
  There is a demand for tobacco in the state of Virginia, not to mention for liquor, fatty foods, and other vices of a similar nature.
  
  The state the criminalizes things that its citizens demand (while other states have not done so) is encouraging its citizens to buy out of state (or perhaps even relocate to other states...taking their taxable income and job skills to competing markets).
  
  The day that Virginia criminalizes fatty foods (for example) will be a great day for the fatty foods industry in the states of North Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland and Tennessee. It would be like putting a tax dollar vacuum in each of these states to suck the revenue from the Virginia economy.
  
  It's amusing enough when policy makers get chastized for their bad decisions, but when their bad decisions come back to hit them in the pocketbook due entirely to the naturally magic power of the invisible hand of the free market, it becomes downright hilarious.
  
  Report
  
  by Stepper on May 31st, 2011
- OK. I agree.
  
  I was using this as an example.
  
  Actually, I think the US should free all people imprisoned for victimless crimes.
  
  Of course - that would mean the release of about 3/4 of all jailed birds.... and what would happed to the economy then?
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
Add a comment...
- Like
- Report
3 comments | Post one | Permalink
by Ghost-With-Fancy-Pants on May 31st, 2011
I thought beating the meat was free. Now they gonna tax it??......must.....not......fap......$10......damn
Comments
- I didn't suggest taxing. It's immoral according to the Bible, much like anal sex, which I believe already is illegal there. I suggested criminalizing it so wankers could be put in jail - hence creating jobs.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
- Masturbating is immoral?? Who in the hell am I hurting? Well never mind. What isn't immoral shit.
  
  Report
  
  by Ghost-With-Fancy-Pants on May 31st, 2011
- Masturbating is immoral?? Who in the hell am I hurting? Well never mind. What isn't immoral shit.
  
  Report
  
  by Ghost-With-Fancy-Pants on May 31st, 2011
- That's part of my point.
  
  Who is a pot smoke hurting?Yet 3/4 of American prison inmates are there for non-violent drug offenses. And the US imprisons more people than any other country on the planet.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
- Someone should work on a time machine so we can rewrite things.
  
  Report
  
  by Ghost-With-Fancy-Pants on May 31st, 2011
Add a comment...
- Like
- Report
5 comments | Post one | Permalink
by Kiku on May 31st, 2011
Why not rent it out to repressive foreign regimes for a nice out-sourced profit? You could supply the guards and services (catering etc.) as well, so the knock-on employment would be considerable.

The rate our government are throwing people in prison for such heinous crimes as "looking at the prime minister in a nasty way" (hard not to really), "reporting the news in an unbiased manner" (i.e. not biased towards the government) and most disgusting of all "enjoying yourself" (how dare we?), the available prison space here will soon be exhausted.

Rest assured, the prisoners we would send you represent no threat to either national or personal security as very few of them have actually commited any sort of crime.
Comments
- I don't live there.
  
  But I like your thinking. The US could rent market it's considerable experience in jailing people.
  
  Report
  
  by 23Skidoo on May 31st, 2011
Add a comment...
- Like
- Report
1 comment | Post one | Permalink

Question

Should Virginia criminalize tobacco smoking, masturbation or some other victimless, private activity to boost its economy?

Answers. 7 helpful answers below.

Asker's Pick

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

Did this answer your question? If not, then ask a new question or create a poll.

More Questions. Additional questions in this category.

Follow us on Facebook!

Related Ads

Related Questions

When was the first Thanksgiving feast in Virginia?

I have a new Boost Mobile Motorola i425t cell phone. On charging, display reads "Charger Attached," never "Charged in Full" even after several hours. The battery level indicator appears full and the phone works well. Should I see some charging activity?

Should there be further restrictions on the advertising, selling, and smoking of tobacco? Should it be banned?

Russia is going to sell 250 million dollars worth of Surface-to-air missiles, to Libya, Syria and Venezuela, Egypt, Myanmar, Vietnam and Turkmenistan. Do you think this will boost their Economy? Should the US do the same?

Should deaths attributed to tobacco-use be labelled "suicides"? People KNOW very well the cause-and-effect regarding smoking, and do it anyway...

Professionally Researched

When was the first Thanksgiving feast in Virginia?

How is reckless driving in Virginia classified in the Virginia law?

What should I take to a christmas pizza party?

How much should you tip at the holidays?

How big should children\'s shoes be bought?

ANSWERBAG BUZZ

Answerbag.com
Your favorite Q&A site is on Facebook! Become a fan to connect with the ever-growing community of Answerbaggers, share your thoughts and find out what Answerbag's up to next!

Question

Should Virginia criminalize tobacco smoking, masturbation or some other victimless, private activity to boost its economy?

Answers. 7 helpful answers below.

Asker's Pick

Asker's Pick

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

Comments

Did this answer your question? If not, then ask a new question or create a poll.

More Questions. Additional questions in this category.

Follow us on Facebook!

Related Ads

Related Questions

Professionally Researched

ANSWERBAG BUZZ

Answerbag.com Your favorite Q&A site is on Facebook! Become a fan to connect with the ever-growing community of Answerbaggers, share your thoughts and find out what Answerbag's up to next!

Answerbag.com
Your favorite Q&A site is on Facebook! Become a fan to connect with the ever-growing community of Answerbaggers, share your thoughts and find out what Answerbag's up to next!