by Strength on February 11th, 2010

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Why do many folks take things from the OT, like God saying something to the Jews and apply it to their lives now?

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by autumn leaves on February 15th, 2010
1corinthians 10:11 says: "now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of this system of things have arrived." we can learn much about the history of the nation of israel and how Jehovah God dealt with them. God had told them they would receive many blessings if they obeyed his commandments and stayed away from the practices of the pagan nations surrounding them. (deuteronomy 28:1-14) they were also warned about the consequences they would suffer if they ignored his warning and turned from worshipping him, because of them mixing with the nations that hated Jehovah and his laws, as well as his nation. the hebrew scriptures (ot)have much to teach true christians as to how to learn to be loyal and faithful to Jehovah God. we live in a most ungodly world, and even those that claim a christian religion have not a clue as to what true loyalty is. the hebrew scriptures give many examples of keeping integrity to Jehovah at great expense to them. for this reason the greek scriptures says this of these ancient serveants in hebrews 12:1: "so, then, because we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off every weight and the sin that easlily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us," in chapter 11 of the letter to the hebrews thre apostle paul mentions by name the many personalities found in the hebrew scriptures, (ot). they were truly admirable individuals who a christian should strive to imitate. aside from Jesus Christ being the true christian's role model, these serveants of the true God are most deserving of respect. there is so much to learn from the hebrew scriptures, unlike some might think it is just dead history. for more information go to www.watchtower.org
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- Thanks Autumn. I will look in this in more detail when I get back home.
  Funny, I am meant to be enjoying my holiday and well, I am but all I can think about is God and want to get home to continue proper bible reading and seeking God... hehe!
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  by Strength on February 15th, 2010
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by The Anonymous Witch on February 11th, 2010
because they are still uneducated , fooled and brainwashed . and the NT tells you to not discount ANY scripture.
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- That was nice of you.. lol
  Yeah, it does say that but it's not discounting any scripture it's just seeing things in the correct way.
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  by Strength on February 11th, 2010
- if they saw thigs in the correct way ,,, they would not read either book. ;-)
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  by The Anonymous Witch on February 12th, 2010
- hehe, you may have a point...
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  by Strength on February 12th, 2010
- lol....it also says you can't understand the Old without the New....you are the uneducated ,fooled and brainwashed in Knowledge of God......to understand the Old and the Prophecies you can in no way have without the New and the prophecies Fullfilled....the Bible is the Alpha(Genesis means Beginning) and the Omega(Revelation is the END) the Beginning and the End ...the WORD and the Lord HIMSELF...:)
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  by thatsJustme on March 8th, 2010
- exactly what a brainwashed socialy programed victim would say .
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  by The Anonymous Witch on March 8th, 2010
- Just me, who are you? Honestly I feel like I know you from somewhere.. ;-)
  And yes, you are correct again.
  Nope, anonymous Witch, not brainwashed but in the truth.
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  by Strength on March 9th, 2010
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by bagicide stayed 10 months too long on February 11th, 2010
Galations 3: 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Read that carefully. I don't have the power to highlight it. It says we are ALL Abraham's seed through Christ. That is, we are all adopted Jews.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says:

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Does this refer to the New Testament? Of course not, the New Testament wasn't written yet. This is from one of Paul's letters and Paul's letters are the oldest part of the New Testament. None of the Gospel's were yet written when this letter was written. The only scripture that existed at this time was the Old Testament.

And then there is Matthew 5:17, where Jesus Christ, himself, says: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

So if we are adopted heirs and sons of Abraham (whether male or female) and have the rights and inheritance of a son of Abraham (which by Jewish law, everything goes to the sons), and Christ himself says that he did not come to eliminate the law, so it is still in effect, why do you think we apply the Old Testament to our lives? Because gratitude to God should flow out of our salvation. And gratitude is shown by obedience.
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- What you say is true.
  I am not talking about these things as such.
  
  Many people take things from the OT when it was nothing to do with them.. example..
  When god gave people creative gifts to make the tabernacle , someone takes that and makes it that God will give them creative gifts through his holy spirit just like he did with the tabernacle to help them make curtains, gold , silver etc.
  Who says God will do that just because he did it then with the Israelites?
  
  They would never take things from the OT like,
  '..get drunk and vomit' and say god was telling them to do this.(although many christians do get drunk!)
  but that ain't my point
  
  I'm crap at explaining things but it's all in my head what I want to say. So frustrating.
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  by Strength on February 11th, 2010
- Are you talking about passages that were about one specific person, and not meant for all people for all time? Like telling Hosea to go and take an adulterous wife to show the Israelites a flesh and blood example of how He loved them and what His plan of salvation was, but that was meant only for Hosea in that time and place?
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  by bagicide stayed 10 months too long on February 11th, 2010
- Yes and also other times when he was talking to a whole group of people too.
  Just that people look at some things and want to pick out something in it and apply it to now when really it was for another group or person and in another time or situation.
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  by Strength on February 11th, 2010
- There is some of that in the Bible, but be very careful about assuming that. There is much in the Bible where God is speaking to a specific time and place, but He means for us to extrapolate some message that is meant for all time. That is why you need to pray and ask the Holy Spirit for help when you read.
  
  Here is an example. Paul sets forth very specific requirement for dress for women, which some churches still take very literally. We are not to wear pearls and jewelry. We are not to wear men's clothing. We are to keep our heads covered. Above all, we are to be always and at all times modest. The Pentecostals, Amish and Mennonites, to name a few, take this very seriously and very literally. There were Mennonite women in the 40's who were excommunicated for wearing men's pants to help with an exceptionally difficult wheat harvest. But even among those groups, the way they follow those rules looks very different. So clearly even they have some difficulty with what that actually looks like, because the dress of a Pentecostal woman and the dress of an Amish woman looks very different.
  
  So you need to go back to the scripture and pray about it. You need to look at ancillary writings that go back to the early church as well. And you probably need to interpret this with a little latitude, as this isn't one of the central beliefs as contained in the Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian creeds.
  
  Here is my take on it, and please note well that it is my take and not a theologians take on it. More than a few churches have split over this doctrine, but I think Christ himself would say that this isn't as important as accepting that He was born of a virgin, God and man incarnate, crucified, died and resurrected for the propitiation of the sins of all. This is a fairly minor thing. So we are on the same page?
  
  Paul was taking the Gospel into new lands where the God of Israel had never been worshiped and in some cases, wasn't even known. The sacking of Israel by Babylon, and the captivity of the Israelites had spread the knowledge of God and the synagogue system, but there were still people all over the known world who had never encountered God, and Paul didn't want their first contact to be from someone whose behavior offended them. So his message was basically, "when in Rome, so far as it doesn't offend God, do as the Romans do." He wanted his ministers and bishops to be inoffensive to the people they were preaching to. And so he set standards of behavior and dress that would be inoffensive in those places. Does that mean he meant to tolerate and ignore their sin? Of course not. He meant to be inoffensive as possible while dealing with their sin. So the basic message here is: be modest and inoffensive so that the people you preach to and teach will be listening to the Gospel, not looking at your clothes and tsk, tsking.
  
  In the ensuing centuries, standards of dress have changed. Does that mean we are to go about in burqas? Well, if we are teaching in Afghanistan, it probably does. If we wore anything else, our hearers would be staring at our clothes and our bare skin instead of listening. But if we are in America, it means wearing what is modest and feminine in America. That could be a pant suit. That could be a knee length skirt and a button up blouse. That could even be jeans and a t-shirt. So long as your means of dress is not going to make a man's eyes travel where they shouldn't (so that he doesn't hear what you are saying), and it isn't likely to make someone think you are trying to be a man, my belief is that you are within the intent of that passage.
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  by bagicide stayed 10 months too long on March 8th, 2010
- I think you are right to say this, Blessed.
  I'm not sure I would accept that He is God and man incarnate but the rest I can agree with.
  Thank you.
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  by Strength on March 10th, 2010
- If He is not both fully God and fully man, then He is nothing. That is an ancient heresy that was dealt with in the early days of the church. If He is not fully man, then He did not suffer the same temptations we did, and His sacrifice means nothing. If He is not fully God, then He does not have the power to forgive our sin and His sacrifice means nothing. Either way, it pulls the nails right out of His hands and feet and pulls Him down off the cross, leaving us still mired in our sins. http://www.exchangedlife.com/Sermons/topical/trinity/heresies1.shtml
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  by bagicide stayed 10 months too long on March 10th, 2010
- 'If he is not fully God, then He does not have the power to forgive our sins and His sacrifice means nothing'- not exactly, his sacrifice still stands the same. The Father can forgive our sins through Jesus Christ. Thanks for the link. :)
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  by Strength on March 11th, 2010
- My pleasure.
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  by bagicide stayed 10 months too long on March 11th, 2010
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by curiousgeorge101 on March 11th, 2010
After reading the bible you can find that the Hebrew/ Jewish people are chosen to be the nation of priests. They are to teach us about God. It is all there is black and white. Bible gateway. com can help just type in nation of priests and it will bring up what I am talking about. Yahweh bless!

So we know the Jewish community celebrates Sabbath on Saturday so it is really on saturday. We know they do not eat any of the unclean animals written in the OT so we are not to also. As it is written in the NT God is Holy so we are to be Holy. YAIY>ORG has all the answers to every question. Also we are to clelbrate all of the Holydays not holidays.
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- Thanks cgeorge.
  The OT is telling the Hebrews not to eat any unclean animal, not us.
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by thatsJustme on March 8th, 2010
because you would not believe the things of God in CIVILIZING Israel/ Israelites that still apply today, in all societies....like, debtors forgiving debts after '7yrs.' thats still here today......
like, pay your debts and owe no one
like, never allow yourself to be sued, settle out of court...its shameful
like, do not sue
like, respect your parents
like , rear up your children KNOWING the Lord, orally and written.....
and on and on and on, etc.....you would be surprised to realize what RIGHT WAYS are still applied or based on the OLD TESTAMENT.....
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- Thanks. You're right.
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  by Strength on March 9th, 2010
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by Moongrim on February 12th, 2010
The phrase you're looking for is: Cafeteria Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafeteria_Christianity

It's not so much their own life they apply such to, it's more of applying such to everyone else.

For instance- the supposed injunction against homosexuality is quite a bit vague, and yet they wish to impose such upon- everyone else.

Yet the bible also states QUITE CLEARLY that eating Shellfish IS an Abomination (no mincing of words), and yet you don't see any church folks denouncing Red Lobster restaurants.

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/
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- THANK YOU Moongrim!!
  I was finding it hard to say what I meant but this is exactly it.
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by Ringo on February 11th, 2010
Since murder and perjury are illegal in every state, I'd say that Exodus 20 still holds quite a bit of sway in everyone's lives. Even though that is part of the Old Testament. Just saying.
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- A pity we can't say the same for sexual crimes eh?
  
  http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals
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  by Moongrim on February 12th, 2010
- How do you get that, Moon? The cite you give shows that sex crimes, which were crimes in the Old Testament, still apply today. It doesn't matter if a Republican or Democrat or whoever commits them.
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  by Ringo on February 12th, 2010
- I agree on the political party application.
  
  But there are many cultures who have crimes against sexual behaviors, who have never heard of the Bible, and predate the Jews.
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  by Moongrim on February 13th, 2010
- Couldn't agre with your more.
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  by Ringo on February 14th, 2010
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by thatsJustme on February 11th, 2010
strength, i thought you knew the Plan better....you don't think the lessons learned ,the good and bad , don't apply now...? and the enire book Old and New is the lineage of the Messiah....
it all goes together....the Alpha (Genesis, where the 'seed' began) to Revelation(where the 'seed' was Fullilled.......
lets just say many old folks have Knowledge of God and HIS BOOK and understand more...but at some point they asked the same as you do now..:)

Jews were told not to ever charge interest...do you think HE meant that just for them? no, HE did not....
Jews were destroyed when they disobeyed, even priests, do you think that does not apply today ,that HE is not going to do the same..?
Do you not understand that even David was forgiven when HE asked for murdering and committing adultery...and on and on and on....these apply..
there are things that would fall into place , you will understand , once you really want to strength, but not until...i went 15 years not understanding...and i really prayed for a long time to help me..and it did...it was a miracle to me...it all started clicking....but you gotta want to understand....and don't give up.....the best
and dont discount any scripture...every verse has a REASON...every verse..old and new....
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- Ok, thank you for your answer. :)
  
  That is why I ask so many questions. I want to understand. I read the bible but don't understand it.
  I talk to JWs , Baptists, Pentecostals, Athiests, Agnostics..
  I can't seem to find really what the true answers are in life.
  I've asked God to help me understand scripture but I still don't understand.
  I'm not a christian but do you know, out of everyone i've talked to, I find the JWs way of interpreting scripture to make most sense.
  Not sure that is a good thing though.
  
  You don't need to hear all this anyway ;-)
  Cya around.
  You never answered my email btw :-/ I guess last names aren't very important though, lol.
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  by Strength on February 11th, 2010
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by Artful Bodger on February 11th, 2010
Because many folks are not strong enoughto take responsibility for their own lives, decisions, attitudes and moral values and must resort to ancient fairy tales to guide them and provide a universal scapegoat. Priests and "prophets" take advantage of this by appointing themselves as intermediaries between man and his myths and so puppeteering great slabs of the populace.
In my religion, I am God. I may do good or evil, but must bear all the consequences of my actions. I may build or destroy, bring about happiness or misery, live healthy and long or die as I choose. My life is my own, as are my responsibilities, my achievements, my failiures. I blame no one else for my shortcomings, and am grateful to those who aid me, befriend me and teach me - but I alone steer the course of my life. And like it or not, you too are God, and should not live as a puppet.
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Why do many folks take things from the OT, like God saying something to the Jews and apply it to their lives now?

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Whenever Christians ask me about religion (I'm atheist), I explain my reasons for being atheist, and one of many is the OT is full of scientific lies and cruelties. And then they defend it by saying "Jesus fixed it" in the NT. Is the OT useless?

Many scripture say we're "created in God's image" & clergy often explain our failings by saying something like "spiritually only". If instead we understood that God can make mistakes & have failings too,would this make any difference to our "knowing" God?

Do folks imagine that Heaven is going to be like now, but without any problems? Would we even be human if we didn't face hardships/pains and so forth, the very things which define us and give us a sense of self and importance in so many cases?

If God's punishment to Eden's snake was that it shall crawl on it's belly for the rest of it's days, is this the Bible then saying that snakes used to have limbs or wings before that snake messed things up for the rest of them?

Could the OT be summed up in a catchy tune like "hey hey, Jews Jews, I don't like the Canaanites. No way, no way, I wanna see some

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