MORMONS True or False: "If a man is ordained in the Melchizedek priesthood, he is called of God to that office and must be heeded." And please explain your answer.

Comments

• And I see that you're stilling shuckin' and jivin', deflectin', misdirectin' and spewin' Mormon dogma as if the very universe rotates around it.
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  So is the answer, "True" or "False"?
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

• FALSE! As your question reads. We only need to follow our leaders if they are teaching and leading us according to the standards set forth by the Lord through our Prophets...Later

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  by whew4 on December 11th, 2009

• Thank you for FINALLY just answering the question! Much appreciated.

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on March 11th, 2010

Comments

• Thank you for your answer. +6
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  But I'm unsure if that's a "True" or a "False" on the question being posed.
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  Could you clarify?
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  And are you Mormon?

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

• My family was Mormon, and I was raised in the church. I left a few years after leaving home.
  
  It's a false in answer to the question posed, since the question is flawed.

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  by Yarnlady is happy every day on December 9th, 2009

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  Thank you for clarifying. Actually I got the exact wording for the question from a former member so I'm finding the negative reactions to the wording of the question both puzzling and intriguing.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

• Perhaps a former member isn't the one most qualified to discuss the acutal beliefs and interpretations of the church. S/he would most likely be biased.

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  by Yarnlady is happy every day on December 9th, 2009

• .
  Or expert in this case.
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  I'm deliberately with holding the name but she's well known in Mormon Studies circles.
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  And she is neither angry or bitter.
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  In fact, Cult Experts like Steven Hassan, Luna Fletcher and Rick Ross have stated repeatedly that former members - like yourself - are the BEST, most reliable source for information on their former groups.
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  Anger and bitterness is easily recognized and even more easier to filter out.
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  I value the perspective of former members of the Evangelical Church and Atheists who have exited Christianity - it's always enlightening.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

• Still, when the "calling" which comes first, is reversed with the ordination, you have to wonder if there is hidden agenda.

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  by Yarnlady is happy every day on December 9th, 2009

• .
  I disagree. She got it right because she used the term "called of God" which explicitly points to divine oversight and authority.
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  And the word "ordination" matches the original LdS Church verbiage - which uses the word for BOTH the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood offices:
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  "Ordination to an office in the Aaronic Priesthood is done by or under the direction of the bishop or branch president. Ordination to an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood is done by or under the direction of the stake or mission president."
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=2ca59207f7c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
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  I will also tell you that she researches far more extensively than the typical Mormon Scholar - which is why her work is so respected.
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  And I can't take umbrage on her wording and I've been studying Mormonism for 30+ so I'm very puzzled as to the strong reactions to it.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

• So, are you arguing that this person has no agenda? I simply do not buy that. You have misunderstood what I am saying about your questions. The "calling by God" comes before the Ordination, not after it. Your question says they are ordained first and this is simply not true.

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  by Yarnlady is happy every day on December 9th, 2009

• >Your question says they are ordained first and this is simply not true<
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  That's simply incorrect. That's not what the question says.
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  Logically someone must be divinely and sovereignly "called of God" before they receive Priesthood Ordinances or they wouldn't be standing there to begin with.
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  The calling and ordination by earthly Church Authorities is merely a formal validation of the purpose for that life that has already been determined by God.
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  That's good LdS Theology and doctrine nothing more.
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  Anyhow this straining at minutiae is growing weary . . .

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

• In LdS parlance, we confer the Priesthood (either Aaronic or Melchizidek) then ordain them to a specific office within that Priesthood. Finally, a person may be "set apart" (given a calling; not always tied to the Priesthood). As an example, my dad conferred the Aaronic Priesthood upon me and ordained me to the office of deacon. Years later he ordained me to the office of priest within that same Priesthood. While a priest, I was set apart as the ward choir president (having the Priesthood has nothing to do with that calling; the President before me was a lady). Also, from the time I was ordained a priest, I have been assigned as a "Home Teacher" for at least a couple of families.

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  by laie_techie on December 9th, 2009

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  Thanks for your input Laie - much appreciated as always!
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

Comments

Comments

• So can we take that as a "False"? If so you might want to edit your answer to start that way so there's no confusion on your stance.
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  Thank you for your answer. +6
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  And if you have any scripture to support your stance that would probably be helpful as well.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 7th, 2009

Comments

• Thank you for your answer. +6

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

Comments

• Thank you for your articulate and thoughtful answer. +6

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

• Out of curiosity, is that quote in your question pulled from a church source?

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  by East Hill on December 9th, 2009

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  No. From a former member who was told this while she was a Mormon.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

• With all due respect, I think you need to be careful composing a question with a quote from a former member who was told this--who knows how many years ago--by an unknown source. It's misleading. I've read enough of your answers to know that you expect people to back up their claims with a verifiable source. To a person unfamiliar with the LDS church, one might assume this was a quote spoken by an authority of the church, which in this case, it clearly was not. Just my two cents.

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  by East Hill on December 9th, 2009

• >To a person unfamiliar with the LDS church, one might assume this was a quote spoken by an authority of the church<
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  I apologize if it came across that way. The link was simply there to define the official Church stance on the Melchizedek Priesthood for the readers.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 9th, 2009

Comments

• How does that answer the question?
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  Let's try again:
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  True or False: "If a man is ordained in the Melchizedek priesthood, he is called of God to that office and must be heeded."
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  Please start you answer with either "True" or "False" then support your answer with an explanation.
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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on December 7th, 2009

Comments

Comments

• As usual an ad-hominem laden answer from Rockie. You just can't resist can you? You just can't just answer the question can you? You just HAVE to attack don't you?
  
  Amazing.
  
  >Your questions are biased and worded in such a way as to put the LDS Church in a bad light<
  
  They're just questions Rockie - and BTW, a lot of them are from sources WITHIN the LdS Church.
  
  So I'm sorry it upsets you that a source outside the LdS Church would dare to echo the very same provocative questions that faithful, practicing Mormons are very correctly and appropriately asking.
  
  And as the Mormons that I respect often remind me: The best - and RESPECTFUL - to present your arguments are with evidence and facts.
  
  And those same Mormons often remind me that ad-hominems merely demonstrate what little evidence and facts you actually have to back up your arguments.
  
  They tell me that it's a school yard tactic that doesn't work very well in the adult world.
  
  I would recommend that you consider the wisdom of your fellow members and cease and desist with your endless stream of ad-hominems. It had played about 100 posts ago and now it's REALLY played.
  
  I know that I would appreciate it and I'm sure that your Mormon peers would too since you make yourself and your organization look childish whenever you launch into ad-hominems.
  
  Thanks.

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on March 11th, 2010

• However, I do thank you for the first paragraph of your answer. Thank you.

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on March 11th, 2010

• Don't think you were the only one offended in this situation. I find many of your questions and comments offensive, as well as your condescending attitude towards me. I also find it offensive when you tell me that your interpretation of the Bible is the correct interpretation "Period", as you have done in the past. By citing you have produced reams of evidence against the LDS Church, and that we should take your word as to its credibility is equally offensive. I find this offensive that you think you are free of any offenses in this situation.

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  by Rockie on March 12th, 2010

• Why is it that you feel I should protect the integrity of the LDS Church, when it is your intention, as you have done in the past, to tear it down and attempt to destroy the integrity and credibility of the LDS Church, its leaders, and its members?

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  by Rockie on March 12th, 2010

• Let me put it another way Rockie. If you can't reel in your need to launch in to ad-hominems in your answers perhaps you would be doing yourself and the LdS Church a favor by not answering at all.
  
  Other Mormons on AB have managed to do this so and the other Mormons that I dialog with regularly with have as well - so it's odd that you can't constraint your need to attack any messenger whose message you don't like.
  
  Perhaps you should let Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost work on you a bit more until you can engage in civil dialog without getting your hair trigger tripped.
  
  Run it by your Bishop and Priesthood Quorum . . . see what they think.

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on March 12th, 2010

• I would like to call attention to the fact that Rockie said Jesus Christ is still the head of the church. It's the Lord who decides what should be done. Only someone hearkening to the Lord has any authority at all.

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  by Bridget_D8547 on March 3rd, 2011

• Agreed.
  
  Unfortunately many Mormons, like Rockie, have decided that it's their calling in life in regard to those that they perceive (rightly or wrong) as an enemy to ignore Christ's commandment to . . .
  
  Matthew 5:44
  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
  
  Luke 6:27
  But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
  
  Luke 6:35
  But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
  
  And the irony here, of course, is that I'm not any more an enemy of the Mormon Church than you are Bridget. Hoping for reform and TRUE restoration to the pure, original, Biblically orthodox Mormonism hardly makes one an "enemy" of the LdS Church does it?
  
  However, you sure wouldn't know it from the way that we get treated by "God's little helpers" would you?
  
  ;-)

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on March 3rd, 2011

• Acually, my bishoop and priesthood quorum couldn't care less. Are you trying to give me some sort of guilt trip? Whatever! What does Jesus think of you about rejecting those who have the true authority on Earth? That hs the true concern. Never in the history of the Earth has God ever given the truth to those who reject his servants the Prophets. Please prove to me otherwise in the Bible where God has accepted those who rejected his Prophets.
  
  This reminds me of the story of the two men with the moat and the beam. Clean your own house before you try cleaning the houses of others.
  
  Why does expressing my opinion mean that I hate my enemies? I am just being honest and expressing my opinion. Mr. IT uses this web site to push his anti-mormon sentiment. Why is it that he feels he is such an expert on the LDS Church and what they believe? I have been a member of the LDS Church all of my life. I know and understand the LDS Church. What is that makes Mr. IT think that I don't have communication with the Holy Ghost? Maybe the Holy Ghost is talking to me and telling me to tell Mr. IT that he is wrong and that he needs to quit spending so much time trying to find fault with the LDS Church and its members. You come onto this web site and spill out your anti-mormon antics, putting us on the defensive, and wonder why we get upset. Come on! Face reality and the real source of the problem. Most other mormons are polite and take it. I don't profess to be polite and will express my opinion as to what I think. I am just being honest. If you think that is hating my enemies, then you really have a problem.

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  by Rockie on April 17th, 2011

• Yet another string of nothing but ad-hominems, insults, slurs and other forms of personal attacks.
  
  Well least you're consistent Rockie.
  
  And thank AGAIN you for showing a world wide audience what's really inside the heart of many True Believing Mormons.
  
  Luke 6:45 (Joseph Smith Translation)
  "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart, bringeth forth that which is good. And an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart, bringeth forth that which is evil; for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."
  
  And I will leave you with this thought from a British Mormon Studies Scholar:
  
  "As long as people want the Mormon Church to be true, more than they are willing to face the possibility that it is not, they will not entertain evidence or reason.
  
  Delusion becomes a choice."
  -- Jim Whitefield
  
  And don't bother replying mate - I know enough by now to just put you on mute from the onset and not waste any time trying to reason with you.

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  by Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here on April 17th, 2011