Are you pro war for what you believe are the right reasons ... yet you oppose capital punishment?

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• I agree, Sharona! What gives? :)

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  by Baggins on November 22nd, 2009

• I ask as
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  Some are pro war, yet they oppose capital punishment (as do many here in Australia)
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  They are happy to retaliate with death by war to revenge an affliction against the people ... yet those some who approve of death by war will oppose the killing of a murderer.
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  Thanks +

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  by Universe Of Life on November 22nd, 2009

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• Good answer but, war has given you that right to think that way...sad testament to the human race, but necessary from time to time.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• Understandable. Ha ha...its sad though that things have to be solved with violence. Or at least I think its sad, to watch innocent people being killed. And capital punishment is it right to do the same thing the person being charged did? I don't think so. But..hey. I actually read an article that it was cheaper to keep a person alive in prison than it is to kill them. Scary.

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  by PrincessErin1986 on November 22nd, 2009

• Many thanks +

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  by Universe Of Life on November 22nd, 2009

• I am also against both. Where has either one got us? Simplistic, I know, but there it is.

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  by Kat on November 27th, 2009

• The fact remains Kat, is that we can't change human nature but what we can do is eliminate the threat. Individuals or groups who murder or declare wars understand, that sacrifices will be made up to including their lives by their own choice.

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  by deltabtry on November 27th, 2009

• Thanks deltabtry. I found a quote years ago, which resonated very deeply with me. By Dr. Norman Bethune (1939): ""Is it possible that a few rich men — a small class of men — have persuaded a million poor men to attack and attempt to destroy another million men as poor as they, so that the rich may be richer still? They told them that this brutal war was the destiny of the race. It was for the glory of the emperor; it was for the honour of the state; it was for their king and country. False – false as hell! They make war to capture markets by murder, raw materials by rape. They find it cheaper to steal than to exchange, easier to butcher than to buy. This is the secret of war. It is the secret of all wars: profit. Business. Profit. Blood money. Threaten a reduction on the profit of their money, and the beast in them awakens with a snarl. They become as ruthless as savages, brutal as madmen, remorseless as executioners.""

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  by Kat on November 27th, 2009

• ""Henry Norman Bethune (March 3, 1890 – November 12, 1939; was a Canadian physician and medical innovator. Bethune is best known for his service in war time medical units during the Spanish Civil War and with the Chinese Communists during the Second Sino-Japanese War. He developed the first mobile blood-transfusion service in Spain in 1936.""

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  by Kat on November 27th, 2009

• I agree, but today it is those who are illiterate mainly in the middle east considering up to 60 percent can not read or are unaware the going ons around the world. That said, this is why we are engage in a war against extremist.
  Hitler once said,"give me a child of 5 and I will raise him to follow me to the end". ad libbed.
  
  The rich rule classes because the classes can not rule themselves. This will be with us for some time, the human race isn't ready to rule for themselves. Anarchy will reign and as a people we have known this ever since mankind began. The human race hasn't climbed the latter of evolution far enough to achieve this goal.

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  by deltabtry on November 27th, 2009

• I agree with you. And that it is true that with power and wealth, corruption and immorality always follow. You see that even with people who had humble beginnings -- if they obtain fame or fortune of some kind, 99% lose their integrity. You are right that we have not evolved to the point where we consider "the whole" before ourselves. History shows us a handful of people who, with power, maintained high values and morality.

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  by Kat on November 28th, 2009

• I am going to have to agree with the quote you wrote Kat. That is all war is in my mind a poor man fighting a rich mans war. I guess that question I have I don't know if particularly pertaining, but who are we as United States citizens to tell people in Iraq how to rule their country. They are not the United States. So I guess for me of watching and listening for seven or so years, it just seems to me that Bush (not knocking him by any means) has said he wants to make them a democracy. But how is it his right or our rights to choose that for other people? And it is true once people do gain that fame/fortune and such do lose a lot of their values and integrity. I guess I am just a passivist who believes there are other ways to solve problems then violence.

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  by PrincessErin1986 on November 28th, 2009

• I agree wholeheartedly PrincessErin. We think we are a democracy and we think we have rights, but in reality, we are puppets on a string. There is no watchdog for those in power, except maybe the media and the opposition. But they, too, can be bought. The people at the top manoeuvre themselves and they and their cronies control whatever happens in the world. But unfortunately, any benefits or spoils (though the death of thousands of innocent people can hardly be called beneficial) do not filter down to the whole; they remain in the pockets of those at the top. That's how this recent recession happened -- manipulation by the administration and top business in the United States. How they are not held accountable and forced to pay back the zillions they made, is another mystery. And the same in other countries, when it happens. What astounds me and the question I ask is how did we get so clever and educated and civilised and think we know everything, and yet we have no power at all?

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  by Kat on November 28th, 2009

• No clue. That is something that cracks me up. Everybody is I hate Obama blah blah blah. Do they not realize he lacks the power to do a lot of things. The people who are voting on these reforms and health care issues and such are the legislatures they voted in, not Obama he only proposes the plan. But hey I guess we as the people enabled some of these things.

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  by PrincessErin1986 on November 28th, 2009

• I don't know if we enabled anything. Politics has been so corrupt and greedy and manipulated for the benefit of a few, ever since it was invented many thousands of years ago. It sounds defeatest but I really think we have no say at all. "They" pull the wool over our eyes and put out the message that we have a democracy and have a say but what happens in reality is completely different. It's a sham.

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  by Kat on November 29th, 2009

• Kat we do have a say, and in this country we do have the power, it is we are just lazy and complacent. We have become comfortable with whining about the powers at be and not doing anything about it. The people are the bosses and the sooner we act like it, the more the politicians will answer to us.

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  by deltabtry on November 29th, 2009

• It's comforting to hear that. I suppose it is really only disaster or emergency that propels one to action.

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  by Kat on November 29th, 2009

• as always Kat..again that's human nature.

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  by deltabtry on November 29th, 2009

Comments

• enjoy your freedom while you still have it and hope that you will not die on your knees.
  Although thank a vet for giving you the security you enjoy, you have that right and the right to think as you wish.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• Ditto!

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  by Baggins on November 22nd, 2009

• Thank you +

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  by Universe Of Life on November 22nd, 2009

• You do realize that if no country had a military, national security would not be necessary for survival?

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  by Siyanor on November 22nd, 2009

• Ohhh, please! You don't really believe that, do you? Well, sianara, then!

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  by Baggins on November 22nd, 2009

• I do believe that.
  
  And what the hell does sianara mean? That's not even a word.

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  by Siyanor on November 22nd, 2009

• Do you believe that any individual can walk up to you and cut your throat and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. The only thing that stops people like this is the thin blue line, the law, the military. People like yourself would be considered easy prey for the predator and they are out there. Non the less enjoy your freedom because the law, the military will ensure your security, even to ingrates.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• Law =/= military. You have no valid argument.

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  by Siyanor on November 22nd, 2009

• There is nothing to argue, you either have security or you don't. History is on my side, societies such as you promote have fallen time after time at the point of a spear ie: Tibet.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• ..Delta, are you assuming that I think law enforcement is a part of national security? Because I definitely do NOT think that, and I am definitely NOT opposed to law enforcement.

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  by Siyanor on November 22nd, 2009

• sianara/Sayonara is Japanese/Asian for goodbye, Mr. intellectual...you should know that.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• I do know that sayonara is Japanese for goodbye. I also know that sianara doesn't mean anything, and Asian isn't a language.

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  by Siyanor on November 22nd, 2009

• Law enforcement, the military and the law all have a part to play in our security. It's not the people military who are aggressive but those who we elect and give the orders to the military. Some may not agree on what we do or why based on information according to their agenda. I am not a intellectual but, I have seen the worst of worst that humans can do, that said, I have also seen the best. It will always be peace through strength, the default setting for this planet before and currently is murder and mayhem. This is why we have to guarfd our gates and from time to time have to venture beyond.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• Well you get the idea.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• Delta, nothing you said has any bearing on the argument at hand. Obviously law enforcement and the military play a part in security. But they are not the same TYPE of security. Law enforcement is domestic security, something I do want. Military is national security, something that would be unnecessary if militaries didn't exist.

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  by Siyanor on November 22nd, 2009

• I don't advocate violence, war and i wouldn't wish it upon anyone, now if the same can be said about our enemies then all is good. That said, if they are spoiling for a fight I will stand and fight.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• I agree but, if militaries didn't exist we would have chaos and anarchy. The human race hasn't evolved far enough up the latter of evolution to achieve the goal you seek.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• Prove that chaos and anarchy would ensue from a lack of militaries.

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  by Siyanor on November 22nd, 2009

• Again you have to change basic human behavior. Non the less I am sure your a alright guy, all we ask if and when the time comes that you stand aside and allow us to do what we do best, give you the security you enjoy. We ask for nothing in return...good nite.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• Non sequitur, straw man, red herring, and slippery slope. Please take a class in basic argumentation.

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  by Siyanor on November 22nd, 2009

• real quick, a small example for proof, American History before the white man arrived.

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• This isn't a formal debate club and the lag time between responses makes it difficult. You get the idea what is being said here. So please spare me the complaints..

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  by deltabtry on November 22nd, 2009

• Delta, you must have failed American History if you believe militaries did not exist before the white man arrived.
  
  And no, I have absolutely no idea what is being said here, because all your comments are filled with logical fallacies or simple falsities.

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  by Siyanor on November 23rd, 2009

• You idea of a military and mine are different, the American indian had warriors, war parties etc., they did not as a rule have a standing army. Non the less warriors etc. in America and around the world proves my point. Civilizations have always needed armies, militaries, warriors etc. so that they wouldn't be anarchy. So sight me some examples that proves your point and falsities, state your complaint.

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  by deltabtry on November 23rd, 2009

• "You idea of a military and mine are different"
  
  If we have differing operational definitions of military, no argumentation is valid.
  
  Also, another American History fail: Native Americans did have standing armies. There were groups whose job was to fight other tribes. That's called an army.

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  by Siyanor on November 23rd, 2009

• Oh, also, what makes you think there was any chaos or anarchy among Native Americans? There was never anarchy, and the only chaos that did exist stemmed from the military, not was prevented by it.

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  by Siyanor on November 23rd, 2009

• The men of the tribes the ones young enough to fight where called warriors and that wasn't their only duty. Standing armies are dedicated to training for war and fighting wars, this was their only duty. We are splitting hairs here, we will just have to agree to disagree.

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  by deltabtry on November 23rd, 2009

• If there was never anarchy or the threat of, then people would have no reason to build a military.

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  by deltabtry on November 23rd, 2009

• I don't want to agree to disagree. I want to prove to you that you're completely wrong.
  
  Also, complete and utter non sequitur. Military cannot possibly be the only prevention to anarchy, nor can it prevent only anarchy.

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  by Siyanor on November 24th, 2009

Comments

• Consider being Pro-Love. Love your neighbor as yourself. And do unto others before they do unto you. <jk>

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  by Eclipse sleeping by moonlight on November 23rd, 2009

• I got Pro-Love written all over me...Do you want to see my new tattoo? Its a moon on the inside of my thigh:):)LOL:)

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  by TjoeBaxter is Hot Yo on November 23rd, 2009

• A close inspection of the artwork might be appropriate.

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  by Eclipse sleeping by moonlight on December 1st, 2009

• Anything for you Sherlock:)

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  by TjoeBaxter is Hot Yo on December 1st, 2009

• Bet you say that to all the dicks, umm, I mean detectives. (nasty nasty risque humor)

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  by Eclipse sleeping by moonlight on December 3rd, 2009

• I like a man who takes risks:):)

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  by TjoeBaxter is Hot Yo on December 5th, 2009

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• Thanks NICK +

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  by Universe Of Life on November 22nd, 2009

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• A good answer ... Many thanks Moongrim +

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  by Universe Of Life on November 23rd, 2009

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• The reason I asked ...
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  Some people are OK with death by war ... yet oppose capital punishment of a murderer.
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  Thank you +

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  by Universe Of Life on November 22nd, 2009

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