by technios on November 14th, 2009

technios

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I read in the paper that scientists are debating whether or not they have found water on the moon. Should Nasa have record of the amount of fuel burned leaving the moon(which creates h20) and how did the fuel ignite without oxygen?

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  • by Glenn Blaylock on November 14th, 2009

    Glenn Blaylock

    The amount of water created by the Apollo landers would have been insignificant with respect to the Moon's surface. I very strongly doubt that we would be able to detect it except right around the lunar landing sites.

    As for how the fuel was ignited without oxygen, rockets, by definition, carry their oxidizer with them. That is the difference between a rocket and the jet. Jets require are from which it gets oxygen to burn their fuels. Rockets carry the oxidizer along with the fuel.

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  • by iwnit on November 15th, 2009

    iwnit

    It looks like we were talking about buckets of water in a small, random area of the moon. The Apollo missions could not explain this.


    1) "Solar radiation would normally strip any free water or water ice from the lunar surface, splitting it into its constituent elements, hydrogen and oxygen, which then escape to space. However, because of the only very slight axial tilt of the Moon's spin axis to the ecliptic plane (1.5 °), some deep craters near the poles never receive any sunlight, and are permanently shadowed (see, for example, Shackleton crater). The temperature in these regions never rises above about 100 K (about −170 ° Celsius), and any water that eventually ended up in these craters could remain frozen and stable for extremely long periods of time — perhaps billions of years, depending on the stability of the orientation of the Moon's axis. The quantities (if any) and concentrations of this water ice are at present unknown, but it has been suggested that, at the south pole at least, any lunar ice is more likely to exist as small grains widely dispersed in the regolith rather than as thick deposits."
    Source and further information:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_water


    2) "Ultimately, that data may tell us very significant things about the status and behavior of the water. Papers that argued for lunar water had suggested different explanations for the origin of that water, such as cometary delivery and capture of the solar wind. They also hinted that there might be an active cycling of the water, driven by the changes in light that accompany the long solar day. The new data, should they contain chemicals typical of comets, could help inform the debate over what's happening on the moon.

    In any case, it's important to emphasize the mental U-turn the scientific community has to make here. For decades following the Apollo missions, scientists were operating based on the evidence returned from the Moon, which suggested a completely dry environment. The three papers that first suggested a revision to those conclusions were only published in September, and LCROSS data was only obtained in October. It will undoubtedly take a while for the full implications of these findings to sink in."
    Source and further information:
    http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/11/nasa-announces-significant-quantities-of-water-on-the-moon.ars


    3) Some information about the Apollo fuel system:

    "The lunar module descent engine burns a liquid fuel made of Aerozine 50, a 50/50 mixture of hydrazine and unsymmetric dimethyl hydrazine, and the oxidizer nitrogen tetroxide. These propellants are storable and ignite on contact. The engine is restartable and can be controlled with a throttle. This type of propulsion allows astronauts the ability to control their descent and to "hover" over the surface and change landing sites as needed. The amount of hypergolic fuel required for the vehicle that lifted the Apollo astronauts off the Moon was so little that it fit in a corner of the vehicle and the fuel tank could have served as a chair.
    Hypergolic propellants are fuels and oxidizers which ignite spontaneously on contact with each other and require no ignition source. The easy start and restart capability of hypergolics make them ideal for spacecraft maneuvering systems. Also, since hypergolics remain liquid at normal temperatures, they do not pose the storage problems of cryogenic propellants, such as liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. Hypergolics are highly toxic and must be handled with extreme care. The lunar ascent vehicle requires 785 kg of propellants to be transported to the lunar surface, including 214 kg Aerozine and 571 kg of dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4). A liquid hypergolic fuel is the principle behind the rocket's attitude correction motors where the mixing of two liquids produce spontaneous combustion and a jet of gases."

    "Liquid hydrazine (N2H4) and dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4). The two chemicals ignite on contact to release very large amounts of energy as heat:

    2 N2H4(liq) + N2O4 (g) → 3 N2 (g) + 4 H2O(g) + heat"

    "Rocket propellants are the fuels and the oxidizers carried by the rocket for propulsion. The fuel unsymmetric dimethylhydrazine (UDMH) reacts with the oxidizer dinitrogen tetroxide in the descent engine. When the two lightweight liquids react they produce the gaseous products nitrogen, water vapor and carbon dioxide according to the equation:

    (CH3)2NNH2 (l) + N2O4 (g) → 3 N2 (g) + 4 H2O(g) + 2 CO2(g)."
    Source and further information:
    http://www.glencoe.com/sec/science/chemistry/mc/pow/chapter14.shtml

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